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Mynxee
Veto. Veto Corp
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Posted - 2011.02.23 02:59:00 -
[211]
I supported this thread back in post #67, but a few more words given its several months down the road and I have a much better understanding of what will and won't get responses from the game designers when it comes to proposals...
Given what I've learned about the process in CSM5, I'd say you'd be better off focusing more a proposal calling for PvP of some kind in stations and less on the specifics of how that should be implemented. Since none of us have any clear idea what CCP is planning for Incarna into the second and third iteration, nor what their limitations are technically or otherwise for WHAT they are willing to implement, spending a lot of time detailing implementation mechanics is largely a waste of time.
What they want is for players to propose an idea expressed as a solution to a problem. High level implementation ideas to help clarify both the problem and how it might be solved are okay. Numbers and percentages and well...game design, there I said it...no. As CCP has stated to CSM time and again, game DESIGN is their job to figure out. They just want your ideas for big-picture solutions to problems that you have identified.
THAT is the way any proposal from AH will have the best chance of being looked at seriously by CCP when CSM submits them. Detailed implementation mechanics--especially for ideas that are feature-level in scope--just make their eyes glaze over most of the time because 99.99% of the time, the details just won't work for a variety of reasons (game balance, other plans you don't know about, etc.).
That said, I support any proposal that puts more impetus behind the message that we want PvP of some kind in Incarna.
Chair, CSM5
CSM6 Page on Facebook--keep up with all candidates in one place! |
Ba'lur Rorrot
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Posted - 2011.02.23 03:04:00 -
[212]
you realize that buy the fluff were only immortal in a pod. killing out side of a pod would be real death(no neural snapshot no sending of data) and that would case so much rage quit because of station gank that eve would die. also if you want eve FPS than push for dust.
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Dunkler Imperator
N.F.H.P. Fatal Ascension
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Posted - 2011.02.23 03:51:00 -
[213]
Edited by: Dunkler Imperator on 23/02/2011 03:54:10 Edited by: Dunkler Imperator on 23/02/2011 03:53:40 I read some where in the lore that pop pilots have Security forces to do their dirty work. What about being able to hire Dust players ? They follow u around protect you in Stations/Kill anything u don't like.
A few ideas/conditions for this to work.
1. dust players get paid and have an economic intensive.
2. The price is market driven I.E there are going to be 10 pod pilots to every dust player right so supply/demand.
3. The dust players would be paid per every 10 mins. So i can't just hire some1 and bore the crap out them doing nothing.
4. got to be able to talk let them know what's going on (I.E I've got a bounty and i want u guys to protect me.)
5. The more the better. Hiring more than one dust player totally allowed but the cost goes up *2 for each one.( i dunno but seems weird some guy could if he wanted buy 200 dust players for a few mins and have a gun fight with concord/kill Evey one in sight.)
6. perhaps you can see the stat's of players and they can choose their rates. So i can get a crappy player for cheap or a really skilled one for the big bucks.
Problems.
1. dust players might find this boring and completely break the feature.
2. How will The pod pilots let the dust players know who to kill and not to kill? Some sorta lock/broadcast thing?
3. Would pod pilots be able to join in the fight?( i sure hope so)
4.How do the dust players get all the way around the universe. Would they use generic bodies or only be able to work in certain stations.
5. would be a huge isk sink.( not sure if this is even a problem)
edit for Stuff
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Nott Hunter
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Posted - 2011.02.24 10:16:00 -
[214]
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Sahmul
The Grimreapers.
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Posted - 2011.02.24 12:06:00 -
[215]
I support the concept of ganking in stations to maintain continuity with the rest of the 'verse.
That said I think there are 2 major issues that would need to be addressed to make it a viable proposition:
1. Latency: Not everybody lives on top of the cluster, therefore whatever system is adopted needs to account for differing pings. Nothing would be more disheartening than to be walking down a corridor only to have your image stutter and finding your cooling corpse on the floor 100 metres behind where you thought you were, never even having seen your attacker.
2. Cost: By which I mean that a potential ganker will need to put serious effort into setting up their kill, and not just log on a throwaway alt to cut some random stranger "for the lulz".
Ambulate Safe! o7
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FinnAgain Zero
Roving Guns Inc. RAZOR Alliance
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Posted - 2011.02.24 12:23:00 -
[216]
Yeah, I've got no problem with those sort of mechanics. I don't think station PvP should be twitch gaming or that it should be a simple matter to gank someone who's taken basic precautions. ------------------------------------------------
Hohohoho, Mister Finn, you're going to be Mister Finnagain! |
Whezker
The Scope
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Posted - 2011.02.24 15:11:00 -
[217]
Full Support!
I like to say that what I don't like to see is something like FPS. I like to use as possible the same mechanics as flying: Target enemy and start figthing.
Could be nice to click on corners and walls to get cover.
Another plus could be to hire some bodyguards, so you can go through a low sec station with protection. These bodyguards act like CONCORD cops.
Could be nice ywo ways of shootng, one normal that alarms everybody and one more "sneaky" to stealth assassins. (Need skills of course)
In high sec, it will be safe due to guards. In low sec.....well, its low sec right? Only for hard guys. Hire some protection if you are afraid. -Mess with the bestà àdie like the rest |
Red Raider
Caldari Caldari Provisions
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Posted - 2011.02.24 19:02:00 -
[218]
So as a balancing mechanic to ganking in stations will people who clearly disobey the law be denied docking privileges? Maybe you will be denied weapons first, then any kind of body armor, and finally docking privileges or being confined to your cabin? Seems to me, from reading the lore, that only the seedier places in the universe even allow people to carry weapons on stations anyways. Maybe there will finally be a reason to have a positive security standing other than a number next to your picture? Maybe you would need a higher security standing to even leave your cabin with a weapon perhaps? Even high security area's that deny access to people without the proper standing?
You want to be an assassin go right ahead but it shouldn't be a one sided free for all either.
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Dr Ogres
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Posted - 2011.02.24 19:38:00 -
[219]
I like this quite a lot.
I think a lot of it should come down to the UI though, no names of toons floating over your heads to point you out from a crowd of NPC's etc.
that alone would solve a mess of easy assassination issues. if you had to absolutely KNOW what your target looked like? otherwise you go and shoot some random NPC and station security does what it does best...
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FinnAgain Zero
Roving Guns Inc. RAZOR Alliance
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Posted - 2011.02.25 01:00:00 -
[220]
That's actually a really interesting point... I suppose it'll depend, too, on how they sort out WiS. I'm thinking that names floating over our heads would be cheesy and imersion breaking, but it's probably what they'll do. ------------------------------------------------
Hohohoho, Mister Finn, you're going to be Mister Finnagain! |
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Danika Princip
Freelance Economics Astrological resources Tactical Narcotics Team
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Posted - 2011.02.25 04:25:00 -
[221]
Supported. What fun is walking in stations if I can't shoot the guy I'd be shooting outside?
Jita would be great fun with this!
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FinnAgain Zero
Roving Guns Inc. RAZOR Alliance
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Posted - 2011.02.25 09:46:00 -
[222]
Originally by: Danika Princip Supported. What fun is walking in stations if I can't shoot the guy I'd be shooting outside?
Doesn't really make sense, does it? In the "Definitive SciFi Simulator" you've been brawling with someone for weeks, maybe even months or years. You've lost/killed billions of ISK in assets and collected many frozen corpses. But once they're standing on a station's deck instead of in a pod, all of a sudden you can't even poke them in the eye. ------------------------------------------------
Hohohoho, Mister Finn, you're going to be Mister Finnagain! |
Centri Sixx
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Posted - 2011.02.25 10:08:00 -
[223]
Look, some features can't handle PvP disruption. There's thematic concerns, and there's practical use. If it's possible to disrupt people to the point of causing them to lose millions of ISK or more, people will just not use the feature. Especially when the feature is optional or social.
Chat and social areas are already vulnerable to griefing. I have no doubt we'll see all the trolls of EVE on Incarna launch picking up chairs over their heads and looming naked over you disrupting all your conversations. Giving those same trolls the power to kill random people is going to limit Incarna to a very few stations and destroy it as a means of socialization.
It's honestly like the EVE population doesn't learn this. How many areas or types of content have to remain barren before they do?
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FinnAgain Zero
Roving Guns Inc. RAZOR Alliance
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Posted - 2011.02.25 20:50:00 -
[224]
Originally by: Centri Sixx Look, some features can't handle PvP disruption.
Not in a PvP game, no.
Originally by: Centri Sixx If it's possible to disrupt people to the point of causing them to lose millions of ISK or more, people will just not use the feature.
Think about what you're saying. Seriously. Then look at suicide ganking, Hulkageddon, faction/deadspace/officer fit mission runners being targeted, lowsec PvP, null PvP, wormhole PvP...
Originally by: Centri Sixx a means of socialization.
You have chat channels. If you want to talk to someone without interruption, use them.
------------------------------------------------
Hohohoho, Mister Finn, you're going to be Mister Finnagain! |
Shoopa Whoopa
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Posted - 2011.02.25 22:21:00 -
[225]
Edited by: Shoopa Whoopa on 25/02/2011 22:21:18 Problem as far as I can tell is this:
If you die outside your pod you're biomass. DEAD. FOREVER.
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Whezker
Gallente The Scope
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Posted - 2011.02.25 23:47:00 -
[226]
Originally by: Shoopa Whoopa Edited by: Shoopa Whoopa on 25/02/2011 22:21:18 Problem as far as I can tell is this:
If you die outside your pod you're biomass. DEAD. FOREVER.
is not the WIFI invented? -Mess with the bestà àdie like the rest |
Ching Mortao
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Posted - 2011.02.26 00:00:00 -
[227]
Edited by: Ching Mortao on 26/02/2011 00:01:24 Dont know if anyone has said this already but, You could always hire npc or player security to gaurd your hangar or while you walk around the station checking markets and whatever else you guys do, but you should force someone to get out of your ship/pod to look at the market in hangar on a computer instead of sitting in your ship.
My writing skills are horrible, so if anything seems weird let me know.
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FinnAgain Zero
Roving Guns Inc. RAZOR Alliance
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Posted - 2011.02.26 05:51:00 -
[228]
Originally by: Ching Mortao you should force someone to get out of your ship/pod to look at the market in hangar on a computer instead of sitting in your ship.
I don't like this idea. Your hangar has always been safe space and it should remain so. And WiS shouldn't be mandatory and a time sink to engage in activities that were quick and easy before. That doesn't add anything. ------------------------------------------------
Hohohoho, Mister Finn, you're going to be Mister Finnagain! |
Spirulina Laxissima
TotalControl Inc.
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Posted - 2011.02.27 15:33:00 -
[229]
OK, I thought this over and have decided that I do support this after all.
Game impacting content as opposed to just another shopping mall.
Maybe the ability to run an operation to shut down the station's defenses for a brief time. Something that should require a large team to infiltrate multiple security-sectors and hack the gibson, to accomplish. Giving their corp-mates waiting outside in their ships just enough time to do one heinous crime to somebody near the station. Or allowing them to disrupt the NPC-convoy schedule until CONCORD-support arrives. (and no insta-warping here) Maybe other NPC's in the system could then try to hire other players to fend off the culprits until the cavalry arrives.
Meanwhile, in the station, NPC's would hire anyone to storm the defense-centers, call on the militia, hand out weapons, etc.
-Just brainstorming here. There are plenty of carebears out there that would be willing to partake in such a limited PVP, especially if system-wide trading is affected. - - - This signature intentionally left both short and blank. - - -
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Spirulina Laxissima
Minmatar TotalControl Inc.
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Posted - 2011.02.27 15:51:00 -
[230]
Edited by: Spirulina Laxissima on 27/02/2011 15:55:59 Oh, and think of how this could affect mission running!
ñ fly out to the deadspace complex ñ kill all the rats in the area ñ actually board Kruul's Pleasure Hub (TM) ñ run through a maze of corridors ñ fight your way past the body guards ñ spend minutes trying to convince the Damsel to flee with you ñ eventually just knock her out & carry her back to the ship ñ free some Amarr prostitutes on the way ñ undock & fight the reinforcements ñ warp back home & drop off that useless tramp ñ party with the hookers
EDIT: Come to think of it, this could also be played more along infiltrating the hub Bond-style, fighting Kruul inside, with an awesome getaway scene at the end...
And then there's the furrier-mission (something nightmarish along AvP-lines, but way cuter)... - - - This signature intentionally left both short and blank. - - -
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FinnAgain Zero
Roving Guns Inc. RAZOR Alliance
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Posted - 2011.02.27 18:31:00 -
[231]
Heh, see? A whole lot of potential content is opened up once we leave Space Barbie behind and decide that Incarna should be more than Second Space Life. ------------------------------------------------
Hohohoho, Mister Finn, you're going to be Mister Finnagain! |
Nonplus Ultra
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Posted - 2011.02.28 01:10:00 -
[232]
I support this.
However, I think a good implementation of this is beyond CCPs current capabilities (then again, what seems not to be?).
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FinnAgain Zero
Roving Guns Inc. RAZOR Alliance
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Posted - 2011.03.01 08:36:00 -
[233]
That may very well be. I think, however, that it's important to hold CCP's feet to the fire and let them know that we want EVE's core content to carry over to any new expansion, and not be waved off with Second Space Life where we get to play Space Barbie and accessorize. ------------------------------------------------
Hohohoho, Mister Finn, you're going to be Mister Finnagain! |
Vertisce Soritenshi
O.W.N. Corp OWN Alliance
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Posted - 2011.03.01 17:46:00 -
[234]
I completely disagree...on both of your posts. Not sure why this topic needed two...and from the same person I might add. Walking in stations is not meant to be PvP of any kind. Nor should it be. It is simply a refinement of what we already have with a few tweaks and perks. If you wanna kill someone while walking around then wait for DUST to release. NO BOOBIES LEFT BEHIND! |
FinnAgain Zero
Roving Guns Inc. RAZOR Alliance
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Posted - 2011.03.01 20:27:00 -
[235]
Edited by: FinnAgain Zero on 01/03/2011 20:27:39 Rather poor trolling, and obvious I might add. As already pointed out something like a half dozen times, the chair of the CSM suggested that I start a second, "elevator proposal" thread that didn't focus on mechanics.
Thanks for the free bump though. ------------------------------------------------
Hohohoho, Mister Finn, you're going to be Mister Finnagain! |
Roland Schlosser
Abyssal Heavy Industries Narwhals Ate My Duck
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Posted - 2011.03.02 20:06:00 -
[236]
Edited by: Roland Schlosser on 02/03/2011 20:06:36 Supported!!! I agree with the OP on all points raised
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Zaphod Beeblebrox3
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Posted - 2011.03.03 07:35:00 -
[237]
Edited by: Zaphod Beeblebrox3 on 03/03/2011 07:34:53 As what some might call a carebear, I support FinnAgain Zero's vision whole-heartedly (I wish I could quote all the highlights). Nothing annoys me more about this game than that there are highsec sanctuaries for those that wish to cause havoc in highsec. CCP should allow an end-run around the protections that Concord affords those who prey on the weak in high sec. An I think the in-station environment is the best forum for this. Allow the noobs to get their revenge there if no where else. If CCP wont apply equal rules to all space in eve, the lest they could do is offer an alternate forum for disputes, especially in high sec where their rules do more to protect the villians that disrupt society than those that participate in it. Never has any government taken the stance that concord and CCP has. It is highly unrealistic.
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FinnAgain Zero
Roving Guns Inc. RAZOR Alliance
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Posted - 2011.03.04 02:41:00 -
[238]
Now that's a use I hadn't considered. ------------------------------------------------
Hohohoho, Mister Finn, you're going to be Mister Finnagain! |
Soma Khan
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Posted - 2011.03.04 13:02:00 -
[239]
Originally by: Vertisce Soritenshi I completely disagree...on both of your posts. Not sure why this topic needed two...and from the same person I might add. Walking in stations is not meant to be PvP of any kind. Nor should it be. It is simply a refinement of what we already have with a few tweaks and perks. If you wanna kill someone while walking around then wait for DUST to release.
currently not meant for pvp of any kind, not with instanced barbie dress-up cq anyway. doesn't mean it has to stay that way __
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Jada Maroo
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Posted - 2011.03.26 23:14:00 -
[240]
If the Eve Forever video is to be believed - thread mission accomplished.
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