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Lucy Ditti
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Posted - 2010.11.29 20:15:00 -
[1]
Ok, assume I have a learning skill queued/in progress the very day the learning skills will be removed from Tranquility - what will happen?
Will the queue a.) continue training the learning skill till completion and eventually reimburse the skill points or b.) do some magic undefined stuff with the skill queue?
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Merouk Baas
Gallente
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Posted - 2010.11.29 20:49:00 -
[2]
You guys are really getting creative with the what-if scenarios.
My opinion is that they are removing the learning skills from the database, which means there's no way that you will be able to continue training them, as they will be completely gone from your character sheet. I think what will happen is this:
1. Your character will stop training because it won't know what to train (me, I'm going to have Battleships training to 5, so even if they remove the learning skills, my character sheet won't be confused about what skill to continue training... Battleships to 5).
2. You're going to get some skillpoints reimbursed to you. However, if you're training a learning skill from 8000 to 45255 and you're currently at 41023, from what I'm seeing in the character sheet the points don't register as trained until you reach 45255. So you're basically at 8000 until you're at 45255, if that makes sense. So in this scenario I predict you're going to be reimbursed 8000 points for your skill that has 41023 points in it.
So, good luck with it.
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Lucy Ditti
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Posted - 2010.11.29 20:53:00 -
[3]
Thanks for your post, yet you use the phrase My opinion, like in maybe and I do handreading for a living, what do you expect ;)
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Merouk Baas
Gallente
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Posted - 2010.11.29 21:01:00 -
[4]
Because the devs haven't actually officially answered this particular scenario. Though, if you find the giant discussion thread in the EVE Information Portal and post your scenario there, they might officially answer it. They've answered a few questions there.
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Pan Dora
Caldari Perkone
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Posted - 2010.11.29 22:50:00 -
[5]
Originally by: Merouk Baas 2. You're going to get some skillpoints reimbursed to you. However, if you're training a learning skill from 8000 to 45255 and you're currently at 41023, from what I'm seeing in the character sheet the points don't register as trained until you reach 45255. So you're basically at 8000 until you're at 45255, if that makes sense. So in this scenario I predict you're going to be reimbursed 8000 points for your skill that has 41023 points in it.
Actualy the game knows how many point you have in each skill, you can stop it half way between level and resume it later from where you stop it. All the SP gained its already in the skill. Since the dev blog says "All skillpoints invested in learning skills will be reimbursed, including all the fiddly corner cases." its my understandment that if you have 41023 Sp in a learning skill you will get 41023 reimbursed from that skill.
However I dont think its a ood ideia to have a learning skill, specially a long one in you queue when the time comes, kinda naive if you ask me. The skill will be removed, and you cant train a skill that its not ingame. If you have another skill in the queue MAYBE you start to train this one, however if there is only this learning skill you will end with no valid skill to train and just train nothing.
Off course all that its pure especulative. Use or refuse at your own risk.
_
I like to play this game because it make my in-game actions and archievments to mean something in-game. |
Hooligan Tool
Sebiestor tribe
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Posted - 2010.11.29 23:03:00 -
[6]
If you have only the learning skill in the queue, it will stop training and you will get however many points you have trained into it back. Because you have no other skill in the queue, you will stop training until you are able to log back in.
If you have the learning skill and something else (a non-learning skill) in the queue after it, most likely it will automatically switch to the other and begin training that. Most likely is the key part here. We really don't know.
To be safe: Train a learning skill until you log off before they start the patch that day. Just before logging off, switch to a long non-learning skill.
I will be training a learning skill until about 09:30 EVE time (or earlier if they start the patch earlier) because that's when I have to go to bed. I will switch to Cybernetics V just before logging off. ----- Ambush. Hit and run. Gank before tank. Speed is life. |
Lucy Ditti
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Posted - 2010.11.30 03:40:00 -
[7]
Guess switching to non-learning skills before they get removed is the sensible option to avoid eventually loosing a few skill points due to a sacrilegious interruption of skill training.
*But* in case the queue would gracefully finish up training any queued learning skill until it gets modified, it would mean that there is a yet novel option to squeeze some more SP out of the change.
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Pan Dora
Caldari Perkone
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Posted - 2010.11.30 03:58:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Lucy Ditti *But* in case the queue would gracefully finish up training any queued learning skill until it gets modified, it would mean that there is a yet novel option to squeeze some more SP out of the change.
OCD much? This tiny bit of SP will mean nothing in no time. So if you get a few hour of training time (being generous there) what real advantage you get after a few mounths of training?
Now imagine a scenario where you character get buged because of the invalid skill in queue and you cant play for several days. _
I like to play this game because it make my in-game actions and archievments to mean something in-game. |
Baneken
Gallente School of the Unseen
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Posted - 2010.11.30 06:06:00 -
[9]
Devs have stated numerous times that the dev blog changes are exactly as told and no ifs and no buts; you get full amount of finished skill points from queue if it happens to have a learning skill in progress. If the only skill happens to be a learning skill, your queue stops dead on it's tracks just like it always does when you forget to add more stuff at the end of your queue.
http://desusig.crumplecorn.com/sigs.html |
Melrose Armstrong
Gallente Old Timers Guild Inc.
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Posted - 2010.11.30 06:55:00 -
[10]
I guess I need to ask the dumb question of why bother learning any more of a learning skill (which will go away) when you can be learning something to make your current play more fun and rewarding?
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Jennifer Starling
Amarr
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Posted - 2010.11.30 07:03:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Melrose Armstrong I guess I need to ask the dumb question of why bother learning any more of a learning skill (which will go away) when you can be learning something to make your current play more fun and rewarding?
If your skillspeed when doing learning skills is higher than another skill you want to train, you may as well train a learning skill and redistribute the acquired SP after 14 december.
Say it takes 7 days to train Logic to V at 2,700 SP-hour. Your Heavy Missiles V (also a Rank 3 skill) takes 15 days because you arenŠt remapped for it. It's smart to train Logic V now, transfer the SP to Heavy Missiles and - Profit! - you trained it in 7 days instead of 15!
More about that here.
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Ranka Mei
Caldari
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Posted - 2010.11.30 07:09:00 -
[12]
Now, the real question is: what will happen to any skill in queue? Typically, when you try and do something which might affect your training speed, like clone-jump, you need to either empty your queue or pause it. So, since The Removal will definitely change our training speed, will we have to manually re-activate the queque? Or will CCP do it automagically for the occassion?
I asked the question in the giant 'threatnaught' about the change; but an official answer is yet to come.
Also, were the queue to halt, then making the change somewhere between mid December and January is perhaps a bit ill-timed, as folks go home to visit their parents for the holidays, or go on vacation, etc; and having the queue be in an indeterminate state would not be good. It also means people would have to reserve prettty much the entire patch-day to stay on the ball (assuming this patch day will be like any other major one, in which a dev posts, several times a day, that they're really sorry, but that it's going to take another few hours). --
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Ranka Mei
Caldari
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Posted - 2010.11.30 07:15:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Jennifer Starling
Originally by: Melrose Armstrong I guess I need to ask the dumb question of why bother learning any more of a learning skill (which will go away) when you can be learning something to make your current play more fun and rewarding?
If your skillspeed when doing learning skills is higher than another skill you want to train, you may as well train a learning skill and redistribute the acquired SP after 14 december.
Say it takes 7 days to train Logic to V at 2,700 SP-hour. Your Heavy Missiles V (also a Rank 3 skill) takes 15 days because you arenŠt remapped for it. It's smart to train Logic V now, transfer the SP to Heavy Missiles and - Profit! - you trained it in 7 days instead of 15!
More about that here.
Which is what I'm doing at the moment on an alt. :) I can train Eidetic Memory V faster on her (2673 sp/h, I believe) than anything else. Way I figure this, I'm simply making an extra bu.. sp from the change (and in a perfectly legit manner, mind you). Come the change, I'll cash in that lovely SP batch. --
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Toshiro GreyHawk
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Posted - 2010.11.30 12:23:00 -
[14]
Edited by: Toshiro GreyHawk on 30/11/2010 12:25:11
To comment on the first few posts in this thread ...
Just one point to make about software changes ... no one actually KNOWS what is going to happen. The developers THINK they know what will happen - and probably have a reasonable idea - but that doesn't mean they're right.
No one sets out to create a giant mess ... but giant messes have happened in the past and will happen again in the future. I've seen giant messes that took days to fix caused by one single bit ... I've written code where the order in which some things were calculated made a difference 14 out of 300,000 times ... *sigh*
So ... all you really have here is varying degrees of educated guesses as to what will happen when right in the middle of training a particular skill - that skill is jerked out of existence ... for (potentially) several hundred thousands of accounts ... all at the same time ... for code that may in fact have been embedded in the program for 7 years or more ...
I can tell you for a fact - that anyone who is presumptuous enough to think that they KNOW what is going to happen with absolute certainty ... is either very inexperienced - or should know better than to think that way.
Mostly ... what they do ... is implement their changes ... test it to some degree ... *shrug* and then Hope For The Best!
Then if everything is FUBAR - they dive in and try to fix it ... hoping that they don't make things worse in the process ... which ... on occasion they do.
One factor in all this - is that in Real Time Programming - the length of time an instruction takes to execute matters. This is also the reason it is very important to try and stress test your code. The way the program performs under a light load may have nothing to do with how it performs under a heavy load. Ever note all those appeals for people to show up for the mass tests on Singularity? Well that's what that is all about. Exercising the program changes under load and seeing what happens. The thing is - CCP isn't really going to KNOW what's going to happen until the code goes live - 'cause they sure as hell ain't gettin' no 30,000 people for those tests. (Not to mention that ... I seriously doubt that Singularity could carry the same load as Tranquility ...).
Now ... they could create simulators to test their code under load ... but then those simulators can cost as much to develop as the program they are supporting ... so ... that's not the kind of thing gaming companies do. (Just at they don't have test server hardware platforms that duplicate their live systems). They just let their customers do the final QA. That's a lot cheaper. Just imagine! All these people paying CCP for the privilege of being code testers!
Ha! Ha!
Orbiting vs. Kiting Faction Schools |
blake fallout
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Posted - 2010.11.30 12:43:00 -
[15]
Edited by: blake fallout on 30/11/2010 12:45:01
Originally by: Jennifer Starling
Originally by: Melrose Armstrong I guess I need to ask the dumb question of why bother learning any more of a learning skill (which will go away) when you can be learning something to make your current play more fun and rewarding?
If your skillspeed when doing learning skills is higher than another skill you want to train, you may as well train a learning skill and redistribute the acquired SP after 14 december.
Say it takes 7 days to train Logic to V at 2,700 SP-hour. Your Heavy Missiles V (also a Rank 3 skill) takes 15 days because you arenŠt remapped for it. It's smart to train Logic V now, transfer the SP to Heavy Missiles and - Profit! - you trained it in 7 days instead of 15!
More about that here.
just noticed last night that i could make another 3600 points/hour in learning with it takeing 100 hours to compleat thats an extra 360,000 skill points x 3 =extra 1.08milion points from now -12th than training any other skills.
(in fact it may be a little more since the stats are going up)
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Ranka Mei
Caldari
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Posted - 2010.11.30 12:59:00 -
[16]
Originally by: blake fallout
just noticed last night that i could make another 3600 points/hour in learning with it takeing 100 hours to compleat thats an extra 360,000 skill points x 3 =extra 1.08milion points from now -12th than training any other skills.
(in fact it may be a little more since the stats are going up)
You're so full of it, it's not even funny any more. Nobody trains at 3600 sp/h; not you, not anyone. --
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Chainsaw Plankton
IDLE GUNS IDLE EMPIRE
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Posted - 2010.11.30 12:59:00 -
[17]
I really have no idea, and as such am planning on not having a learning skill in the queue at the time.
worst case imo is say you are training a rank 3 learning skill to 5 (135,765sp->768,000sp) and it is almost done. then ccp drops it from the queue, and only refunds you 135,765sp because it looked like you only had it at level 4.
like I said, I'm playing it safe :paranoid:
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blake fallout
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Posted - 2010.11.30 13:01:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Ranka Mei
Originally by: blake fallout
just noticed last night that i could make another 3600 points/hour in learning with it takeing 100 hours to compleat thats an extra 360,000 skill points x 3 =extra 1.08milion points from now -12th than training any other skills.
(in fact it may be a little more since the stats are going up)
You're so full of it, it's not even funny any more. Nobody trains at 3600 sp/h; not you, not anyone.
calculator dident clear so that was a mistake yes
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Ranka Mei
Caldari
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Posted - 2010.11.30 13:08:00 -
[19]
Edited by: Ranka Mei on 30/11/2010 13:10:39
Originally by: Chainsaw Plankton I really have no idea, and as such am planning on not having a learning skill in the queue at the time.
worst case imo is say you are training a rank 3 learning skill to 5 (135,765sp->768,000sp) and it is almost done. then ccp drops it from the queue, and only refunds you 135,765sp because it looked like you only had it at level 4.
like I said, I'm playing it safe :paranoid:
You shouldn't have to worry about it, really; a dev just clarified the matter again; see link
Originally by: blake fallout
Originally by: Ranka Mei
Originally by: blake fallout
just noticed last night that i could make another 3600 points/hour in learning with it takeing 100 hours to compleat thats an extra 360,000 skill points x 3 =extra 1.08milion points from now -12th than training any other skills.
(in fact it may be a little more since the stats are going up)
You're so full of it, it's not even funny any more. Nobody trains at 3600 sp/h; not you, not anyone.
calculator dident clear so that was a mistake yes
Glad you're back in reality. :) You'll train at 2772 sp/h max, until the time of The Removal. --
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blake fallout
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Posted - 2010.11.30 13:12:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Ranka Mei
Glad you're back in reality. :) You'll train at 2772 sp/h max, until the time of The Removal.
yup <me
i got 2040/h then -2100/h and 2130/h approx for about 60k sp up to the 12th, nothing neer 2772 sp though .
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Jennifer Starling
Amarr
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Posted - 2010.11.30 13:19:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Ranka Mei
Originally by: blake fallout
just noticed last night that i could make another 3600 points/hour in learning with it takeing 100 hours to compleat thats an extra 360,000 skill points x 3 =extra 1.08milion points from now -12th than training any other skills.
(in fact it may be a little more since the stats are going up)
You're so full of it, it's not even funny any more. Nobody trains at 3600 sp/h; not you, not anyone.
I think he wrote an extra 3,600 SP per day, not hour?
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blake fallout
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Posted - 2010.11.30 13:19:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Chainsaw Plankton I really have no idea, and as such am planning on not having a learning skill in the queue at the time.
worst case imo is say you are training a rank 3 learning skill to 5 (135,765sp->768,000sp) and it is almost done. then ccp drops it from the queue, and only refunds you 135,765sp because it looked like you only had it at level 4.
like I said, I'm playing it safe :paranoid:
just swich to another skill just befour they take them off may end up with 600k point in skill and still be training when it happens.
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Ranka Mei
Caldari
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Posted - 2010.11.30 13:21:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Jennifer Starling
Originally by: Ranka Mei
Originally by: blake fallout
just noticed last night that i could make another 3600 points/hour in learning with it takeing 100 hours to compleat thats an extra 360,000 skill points x 3 =extra 1.08milion points from now -12th than training any other skills.
(in fact it may be a little more since the stats are going up)
You're so full of it, it's not even funny any more. Nobody trains at 3600 sp/h; not you, not anyone.
I think he wrote an extra 3,600 SP per day, not hour?
No, he wrote "another 3600 points/hour." But it's all cleared up now. Small calculation error, was all. --
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blake fallout
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Posted - 2010.11.30 13:23:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Jennifer Starling
Originally by: Ranka Mei
Originally by: blake fallout
just noticed last night that i could make another 3600 points/hour in learning with it takeing 100 hours to compleat thats an extra 360,000 skill points x 3 =extra 1.08milion points from now -12th than training any other skills.
(in fact it may be a little more since the stats are going up)
You're so full of it, it's not even funny any more. Nobody trains at 3600 sp/h; not you, not anyone.
I think he wrote an extra 3,600 SP per day, not hour?
by the time i relised hang a sec thats wrong (would have been nice though to get 3600sp/h) also by the time i edited it, ^
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Yime Nsokyi
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Posted - 2010.11.30 13:43:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Ranka Mei
Glad you're back in reality. :) You'll train at 2772 sp/h max, until the time of The Removal.
Unless like me you happen to be in the boosted SP phase of your character and are currently training at c. 3300 sp/hour and are ploughing through as many of the learning skills as possible to use the bonus up before Dec 14th! Unfortunately i don't think i'll be able to get all the way to Eidetic Memory V finished in time, it'll be very close if I can... (not near evemon at the moment so can't be exact!)
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Pan Dora
Caldari Perkone
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Posted - 2010.11.30 13:46:00 -
[26]
lemesee...suposing best case scenario:
-max speed at learning skill -last oportunity to change skill queue let you put a long skill at end and close to 24h of <fast learning skill> -no bugs
2772 sp/hx24h = 66528 sp minus the SP I wold get in 24h training the <slow training speed skill i put my learning SP in>
conclusion: meh!
_
I like to play this game because it make my in-game actions and archievments to mean something in-game. |
Ranka Mei
Caldari
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Posted - 2010.11.30 13:48:00 -
[27]
Originally by: Yime Nsokyi
Originally by: Ranka Mei
Glad you're back in reality. :) You'll train at 2772 sp/h max, until the time of The Removal.
Unless like me you happen to be in the boosted SP phase of your character and are currently training at c. 3300 sp/hour and are ploughing through as many of the learning skills as possible to use the bonus up before Dec 14th! Unfortunately i don't think i'll be able to get all the way to Eidetic Memory V finished in time, it'll be very close if I can... (not near evemon at the moment so can't be exact!)
I didn't even know you could get to 3300 sp/h so fast, within the 1.6mil 2x training barrier! I guess it is, if you didn't train anything else. Kudos on you for a plan well executed. :) --
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Yime Nsokyi
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Posted - 2010.11.30 13:57:00 -
[28]
iirc you can hit c. 4100 sp/hr for a short period before the boosted SP runs out. Evemon can confirm this though! (and not like it's going to be usefull information to have in 14 days time!)
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Lucy Ditti
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Posted - 2010.11.30 16:58:00 -
[29]
Originally by: CCP Prism X
Originally by: Ranka Mei Since you're answering questions, perhaps you'd be willing to answer this one too? :)
Geez, I actually cannot find the answer to that question. Seems like a fairly important detail to let slip.
Your skill queue will be reordered for you to ensure that people who do not log in the minute after the server comes up do not lose any training time.
In the case of a learning skill being your skill in training the next skill in queue will start with his start time registered uniformly for all altered records. That is your place in the scripts execution will not infer any advantage in training. If your skill in training is not a learning skill its start time will not be affected. If the only skill in your queue is a learning skill you'll end up with an empty queue after reimbursment.
The end time of your entire queue has to be recalculated as your attributes have changed. This will restecp your active clone implants of course. Paused queues are paused and left as such.
So to go for optimal SP gain (I guess, haven't really put much thought into this) you should set a learning skill in training with the maximal possible sp/hour for your character, ensure there's time for another skill in there (or switch before DT) so that once the learning skill is removed that skill will start training as of it's removal and then spend all your points on a skill with your worst attributes in it maximizing your sp/hour gain for the whole shebang and losing no training.
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