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Owledge
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Posted - 2010.12.05 21:26:00 -
[1]
Maybe I'm missing something, being a newbie. In that case, please clarify. In any case...
Yesterday I tried out salvaging, as a somewhat more interesting (if less lucrative) alternative to mining. But there's what frustrates me a bit and is also kind of unrealistic:
I do a 360¦ max range scan with my on-board ship scanner. (!) It detects dozens of delicious mission-spawned wrecks. So it detects wrecks and even shows me the details, and it wouldn't be bad if I slvaged them, because salvage is free from ownership. But... I can't get there, because not even with many probes roaming the system I can detect those wrecks that appear on my on-board scanner.
Players told me I would have to track the mission-runner. OK, so what I would have to do is be lucky catching someone who just arrived at the mission area so he will stay there long enough for my arduous probe scanning efforts to get a 100% signal strength on his ship. And then, how do I know I'm scanning down the right ship, when I only learn what type of ship it is once I've already done a lot of focused scanning.
Now, considering that it is already somewhat complicated to scan down a location, wouldn't it be fair to make this whole thing easier? Even if all I would have to do is scan a fixed mass of wrecks down to 100% (cosmic signature style), in the time it would take me to just find them, I could alresady have made a lot more ISK with a lot less effort doing mining than what I'll probably get from the wrecks. Not that I'm only thinking in terms of ISK, but its is one factor to consider. So how are salvagers supposed to keep space clean when they can'T get to the junk? All I'm saying is that salvaging could be made a lot more fun. Right now, you have to accompany someone or make your own salvage, while I can imagine being somewhat of a loner roaming the universe and 'taking out the trash' would be an attractive EVE profession.
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Valandril
Caldari Ex-Mortis
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Posted - 2010.12.05 21:45:00 -
[2]
If probing is too hard for you, go play wow.
Recruit me if you dare |
Kassa Daito
Capital Construction Research Pioneer Alliance
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Posted - 2010.12.05 22:20:00 -
[3]
Edited by: Kassa Daito on 05/12/2010 22:20:40 I would like to see this for the highsec salvagers but I fear it would make lowsec and nullsec missions far too difficult for their rewards.
Whatever helps salvagers find wrecks can also help pirates find wrecks. ** Disclaimer: Author sometimes spell checks but is not responsible for sins of commission, omission, emission, transmission, or submission. Flowers, bricks, or any other form of feedback appreciated |
Herping yourDerp
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Posted - 2010.12.05 22:38:00 -
[4]
no, ninja salvaging is pretty lame but part of the game, if anything it should be harder to find missioner wrecks.. BUT maybe if a wreck is no longer in deadspace after 1 hour it can be scanned with simple scanners. some missioners just blitz, others loot, if u just blitz then there salvage should be easier to find
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Owledge
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Posted - 2010.12.05 23:29:00 -
[5]
I assumed the percentage of people salvaging after a fight mission is very low. Maybe that's different between high- and lowsec. Or maybe different between PvE and PvP fights. Anyway, I just think it would be nice if the profession of the salvager weren't so much like an appendage to a fighter squad, if you know what I mean. And from what I've read from CCP about that, this is the intention and also the very reason why there's a personal claim system on loot, but not on salvage.
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Adunh Slavy
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Posted - 2010.12.06 00:20:00 -
[6]
Edited by: Adunh Slavy on 06/12/2010 00:20:26 Here's an idea. go talk to an agent, get a mission, shoot the rats, and wow, salvage, and no probes needed.
I do agree that wrecks should be findable on probes, but not until those wrecks are abandoned. And, wrecks that are not abandoned, switch to an abandoned state after the standard 2 hours time in which they, in the current implementation, vanish. Then, after two hours as abandoned, then they vanish for good.
The Real Space Initiative - V6 (Forum Link)
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Woodman57
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Posted - 2010.12.06 01:15:00 -
[7]
Get better with combat probes so you are able to find the mish ships, and you could also ask mish runners if you can salvage their mish, some will even abandon the wrecks for you so you can take the loot also.
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Corina Jarr
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Posted - 2010.12.06 01:47:00 -
[8]
Or, you follow a bunch of hulks around in several belts (in more than one system) and salvage the rat wrecks. You can make a decent amount.
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Owledge
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Posted - 2010.12.06 02:41:00 -
[9]
@Corina I make a much more decent amount with my Retriever barge. There are too few rat wrecks in belts to make it interesting, considering that many don't yield anything or just very cheap stuff. And there I didn't even notice a significant difference between 0.8 and 0.5 rats.
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Syllein
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Posted - 2010.12.06 13:35:00 -
[10]
Edited by: Syllein on 06/12/2010 13:39:54 1.Use D-scan to locate mission ship. Narrow down range and direction if you feel like it. 2. Drop probes on probable location of mission ship. 3. Warp to hit. 4(a) Salvage. 4(b) request permission from mission runner to salvage stuff (if you want to play nice) 5. Profit.
Probing out mission runners is so easy it's not even funny. You may want to spend a little time practising with your probes+ d-scan if you are having trouble with this. Combining D-scan and probes is not really essential, but is good practice for if/ when you ever decide to start PvP'ing and are interested in being a scout.
Asking to salvage is also not required, however you may find you make a few contacts who will start offering you their bookmarks in exchange for a cut of the salvage (which they otherwise were intending to ignore).
Another option is to advertise your salvaging "service" in local. Offer a reasonable share for clearing out other peoples debris, and/ or RP it up a little. Occasionally works, guess even mission runners can have a soft spot for a "cute" little RP'er |
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Jai Di
Caldari
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Posted - 2010.12.06 15:31:00 -
[11]
I've been running a 'mobile' salvage service for a few weeks now and while it really isn't that profitable, I find it quite fun.
I split my time between running through belts, probing missioners (and waiting for them to finish) and offering to clean up the trash for others (and split the loot [not salvage]).
I've made quite a bit of money doing this, though no where near as much as I would have if I ran level 4's the whole time, I get to spend time in my new favorite ship, the Noctis.
Also, a few tech 2 small smartbombs take out belt rats in quiet systems, if you don't want to keep swapping ships :)
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Alara IonStorm
Agent-Orange Nabaal Syndicate
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Posted - 2010.12.06 16:00:00 -
[12]
Edited by: Alara IonStorm on 06/12/2010 16:16:51 I tried being a Ninja once and ran into the same issue. I quit after only scanning down one mission runner in 25min. About 2 month later I decided on exploration and learned everything I could about scanning and spent 3 months doing exploration because I learned how to scan.
First you need skills.
Frigate IV for your Scan Ship. Use one of the 4 Racial Scan ships. Astrometrics IV for access to better skills. Astrometric Rangefinding III to improve scan strength. Astrometic Pinpointing III to increase accuracy. Jury Rigging to gain access to the Gravity Capacitor Upgrade
Next setting up a Scan Ship.
[Imicus, New Setup 1] [empty low slot] [empty low slot]
[empty med slot] [empty med slot]
Expanded Probe Launcher I, Sisters Combat Scanner Probe I Prototype Cloaking Device
Small Gravity Capacitor Upgrade I Small Gravity Capacitor Upgrade I [empty rig slot]
All that is needed for your ship. The Grav Caps Increase Scan Strength as well as the ship bonus. The Sisters Scan Probes also do the same.
Thats the skills and equipment lets get down to the method.
Everyone has there own way of scaning but here is mine. Once you see the target warp off, warp to the sun and open your Solar System map. Drop a Probe and size it to 32 AU. You will get a hit on everything in range. find one in the direction your target warped(If it isn't him then just Salvie the new guy).
Put your Probe over the sig and resize to 8 AU. Drop 4 more and make a cross around him so they overlap. Scan again a move the group to where the new sig appears. Shrink the probes range and continue. The fastest I have ever scaned a Sig is about 1 and a half minutes. Though there are players way better then me, who can do it in under 30 seconds.
As soon as you get a hit go get your Salvage Frigate to go say Hi. It seems hard but once you have had a bit of practice in the right ship with close to a week of training you can do it easy.
As for profit Ammar Space has Sansha/Blood Missions and they produce armor plates, these are worth 2-300000ISK each and are in abundence. It is profitable from Cruiser-Battleship sized wrecks and there is plenty of other Salvage worth quite a bit.
-- I can not decide on a sig yet.
Under Construction.
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Owledge
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Posted - 2010.12.06 16:45:00 -
[13]
Thanks. I will try those things. I guess the most frustrating part right now is to identify a mission-running ship in the first place. Probably have to watch whether it warps away from the system's orbit axis. I assume most mission areas are above or below that. (?)
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Mimiru Minahiro
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Posted - 2010.12.06 16:54:00 -
[14]
Filtering probe results will dramatically reduce your scanning time in busy systems.
You are in a busy mission system right?
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Owledge
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Posted - 2010.12.06 17:28:00 -
[15]
Edited by: Owledge on 06/12/2010 17:29:31 Filtering is difficult when I can't even roughly determine whether a signature is at one or the other end of the system at first or what is what. I gues it boils down to: Without investing many days in increasind the skill levels, I shouldn't even begin. Alara, what I don't quite understand is this: From your description it sounds like I can detect the position of a ship with just one probe, but doesn't that only give me a distance information? Or does it only work that way with the survey probes? I think I'll have to check that.
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Alara IonStorm
Agent-Orange Nabaal Syndicate
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Posted - 2010.12.06 17:40:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Owledge Filtering is difficult when I can't even roughly determine whether a signature is at one or the other end of the system at first or what is what. I gues it boils down to: Without investing many days in increasind the skill levels, I shouldn't even begin. Alara, what I don't quite understand is this: From your description it sounds like I can detect the position of a ship with just one probe, but doesn't that only give me a distance information? Or does it only work that way with the survey probes? I think I'll have to check that.
With ok skills in the proper ship one probe will give you a rough estimation of where all ships are in the system.
You then pick one and begine from there. always focus on what has the strongest %. Chances are it is a Battleship and that means mission runner. As you continue to shrink the porbes and the % increases while the area of your probing shinks. I can not stress enough how inportant the skills and equipment is to making Scaning easier.
The stronger the strength of your probe and pinpoint skill the more accurate the area the result will apear and from there it is easy to focus in on that one spot. Keep moving the sizes down and positioning over the Mark and you will get your hit.
But without the skills to increase strength and accuracy you will have very little luck finding and pinpointing the sig.
-- I can not decide on a sig yet.
Under Construction.
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Themoran
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Posted - 2010.12.06 18:36:00 -
[17]
The current mechanic requires you to scan down the missioner, which is fine UNTIL he turns in the mission, then the wrecks should become scanable until they decay normally. This allows the mission runner to switch ships and do his own salvage so long as no one scans him down, and gives the salvagers a chance once the mission is turned in. The long mission completion times give the missioner plenty of time to salvage before turning in.
This makes turning in approximately equivalent to abandoning, and actually makes the salvagers that do not scan down the missioner work harder because each pocket in the mission will become a new temporary signature to be scanned down when the mission is turned in. Of course the signature will disappear when all the wrecks decay or have been salvaged.
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Widemouth Deepthroat
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Posted - 2010.12.06 18:39:00 -
[18]
Most mission take at least 10minutes to complete which is plenty of time to scan down a battleship with below average skills.
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Themoran
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Posted - 2010.12.06 19:04:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Widemouth Deepthroat Most mission take at least 10minutes to complete which is plenty of time to scan down a battleship with below average skills.
True, but once turned in, the signatures generated for the pockets could be the instant 100% type thus making the salvagers life easier once the missioniner has "abandoned" the mission wrecks. Would also be interesting seeing 20-30 salvage ships all pop into a pocket at once to squabble over the wrecks in places like Motsu !!
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Fried'chickenisha
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Posted - 2010.12.06 21:43:00 -
[20]
Stopped reading after (delicious mission-spawned wrecks) I think you need some delicious scanning skills and some delicious reading up on the subject.
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Joe Starbreaker
M. Corp
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Posted - 2010.12.06 22:02:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Owledge Players told me I would have to track the mission-runner. OK, so what I would have to do is be lucky catching someone who just arrived at the mission area so he will stay there long enough for my arduous probe scanning efforts to get a 100% signal strength on his ship. And then, how do I know I'm scanning down the right ship, when I only learn what type of ship it is once I've already done a lot of focused scanning.
So, how much worse would it be to probe anything if every darned wreck in the game ALSO appeared as a cosmic signature? Probing would be impossible. The solution to your problem is simple: work on your probing and get better. If you'd spent two or three evenings working on this, you'd already be a pro, and there'd be no problem for this solution.
Hints: Set up your probes in the configuration you want, then hold down SHIFT as you move them... that way they all move together. In a crowded system you don't even need to start at long range and adjust to close range... just start at close range and move them around a lot, scanning until you hit something. By the way, all you need to look for are battleships. And they do stick around L4 missions for a significant amount of time, up to an hour for the less-skilled pilots in the most difficult missions.
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