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Jagga Spikes
Minmatar Spikes Chop Shop
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Posted - 2010.11.27 11:16:00 -
[1]
Edited by: Jagga Spikes on 27/11/2010 11:25:19 http://go-dl1.eve-files.com/media/1011/Learning_removed.png
if you are still wondering what will happen with your attributes:
- (gray) implants remain as they are; note that with removal of "Learning" skill, implants lose some efficiency, but remain only way to affect attributes (and training speed) once remap is on cooldown
- (white) each attribute base 5 increases by 12 to 17; as before, this base can't be distributed; this increase is mostly to compensate for removed Learning group skills
- (green) distributed points remain as they are; no free remap is planned, but it should not affect training plans (YMMV)
- (yellow) all skills from Learning group are removed and skill points reimbursed to character (not account) to be distributed as player sees fit; note that while even partial training will be reimbursed, unless queue contains other (non-Learning group skills), training will be stopped; make sure there are other skills in training queue when change goes live
Points reimbursed (per level and rank; assuming full levels)
Rank 1 Rank 3 Level 1 250 750 Level 2 1,414~ 4,243~ Level 3 8,000 24,000 Level 4 42,255~ 135,765~ Level 5 256,000 768,000
note: ~ approximate value
- (blue) total will be recalculated
note: all of the numbers shown for example purposes; feel free to comment if my math is wrong; this is not intended as analysis if change is "nerf" or "buff"
edit: my html-fu is poor ________________________________ : Forum Bore 'Em : Foamy The Squirrel - [jedi handwave] "There is no spoon." |
Antihrist Pripravnik
4S Corporation Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2010.11.27 11:24:00 -
[2]
Edited by: Antihrist Pripravnik on 27/11/2010 11:26:39 edit: nvm... you've changed it
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Jagga Spikes
Minmatar Spikes Chop Shop
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Posted - 2010.11.27 11:28:00 -
[3]
thanks. i'd rather show image directly, but this will do ________________________________ : Forum Bore 'Em : Foamy The Squirrel - [jedi handwave] "There is no spoon." |
cynthia greythorne
Gallente Twilight Labs
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Posted - 2010.11.27 14:58:00 -
[4]
If i may say so, ZOMG!!! Clarity! Thank you Jagga Spikes!
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Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
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Posted - 2010.11.27 15:35:00 -
[5]
Best illustration so far!
Thumbed. ùùù ôIf you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡à you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.ö ù Karath Piki |
Ere Colliseru
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Posted - 2010.11.27 17:33:00 -
[6]
Excellent work - thx!
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Jagga Spikes
Minmatar Spikes Chop Shop
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Posted - 2010.11.28 11:23:00 -
[7]
updated with visible image. hopefully, i won't get busted :) ________________________________ : Forum Bore 'Em : Foamy The Squirrel - [jedi handwave] "There is no spoon." |
Hooligan Tool
Sebiestor tribe
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Posted - 2010.11.28 17:32:00 -
[8]
Don't forget that the really anal people would have trained their secondary attribute Advanced skill to V as well. Their top two attributes would have been 33/26.4 in this case. In the new system, they can only get 32/26 -- that's what all the complaining is about.
I like the new system, but then again I didn't min-max my attributes.
Old: base 9-8-5-8-9, totals 24.3-23.1-19.8-23.1-24.2 including 5/4 Learning skills and +4 implants. New: base 21-20-17-20-21, totals 25-24-21-24-25 including +4 implants. All of my attributes get a small boost this way. Woohoo! ----- Ambush. Hit and run. Gank before tank. Speed is life. |
Kayen Qeid
Gallente Federal Navy Academy
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Posted - 2010.11.28 17:52:00 -
[9]
Awesome guide!
I have all learning skills at level 5 so I will get 5,376,000 SP to redistrubute...it was really boring to train all that so I like this change from CCP. It makes EVE alot more fun from the start. |
Jagga Spikes
Minmatar Spikes Chop Shop
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Posted - 2010.12.04 15:29:00 -
[10]
mhm, did I just bumped this? hopefully, someone may find it useful. ________________________________ : Forum Bore 'Em : Foamy The Squirrel - [jedi handwave] "There is no spoon." |
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Ni'ark
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Posted - 2010.12.06 14:56:00 -
[11]
Edited by: Ni''ark on 06/12/2010 14:56:02 friendly bump haters will hate :)
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Roth Harkesh
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Posted - 2010.12.07 00:01:00 -
[12]
I have a question about my char, started few days ago and surely I'll use all of my 100% speed training bonus by the patch. Now if I got this right my char is gonna get additional attributes to redistribute, or I'm horribly wrong and started to play EvE at the worst possible time?
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Jagga Spikes
Minmatar Spikes Chop Shop
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Posted - 2010.12.07 00:15:00 -
[13]
as can be seen from the picture, distributable points (green) will not change. 14 points that are assigned at remap will remain as they are. additional attribute points (yellow) gained by learning will be removed and 12 will be added to each attribute base (white).
up to 14th, best thing to do, as before, is to train Learning skills, up to limits of your sanity and/or patience. :) ________________________________ : Forum Bore 'Em : Foamy The Squirrel - [jedi handwave] "There is no spoon." |
Hooligan Tool
Sebiestor tribe
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Posted - 2010.12.07 04:52:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Roth Harkesh I have a question about my char, started few days ago and surely I'll use all of my 100% speed training bonus by the patch. Now if I got this right my char is gonna get additional attributes to redistribute, or I'm horribly wrong and started to play EvE at the worst possible time?
You're not horribly wrong.
If you haven't bought the Learning skills yet ... don't. if you did buy them already, you paid way too much. After the 14th your character will gain in every attribute. This will be done automatically, and will result in faster training for you.
The 'additional attributes to redistribute' are actually available to you now. It's called neural remapping or just remap for short. ----- Ambush. Hit and run. Gank before tank. Speed is life. |
VC General
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Posted - 2010.12.07 06:54:00 -
[15]
I'm just glad I didn't train the advanced ones to 5. Considering that the attributes for them aren't simple mem/int, and thus they take longer to train per point than the other learning skills, I'm set to come out ahead nicely over the suckers that sunk 60+ days into training those damn things over the last couple years.
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Jun Lin
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Posted - 2010.12.07 11:17:00 -
[16]
the only ones screwed are those who just recently finished to all lvl5 their learnings those who had em for years got the "wasted" time already back
still i am happy with the changes^^
let's hope that the implant market will spit out a high profit for me
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Roth Harkesh
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Posted - 2010.12.07 13:02:00 -
[17]
You're not horribly wrong.
If you haven't bought the Learning skills yet ... don't. if you did buy them already, you paid way too much. After the 14th your character will gain in every attribute. This will be done automatically, and will result in faster training for you.
The 'additional attributes to redistribute' are actually available to you now. It's called neural remapping or just remap for short. Different skill categories use different attributes. For example: Gunnery uses Perception as primary and Willpower as secondary. If you wanted to remap to make Gunnery skills train really fast, you would put maximum points into Perception and whatever's left into Willpower.
Thanks for the info and I'll see what can be done in remapping my attributes. |
Mag's
the united Negative Ten.
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Posted - 2010.12.07 13:33:00 -
[18]
Great thread.
Originally by: Allestin Villimar Also, if your bookmarks are too far out, they can and will ban you for it.
Originally by: Torothanax Low population in w systems makes afk cloaking unattractive. |
TigerXtrm
Iron-Sky Controlled Chaos
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Posted - 2010.12.07 13:54:00 -
[19]
So basically the only group of people who has the 'right' to complain about the removal of learning skills are those who had them all trained AND have +5 implants in them at all times. Everyone else get's a pretty significant boost. And be honest, how many people have +5's to begin with, let alone have them in their clone 24/7, during combat etc. Almost none. So the point is negligible.
Hope we can now all agree that 99.99999999% of the playerbase get's a learning speed boost because of this.
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AFK Master
AFK Chartered System Management
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Posted - 2010.12.07 17:59:00 -
[20]
Originally by: TigerXtrm So basically the only group of people who has the 'right' to complain about the removal of learning skills are those who had them all trained AND have +5 implants in them at all times. Everyone else get's a pretty significant boost. And be honest, how many people have +5's to begin with, let alone have them in their clone 24/7, during combat etc. Almost none. So the point is negligible.
Hope we can now all agree that 99.99999999% of the playerbase get's a learning speed boost because of this.
You base this on what exactly? I'm all for the change, but please don't pull figures out your arse and claim them to be facts.
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Skyler Snow
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Posted - 2010.12.07 20:23:00 -
[21]
Edited by: Skyler Snow on 07/12/2010 20:25:35 Edit: spelling
Originally by: TigerXtrm And be honest, how many people have +5's to begin with, let alone have them in their clone 24/7, during combat etc. Almost none.
Do not pull statistics out of your arse.
I have 8 characters that use +5 implants. 6 of them have a full set of +5 implants. 3 of them have been in the "all +5s" clone all the time for at least 2 years in a row (maybe more) and two others are in it more than 90% of the time.
Even my 0.0 pvper has an all +5 clone he uses when on duty in empire (even if in war: being podded in empire means you did something wrong), 2 clones with 2 +5s and three snakes (+3s) he uses in 0.0 in "calm" periods. The other two 0.0 clones do not have +5s (one has +3s as a slave set and the other ... is currently waiting for new implants but generally fits +2 slaves).
Also I know a lot of people that use +5s. I'm definitively not the only one. The main reason serious PvPers do not fit +5s is that implant sets only go +2 or +3. There is no reason an industrialist or a trader should not use +5s. PvPers and missioners may or may not opt for sets instead of +5s.
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Stormmaster Neptunius
Gallente
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Posted - 2010.12.09 13:10:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Skyler Snow Edited by: Skyler Snow on 07/12/2010 20:25:35 Edit: spelling
Originally by: TigerXtrm And be honest, how many people have +5's to begin with, let alone have them in their clone 24/7, during combat etc. Almost none.
Do not pull statistics out of your arse.
I have 8 characters that use +5 implants. 6 of them have a full set of +5 implants. 3 of them have been in the "all +5s" clone all the time for at least 2 years in a row (maybe more) and two others are in it more than 90% of the time.
Even my 0.0 pvper has an all +5 clone he uses when on duty in empire (even if in war: being podded in empire means you did something wrong), 2 clones with 2 +5s and three snakes (+3s) he uses in 0.0 in "calm" periods. The other two 0.0 clones do not have +5s (one has +3s as a slave set and the other ... is currently waiting for new implants but generally fits +2 slaves).
Also I know a lot of people that use +5s. I'm definitively not the only one. The main reason serious PvPers do not fit +5s is that implant sets only go +2 or +3. There is no reason an industrialist or a trader should not use +5s. PvPers and missioners may or may not opt for sets instead of +5s.
Right. Moreover, unlike what TigerXtrm said, +5 implants are not a necessary condition to lose a bit of training speed with the upcoming change. Anyone who has all learning skills at level V will lose a bit, level of implants only means how much they are going to lose. Example: a character with all Learnings V and no implants at all (can you even imagine it?), remapped to 15/9. (15+10)*1.1= 25*1.1=27.5 After the change the main attribute will be 15+12=27. So even characters without implants at all will lose half point of their main attribute. Well, it's a bit different for the secondary attribute: (9+10)*1.1=20.9 becomes 9+12=21 meaning 0.1 point gain. Now, is it nice to exchange 0.5 point of primary attribute for 0.1 point of secondary? And this is for a character who does not use implants at all! Those who use implants will lose even more and even at non-optimal remap. And for those with +5 implants (like me), they will only have the same points in attributes that are set to minimum, all the rest will be reduced a bit. So if you are currently training a skill at a worst remap, you will be training it at the same speed after the change. In all other remaps your speed will be reduced.
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Jagga Spikes
Minmatar Spikes Chop Shop
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Posted - 2010.12.15 17:22:00 -
[23]
just a friendly reminder.
apparently, there was remap included. anyone not getting remapped at 15th will be getting one at 16th December.
and with this, i'll be letting this thread pass into oblivion.
welcome to the brave new world. ________________________________ : Forum Bore 'Em : Foamy The Squirrel - [jedi handwave] "There is no spoon." |
Hardreign
Minmatar
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Posted - 2010.12.17 02:17:00 -
[24]
Thanks for the effort. Clear as a bell!
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