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Brakur Ualkin
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Posted - 2010.11.25 16:11:00 -
[1]
Back in the old days the character creator was sophisticated and gave you real control over your character attributes and starting skills.
The second time I rolled a character I flew (and lost) a cruiser on my first day!
Taking away these options was a bad change, and so is the removal of the 2x bonus and learning skills.
I only train learning skills on about half my characters (I use many unconventionally) but they represented a genuine choice and trade-off in a game that is rapidly being reduced to "point your ship at something and watch it blow up".
Introducing shinier graphics doesn't make up for removing genuine complexity.
What's next putting an end to all the nerf/buff threads by giving all four races identical ship stats?
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DarkXale
Gallente
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Posted - 2010.11.25 16:14:00 -
[2]
 Originally by: Brakur Ualkin
What's next putting an end to all the nerf/buff threads by giving all four races identical ship stats?
Because that is comparable.
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Feligast
Minmatar
Intentionally Destructive
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Posted - 2010.11.25 16:17:00 -
[3]
Originally by: Brakur Ualkin
Back in the old days herp derp
Only thing missing is telling CCP to get off your lawn.
HTFU
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Brakur Ualkin
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Posted - 2010.11.25 16:20:00 -
[4]
Removing all differences between racial ships isn't much more of a change than removing all differences between racial character, bloodlines and starting attributes.
Characters used to be genuinely different (and locked into those differences forever).
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Zhim'Fufu
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Posted - 2010.11.25 16:21:00 -
[5]
Originally by: Brakur Ualkin
Introducing shinier graphics doesn't make up for removing genuine complexity.
It was pointless complexity.
Good Riddance.
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Terminal Insanity
Minmatar
Foundation
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Posted - 2010.11.25 16:24:00 -
[6]
Originally by: Brakur Ualkin
Back in the old days the character creator was sophisticated and gave you real control over your character attributes and starting skills.
The second time I rolled a character I flew (and lost) a cruiser on my first day!
Taking away these options was a bad change, and so is the removal of the 2x bonus and learning skills.
I only train learning skills on about half my characters (I use many unconventionally) but they represented a genuine choice and trade-off in a game that is rapidly being reduced to "point your ship at something and watch it blow up".
Introducing shinier graphics doesn't make up for removing genuine complexity.
What's next putting an end to all the nerf/buff threads by giving all four races identical ship stats?
the old character creator was as sophisticated as picking caldari achura.
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hattifnatt
North Eastern Swat
Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2010.11.25 16:28:00 -
[7]
9 our of 10 races were wrong in the old character creator, so not really.
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Doctor Ungabungas
Caldari
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
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Posted - 2010.11.25 16:37:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Feligast
Originally by: Brakur Ualkin
Back in the old days herp derp
Only thing missing is telling CCP to get off your lawn.
HTFU
The worst part is that he talks about the 1.6 mill SP bonus as if it's been here the whole time.
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Zeuth Proxy
Caldari
Nomadic Asylum
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Posted - 2010.11.25 16:38:00 -
[9]
Edited by: Zeuth Proxy on 25/11/2010 16:38:57
Learning skills where added awile after release. So in a sense it was dumbed down then they made it complex now it back being where it started.
Learning skills and starting attribute distribution was a horrible horrible design flaw when it comes to new player development. The only benifit those 2 had was towards alt chars since the person already knew enough about the game to min/max attributes and be able to shelf that char for a month or 2 to train learning skills.
From a new player standpoint knowing very little about the long term effect of attributes and how it can harm your efficiency in the long run. Now this wasn't able to be corrected until remaps but even still EVE is complex enough it shouldn't start at creation. Learning skills from a new players standpoint is a major turn off and one that has probably driven off alot of players.
Ones who are smart enough to do some research would know learning skills where a good decision early on however it causes that person to pretty much do nothing for acouple weeks to a month training basic learning skills. Top that off with the low starting SP compared to the 800k makes the game damn near unplayable for the first couple days to week.
I flame CCP alot about what they do or don't do but honestly the last 2 major decisions they've made recently(NO Plex for Remap, and removal of learning skills) might actually instill what little faith i have left in this game.
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Grimpak
Gallente
The Whitehound Corporation
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Posted - 2010.11.25 16:39:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Zhim'Fufu
It was pointless complexity.
---
Quote:
The more I know about humans, the more I love animals.
ain't that right. |
Punker Adagear
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Posted - 2010.11.25 16:53:00 -
[11]
I have to admit i did liek the original character creation, being able to skill for industry, trade, combat etc, and keep it in line with the blood lines.
even the preset atrributes was good so that you could make it quickly..
i do miss it like that when i came to make an alt i was like "wheres it all gone" as i'd taken a break from the game.
it adds that bit of personal touch to the character imho
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Shadow Nebulae
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Posted - 2010.11.25 16:55:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Brakur Ualkin
Back in the old days the character creator was sophisticated and gave you real control over your character attributes and starting skills.
The second time I rolled a character I flew (and lost) a cruiser on my first day!
Taking away these options was a bad change, and so is the removal of the 2x bonus and learning skills.
I only train learning skills on about half my characters (I use many unconventionally) but they represented a genuine choice and trade-off in a game that is rapidly being reduced to "point your ship at something and watch it blow up".
Introducing shinier graphics doesn't make up for removing genuine complexity.
What's next putting an end to all the nerf/buff threads by giving all four races identical ship stats?
Back in days you couldn't remap or decide your attributes, the base attributes were fixed. So that's why for example everyone had caldari achura for science or miner character since it had high int+mem attributes.
That also was pretty ****ing idiotic 
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Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
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Posted - 2010.11.25 17:06:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Brakur Ualkin
Back in the old days the character creator was sophisticated and gave you real control over your character attributes and starting skills.
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
No. No it did not. It gave you next to zero control over what kind of crap was shoved down your throat. It forced you to make decisions that you did not understand.
Quote:
Taking away these options was a bad change, and so is the removal of the 2x bonus and learning skills.
Now, you do realise that you have more options and informed choice in the new system, and that with the removal of the bonus, you still learn faster than before, right?
ùùù
ôIf you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡à
you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.ö
ù Karath Piki |
Crumplecorn
Gallente
Eve Cluster Explorations
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Posted - 2010.11.25 17:15:00 -
[14]
Having new players make irreversible decisions that they didn't understand was stupid. Equal starting stats for everyone was a necessary fix.
And the complexity introduced by the learning skills wouldn't be a major loss, except that it turned out to be an excellent idiot filter.
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I wish I was a three foot tall doll with a watering can and heterochromatic eyes |
Slade Trillgon
Endless Possibilities Inc.
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Posted - 2010.11.25 17:32:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Crumplecorn
Having new players make irreversible decisions that they didn't understand was stupid. Equal starting stats for everyone was a necessary fix.
And the complexity introduced by the learning skills wouldn't be a major loss, except that it turned out to be an excellent idiot filter.
This. We need for idiots to stay around longer 
Slade
:Signature Temporarily Disabled: |
Max Cetera
Capital Researchs Inc.
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Posted - 2010.11.25 17:35:00 -
[16]
I HOPE CCP NEVER REMAKES THE CORPORATION INTERFACE AND NEVER CHANGES THE ROLE SYSTEM. IF THEY EVER DID THAT AFTER REMOVING LEARNINGS IT WOULD DUMB DOWN THE GAME SO MUCH THAT I'D GO BACK TO WOW TO GET SOME COMPLEXITY AGAIN.
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Lord Evangelian
Gallente
LEAP Corp
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Posted - 2010.11.25 17:40:00 -
[17]
They are not dumbing down the game. Learning skills where pointles complexity. Adapt or leave. Change is good!
The White Mantle | Inactive on Forum since 20:38 on Feb 9th 2009 |
Zeuth Proxy
Caldari
Nomadic Asylum
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Posted - 2010.11.25 17:42:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Max Cetera
I HOPE CCP NEVER REMAKES THE CORPORATION INTERFACE AND NEVER CHANGES THE ROLE SYSTEM. IF THEY EVER DID THAT AFTER REMOVING LEARNINGS IT WOULD DUMB DOWN THE GAME SO MUCH THAT I'D GO BACK TO WOW TO GET SOME COMPLEXITY AGAIN.
I hope that was sarcasm or you just have downs.
The corp mngmt/role system is f*cking horrible
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Crumplecorn
Gallente
Eve Cluster Explorations
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Posted - 2010.11.25 17:43:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Lord Evangelian
They are not dumbing down the game. Learning skills where pointles complexity. Adapt or leave. Change is good!
All complexity is pointless complexity. Simplicity is the aim of any well designed system.
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I wish I was a three foot tall doll with a watering can and heterochromatic eyes |
Nova Fox
Gallente
Novafox Shipyards
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Posted - 2010.11.25 17:48:00 -
[20]
Edited by: Nova Fox on 25/11/2010 17:49:33
Originally by: Shadow Nebulae
Originally by: Brakur Ualkin
Back in the old days the character creator was sophisticated and gave you real control over your character attributes and starting skills.
The second time I rolled a character I flew (and lost) a cruiser on my first day!
Taking away these options was a bad change, and so is the removal of the 2x bonus and learning skills.
I only train learning skills on about half my characters (I use many unconventionally) but they represented a genuine choice and trade-off in a game that is rapidly being reduced to "point your ship at something and watch it blow up".
Introducing shinier graphics doesn't make up for removing genuine complexity.
What's next putting an end to all the nerf/buff threads by giving all four races identical ship stats?
Back in days you couldn't remap or decide your attributes, the base attributes were fixed. So that's why for example everyone had caldari achura for science or miner character since it had high int+mem attributes.
That also was pretty ****ing idiotic
I can confirm i have an achura with still 3 charisma :P
Anyways complexity is a bad thing to have in game design
Depth on the other hand (nessecary enganging useful interesting and meaningful and preceived to be shallow complexity) is part of excellent game design.
Pre-order your Sisters of ≡v≡ Exploration ship today, Updated 1SEPT10
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Naibasak
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Posted - 2010.11.25 17:49:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Crumplecorn
All complexity is pointless complexity. Simplicity is the aim of any well designed system.
IÆm sorry, I think the opÆs being as much a troll as anyone else thinks here, but the one reason I play this game over all others is itÆs layered, well thought out and complex nature, if I wanted simplicity, I would be playing WoWà
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Florio
Miniature Giant Space Hamsters
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Posted - 2010.11.25 17:54:00 -
[22]
Removing learning skills is in no way dumbing down the game.
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Magron1
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Posted - 2010.11.25 17:56:00 -
[23]
I'm with you Brakur....I wont be renewing my subscription and im only sorry I paid so far in advance.
See how many ppl are still logging in in about a year..i thjink they blew it. There's dozens of games of the same crap form they're heading to.
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Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
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Posted - 2010.11.25 17:59:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Magron1
I'm with you Brakur....I wont be renewing my subscription and im only sorry I paid so far in advance.
Gimme your stuff. |
Magron1
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Posted - 2010.11.25 18:02:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Tippia
Originally by: Magron1
I'm with you Brakur....I wont be renewing my subscription and im only sorry I paid so far in advance.
Gimme your stuff.
Nope it's going to ppl i have reason to like.
That 'can i have ur stuff' **** is gonna be real thin when tbhere's 12,000 ppl/average logged on and it's not paying the overhead anymore.
I've heard ppl claim Eve will go forever, how could it end? Suicide, that's how it'll end. |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
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Posted - 2010.11.25 18:07:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Magron1
That 'can i have ur stuff' **** is gonna be real thin when tbhere's 12,000 ppl/average logged on and it's not paying the overhead anymore.
I've heard ppl claim Eve will go forever, how could it end? Suicide, that's how it'll end.
Probably. This is not it, though. People aren't going to mass-quit over a mass improvement. Quite the opposite. |
Shadow Nebulae
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Posted - 2010.11.25 18:11:00 -
[27]
Originally by: Magron1
Originally by: Tippia
Originally by: Magron1
I'm with you Brakur....I wont be renewing my subscription and im only sorry I paid so far in advance.
Gimme your stuff.
Nope it's going to ppl i have reason to like.
That 'can i have ur stuff' **** is gonna be real thin when tbhere's 12,000 ppl/average logged on and it's not paying the overhead anymore.
I've heard ppl claim Eve will go forever, how could it end? Suicide, that's how it'll end.
Your stuff?
Also, I'll bet on that we will break 100 000 in TQ by end of 2011.
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Max Cetera
Capital Researchs Inc.
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Posted - 2010.11.25 18:13:00 -
[28]
Originally by: Zeuth Proxy
Originally by: Max Cetera
I HOPE CCP NEVER REMAKES THE CORPORATION INTERFACE AND NEVER CHANGES THE ROLE SYSTEM. IF THEY EVER DID THAT AFTER REMOVING LEARNINGS IT WOULD DUMB DOWN THE GAME SO MUCH THAT I'D GO BACK TO WOW TO GET SOME COMPLEXITY AGAIN.
I hope that was sarcasm or you just have downs.
The corp mngmt/role system is f*cking horrible
I suggest you use reibmursed SP in "Sarcasm Detection 5", yours isn't fully functionnal yet
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Magron1
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Posted - 2010.11.25 18:13:00 -
[29]
Originally by: Tippia
Originally by: Magron1
That 'can i have ur stuff' **** is gonna be real thin when tbhere's 12,000 ppl/average logged on and it's not paying the overhead anymore.
I've heard ppl claim Eve will go forever, how could it end? Suicide, that's how it'll end.
Probably. This is not it, though. People aren't going to mass-quit over a mass improvement. Quite the opposite.
It's not just 'this one' it's the fact that 'this one' locks in their obvious future plans to dumb the game down into a cash cow FPS playing to t6he 12 dto 16 yr old markets. It's this one, the last one, the one before and the next one and the one after that.
I choose to get out early and not help them do this with my revenue.
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Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
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Posted - 2010.11.25 18:14:00 -
[30]
Originally by: Magron1
It's not just 'this one' it's the fact that 'this one' locks in their obvious future plans to dumb the game down
Except, of course, that it doesn't dumb the game down ù it adds variety and choice.
ùùù
ôIf you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡à
you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.ö
ù Karath Piki |
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