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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 63 post(s) |
Bhattran
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Posted - 2010.12.17 21:18:00 -
[391]
Originally by: Durnin Stormbrow Edited by: Durnin Stormbrow on 17/12/2010 19:11:40
Originally by: Mernek
Originally by: Rasz Lin
CCP doesn't sell ISK, they sell PLEX. They will sell isk if/when they convert to micro transaction model.
Bold part is a bit naive. RL cash --> GTC --> PLEX --> ISK is CCP selling isk, it's just got some extra steps so some smart arse lawyer doesn't start clamoring for us to start paying tax on our isk irl.
CCP isn't selling isk. They're selling something that can be exchanged for isk through a self balancing game mechanic.
The differences may be subtle but they are important, and not only for the reason you offered:
1st Isk is not created by the transaction, which would dilute the value of isk; fueling inflation and the need for still more isk. The isk exchanged for the plex already exists within the game and is owned by another player.
2nd By trading plex across a player market, there is no fixed $$$ to isk ratio. If plex for isk becomes too popular, you get fewer isk for your RL money. If grind to play becomes too popular, then it costs progressively more isk to play.
I wouldn't phrase it as Mernek did but in essence CCP is selling isk, because the transaction happens the exact same way as someone paying $ to a RMT to get isk from another party the 'farmer'. The isk used to purchase a PLEX in game is made in nearly every way that the isk made to sell to another player for $ is at no time do RMT magically create isk from thin air on their own, CCP's progam does that when farmed by bots/macros. The only exception to the two methods is stealing isk from other accounts, it can and probably does happen when used for PLEX in the cases of corp theft, or for people who share login info etc but isn't significant compared to RMT operators who go after account data and try to see if people use the same info across communities/sites as their EVE account.
The difference we 'hope' between the two is that the isk made to buy plex is done so w/o bots/macros but we don't know since CCP seems not to be interested in making it harder for people who use bots/macros they are more interested in the accounts who sell isk, however it is made, for real money. And we hope the $ that CCP gets goes to bettering EVE and CCP so they are 'strong' to do what needs to be done, but once CCP gets your money or mine they can and will do whatever the **** they want with it, from getting into the console market, looking at making EVE f2p with micro-transactions or making a vampire game.
--WIS/Incarna/Ambulation where microtransactions come to play, and uh bars.-- |
Pan Crastus
Anti-Metagaming League
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Posted - 2010.12.17 21:33:00 -
[392]
Hm, the dev blog basically confirms that CCP is only fighting RMT, not botting. That's sad.
Quote:
ISK is sold because people buy it. Players do business with the RMT element and that is why accounts are hacked, asteroid belts are sucked up by bots and it is why we find ourselves in our current situation.
Sorry to say, but belts are sucked up by bots just as much, if not more, because people want free ISK to get ahead in the game or to buy PLEX.
CCP could reduce the impact of botting without annoying players too much buy imposing a limit on the time spent mining or ratting per day. Very few sane people can or should mine/rat/mission more than 3-4 hours/day while bots do it 23/7. It takes some thought to work out how to implement such limits (for mining it's easy), but it should be done ...
How to PVP: 1. buy ISK with GTCs, 2. fit cloak, learn aggro mechanics, 3. buy second account for metagaming
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Baudolino
Gallente Royal Crimson Lancers
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Posted - 2010.12.17 22:41:00 -
[393]
Edited by: Baudolino on 17/12/2010 22:41:10 OP shamelessly copied and pasted a monologue from the movie V for Vendetta.
The text is from the scene when V hijacks Britains national television signal to promote a national resistance on Guy Fawkes day - 5th November..
At least come up with something of your own- punk..
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Lenore Leelu
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Posted - 2010.12.18 01:20:00 -
[394]
Originally by: Eyeama Spy ccp are tackling the bot problem in 2 ways, the first is the xmas present on 14th dec...its an afk cloaked ship in every system in eve online 24/7, the second is incursions, which will target all high sec ice belt systems with reduced resists, sansha bombers to kill the bots in belts and gate camps on the exits. Merry xmas and a happy new year
Uh oh, how will CCP/Sansha know who is a botter compared to my team of 3 macinaws and an orca legitimately mining (and generally being controlled by people all in the same room eating doritos)(ok the orca will be an alt, but definitely not macroed)?
And I dont understand the cloaked ship thing you're talking about.
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Dirk Swan
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Posted - 2010.12.18 06:39:00 -
[395]
Just in case you macro users missed this article.
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Professor Tarantula
Hedion University
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Posted - 2010.12.18 06:50:00 -
[396]
Originally by: Baudolino Edited by: Baudolino on 17/12/2010 22:41:10 OP shamelessly copied and pasted a monologue from the movie V for Vendetta.
The text is from the scene when V hijacks Britains national television signal to promote a national resistance on Guy Fawkes day - 5th November..
At least come up with something of your own- punk..
Good eye.
My Warmest Regards. Prof. Tarantula, Esq. |
Bhattran
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Posted - 2010.12.18 06:57:00 -
[397]
Edited by: Bhattran on 18/12/2010 06:59:12
Originally by: Professor Tarantula
Originally by: Baudolino Edited by: Baudolino on 17/12/2010 22:41:10 OP shamelessly copied and pasted a monologue from the movie V for Vendetta.
The text is from the scene when V hijacks Britains national television signal to promote a national resistance on Guy Fawkes day - 5th November..
At least come up with something of your own- punk..
Good eye.
Not really, nearly 2 weeks later and someone thought enough to post about it, I noticed that fact when I first saw this but thought the discussion, given the context, was worth more than a movie reference at least to me.
EDITED TO ADD: Rian O'Shea beat him to it with an image link regarding the Movie.
--WIS/Incarna/Ambulation where microtransactions come to play, and uh bars.-- |
SweetHoney
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Posted - 2010.12.18 08:51:00 -
[398]
Edited by: SweetHoney on 18/12/2010 08:56:05 I did not read it all the pages but I just leave this article here
http://evenews24.com/2010/12/08/rmt-uncovered-the-interview Linkage |
Cyaxares II
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Posted - 2010.12.18 10:57:00 -
[399]
Originally by: SweetHoney Edited by: SweetHoney on 18/12/2010 08:56:05 I did not read it all the pages but I just leave this article here
http://evenews24.com/2010/12/08/rmt-uncovered-the-interview Linkage
that series of articles (and the thread on the forum that must not be named that sparked this series) led to the creation of this thread in the first place. ^^
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Meridian Siri
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Posted - 2010.12.18 23:48:00 -
[400]
I had heard that CSM was meeting with CCP and that macroing was an issue that was on the agenda. Does anyone know when this is going to occur or have any links to information on said meeting?
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Dante Marcellus
Minmatar Belligerent Underpayed Tactical Team
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Posted - 2010.12.19 00:02:00 -
[401]
I AM FEED UP AS WELL.
I just had taco bell. <<<< PaxCorpus This wasn't the road home -- This was a road littered with questions that would inevitably lead to an answer. |
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CCP Sreegs
C C P C C P Alliance
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Posted - 2010.12.19 01:10:00 -
[402]
Hey guys, just wanted to say I'm seeing a lot of conversation here about us not caring or not doing anything about this particular subject and I wanted to affirm that it's a subject that's very near and dear to my heart. This isn't a subject that's being ignored in ANY WAY, and it's actually something I personally take umbrage with.
I understand how one can feel a certain way based on their personal perceptions, but I can also say with some degree of authority that this is no way a subject that's being ignored in the least. |
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Aessoroz
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Posted - 2010.12.19 01:21:00 -
[403]
Edited by: Aessoroz on 19/12/2010 01:21:35
Originally by: CCP Sreegs Hey guys, just wanted to say I'm seeing a lot of conversation here about us not caring or not doing anything about this particular subject and I wanted to affirm that it's a subject that's very near and dear to my heart. This isn't a subject that's being ignored in ANY WAY, and it's actually something I personally take umbrage with.
I understand how one can feel a certain way based on their personal perceptions, but I can also say with some degree of authority that this is no way a subject that's being ignored in the least.
O really? Have you been to Ingunn in the last 3 months? There's at least 200 macro industrials passing through it per hour and it's freaking low sec.
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Janos Saal
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Posted - 2010.12.19 01:42:00 -
[404]
*posting without reading the thread*
If bots are so prevalent and easily identifiable as you people say, why not roll up some alts and form a corp that does nothing but kill botters? Hell, make an event out of it - Bottergeddon.
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Jojo Jackson
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Posted - 2010.12.19 01:57:00 -
[405]
Edited by: Jojo Jackson on 19/12/2010 01:57:49
Originally by: Pan Crastus Hm, the dev blog basically confirms that CCP is only fighting RMT, not botting. That's sad.
Quote:
ISK is sold because people buy it. Players do business with the RMT element and that is why accounts are hacked, asteroid belts are sucked up by bots and it is why we find ourselves in our current situation.
Sorry to say, but belts are sucked up by bots just as much, if not more, because people want free ISK to get ahead in the game or to buy PLEX.
CCP could reduce the impact of botting without annoying players too much buy imposing a limit on the time spent mining or ratting per day. Very few sane people can or should mine/rat/mission more than 3-4 hours/day while bots do it 23/7. It takes some thought to work out how to implement such limits (for mining it's easy), but it should be done ...
Then they have to limit the time player can spent in PvP too or how often they can scan the market or how many jumps a hauler can make peer day.
Stupid sugestion.
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capn gump
ElitistOps Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2010.12.19 02:07:00 -
[406]
Originally by: CCP Sreegs Hey guys, we banned Karttoon so no need to ban anyone else
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lol internets
North Eastern Swat Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2010.12.19 02:08:00 -
[407]
Originally by: CCP Sreegs Hey guys, just wanted to say I'm seeing a lot of conversation here about us not caring or not doing anything about this particular subject and I wanted to affirm that it's a subject that's very near and dear to my heart. This isn't a subject that's being ignored in ANY WAY, and it's actually something I personally take umbrage with.
I understand how one can feel a certain way based on their personal perceptions, but I can also say with some degree of authority that this is no way a subject that's being ignored in the least.
If that is the case then please explain to me the reasons you have not freed karttoon?
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CapnKellTainer
54th Massachusetts Volunteer Infantry Kugutsumen.
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Posted - 2010.12.19 02:47:00 -
[408]
Originally by: Janos Saal *posting without reading the thread*
If bots are so prevalent and easily identifiable as you people say, why not roll up some alts and form a corp that does nothing but kill botters? Hell, make an event out of it - Bottergeddon.
Bots read local and will log off/warp to a safespot if a neut or red enters local.
You could do this, but only if every 0.0 system had a cloaky ship there 23/7.
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Elzon1
Caldari Shadow Boys Corp Without Remorse.
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Posted - 2010.12.19 02:49:00 -
[409]
Originally by: CCP Sreegs Hey guys, just wanted to say I'm seeing a lot of conversation here about us not caring or not doing anything about this particular subject and I wanted to affirm that it's a subject that's very near and dear to my heart. This isn't a subject that's being ignored in ANY WAY, and it's actually something I personally take umbrage with.
I understand how one can feel a certain way based on their personal perceptions, but I can also say with some degree of authority that this is no way a subject that's being ignored in the least.
Interesting, so what sort of game mechanic changes/additions does CCP plan to inact to slow down botting?
Will CCP finally balance isk creation with isk destruction (increasing isk production with an increase in trade proportionately as an exception of course)?
When will the next set of CSM minutes be out on discussion of botting and rmt?
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Rasz Lin
Caldari Caldari Provisions
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Posted - 2010.12.19 03:54:00 -
[410]
Originally by: CCP Sreegs Hey guys, just wanted to say I'm seeing a lot of conversation here about us not caring or not doing anything about this particular subject and I wanted to affirm that it's a subject that's very near and dear to my heart. This isn't a subject that's being ignored in ANY WAY, and it's actually something I personally take umbrage with.
I understand how one can feel a certain way based on their personal perceptions, but I can also say with some degree of authority that this is no way a subject that's being ignored in the least.
Subject is RTM _and_ botting. We know you care about RTM as it is competing with PLEX revenue, we also know you do not ban bots.
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Pan Crastus
Anti-Metagaming League
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Posted - 2010.12.19 04:55:00 -
[411]
Originally by: Jojo Jackson Then they have to limit the time player can spent in PvP too or how often they can scan the market or how many jumps a hauler can make peer day.
Why do they have to limit the time spent in PVP? Please explain. Just because it "sounds the same" isn't a good reason.
As for accessing the market - good idea, market botting is very common too.
How to PVP: 1. buy ISK with GTCs, 2. fit cloak, learn aggro mechanics, 3. buy second account for metagaming
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Miss President
Caldari SOLARIS ASTERIUS
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Posted - 2010.12.19 05:51:00 -
[412]
EVE is a source of income for CCP, only in case where CCP starts to suffer financially, it will assign a full task force with x-amount of employees, until than (CCP starts losing income), it will only put a few people in charge, without necessary means and methods to really do anything. What we're seeing here is a lame excuse, just to make believe something is getting done.
No offense to CCP folks who were assigned the tasks to deal with RMT/MACROS/BOTTERS, but until higher up CCP management decides that you need to get something accomplished you're not really getting far. It's not the matter of your dedication and what you believe.
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Opertone
Caldari Deep Core Mining Inc.
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Posted - 2010.12.19 08:15:00 -
[413]
you can declare war on bots...
but killing bots does not generate enough resources, obviously. If only bots provided enough trophies to keep on killing more bots.
As I imagine, they would bribe you and give you 500 mill isk to leave them in peace, would you resist that?
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Cyaxares II
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Posted - 2010.12.19 08:22:00 -
[414]
Originally by: CCP Sreegs Hey guys, just wanted to say I'm seeing a lot of conversation here about us not caring or not doing anything about this particular subject and I wanted to affirm that it's a subject that's very near and dear to my heart. This isn't a subject that's being ignored in ANY WAY, and it's actually something I personally take umbrage with.
I understand how one can feel a certain way based on their personal perceptions, but I can also say with some degree of authority that this is no way a subject that's being ignored in the least.
forums: CCP doesn't care.
single dev: but I care!
Yes, it makes sense that CCP's Security Administrator would care about RMT (and by extension botting) - anything else would actually be quite shocking considering that botting & RMT can both be related to the problem of account theft.
and "not ignoring" a problem is not the same as "working hard on a solution to that problem".
=> it's nice to know you care, sadly from what we know you don't seem to have the discretionary power to make any decisions on assigning significant company resources to this effort/taking the risk of instantly losing a big chunk of revenue from account bans.
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Keta Fraal
Nul and Booleans
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Posted - 2010.12.19 09:09:00 -
[415]
Originally by: Jaqel Broadside
Actually if the account was verified and traceable then no fraud would be possible at all.
Buying characters by what so ever means just promotes fraudulant activities.
All character sales should be banned - they should be terminated and that's it.
All accounts should be paid for by CASH via accepted means - any payment method which cannot be verified should be disabled.
Quite frankly if this situation isnt sorted the people who do pay for the game will leave.
I know because that is on the cards for accounts I pay as it will be for anyone else who realises they could do something more valuable with their time.
There are no excuses any more,,, none what so ever.
There is NO reason to even have these high ISK value NPCs at stastic sites,, neither is there a reason to have shpis like the Raven that dont require human input to survive.
A radical rething is needed to stop this process now or there will be no game.
I really dislike that part of human nature that loves being a cop, and where some of you draw your lines are extreme.
"A radical rething is needed to stop this process now or there will be no game."
What?! ...what? --------------------------------------- Completely ignore any whining that is not toilet orientated. |
mechtech
Deep Core Mining Inc.
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Posted - 2010.12.19 09:26:00 -
[416]
Originally by: CCP Sreegs Hey guys, just wanted to say I'm seeing a lot of conversation here about us not caring or not doing anything about this particular subject and I wanted to affirm that it's a subject that's very near and dear to my heart. This isn't a subject that's being ignored in ANY WAY, and it's actually something I personally take umbrage with.
I understand how one can feel a certain way based on their personal perceptions, but I can also say with some degree of authority that this is no way a subject that's being ignored in the least.
That's good to hear, I have a couple questions though.
When is the client injection being patched? If you aren't able to answer that, are you at least aware that the most advanced bots use client injection, and are you working on making the client more secure from outside code? I'm not a botter nor a bot designer, so forgive me if my questions are a bit ignorant, but from taking a cursory look around it looks like the top bots are much "closer to metal" than should be allowed, due to presumably a lack of security in the client.
I do know that the source code leaked a few years ago, so that might be making the job harder (?).
What about a Warden/Punkbuster style program? Keep in mind there would be some community backlash, but this is very standard for MMOs, and even FPSs to implement to stop cheating. I think that an anti-cheat process that runs separately from the game, even a simple one, would make it much tougher to macro. The simple macros are basically recorded mouse movement, and the advanced ones use client injection. Both of these can be patched or detected much more easily if you have an anti-cheat process running outside of the client code.
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Geanos
Phoenix Tribe
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Posted - 2010.12.19 09:48:00 -
[417]
For Christ sake, enough with this bull**** already. I've had enough with that attention seeking troll, with his "RMT confessions" crap and with this poor RL copy of a hysteria induced campaign.
What do you expect from CCP? Details about what they are going to do with the client? Or the exact date of the future mass ban action? Yeah, not good, right?
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Keta Fraal
Nul and Booleans
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Posted - 2010.12.19 10:32:00 -
[418]
No thank you to "Warden" and No to "Punkbuster".
I don't want anything cluttering my memory.
If you sorry chaps really are hurt by people mining 23.5/24 hrs than make it less of a grind and more along the lines of active decision making (the way PVP is active and intense). Use your imaginations.
Mining is a grind and i do hope that somewhere in our distant future (circa 2424 A.D.) there is a way to automate it. So let's not get all up tight about it going on in eve. The only ones who should be ****ed about botting are those who mine or mission or what-not and figure their edge in isk-making is that they can handle boring grinding and it's in their interest to protect that advantage.
But instead of being angry, instead of adding to the complexity by creating more rules, try solving the problem by consensus.
It's not so serious that it's game-breaking. You should see some of the games out there; where players are walking through solid walls and unlimited HP and so on... I understand how we don't want to get anywhere near that kind of problem, but change the game away from the ugly grinds so the only ones botting are the ones who get caught RMT'ing.
I'm only posting because I don't want to let some of the suggestions I read get adopted in game.
Here is the botter's loophole in the EULA, under CONDUCT-A-3.:
3. You may not use macros or other stored rapid keystrokes or other patterns of play that facilitate acquisition of items, currency, objects, character attributes, rank or status at an accelerated rate when compared with ordinary Game play. You may not rewrite or modify the user interface or otherwise manipulate data in any way to acquire items, currency, objects, character attributes or beneficial actions not actually acquired or achieved in the Game.
--------------------------------------- Completely ignore any whining that is not toilet orientated. |
Shiptoaster
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Posted - 2010.12.19 11:36:00 -
[419]
Botting has long since been legal in eve. RMT is not however. You get ISK deducted from your wallet and could be in the negative when you RMT
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Shiptoaster
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Posted - 2010.12.19 11:40:00 -
[420]
Edited by: Shiptoaster on 19/12/2010 11:40:16
Originally by: Keta Fraal No thank you to "Warden" and No to "Punkbuster".
I don't want anything cluttering my memory.
minging bots blargh i'm stupid blargh
lol u stupid mining botter, there are ratting bots to you know. no one is gonna read your post
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