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Blane Xero
Amarr The Firestorm Cartel
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Posted - 2010.11.25 15:50:00 -
[31]
Originally by: John Mongrel I've talked with new players who left after 20days to 1+ month because they got griefed, suicide ganked and scammed.
And thus arises like a phoenix from the ashes, the real agenda of this thread.
Shows over folks, you can all go home now. _____________________________________ Haruhiist since December 2008
Originally by: CCP Fallout Been there. Done that. Need antibiotics.
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Dr Fighter
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Posted - 2010.11.25 15:51:00 -
[32]
so your annoyed that newbs dont have to be irritated like you were when you started and had to do your learning skills?
you got alot of growing up to do buddy, you aint no vet in life.
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Lillith Starfire
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Posted - 2010.11.25 15:57:00 -
[33]
Originally by: John Mongrel Hello all,
me whining.. grumpy old ..Player
Really encouraged me to read your big post. Not.
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John Mongrel
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Posted - 2010.11.25 15:57:00 -
[34]
Originally by: Dr Fighter so your annoyed that newbs dont have to be irritated like you were when you started and had to do your learning skills?
you got alot of growing up to do buddy, you aint no vet in life.
No it's really more about choices.
I made some that made my character slower/faster to some degree, I want all new players to experience this aswell. All those happy about the new changes are really just people who are happy that their skill plans now got a lot easier as they don't have to think about training a higher learning skill to train faster.
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hattifnatt
North Eastern Swat Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2010.11.25 16:01:00 -
[35]
When I started playing there was only basic learning. OP has played with the unfair advantage of advanced learning skills from the start. this makes me MAD~~ 57m SP scrubs like OP can go DIAF like all the other newbs
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John Mongrel
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Posted - 2010.11.25 16:05:00 -
[36]
Originally by: hattifnatt When I started playing there was only basic learning. OP has played with the unfair advantage of advanced learning skills from the start. this makes me MAD~~ 57m SP scrubs like OP can go DIAF like all the other newbs
That is true. But the so did you from when I started. You even had the isk to buy those advanced learning skills thus making you have the adv. learning skills faster than me a reality. I'm not sure at what time CCP implemented adv. learning skills and how long you played without, but I'm sure I'd be _slightly_ mad at that aswell even though that wasn't as great a change as it is now.
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hattifnatt
North Eastern Swat Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2010.11.25 16:10:00 -
[37]
Originally by: John Mongrel
Originally by: hattifnatt When I started playing there was only basic learning. OP has played with the unfair advantage of advanced learning skills from the start. this makes me MAD~~ 57m SP scrubs like OP can go DIAF like all the other newbs
That is true. But the so did you from when I started. You even had the isk to buy those advanced learning skills thus making you have the adv. learning skills faster than me a reality. I'm not sure at what time CCP implemented adv. learning skills and how long you played without, but I'm sure I'd be _slightly_ mad at that aswell even though that wasn't as great a change as it is now.
No YOU had the unfair advantage! They should have added a cooldown between character creation and being able to train advanced learning skills.
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Blane Xero
Amarr The Firestorm Cartel
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Posted - 2010.11.25 16:10:00 -
[38]
Originally by: John Mongrel
Originally by: hattifnatt When I started playing there was only basic learning. OP has played with the unfair advantage of advanced learning skills from the start. this makes me MAD~~ 57m SP scrubs like OP can go DIAF like all the other newbs
That is true. But the so did you from when I started. You even had the isk to buy those advanced learning skills thus making you have the adv. learning skills faster than me a reality. I'm not sure at what time CCP implemented adv. learning skills and how long you played without, but I'm sure I'd be _slightly_ mad at that aswell even though that wasn't as great a change as it is now.
You're a raging hypocrite. That is all. _____________________________________ Haruhiist since December 2008
Originally by: CCP Fallout Been there. Done that. Need antibiotics.
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Larn Conner
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Posted - 2010.11.25 16:11:00 -
[39]
@John Mongrel
I agree with you completely.
I find myself wishing I could go back to SWG and keep reminding myself the game is no longer the game it use to be back in 2003.
There's nothing we can do about it, the devs have made up their mind and all we can do is suck it up and drive on or quit.
I think everyone can see that MMOs tend to skew towards simple game play to attract new players, and the vets are the ones left to deal with these choices.
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John Mongrel
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Posted - 2010.11.25 16:20:00 -
[40]
Originally by: Blane Xero
Originally by: John Mongrel
Originally by: hattifnatt When I started playing there was only basic learning. OP has played with the unfair advantage of advanced learning skills from the start. this makes me MAD~~ 57m SP scrubs like OP can go DIAF like all the other newbs
That is true. But the so did you from when I started. You even had the isk to buy those advanced learning skills thus making you have the adv. learning skills faster than me a reality. I'm not sure at what time CCP implemented adv. learning skills and how long you played without, but I'm sure I'd be _slightly_ mad at that aswell even though that wasn't as great a change as it is now.
You're a raging hypocrite. That is all.
No, I just can't make an opinion of something I didn't experience or now anything about. So my statement then is just rather stupid, I admit to that. But the two issues just can't be compared.
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Boinz
Caldari Muffin Munchers
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Posted - 2010.11.25 16:21:00 -
[41]
Eve doesnt automatically get dumbed down because of this, all they did is remove a really stupid part of the game that they themselves admitted to regretting.
It wont attract some idiot 12 year olds to the game now, they wont look at this game, overlook all the complex things like market, fitting ship, "normal" skill training, mathematical stuff ingame and 0.0 alliance warfare and say "HEY THIS GAME IS REALLY SIMPLE NOW BECAUSE I DONT HAVE TO TRAIN THESE STUPID LEARNING SKILLS THAT BOOSTED MY TRAINING SPEEDS"
I HATE THIS FORUM AAAARGH!!!
Originally by: Blane Xero
Sorry, what?
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Grimpak
Gallente The Whitehound Corporation
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Posted - 2010.11.25 16:27:00 -
[42]
I don't understand how removing pointless complexity is bad for us veterans.
unless you're a deranged bitter vet. ---
Quote: The more I know about humans, the more I love animals.
ain't that right. |
Gelanone
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Posted - 2010.11.25 16:31:00 -
[43]
The amount of stupidity in this thread is mindboggling :P
Entertaining to read though :)
Simply put, If you've had 1 single learning skill trained, you will have had an advantage compared to a noob.
From whatever day the skills are removed, you'll still have that advantage in pure SP gained, but you wont keep your advantage (except the implants until the noob can affort them)
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Grimpak
Gallente The Whitehound Corporation
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Posted - 2010.11.25 16:36:00 -
[44]
Originally by: Gelanone The amount of stupidity in this thread is mindboggling :P
Entertaining to read though :)
Simply put, If you've had 1 single learning skill trained, you will have had an advantage compared to a noob.
From whatever day the skills are removed, you'll still have that advantage in pure SP gained, but you wont keep your advantage (except the implants until the noob can affort them)
and the problem is.....? ---
Quote: The more I know about humans, the more I love animals.
ain't that right. |
Xero Cell
Gallente Rage Orbital Construction Associates Systematic-Chaos
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Posted - 2010.11.25 16:37:00 -
[45]
Originally by: Jennifer Starling We're all very sorry for you. Perhaps it's best for all of us if you ragequit and give me your stuff?
^I support this post.
OP: Please ragequit if you really are so butthurt by the new changes. They aren't really that bad. The simple fact is, new players need way more than a 1.6m sp boost. This game is 7 freaking years old, and there's thousands of players with 40-100 mill skill points. 1 mill sp is nothing compared to this. and by the time they even got to 40m, then the guy with 40m before now has 80m. So really, this helps new players a little bit, and doesnt hurt the old ones at all. Stop complaining, you can still remap and use really expensive implants, so it's not like everyones the same. +5's are quite expensive, so only vet's will be having those. (aside from PLEX sellers).
The bottom line is: Vet's will always be worlds away in SP. So why complain if the little 1mill sp guys get a little boost? Get over yourselves, you grumpy old timers. I'm only a 3 year vet myself, and I don't care at all that brand new players get a nice boost.
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Zeuth Proxy
Caldari Nomadic Asylum
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Posted - 2010.11.25 16:41:00 -
[46]
Can I get a TL:DR version or is it just to pointless to waste time on?
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Cletus Graeme
Caldari North Eastern Swat Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2010.11.25 16:49:00 -
[47]
Edited by: Cletus Graeme on 25/11/2010 16:54:36 Learning skills have always been a ******ed idea. This is the best xmas gift from CCP for a long (overdue) time. The EvE learning curve is steep and long enough that you shouldn't have to also train to learn faster - that's just stupid. Just because we had it worse when we joined years ago doesn't mean that players should continue to suffer this stupidity. The idea is to improve things over time afterall.
EDIT: Also having "choices" for the sake of having them is dumb. Choosing between being able to train stuff faster later or training it slower now is no fun so it's not a good choice to have to make. I'm all for giving people the chance to make choices but at least make the interesting ones...
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M Teresa
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Posted - 2010.11.25 16:51:00 -
[48]
Originally by: Zeuth Proxy Can I get a TL:DR version or is it just to pointless to waste time on?
No you cant, it wasted my time when I had to read it myself, to make me feel better, your time has to be wasted as well.
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Shadow Nebulae
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Posted - 2010.11.25 16:52:00 -
[49]
Originally by: John Mongrel
Originally by: Blane Xero
Originally by: John Mongrel
Originally by: hattifnatt When I started playing there was only basic learning. OP has played with the unfair advantage of advanced learning skills from the start. this makes me MAD~~ 57m SP scrubs like OP can go DIAF like all the other newbs
That is true. But the so did you from when I started. You even had the isk to buy those advanced learning skills thus making you have the adv. learning skills faster than me a reality. I'm not sure at what time CCP implemented adv. learning skills and how long you played without, but I'm sure I'd be _slightly_ mad at that aswell even though that wasn't as great a change as it is now.
You're a raging hypocrite. That is all.
No, I just can't make an opinion of something I didn't experience or now anything about. So my statement then is just rather stupid, I admit to that. But the two issues just can't be compared.
Dude.
Just S T F U !
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WarlockX
Amarr Free Trade Corp
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Posted - 2010.11.25 16:53:00 -
[50]
'94 Player logging in to say the OP is ----------------------------------------------- Free Trade Corp - Flash page
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Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
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Posted - 2010.11.25 17:01:00 -
[51]
Originally by: John Mongrel But what about the SP I could have earned with this full boost of my attributes from the start of character creation?
What about them? What about all those SP people poured into skills that were then changed; into skills that no longer mattered for the FOTM; into skills that no longer had any relevant for what they were doing; etc etc etc.
Quote: This is not fair by far.
Why not? More importantly, so what? The game evolves and changes. These changes will be unfair for some fair for others and beneficial for the rest. Suck it up. The next time it will be beneficial for you and not for that other guy.
Quote: This change also removes another benefit with Learning Skills. The possibility of catching up.
Catching up is irrelevant and learning skills make zero difference anyway.
The skill system in EVE has always made it possible to "catch up" in any meaningful sense of the word. The only thing that is somewhat hard to catch up with is total SPà but total SP is an entirely worthless measure ù it tells us nothing (except how costly it will be to get podded). And even here, learning skills don't particularly solve this irrelevant "catch up" problem, nor are/were they the only way to catch up.
it is a complete non-issue.
Quote: Stop ruining EVE Online and it's complexity CCP.
Having a "must learn or be a sucker" stop-block is not "complexity" ù it's just stupid. Removing stupidity does not ruin a game ù it improves it. ùùù ôIf you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡à you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.ö ù Karath Piki |
Crumplecorn
Gallente Eve Cluster Explorations
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Posted - 2010.11.25 17:03:00 -
[52]
You start off with more SP now. It is easier to make money in general now. It is much easier to make your first money and get your first ships now. There is more information available online, more helpful 'school' corps/alliances and no doubt many other things which make life better for noobs now than you or I had it.
But, as has been pointed out, the tradeoff is that they are only starting now. And being in the game longer is the second biggest advantage you can have in this game, next to being smart.
And for the sort would actually leave the game over the learning skills, they haven't exactly got that number 1 advantage on their side either. -
I wish I was a three foot tall doll with a watering can and heterochromatic eyes |
Draconyx
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Posted - 2010.11.25 17:14:00 -
[53]
This will allow a easier time for making alts as you have the ISK to support them.
But I do wonder how many newbies will purchase ships they can't afford and end up broke. The learning skills forced new players into smaller ships making there losses not so painful, but now....
I have admit when they allowed you to redistribute your stats it really did kill any racial choices and made the learning skills pretty much pointless.
Good and bad I guess. Does it make it easier ? Only in the extent that you no longer have to think about what learning skill to train first. Instead now you have to learn about all those others skills right out of the gate.
IN the long run getting rid of learning skills and the ability to redistribute skills is probably a good thing.
Quicker into the game and quicker to make a mistake you will regret later on.
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Kelduum Revaan
Eve University Ivy League
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Posted - 2010.11.25 17:32:00 -
[54]
Just throwing my 0.02ISK in here. As the CEO of the #1 training corp, I see thousands of noobs a year, so should be able to comment on the changes coming.
The OP has made the same mistake many others do:
SP should not to be confused with Knowledge and Experience.
Knowledge and Experience are what help you play EVE, and what so many take for granted. Its what tells you that that gate is probably going to be camped, and that your ship can destroy your opponent before they can destroy you.
Skill Points are (above all else) flexibility.
That all, nothing more. It gives you the ability to fly other shinier stuff and fit shinier weapons, run bigger corps, bigger fleets and so on. Yes, they give you some significant bonuses to how you can fit things, but knowing how to fit them well is still paramount.
Take any real noob, give them a dread or something they don't know how to fly and you can bet they will lose it to gate-guns in losec or something equally stupid.
SP gives you the ability to use things, not the knowledge to do so effectively. _____
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Aphser
Amarr Adhocracy Incorporated
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Posted - 2010.11.25 17:41:00 -
[55]
*insert "EVE is dying, dude" comment*
*insert "What do you expect, typical CCP decision" comment*
*stopping to care much about a game that becomes less and less interesting*
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Monte Shill
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Posted - 2010.11.25 17:51:00 -
[56]
Originally by: John Mongrel No it's really more about choices.
I made some that made my character slower/faster to some degree, I want all new players to experience this aswell. All those happy about the new changes are really just people who are happy that their skill plans now got a lot easier as they don't have to think about training a higher learning skill to train faster.
And you forget, choices trickle down. CCP at the top layed the foundation of the game through their choice of the slow progression skill system, its the players choice if they want to spend money on WoW and instant gratification or EVE's slow style payout. Which game does CCP want the players to spend their money and not get bored in the process? So yeah, its a huge choice for CCP to change their game and in the long term its a good one!
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ArmyOfMe
Pastry Productions Inc. Aesir Empire
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Posted - 2010.11.26 07:54:00 -
[57]
so your char is basicly an 07, your not even close to being able to call yourself a vet. Now get out please.
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Klatho Cron
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Posted - 2010.11.26 08:21:00 -
[58]
Youre right op. Everyone else is just too stupid to understand. Its sad i know, but face it: The vast majority of people are unbelievably dumb. Thats why todays charts are todays charts, people fear terrorists or eve online removes learnings..
You cant talk to them. They wont get it. Not even because they dont want to. They simply cant comprehend it. I know it feels like youre kind of paralyzed but they wont get you, no matter what you try.
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Alara IonStorm
Agent-Orange Nabaal Syndicate
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Posted - 2010.11.26 08:28:00 -
[59]
Originally by: M Teresa
Originally by: Zeuth Proxy Can I get a TL:DR version or is it just to pointless to waste time on?
No you cant, it wasted my time when I had to read it myself, to make me feel better, your time has to be wasted as well.
-- I am now on a Crusade to Fix the Omen!
For Great Justice!
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Yuki Kulotsuki
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Posted - 2010.11.26 08:33:00 -
[60]
Wait a tic, what happened to SP totals don't matter, catching up isn't important because you can specialize and all that mumbo jumbo?
Originally by: CCP Lemur THIS IS GOD: ... IF YOU HAVE ANY MORE REQUESTS I'M AVAILABLE SUNDAY FROM 10:30 TO 12:00 TO RECEIVE YOUR PRAYERS.
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