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Saleen Lee
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Posted - 2010.11.29 07:59:00 -
[1]
Ive been hearing a small bit of talk about the drake getting nerfed. Is this true or just a little about ideas? And please post if you think the drake should be nerfed or not, I would just like to know a little information about this before i ever train for one. -Thanks
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Alara IonStorm
Agent-Orange Nabaal Syndicate
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Posted - 2010.11.29 08:20:00 -
[2]
there is 0 garentee of a Drake Nerf and even if there is I hope the close range HAM fits are just as effective. The Drake is not in anyway overpowered compared to the other Battlecruisers. It is just it's long range weapon systems that are the trouble. The dmg is not gimped over range like guns are.
Here are my opinions in another thread.
Originally by: Alara IonStorm I agree entirely, Drakes them selves are not OP. Harbingers tank near the same and can be Capboosted and run a Med Neut, Hurricanes are fast and have insane DPS with excellent fitting a duel Neuts and the Myrm may not be the best but can fit any gun type, has a mean tank(active and passive) and deals consderable DPS. Fight a HAM Drake with those and it pretty much comes down to SP and player skill.
The problem is Drake Blobs with Projection and DPS. There long range fits are incredible and something should be done. I don't support a Drake Nerf but do support a Heavy Nerf the same way Harbingers can only do similar Dmg with beams if they use Multi gimping range. I would not like to see a change till Caldari and Minmatar sheild battleships have there place and Sheild Carriers can be used effectively with them.
I am glad Caldari have a fleet ship but I would prefer it be the Raven and Rokh.
Close range combat in a Drake is more reliant on Cap and a Capbooster is not practical, there is also no room for a medium Nos to counter tis without gimping DPS. The Drake is also one of the hardest of the Battlecruisers to fit out with the tough fitting regs on missiles and the CPU heavy sheild tank.
Overall other Battlecruisers can face it equally in close range combat but in long range it is superior to a ridiculous level. I just hope that if the Heavy Drake is Nerfed Caldari Battleships and Carriers get rebalenced to fill the void.
@ leasts thats my 2 ISK on the subject.
-- I am now on a Crusade to Fix the Omen!
For Great Justice!
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Kai Yuen
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Posted - 2010.11.29 08:33:00 -
[3]
Originally by: Alara IonStorm there is 0 garentee of a Drake Nerf and even if there is I hope the close range HAM fits are just as effective. The Drake is not in anyway overpowered compared to the other Battlecruisers. It is just it's long range weapon systems that are the trouble. The dmg is not gimped over range like guns are.
Here are my opinions in another thread.
Originally by: Alara IonStorm I agree entirely, Drakes them selves are not OP. Harbingers tank near the same and can be Capboosted and run a Med Neut, Hurricanes are fast and have insane DPS with excellent fitting a duel Neuts and the Myrm may not be the best but can fit any gun type, has a mean tank(active and passive) and deals consderable DPS. Fight a HAM Drake with those and it pretty much comes down to SP and player skill.
The problem is Drake Blobs with Projection and DPS. There long range fits are incredible and something should be done. I don't support a Drake Nerf but do support a Heavy Nerf the same way Harbingers can only do similar Dmg with beams if they use Multi gimping range. I would not like to see a change till Caldari and Minmatar sheild battleships have there place and Sheild Carriers can be used effectively with them.
I am glad Caldari have a fleet ship but I would prefer it be the Raven and Rokh.
Close range combat in a Drake is more reliant on Cap and a Capbooster is not practical, there is also no room for a medium Nos to counter tis without gimping DPS. The Drake is also one of the hardest of the Battlecruisers to fit out with the tough fitting regs on missiles and the CPU heavy sheild tank.
Overall other Battlecruisers can face it equally in close range combat but in long range it is superior to a ridiculous level. I just hope that if the Heavy Drake is Nerfed Caldari Battleships and Carriers get rebalenced to fill the void.
@ leasts thats my 2 ISK on the subject.
I wouldn't even touch the drake. I'd support changing the harbi's bonus to 5% armor resist per level and that's it. The drake isn't OP. Sure, drake blobs are hard to deal with, but so are BLOBS in general. Why blame the drake? Armor hacs perform extremely well against drakes. Small sig radii, high DPS, better speed, and large buffers. Shall we nerf armor hacs too then? What about sniper hacs? There isn't anything a sniper hac gang can't alpha, that includes a drake. Shall we nerf them too? Really? Nerf the drake? 2 years ago everyone said the drake sucked. 1 year ago everyone said the drake was "ok", and this year they say it's overpowered. You know what didn't change over the course of that time? The drake. It's still the same old drake. It already got nerfed once on its passive recharge. Leave it alone. It's the only Caldari ship worth flying. Leave its weapons alone. They're the only Caldari weapon worth fitting. Leave everything about the drake and its fleet alone. You still see harbi's and hurricanes tagging along in shield fleets. Yes, they get primaried first but they also put out twice the DPS.
And don't BS me on the Raven and the Rokh. The Rokh sucks ass. Rails suck ass. The Rokh AND its rails suck ass. The Raven sucks ass. Cruise missiles suck ass. The Raven AND its cruise missiles suck ass, and battleship fleets are dead. It's either nano cruiser, sniper hacs, armor hacs, or BCs.
Leave the drake. It isn't OPed and there's already viable counters. This isn't "anti-Caldari" online.
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Alara IonStorm
Agent-Orange Nabaal Syndicate
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Posted - 2010.11.29 08:41:00 -
[4]
Originally by: Kai Yuen And don't BS me on the Raven and the Rokh. The Rokh sucks ass. Rails suck ass. The Rokh AND its rails suck ass. The Raven sucks ass. Cruise missiles suck ass. The Raven AND its cruise missiles suck ass, and battleship fleets are dead. It's either nano cruiser, sniper hacs, armor hacs, or BCs.
Leave the drake. It isn't OPed and there's already viable counters. This isn't "anti-Caldari" online.
Very mature of you, if you actually read the post I am asking for a Buff to Caldari Battleships so they can support each other and put out DPS making Sheild Capitals useful.
Originally by: Kai Yuen The drake isn't OP. Sure, drake blobs are hard to deal with, but so are BLOBS in general. Why blame the drake?
Cept no other Battlecruiser can out range Heavy Missiles making them near useless against a Drake Blob and Sniper HAC's and other Battlecruisers can't put out the same DPS at range or hold a Tank.
Stop yelling Don't Nerf Caldari and start asking how we can balence there other ships.
-- I am now on a Crusade to Fix the Omen!
For Great Justice!
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Mr Australia
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Posted - 2010.11.29 09:04:00 -
[5]
Originally by: Alara IonStorm
Cept no other Battlecruiser can out range Heavy Missiles making them near useless against a Drake Blob and Sniper HAC's and other Battlecruisers can't put out the same DPS at range or hold a Tank.
Oh no, caldari have ONE superior class ship out of the 20 or so available. BETTER NERF IT QUICK!!!!!!!!!
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ninjaholic
NME1
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Posted - 2010.11.29 09:07:00 -
[6]
I hate the Drake.
However, the Drake doesn't need a nerf.
And the blobs? Lol. If it's not a Drake, it's going to be another ship. Probably the Hurricane.
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it440
Caldari OZ industries and Technology
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Posted - 2010.11.29 09:09:00 -
[7]
LOL@ nijaholic sig :)) CCP supports this message. I think. |
Alara IonStorm
Agent-Orange Nabaal Syndicate
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Posted - 2010.11.29 09:12:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Mr Australia Oh no, caldari have ONE superior class ship out of the 20 or so available. BETTER NERF IT QUICK!!!!!!!!!
Thats the problem they only have one
Originally by: ninjaholic I hate the Drake.
However, the Drake doesn't need a nerf.
And the blobs? Lol. If it's not a Drake, it's going to be another ship. Probably the Hurricane.
Hurricane is small gang king catching the most real kill mails of any ship. A testament to Minmatar Design as well as the incredable fitting on the ship and other Autoboats. In fact the only Minmatar Warship that has fitting Issues is there only serious missile boat the Typhoon.
It would be nice if there were more Caldari small gang boats, a HAM Moa would be a nice start.
-- I am now on a Crusade to Fix the Omen!
For Great Justice!
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Kizahhan
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Posted - 2010.11.29 09:55:00 -
[9]
Drake needs a CPU/powergrid buff and a better paintjob.
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Kai Yuen
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Posted - 2010.11.29 09:56:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Alara IonStorm
Very mature of you, if you actually read the post I am asking for a Buff to Caldari Battleships so they can support each other and put out DPS making Sheild Capitals useful.
No one ever said reality is mature, but it's still reality. Rails suck ass. Cruise missiles suck ass. Fix those? Fine. Still don't touch the drake. You'll never make shield capitals useful as long as slaves affect capitals, unless you make a similar implant set for shields, which will probably never happen.
Originally by: Alara IonStorm
Cept no other Battlecruiser can out range Heavy Missiles making them near useless against a Drake Blob and Sniper HAC's and other Battlecruisers can't put out the same DPS at range or hold a Tank.
Armor hacs outmanuever drakes easily, so range isn't always the issue. In fact, range hurts drakes more often than it hinders because missile DPS takes forever to actually apply itself, giving ample time for reps. Sniper hacs apply damage almost simultaneously, meaning if it's primaried it's gone. Logis didn't even have a chance to rep it. So what if the drake out ranges other BCs? That makes it unique in its role, not OP. You can't nerf the shield fleet without flat out stomping Caldari out of PvP. That being said, you're still flat wrong. Scorch is AMAZING. You can't possibly make up a decent range argument given the extraordinary buffs given to ACs and the OPness of scorch, especially given the DPS difference between the drake and the harbi/hurricane. Battleships are useless in PvP now, so don't pretend that's the answer you're looking for. They're good against nothing. They're slow, fat, expensive, and they warp like a pregnant cow. You can't catch anything and you can easily be caught.
Originally by: Alara IonStorm
Stop yelling Don't Nerf Caldari and start asking how we can balence there other ships.
DON'T NERF CALDARI!!!!! Never mess with Caldari, they're sadly PvE limited as it is the drake isn't even close to being overpowered.
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Alara IonStorm
Agent-Orange Nabaal Syndicate
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Posted - 2010.11.29 09:56:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Kizahhan Drake needs a CPU/powergrid buff and a better paintjob.
Love the Grey, but yeah easier fitting for sure. I need to bring up AWU to fit my new HAM Drake.
-- I am now on a Crusade to Fix the Omen!
For Great Justice!
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Professor Villinghopper
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Posted - 2010.11.29 10:17:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Alara IonStorm
Cept no other Battlecruiser can out range Heavy Missiles making them near useless against a Drake Blob and Sniper HAC's and other Battlecruisers can't put out the same DPS at range or hold a Tank.
Just had to put in my 2 cents on this. Why should other battlecruisers match the Drake at range? Caldari is pretty much THE long range race. I'd be more apt to change the second part than the dps at range, except....
Strong shielding is also very signature Caldari. Typically slow, agile ships with excellent range projection and a strong(relatively speaking) shield tank. The Drake... does seem maybe out of place though, just looking at the t1 ship lineup with shield resistance bonus.
Merlin Moa Ferox/Drake Rokh?
The Drake is the only one which does not use guns. If you follow the missile lineup...
Kestrel Caracal Drake Raven
It becomes clear that the Drake is the only one with the shield resistance bonus. Maybe this has something to do with the Battlecruiser class being the ganglink ship class, I'm not CCP, I don't know. However, if we follow the preset pattern, if anything changes about the Drake, it should probably be its tank, not its damage at range. That said, I'd rather not see the Drake lose its damage or shield capability or all we are left with is a tier 2 Battlecruiser that deals the least amount of damage, is typically slower than the others, and isn't stronger defensively either, leaving Caldari severely underperforming when it comes to the Battlecruiser class.
Although, swap that shield resistance bonus for another damage bonus, and maybe a bit of fitting so it can slot a medium neut in its last highslot? I dunno, that just seems like we are trying to shoehorn the Drake into being a Caldari version of the Harbinger and Hurricane.
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Fried'chickenisha
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Posted - 2010.11.29 13:12:00 -
[13]
Things will also change when they re-work tech 2 ammo, but ill give it time to field test some of it.
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Knawt Ongrid
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Posted - 2010.11.29 15:57:00 -
[14]
Reading a little and searching for other threads is your friend. over here, just on the next page
This thread is a waste, but oh noes i just posted in it bringing it to the top of the pile
So many drake whine threads on first page in this forum, seems to me some people are getting mighty worried. Acceptance of the nerf will come with time. Try to prepare yourselves. |
Saleen Lee
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Posted - 2010.11.29 18:17:00 -
[15]
Edited by: Saleen Lee on 29/11/2010 18:18:18
Originally by: Knawt Ongrid Reading a little and searching for other threads is your friend. over here, just on the next page
This thread is a waste, but oh noes i just posted in it bringing it to the top of the pile
So many drake whine threads on first page in this forum, seems to me some people are getting mighty worried. Acceptance of the nerf will come with time. Try to prepare yourselves.
Ive seen that thread....doesnt mean anything, and im sure everyone else has here cuase thats what started it. And it only talks about nerfing dps? The drakes dps is already weak.
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Solid Prefekt
Haven Front
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Posted - 2010.11.30 06:21:00 -
[16]
Three big reasons that make the drake work. First is resist bonus making it ideal with any large gang with logistics (which is all large gangs), second is range, and last is the price. The resist bonus should have gone on a boat that is designed for close range or for drones. That way it is at least taking some risk as it needs to get close or must stay stationary.
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Alara IonStorm
Agent-Orange Nabaal Syndicate
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Posted - 2010.11.30 07:16:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Solid Prefekt Three big reasons that make the drake work. First is resist bonus making it ideal with any large gang with logistics (which is all large gangs), second is range, and last is the price. The resist bonus should have gone on a boat that is designed for close range or for drones. That way it is at least taking some risk as it needs to get close or must stay stationary.
I beleive the Drake was origionally thought of to be a close range Heavy Assualt Missile Boat and that they thought fitting long rang weapon on a Dmg bonused ship was like a Rail Brutix. Missile Snipers get a velocity bonus so I imagine that they thought Heavies would not reach the target in time and be less useful then HAM's and for the longest time we agreed with them.
Then some thought what if we mostly bring Drakes to the fight. That way they are not wasted Dmg after turret hits but the near entirety of the Dmg. Genius tactic really and a bunch of successful fleets later they are common.
-- I am now on a Crusade to Fix the Omen!
For Great Justice!
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boomeroo
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Posted - 2010.11.30 12:47:00 -
[18]
i agree if anything should change about the drake it should be a dps bonus not a nerf
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