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rain9441
Big Head Want Dolly
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Posted - 2010.11.27 02:38:00 -
[1]
Before I even begin discussion I'll freely admit half of this post is to generate hype about this thread.
The 20 billion ISK question is the topic. Can a low sec hub exist? I've spent the better part of 30 days in low sec testing the waters and pushing the idea. This isn't an inexperienced person + idea clashing (Although it is close). It's not impossible. I know this already. A low sec hub will never be an Amarr, Jita, or even a Hek. But that doesn't mean it can't be a hub.
TL;DR?: The risks associated with low sec provide more security than CONCORD can when the players are educated.
The lack of concord seems to be the primary concern/barrier for most players I've talked to. A lot of players feel the need to have that sweet illusionary net of safety known as CONCORD wrapped around them at all time. Now I love CONCORD and it's thirst for capacitors, but it doesn't make me tingly when I'm flying around in high sec. I, as a lot of eve, know that CONCORD isn't really the police. I also believe there is more CONCORD in low sec than in hi-sec in the right cirumstances. Yes, low sec has it's own natural police force working against itself. Everybody's first assumption about low sec is that if you go there, pirates will blow you up. This is true. There are players who love to blow stuff up (And there are those who like to play cat and mouse, like myself). In order to blow people up you have to establish yourself as the primary force in the area.
Is it possible to establish yourself as the primary force in a low sec hub? If the hub is popular enough that most players know about it, then no - it isn't. For every ship that wants to claim the low sec hub as their own waters, there is another bigger ship that can come wipe it out. For every bigger ship, there is an even bigger ship. For every gang, their is a bigger blob. At any time one would attempt to claim ownership of the low sec hub system and start taking shots at players they'd be faced with the inevitable hot drop of supercarriers. I hope I've established my point so far. Now how does this relate to CONCORD?
Very simple. CONCORD is inferier to the threat of hot dropped super carriers for 2 reasons. First, CONCORD will let suicide gankers and pirates freely stand wherever they want until the moment suddenly becomes favorable for the pirate. At a low sec hub, the favor goes to the extensive set of players which make up the 'I can hot drop on your face' club at any given time. While CONCORD provides consequences, low sec space provides risk.
Any experienced player can tell you that a low sec hub can be as safe as any high sec hub. So long as you have the basic tools and knowledge, I see no reason a low sec hub cannot exist.
So is it possible? Can the idea work?
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Taedrin
Gallente The Green Cross Sev3rance
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Posted - 2010.11.27 04:05:00 -
[2]
Yes, they can and do work in low sec. I have heard several stories of people who have managed to corner the entire Tech 1 market in a low sec area, and made a considerable profit off of it.
The great thing about low sec, is that there is lower competition, and goods are scarce. Lazy pilots are willing to pay a premium to throw together a cheap tech 1 fit ship NOW rather than fly all the way to Jita to put together a proper ship, and fly it all the way back (hoping to avoid any gate camps). ----------
Originally by: Dr Fighter "how do you know when youve had a repro accident"
Theres modules missing and morphite in your mineral pile.
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Clown Pron
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Posted - 2010.11.27 04:23:00 -
[3]
tl;dr
Since this sounds like a yes or no question, I have a 50% chance of being right
No
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Zhim'Fufu
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Posted - 2010.11.27 04:38:00 -
[4]
There are plenty of minor low sec market hubs thanks to faction warfare. Amamake is a prime example as it has a rather nice selection of goods at reasonable prices due to all the pew pew and rampant ship destruction in the general area. As far as setting up shop well even the most active low sec system will almost always have an uncamped gate to ninja in your orca or freighter if you are patient and can scout.
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Culmen
Caldari Blood Phage Syndicate
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Posted - 2010.11.27 05:00:00 -
[5]
Two Words: Jump Freighters
Supply isn't all that difficult. Sold battlecruiser in low sec while supplying my self with ships.
Turn over was a bit slow, but it was profitable enough. and further more why do i even need a sig? |
rain9441
Big Head Want Dolly
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Posted - 2010.11.27 05:03:00 -
[6]
Small outposts with some stuff on the market is not what I'm trying to refer to when I say low sec hub. Think bigger.
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Zhim'Fufu
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Posted - 2010.11.27 05:07:00 -
[7]
Originally by: rain9441 Small outposts with some stuff on the market is not what I'm trying to refer to when I say low sec hub. Think bigger.
People already have. When I say 'minor' hub what I mean is you have access to the same stuff as a major hub only a bit more expensive and not the zomg oversaturation of stock. If anything current low sec hubs are gold mines if you know what sells and what doesn't.
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Opertone
Caldari Metalworks Majesta Empire
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Posted - 2010.11.27 06:30:00 -
[8]
it is not a market hub...
there is no daily export/import trade, bidding, price changes... it's not a hub by definition.
It's called supplier monopoly, cornered market or even mafia controlled trade.
Other traders aren't allowed to interfere with your markets. Nobody wants to make large scale contracts in you area. Thus you only charge an extra margin on your goods.
If you declare peace pact, trade will be still difficult, with extra protection costs, extra transportation expenses, overall higher prices due to small scale of operations. When the traders become numerous and drop their alertness to lower levels, there is a chance of massive pirate onslaught. Raids become common and make trade volumes collapse.
Finally as far as suppliers bear extra costs looking for higher margins, the customers and their purchasing power remain very limited. Nothing can bring more people into low sec, unless something rewarding like super faction missions (with rare implants compensation) or even unimaginable cosmic clouds of super precious gas appear in that area.
Only a gold rush can make places like low sec popular, attracting empire carebears and 0.0 certain residents. If not only some facwar navy forces have interest in patrolling the low sec areas.
Conclusion, no, not a market hub. Just a rip-off ninja van. Low sec needs enthusiasm and more residents.
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Bhattran
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Posted - 2010.11.27 12:25:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Opertone it is not a market hub...
there is no daily export/import trade, bidding, price changes... it's not a hub by definition.
It's called supplier monopoly, cornered market or even mafia controlled trade.
Other traders aren't allowed to interfere with your markets. Nobody wants to make large scale contracts in you area. Thus you only charge an extra margin on your goods.
If you declare peace pact, trade will be still difficult, with extra protection costs, extra transportation expenses, overall higher prices due to small scale of operations. When the traders become numerous and drop their alertness to lower levels, there is a chance of massive pirate onslaught. Raids become common and make trade volumes collapse.
Finally as far as suppliers bear extra costs looking for higher margins, the customers and their purchasing power remain very limited. Nothing can bring more people into low sec, unless something rewarding like super faction missions (with rare implants compensation) or even unimaginable cosmic clouds of super precious gas appear in that area.
Only a gold rush can make places like low sec popular, attracting empire carebears and 0.0 certain residents. If not only some facwar navy forces have interest in patrolling the low sec areas.
Conclusion, no, not a market hub. Just a rip-off ninja van. Low sec needs enthusiasm and more residents.
^That.
--WIS/Incarna/Ambulation where microtransactions come to play, and uh bars.-- |
Brian Ballsack
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Posted - 2010.11.27 12:35:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Opertone it is not a market hub...
there is no daily export/import trade, bidding, price changes... it's not a hub by definition.
It's called supplier monopoly, cornered market or even mafia controlled trade.
Other traders aren't allowed to interfere with your markets. Nobody wants to make large scale contracts in you area. Thus you only charge an extra margin on your goods.
If you declare peace pact, trade will be still difficult, with extra protection costs, extra transportation expenses, overall higher prices due to small scale of operations. When the traders become numerous and drop their alertness to lower levels, there is a chance of massive pirate onslaught. Raids become common and make trade volumes collapse.
Finally as far as suppliers bear extra costs looking for higher margins, the customers and their purchasing power remain very limited. Nothing can bring more people into low sec, unless something rewarding like super faction missions (with rare implants compensation) or even unimaginable cosmic clouds of super precious gas appear in that area.
Only a gold rush can make places like low sec popular, attracting empire carebears and 0.0 certain residents. If not only some facwar navy forces have interest in patrolling the low sec areas.
Conclusion, no, not a market hub. Just a rip-off ninja van. Low sec needs enthusiasm and more residents.
lol I hate these clueless people too scared to enter low sec.
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Teinyhr
Minmatar Tribal Liberation Force
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Posted - 2010.11.27 12:51:00 -
[11]
I have no goddamn clue what jibberish you drooled over the keyboard about CONCORD, it didn't make a spatter of sense.
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Furb Killer
Gallente
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Posted - 2010.11.27 13:14:00 -
[12]
Simple answer, no.
Of course some people can supply a station with some stuff, but a real market hub will never exist. Why not? The ammount of pirates far outnumber the ammount of non-pirates in low sec, so if a real market hub would exist it would get camped to hell.
In old providence the anti-pirates outnumbered the (local) pirates, which was why you could have a healthy environment with market hubs.
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Nikita Alterana
Risen Angels
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Posted - 2010.11.27 13:33:00 -
[13]
there are a lot of small pseudo trade hubs in the capital rotation systems, like Saminer, I've never had someone try to land a shot on me there despite sitting for 20 minutes parked outside station in a delicious battlecruiser with a cyno lit. There's never camps, never ganks, there is this sort of unofficial truce, and anyone who interferes with that gets caps dropped on their ass.
Crazy doesn't even start to cover it |
Guttripper
Caldari State War Academy
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Posted - 2010.11.27 13:45:00 -
[14]
One problem with this scenario I experienced long ago was how deep into low sec space you set-up shop. If you are based relatively close to high sec space and charge extreme prices, then pilots will either jump into high sec or get an alt to deliver what they need at cheaper rates and in higher quantities. Yet if you go too far into low sec space, then to bring enough market wares in the quantities that would be beneficial to unload run the risks of loosing it all before even arriving.
Years ago (*waves cane*), low sec space was not always "shoot first and skip the questions" as it currently stands today. So moving through it was not always a risky affair. Of course, most people did not have an alt freighter pilot to use either and had to use industrial ships.
Good luck if you do decide to give it a go.
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Boltorano
Fourth Circle Total Comfort
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Posted - 2010.11.27 13:45:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Nikita Alterana there are a lot of small pseudo trade hubs in the capital rotation systems, like Saminer, I've never had someone try to land a shot on me there despite sitting for 20 minutes parked outside station in a delicious battlecruiser with a cyno lit. There's never camps, never ganks, there is this sort of unofficial truce, and anyone who interferes with that gets caps dropped on their ass.
Hmm...
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Meridith Akesia
Tempest Legion Ghost Syndicate.
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Posted - 2010.11.27 15:12:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Boltorano
Originally by: Nikita Alterana there are a lot of small pseudo trade hubs in the capital rotation systems, like Saminer, I've never had someone try to land a shot on me there despite sitting for 20 minutes parked outside station in a delicious battlecruiser with a cyno lit. There's never camps, never ganks, there is this sort of unofficial truce, and anyone who interferes with that gets caps dropped on their ass.
Hmm...
I lol'd
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rain9441
Big Head Want Dolly
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Posted - 2010.11.27 15:33:00 -
[17]
Regarding Providence: Providence is 0.0 and thus can have bubbles. Low sec = no bubbles. You can't camp a low sec station like you can camp a 0.0 station. Providence can't be safer than low sec, no matter how many anti-pirates exist.
Regarding 'a hub': I can go to any of the 4 major trade hubs (And maybe one or 2 more systems) and buy any ship with any fitting, any ammo, any rigs, any mods, any scripts. T1, T2, Meta1-4, and possibly even a good chunk of faction (Although not all faction). Faction market obviously is mainly a Jita thing. I can go to any of those 4 major hubs and buy 100 fully fitted ships if I wanted. I can also sell any and all of the above as well.
In order to call a low sec hub a low sec hub, I would expect nothing less than the same as the above - With capital ships included.
Right now as I've seen and read from this post, the only notion of a low sec hub that exists in people's brains are one man operations with a sparse set of extremely overpriced crap catered to one tiny audience. Don't forget how many 0.0 corps make trips to Jita every day. Every one of those trips starts with low sec.
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Aessoroz
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Posted - 2010.11.27 17:24:00 -
[18]
Edited by: Aessoroz on 27/11/2010 17:24:23
Originally by: rain9441 Every one of those trips starts with low sec.
Nope, not every one of the trips.
Some use awesome wormholes to get right into hisec. Some use the null<->high gates after they are locked down by friendies.
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