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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 24 post(s) |
Dregol
Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
13
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Posted - 2012.08.09 15:14:00 -
[121] - Quote
Damion Rayne wrote:CCP Sreegs wrote:Damion Rayne wrote:Brokers Clone wrote:CCP Sreegs wrote:If you are aware of a way for miners to mine AFK with no third party programs 24 hours a day without being at their machines and managing cargo then I'm all ears. Enter belt with uuber-tanked ship and some nice shiney drones Wait Watch rats spawn See drones kill rats... get bounty Wait Watch rats spawn See drones kill rats... get bounty Wait Watch rats spawn See drones kill rats... get bounty Wait Watch rats spawn See drones kill rats... get bounty etc...etc...etc... This Sreegs, you obviously don't play the game anymore mate. Except that he stated mining then used ratting as an example, which would certainly still be detected and fall into the same category. It's the same bloody thing! Let me give you an example, I park my hulk in a belt, target roids, put out some drones and practically go afk watching tv on net flix while only every so often switching clients to have my alt come pick up a load. The main account is for all intents, AFK..pretty sure the way I understand how you're handling things lately, you'd ban us from doing this to eventually. I mean come on...what's the exact details of this? What do you define as "Normal Game-play", because I'd like to know. I've been online for 12-13 hour sessions before, and I know other people have.
For those 12-13 hours you still have to be at your computer every so often to empty your cargo hold and haul the ore to a station/pos etc. Killing respawning NPCs 23/7 while not being at your computer is not the same thing.
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cheese monkey
Tribal Liberation Force Minmatar Republic
7
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Posted - 2012.08.09 15:14:00 -
[122] - Quote
Sreegs... Before you alienate your entire player/customer base i suggest you withdraw this and have a think a bit longer. The mere fact that u have edited it 3 times is negligence at best! Its ok to admit you were wrong and say sorry. If anything doing so would GAIN you some respect. |
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CCP Sreegs
C C P C C P Alliance
2021
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Posted - 2012.08.09 15:15:00 -
[123] - Quote
Damion Rayne wrote:CCP Sreegs wrote:Damion Rayne wrote:Brokers Clone wrote:CCP Sreegs wrote:If you are aware of a way for miners to mine AFK with no third party programs 24 hours a day without being at their machines and managing cargo then I'm all ears. Enter belt with uuber-tanked ship and some nice shiney drones Wait Watch rats spawn See drones kill rats... get bounty Wait Watch rats spawn See drones kill rats... get bounty Wait Watch rats spawn See drones kill rats... get bounty Wait Watch rats spawn See drones kill rats... get bounty etc...etc...etc... This Sreegs, you obviously don't play the game anymore mate. Except that he stated mining then used ratting as an example, which would certainly still be detected and fall into the same category. It's the same bloody thing! Let me give you an example, I park my hulk in a belt, target roids, put out some drones and practically go afk watching tv on net flix while only every so often switching clients to have my alt come pick up a load. The main account is for all intents, AFK..pretty sure the way I understand how you're handling things lately, you'd ban us from doing this to eventually. I mean come on...what's the exact details of this? What do you define as "Normal Game-play", because I'd like to know. I've been online for 12-13 hour sessions before, and I know other people have.
And how many times have you been banned for this? "Sreegs has juuust edged out Soundwave as my favourite dev." - Meita Way 2012 |
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Cifese
Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
4
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Posted - 2012.08.09 15:15:00 -
[124] - Quote
Damion Rayne wrote:Lucas Quaan wrote:Damion Rayne wrote:I run plexes in 0.0 when I was in Test and Dark Rising and you are now effectively telling me that running those plexs with a drone boat, and going afk, is against the rules? It's not and you are an idiot for thinking so. You're an idiot for thinking it's wrong, I've got a child to take care of. You're telling me I'm not allowed to put out sentry drones, run a single plex afk, move to the next plex and do it again? What kinda fascist control crap is this? Well since i can't be at the key's 100% of my play time now, and Sreegs will ban me or something, If I walk away for 10 minuets, suppose I just stop logging in unless I can be at the keyboard for 6 hours straight. I'm sure my wife and 2 month old will enjoy my lack of being able to walk away from the computer. Ya know, because Id' rather net have "administrative action" taken against my account for walkign away for an hour.
No, you are an idiot because you can't understand the original (updated) news post and the context.
There are complexes that continually spawn rats. They never end. There is no scanning down, no warping to a new site, no action required other than shooting said rats.
IF you enter this complex, drop sentry drones, assign remote reps to those drones, leave your computer for the entire day then repeat that action daily, you have been flagged by the system for this exploit.
Is that clear enough for you? |
War Kitten
Panda McLegion
987
|
Posted - 2012.08.09 15:17:00 -
[125] - Quote
Fatbear wrote: That aside, this is a monstrous example of poor developer posting and mismanagement of information. Created a s**t-storm over a limited bug/exploit, rattling the cages of plenty of innocent/uninvolved players. Far better option would've been to just fix the sodding problem and not panic every drone using high-seccer into a meltdown.
I have to disagree.
For one, CCP Sreegs isn't a developer.
Secondly, if innocent drone users are having meltdowns because they mis-read a news item, perhaps they should spend some of their AFK drone time learning how to read. Here's your sign... |
Damion Rayne
Lorentz Technology Group
109
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Posted - 2012.08.09 15:18:00 -
[126] - Quote
War Kitten wrote:Damion Rayne wrote:Lucas Quaan wrote:Damion Rayne wrote:I run plexes in 0.0 when I was in Test and Dark Rising and you are now effectively telling me that running those plexs with a drone boat, and going afk, is against the rules? It's not and you are an idiot for thinking so. You're an idiot for thinking it's wrong, I've got a child to take care of. You're telling me I'm not allowed to put out sentry drones, run a single plex afk, move to the next plex and do it again? What kinda fascist control crap is this? Well since i can't be at the key's 100% of my play time now, and Sreegs will ban me or something, If I walk away for 10 minuets, suppose I just stop logging in unless I can be at the keyboard for 6 hours straight. I'm sure my wife and 2 month old will enjoy my lack of being able to walk away from the computer. Ya know, because Id' rather net have "administrative action" taken against my account for walkign away for an hour. I would just like to have one thing clarified... Is this the character with which you go AFK on to do your plexing? Inquiring locator agents want to know...
I don't do afk plexing anymore, the last time I did was almost a year and a half ago when Dark was in TEST. Or however long ago it was, if you feel froggy, come to Vale. I've got plenty of guns and ammo with your name on it if you wanna be an internet badass and think I care. Teamwork.. Maturity.. Tactics.. www.tacticalgamer.com |
Neidrig
The United Republic of Eve
0
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Posted - 2012.08.09 15:19:00 -
[127] - Quote
Two interesting game mechanics might address the problem and make the game more fun.
First is random spawning super bosses. The most interesting would be a small sleeper or incursion level fleet. These can spawn anywhere. Anyone who is awake and paying attention can escape. Otherwise this roaming boss will just pod you and your little drones 2. For those who are awake and can scramble the appropriate response fleet they get the possibility of sleeper or incursion loot but only after a nasty and costly fight.
As it is incursions are too predictable and not sufficiently menacing. The same goes for sleepers. Where ever there are worm holes there should be the danger of something really dangerous coming in.
The second game mechanic is flying for Concord. I have always been disappointed that there are no Concord or DED agents. Unlike standard mission agents Concord missions would have a definite Game Policing function. The main twist is that these Concord actions would not be just AI based. In general this mechanism would give developers a dynamic interface where any game / player behavior anomalies could be addressed.
As it is Concord, criminal flags and the bounty system are no real threat and have no real teeth.
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Bagehi
Association of Commonwealth Enterprises Test Alliance Please Ignore
93
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Posted - 2012.08.09 15:23:00 -
[128] - Quote
If you check out the COSMOS complexes, they are old, old code. They do not de-spawn. Horribly farmed. Biggest problem with completing COSMOS for a normal player is actually being able to get the things you need before the farmers grab them. Players have complained for years about that. The upper level COSMOS are basically unusable at this point because of farmers. So, I'm happy Sreegs did this, even though it is a bandaid fix.
Honestly, I'm not sure why CCP doesn't yank them, then replace them with a more dynamic PVE experience.
When I saw the new and improved mining boats, I saw the massive ore hold of the Mackinaw, my immediate reaction was to start training a mack pilot to "basically AFK mine" on a laptop while I do other things. It isn't a 24/7 thing, sure, but it still feels like it boarders on cheating to me. |
EvilweaselSA
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
337
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Posted - 2012.08.09 15:25:00 -
[129] - Quote
CCP Sreegs wrote:Nobody ever said anything about passive income. Every example of passive income mentioned thus far has been designed purposely to be so. This was not. It becomes a security issue when it is egregious enough to be virtually identical to botting. The GM team is aware of this news item and the details and the game design team has committed to fixing the problem.
If you have some insight that I don't as to what is or isn't my team's responsibility however please feel free to clue me in because it seems to differ from that of my boss. There was no botting issue here. This was started by your algorithm thinking that someone was a bot, them challenging that, and the decision being made to decide they were a bot despite no botting software, macro software, game hacks, or the like. Instead of fixing the issue with the botting algorithm (suggested fix: if the client isn't sending server commands it's probably not botting because it's not doing anything), team security decided to take over running enforcement of edge cases where 100% legitimate game behavior allows for something the game designers decide is a bad idea.
There's no good reason for team security to be involved because they don't know what has/hasn't been decided in the past, they don't have layers of review to handle hard cases fairly (if something's a hard case, like 100% legitimate game behavior doing something unexpected you want several sets of eyes on it reviewing it independently, such as regular and senior GMs). Team Security should deal with stuff the GMs are incapable of handling: botting detection, RMT, hacks, and the like that does not involve 100% in-game behavior. Things involving pure in-game behavior is what the GM team is designed to handle and it's their job to handle.
As for the "designed/non-designed" thing (which is nonsense: half of EVE is about doing things that were not designed, from hotdrops to defensive SBUs), here's this:
Say I idle in a NC. system with the name "down with goons" and a bio saying all donations go to fighting goonswarm in some verifiable way, say by a public api (though I keep a percentage, making it personal income). Every so often people go "damn straight down with those goons" and send me money. Am I a bot? I'm just parked in space, cloaked. I suspect I would be, because I'm logged into game making money and the combination of the two would trigger your algorithm (since it clearly doesn't take into account failing to send any commands at all to the server).
Hell, I make passive income every day from simply holding various items that will appreciate in value: fortunately your algorithms don't detect that sort of thing or I might get banned for holding guidance systems as they steadily appreciate in value even if I'm unsubbed. |
DoLoc Two
Grim Determination Clockworks Inc. Nulli Tertius
0
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Posted - 2012.08.09 15:25:00 -
[130] - Quote
Quote:Protip for the future: if your computer is logged in 24 (or way more than a person can) hours a day making money in a way that is meant to be active and you're not in front of it you're probably doing something wrong
Mr. GM - Respectfully - BULL! You must live in a socialist world where everybody watches the big screen to see the blinky object move! This game has so many afk features it boggles the mind for anyone to try to control them. This can only be seen as an action to keep your programming job.
Ask your supervisor for an assignment that solves a progammatic error.
I'm going to deploy my t2 mining drones from my orca while I go back to sleeping/mining now. ROFL @ U |
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Skippermonkey
Tactical Knightmare
1261
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Posted - 2012.08.09 15:26:00 -
[131] - Quote
Well, this does seem an ass-backwards way of dealing with the situation CCP
Be sensible and remove these static sites
Make these plexes despawn
Give the rats a finite number of respawns
So basically, fix the game instead of calling out these players as a teacher would to school children
Dont expect players to play how you want them to in a sandbox My homeboys tried to warn me But that butt you got makes me so horny |
Fatbear
Starwinders The Unwilling.
5
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Posted - 2012.08.09 15:27:00 -
[132] - Quote
War Kitten wrote: Secondly, if innocent drone users are having meltdowns because they mis-read a news item, perhaps they should spend some of their AFK drone time learning how to read.
The original news article was incredibly ambiguous, as evidenced by the fact it's been edited NUMEROUS times.
I'll use a real world situation as an example of what's taken place here today. UK police (and probably others, but not relevant) use heat detection gear to pickup excessive heating and lighting in house attics to spot illegal cannabis farms. During the winter and snow, these houses stick out like a sore thumb because they're the only building in a ten mile radius that has no snow on their roof (due to the heating systems melting it).
The ORIGINAL unedited unclarified news post was akin to British Police releasing a news article saying "It has come to our attention that drug growers use heating and lighting a lot, which is easy to spot during the winter. Anyone found to use their central heating a lot during December to February may come under investigation".
Ambiguous/vague, borderline erroneous, and frankly panic-causing.
After numerous edits and clarification it is now possibly to see that SPECIFIC fixed cosmos sites (at least known of at present) are creating a UNIQUE set of circumstances that can lead to abuse, and said abuse is punishable. If the original post was as clear and precise as some of you seem to pretend (with all the "lots of people clearly don't have Reading 5 trolllololol" comments and the like), then it wouldn't have needed clarifying so much.
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CCP Sreegs
C C P C C P Alliance
2023
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Posted - 2012.08.09 15:28:00 -
[133] - Quote
cheese monkey wrote:Sreegs... Before you alienate your entire player/customer base i suggest you withdraw this and have a think a bit longer. The mere fact that u have edited it 3 times is negligence at best! Its ok to admit you were wrong and say sorry. If anything doing so would GAIN you some respect.
It was edited once because people misinterpreted my comments to mean that we were banning activity that we aren't. This seems to still be the case. There is a very specific situation which caused this detection which is essentially warping into a particular cosmos plex at downtime, dropping your sentry drones, applying reps to them then leaving your computer until the next downtime. This is possible because in that particular room the drones respawn.
This is going on 24 hours a day, 7 days a week. That is bad. If you haven't already heard from us then to date you haven't been doing it. However, there have been cases where people HAVE been doing this and complained that there was no announcement put out about it. Here is the announcement.
This potentially impacts more than the one COSMOS plex which is why the specific COSMOS plex was not mentioned in the OP. Were I to mention it then they would move to a new plex and we'd be dealing with the same rage from them because THIS IS A DIFFERENT PLEX. "Sreegs has juuust edged out Soundwave as my favourite dev." - Meita Way 2012 |
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War Kitten
Panda McLegion
987
|
Posted - 2012.08.09 15:30:00 -
[134] - Quote
Damion Rayne wrote: I don't do afk plexing anymore, the last time I did was almost a year and a half ago when Dark was in TEST. Or however long ago it was, if you feel froggy, come to Vale. I've got plenty of guns and ammo with your name on it if you wanna be an internet badass and think I care.
I see.
So this whole news item didn't apply to you in the slightest, yet you felt the irresistible urge to fly off the handle for several posts just for funsies?
umadbro!
Here's your sign... |
Octoven
Four Pillar Production Dragehund
9
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Posted - 2012.08.09 15:31:00 -
[135] - Quote
Alara IonStorm wrote:coolzero wrote: it does now at list in a limited way..... mack have 31000m3 ore hold.....this will still take some time to fill while you can go afk while ice mining.
CCP sanctioned AFKness with a CCP set maximum time limit. This is 24 hours, CCP doesn't want 24 hours nor in this way so they are saying you can't do it until they find a solution. This particular form of AFK play has been declared an exploit. If you have feeling on other CCP sanctioned AFK activities it has nothing to do with this declared exploit. Octoven wrote: Your point is valid; however, if they enforce that penalty on AFKing a complex then they must do the same with any other form of AFK actions which is just too much ******* monitoring IMHO they need to focus more on third party programs and fixing their own mechanics instead of saying, "we call party foul, we cant change ti yet but you arent allowed to use it till we do."
No they don't. All they need to moniter is a specific tactic that is used to keep the sentry drones undamaged in only a few of static complex's. Nothing else is needed for this particular exploit. As for calling foul but saying we can't fix it yet, that is the same for all exploits. The Wormhole neg tracking, POS Bowling, Ect.
True enough they DONT have to, but I mean if they are going to go out of the way to look for a specific afk action that fits a broad spectrum of pilots, it only stands to reason they would cover other forms of afk as well |
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CCP Sreegs
C C P C C P Alliance
2023
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Posted - 2012.08.09 15:33:00 -
[136] - Quote
Octoven wrote:Alara IonStorm wrote:coolzero wrote: it does now at list in a limited way..... mack have 31000m3 ore hold.....this will still take some time to fill while you can go afk while ice mining.
CCP sanctioned AFKness with a CCP set maximum time limit. This is 24 hours, CCP doesn't want 24 hours nor in this way so they are saying you can't do it until they find a solution. This particular form of AFK play has been declared an exploit. If you have feeling on other CCP sanctioned AFK activities it has nothing to do with this declared exploit. Octoven wrote: Your point is valid; however, if they enforce that penalty on AFKing a complex then they must do the same with any other form of AFK actions which is just too much ******* monitoring IMHO they need to focus more on third party programs and fixing their own mechanics instead of saying, "we call party foul, we cant change ti yet but you arent allowed to use it till we do."
No they don't. All they need to moniter is a specific tactic that is used to keep the sentry drones undamaged in only a few of static complex's. Nothing else is needed for this particular exploit. As for calling foul but saying we can't fix it yet, that is the same for all exploits. The Wormhole neg tracking, POS Bowling, Ect. True enough they DONT have to, but I mean if they are going to go out of the way to look for a specific afk action that fits a broad spectrum of pilots, it only stands to reason they would cover other forms of afk as well
We aren't looking for that action. We're looking for bots. In this case the behavior is similar and it is being abused 24 hours a day. Therefore, we are treating it the same. "Sreegs has juuust edged out Soundwave as my favourite dev." - Meita Way 2012 |
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Bubanni
ElitistOps Pandemic Legion
414
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Posted - 2012.08.09 15:35:00 -
[137] - Quote
CCP Sreegs wrote:cheese monkey wrote:Sreegs... Before you alienate your entire player/customer base i suggest you withdraw this and have a think a bit longer. The mere fact that u have edited it 3 times is negligence at best! Its ok to admit you were wrong and say sorry. If anything doing so would GAIN you some respect. It was edited once because people misinterpreted my comments to mean that we were banning activity that we aren't. This seems to still be the case. There is a very specific situation which caused this detection which is essentially warping into a particular cosmos plex at downtime, dropping your sentry drones, applying reps to them then leaving your computer until the next downtime. This is possible because in that particular room the drones respawn. This is going on 24 hours a day, 7 days a week. That is bad. If you haven't already heard from us then to date you haven't been doing it. However, there have been cases where people HAVE been doing this and complained that there was no announcement put out about it. Here is the announcement. This potentially impacts more than the one COSMOS plex which is why the specific COSMOS plex was not mentioned in the OP. Were I to mention it then they would move to a new plex and we'd be dealing with the same rage from them because THIS IS A DIFFERENT PLEX.
So what your saying is you havn't banned anyone for doing this yet? Because people have been doing this for years (very few of cause can do it because of the limited amount of these sites)
I think it's fine that CCP now decides this isn't okay anymore, and change the mechanics so it can't be done anymore, but as long as you don't ban anyone for using these simple game mechanics (drop drones, rep them, go afk)
You could simply make it so sentry drones got abandond or disconnected after 1 hour or so... that would fix the problem completly (and if people found a way around that, then they were cheating) Christmas wish list https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=134275 Module activation delay! https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1180934 |
Kazanir
Eighty Joule Brewery Goonswarm Federation
428
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Posted - 2012.08.09 15:36:00 -
[138] - Quote
Every single highsec COSMOS plex behaves in this way -- a static beacon with regularly-respawning rats so that various players can come through the beacon (and its attendant gates and rooms) and complete different missions depending on where they are in which COSMOS chains. If CCP wants this behavior to stop, then they need to make game design changes to every single one of these static beacons, which probably number in the dozens if not hundreds. (Lowsec and nullsec have such static beacons+rooms also.) |
Antihrist Pripravnik
Naglfar Rising
44
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Posted - 2012.08.09 15:37:00 -
[139] - Quote
CCP Sreegs wrote:cheese monkey wrote:Sreegs... Before you alienate your entire player/customer base i suggest you withdraw this and have a think a bit longer. The mere fact that u have edited it 3 times is negligence at best! Its ok to admit you were wrong and say sorry. If anything doing so would GAIN you some respect. It was edited once because people misinterpreted my comments to mean that we were banning activity that we aren't. This seems to still be the case. There is a very specific situation which caused this detection which is essentially warping into a particular cosmos plex at downtime, dropping your sentry drones, applying reps to them then leaving your computer until the next downtime. This is possible because in that particular room the drones respawn. This is going on 24 hours a day, 7 days a week. That is bad. If you haven't already heard from us then to date you haven't been doing it. However, there have been cases where people HAVE been doing this and complained that there was no announcement put out about it. Here is the announcement. This potentially impacts more than the one COSMOS plex which is why the specific COSMOS plex was not mentioned in the OP. Were I to mention it then they would move to a new plex and we'd be dealing with the same rage from them because THIS IS A DIFFERENT PLEX. This makes sense. Thank you for the explanation. You'll just have to understand community's outrage regarding this matter. It's a very delicate situation that opened some old wounds.
Best of luck in hunting down the bots. CCP Ytterbium: Yarrblblbgrlblbgrlblblblbblbgrlblblbgrblblyarrrrdrooooooolonthekeyboardlikealunatic |
EvilweaselSA
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
337
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Posted - 2012.08.09 15:37:00 -
[140] - Quote
CCP Sreegs wrote: It was edited once because people misinterpreted my comments to mean that we were banning activity that we aren't. This seems to still be the case. There is a very specific situation which caused this detection which is essentially warping into a particular cosmos plex at downtime, dropping your sentry drones, applying reps to them then leaving your computer until the next downtime. This is possible because in that particular room the drones respawn..
So warn the GMs, have them pay attention to that plex, and don't have the botting algorithm banning people for not-botting? This isn't botting, it's someone figuring out a spot where money rains down on you and standing in that spot. It's not botting, it shouldn't be considered botting, and if you need to get told "sorry we decided you can't stand on that spot" the GM team should be doing it.
This is being delt with by Team Security because of a false positive: this should be used as a case study of types of false positives and the situation handled normally. Hell, it might be a good idea to tweak the algorithm to say "hey this guy appears to be making purely passive income but without botting" and use that to alert the GM team - but it shouldn't be banning a notbot as a bot. |
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highonpop
Void.Tech Fatal Ascension
198
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Posted - 2012.08.09 15:37:00 -
[141] - Quote
CCP could just get rid on infinite respawns
TADA!
Problem solved
http://www.soundboard.com/sb/Very%20best%20of%20Makalu%20Zarya |
MezriDax
BlackWatch Industrial Group Intrepid Crossing
6
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Posted - 2012.08.09 15:38:00 -
[142] - Quote
Does this mean I can't go to the bathroom or get a drink while ice mining anymore? Do I gotta bring in my ship before I go potty? |
Zapson
The Companionship Test Alliance Please Ignore
0
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Posted - 2012.08.09 15:38:00 -
[143] - Quote
Pro Tip: We call it "meetings", we have them before we announce important things or make important decisions. Pro Tip: Bugs can be fixed by Developers, even if you are CCP and you have super large and complex cluster Pro Fact: You should be able to fix such problems, even from a financial standpoint, last time I checked you weren't bankrupt, because some investors saved you.
WE players do not complain about something being bannable because it's "exploity", we are feared because CCP is going down a way, where hard bugged mechanics are reasons for bans. It's like banning people in a public test alpha for encountering and using broken mechanics.
You are constantly enraging the community instead of searching any form of dialogue. I think every EVE player would be very happy to participate in discussions about new PvE/PvP/whatSoEver experiences.
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CCP Sreegs
C C P C C P Alliance
2024
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Posted - 2012.08.09 15:38:00 -
[144] - Quote
EvilweaselSA wrote:CCP Sreegs wrote:Nobody ever said anything about passive income. Every example of passive income mentioned thus far has been designed purposely to be so. This was not. It becomes a security issue when it is egregious enough to be virtually identical to botting. The GM team is aware of this news item and the details and the game design team has committed to fixing the problem.
If you have some insight that I don't as to what is or isn't my team's responsibility however please feel free to clue me in because it seems to differ from that of my boss. There was no botting issue here. This was started by your algorithm thinking that someone was a bot, them challenging that, and the decision being made to decide they were a bot despite no botting software, macro software, game hacks, or the like. Instead of fixing the issue with the botting algorithm (suggested fix: if the client isn't sending server commands it's probably not botting because it's not doing anything), team security decided to take over running enforcement of edge cases where 100% legitimate game behavior allows for something the game designers decide is a bad idea. There's no good reason for team security to be involved because they don't know what has/hasn't been decided in the past, they don't have layers of review to handle hard cases fairly (if something's a hard case, like 100% legitimate game behavior doing something unexpected you want several sets of eyes on it reviewing it independently, such as regular and senior GMs). Team Security should deal with stuff the GMs are incapable of handling: botting detection, RMT, hacks, and the like that does not involve 100% in-game behavior. Things involving pure in-game behavior is what the GM team is designed to handle and it's their job to handle. As for the "designed/non-designed" thing (which is nonsense: half of EVE is about doing things that were not designed, from hotdrops to defensive SBUs), here's this: Say I idle in a NC. system with the name "down with goons" and a bio saying all donations go to fighting goonswarm in some verifiable way, say by a public api (though I keep a percentage, making it personal income). Every so often people go "damn straight down with those goons" and send me money. Am I a bot? I'm just parked in space, cloaked. I suspect I would be, because I'm logged into game making money and the combination of the two would trigger your algorithm (since it clearly doesn't take into account failing to send any commands at all to the server). Hell, I make passive income every day from simply holding various items that will appreciate in value: fortunately your algorithms don't detect that sort of thing or I might get banned for holding guidance systems as they steadily appreciate in value even if I'm unsubbed.
Except that the strawman you're presenting isn't the situation we're discussing or saying we're going to be handling and has no bearing or relevance on this particular discussion. We would not be having this conversation based on that activity.
The activity we ARE discussing is identical in every aspect other than involving a 3rd party piece of software to botting. Therefore, until Design can fix it we are not giving people passes when the sensors are tripped.
This might be the 6th time I've said that in this thread. "Sreegs has juuust edged out Soundwave as my favourite dev." - Meita Way 2012 |
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CARB0N FIBER
Derailleurs
41
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Posted - 2012.08.09 15:39:00 -
[145] - Quote
How do you know I'm AFK?
Are you hacking my web cam?
Is there a time limit on how long I can play?
What is this time limit?
Will this time limit be like other rules, where we don't know what it is till we are banned?
Since playing 23 hours a day is now a bannable offense will we be getting a dicounted rate?
So we pay for 720 hours of game time, in which we can play 690 hours. So how many of the 690 hours of the 720 hours we pay for can we play without getting banned?
Another thing, ALT's. Obviously if you have multiple accounts logged in one is AFK. So should you banned if you have multiple accounts?
I know you saying something like I'm not AFK, I have a screen and keyboard for every account. How do we know that? |
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CCP Sreegs
C C P C C P Alliance
2024
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Posted - 2012.08.09 15:39:00 -
[146] - Quote
highonpop wrote:CCP could just get rid on infinite respawns
TADA!
Problem solved
That would certainly fix this particular issue yes. "Sreegs has juuust edged out Soundwave as my favourite dev." - Meita Way 2012 |
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EvilweaselSA
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
337
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Posted - 2012.08.09 15:40:00 -
[147] - Quote
CCP Sreegs wrote: We aren't looking for that action. We're looking for bots. In this case the behavior is similar and it is being abused 24 hours a day. Therefore, we are treating it the same.
It's not a bot. It's 100% agreed its a NotBot. There's no reason for it to be treated as "the same" except that the algorithm to detect bots detected a NotBot as a bot. There was no reasoned decision to start treating cases like this where a NotBot is making money in a way that CCP has decided shouldn't be, and the bot detection algorithm changed to do so. Instead, the bot detection system decided a NotBot was a bot, and after proof was supplied the algorithm was wrong, the algorithm was redefined to be right. That's a bad policy and this should be given back to the GM team and the algorithm fixed. |
Diomedes Gambito
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
0
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Posted - 2012.08.09 15:40:00 -
[148] - Quote
Bagehi wrote:If you check out the COSMOS complexes, they are old, old code. They do not de-spawn. Horribly farmed. Biggest problem with completing COSMOS for a normal player is actually being able to get the things you need before the farmers grab them. Players have complained for years about that. The upper level COSMOS are basically unusable at this point because of farmers. So, I'm happy Sreegs did this, even though it is a bandaid fix.
Simple solution to the old code: Add a random direction warp out command as in log-off sequence within 5 minutes as last rat in the complex was killed at 400km radius. Without the person being around keyboard and mouse to cancel the warpout (collecting his drones etc.) the AFK pilot will find his ship out of the plex and thus unable to generate AFK ISK. Unless the AFK farmers use 3rd party software to cancel the warp ( ban able activity) this will stop the AFK ISK farming.
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CCP Sreegs
C C P C C P Alliance
2024
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Posted - 2012.08.09 15:41:00 -
[149] - Quote
Bubanni wrote:CCP Sreegs wrote:cheese monkey wrote:Sreegs... Before you alienate your entire player/customer base i suggest you withdraw this and have a think a bit longer. The mere fact that u have edited it 3 times is negligence at best! Its ok to admit you were wrong and say sorry. If anything doing so would GAIN you some respect. It was edited once because people misinterpreted my comments to mean that we were banning activity that we aren't. This seems to still be the case. There is a very specific situation which caused this detection which is essentially warping into a particular cosmos plex at downtime, dropping your sentry drones, applying reps to them then leaving your computer until the next downtime. This is possible because in that particular room the drones respawn. This is going on 24 hours a day, 7 days a week. That is bad. If you haven't already heard from us then to date you haven't been doing it. However, there have been cases where people HAVE been doing this and complained that there was no announcement put out about it. Here is the announcement. This potentially impacts more than the one COSMOS plex which is why the specific COSMOS plex was not mentioned in the OP. Were I to mention it then they would move to a new plex and we'd be dealing with the same rage from them because THIS IS A DIFFERENT PLEX. So what your saying is you havn't banned anyone for doing this yet? Because people have been doing this for years (very few of cause can do it because of the limited amount of these sites) I think it's fine that CCP now decides this isn't okay anymore, and change the mechanics so it can't be done anymore, but as long as you don't ban anyone for using these simple game mechanics (drop drones, rep them, go afk) You could simply make it so sentry drones got abandond or disconnected after 1 hour or so... that would fix the problem completly (and if people found a way around that, then they were cheating)
What I'm saying is that any bans that were applied (and they wouldhave been recent) will be undone but in the future they will not, as I stated in the news item. This only becomes a problem when it is abused. "Sreegs has juuust edged out Soundwave as my favourite dev." - Meita Way 2012 |
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highonpop
Void.Tech Fatal Ascension
198
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Posted - 2012.08.09 15:42:00 -
[150] - Quote
CCP Sreegs wrote:highonpop wrote:CCP could just get rid on infinite respawns
TADA!
Problem solved That would certainly fix this particular issue yes.
I've never understood why anything would have a perma-respawn involved. Unless it was a glitch..
http://www.soundboard.com/sb/Very%20best%20of%20Makalu%20Zarya |
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