Pages: 1 [2] 3 :: one page |
|
Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 0 post(s) |
Dav Varan
|
Posted - 2010.12.07 11:22:00 -
[31]
Originally by: Nischara i vote no to losing my mega to a solo rifter every time
frigates are immune to damage from big ships enough, and ships biger than frigates often have cap boosters so this proposal is not about them
also, statisticaly this is the worst proposal EVER all those reads and replys and not a single support yet
If youd lose mega's to rifters without heavy nos you probably are not qualified to be posting in this thread.
Hey my threads are allways popular. Not expecting much support tbh. Too many people like things the way they are. Doesnt mean it makes for the best possible game.
I always consider striving for mixed fleet neccessity as good game design.
People complain about Battleships online / Capitals Online / Super Capitals online. But when someone points out a way to make small ships more viable the answer is allways Waaahhhh your dumb my X ship is much bigger and expensive it should be invinsible to small ****e. Go Figure.
|
The Djego
Minmatar Hellequin Inc.
|
Posted - 2010.12.07 11:57:00 -
[32]
Edited by: The Djego on 07/12/2010 12:01:23
Originally by: Dav Varan BS are not supposed to be roaming around hostile space unsupported.
Anything smaller than a BS is supposed to die a quick and painfull death fighting a BS.
See what I did here? ---- Nerf Tank - Boost Gank!
Originally by: Amantus Real men don't need to get into blaster range.
|
Dav Varan
|
Posted - 2010.12.07 12:03:00 -
[33]
Originally by: The Djego Edited by: The Djego on 07/12/2010 12:01:23
Originally by: Dav Varan BS are not supposed to be roaming around hostile space unsupported.
Anything smaller than a BS is supposed to die a quick and painfull death fighting a BS.
See what I did here?
Taking your argument to its logical conslusion.
When every player in eve is flying a Titan the csm/ccp will have achived a perfectly balanced game ?
|
Hirana Yoshida
Behavioral Affront
|
Posted - 2010.12.07 12:19:00 -
[34]
The "one slot" argument you keep spewing is flawed.
Passive recharge is enough to run tackle and range/speed takes care of tanking .. drones are a non-issue as they can be popped quite quickly.
BS with a heavy neut will die to a full tackle frig if alone and frigate pilot is skilled/experienced. Period. ONLY exception is laser/hybrid boats which cannot apply dps+tackle even if neut is heavy unless fitted for it (cap relay does wonders on a frig). Travel 15km while webbed/scrammed and you'll be bleeding badly by the time you make it to jump range. Get caught away from gate or station and pray your intel is sufficient to bring reinforcements in time.
Neuts are mainly a concern for frigates when they are mediums as the cycle time is short enough to prevent any significant recharge to take place .. single small nos solves that. Which leaves small neuts, or twin M/L cycled to optimize drain either of which can be said to be a direct counter to the close/fast frigate.
Summation: If you are having problems against BS in a frigate due to a heavy neut then you are quite frankly doing it wrong. Against Cruisers/BC a frigate is not viable in most cases due to inability to properly speed tank weapons, doesn't mean you shouldn't poke them as there are a lot of fail-fits around.
|
darius mclever
|
Posted - 2010.12.07 17:13:00 -
[35]
Originally by: Dav Varan
Originally by: darius mclever not supported.
nos and cap injectors are the counter to neuts. with proper timing you can easily negate the whole neut effect.
Please show me the small neut that can fill my cap in 1 cycle ?
heavy neut cycle time 24s small nos (i think you meant nos) cycle time 3s. that means you get *8* full cycles of cap before you get nuked down once.if you manage that the neut cycle hits you right before a nos cycle, you can instantly put the scram back on.
Quote: You cant so you are wrong again and talking crap as per usual.
running out of arguments (not that you had many in the beginning) and already personal attacks. wow. i am amazed. keep it coming.
Quote: Small nos may work somewhat for a ab rifter with a small degree of luck. Lag >>> proper timing.
Small nos wont help any ship with long range point and mwd , both mods use far to much cap for small nos to help.
And any cap use on weapons isnt going to help much either.
nobody said it should be easy, but it is doable. please try to kill any sub BS in your BS without slowing it down significantly. especially things like rifters.
any ship with a long range point and a mwd should have speed enough to drift out of range and warp out, if not bad luck.
|
X Gallentius
Quantum Cats Syndicate
|
Posted - 2010.12.07 18:22:00 -
[36]
ECM has exponentially greater effect on smaller ship classes.
|
Spugg Galdon
|
Posted - 2010.12.08 02:33:00 -
[37]
I understand that the argument is that neuts are for some reason a necessary module to fit over almost anything else. This is because a neut is very powerful. I mean I always double neut fit my Hurricane over launchers. I Always fit a neut to my harbinger. etc etc. I think the main problem is simply a Nos isn't powerful enough to choose to fit over a neut. A Nos doesn't give you a really good defence vs neuts and only works when your targets cap is greater than your own which is a major flaw considering the amount of cap you actually gain.
Why not just buff the Nos slightly to make it more appealing to fit vs a neut. Or make a module like the capacitor battery also give a resistance to neuting to make those modules an "option" to fit over a cap booster.
|
Omara Otawan
|
Posted - 2010.12.08 05:17:00 -
[38]
Originally by: Dav Varan
Consider a hyperthetical fight between a cruiser with medium nos and a frig.
The cruise neuts the frig. Frig cant maintain its prop mod. Frig dies to other high slots / drones. This generally happens after 1 activation of the neut.
Although the neut does not supply any of the dps it is never the less 95% responsible for the kill.
That is a pretty good description as long as we are talking about an idiot frigate pilot.
A smart frigate pilot will laugh at the medium neut because he has his small nos fitted as he likes to engage cruisers.
|
Kabaal S'sylistha
Caldari Technomage Trilogy Comrades-Of-Two
|
Posted - 2010.12.08 08:50:00 -
[39]
Originally by: Omara Otawan
Originally by: Dav Varan
Consider a hyperthetical fight between a cruiser with medium nos and a frig.
The cruise neuts the frig. Frig cant maintain its prop mod. Frig dies to other high slots / drones. This generally happens after 1 activation of the neut.
Although the neut does not supply any of the dps it is never the less 95% responsible for the kill.
That is a pretty good description as long as we are talking about an idiot frigate pilot.
A smart frigate pilot will laugh at the medium neut because he has his small nos fitted as he likes to engage cruisers.
Every frig has a utility high slot now? Sweet -More Pewpew, Less QQ- |
Aphrodite Skripalle
Galactic Defence Consortium
|
Posted - 2010.12.08 09:08:00 -
[40]
As already said, the problem is not the neutralizers, its the nos which is nerfed to heavy. Buff the Nos a bit and it will become useful again.
|
|
Bobbeh
Minmatar Navy of Xoc Wildly Inappropriate.
|
Posted - 2010.12.08 10:12:00 -
[41]
Originally by: Dav Varan
Originally by: Bobbeh So basically What your saying is you want to Nerf the 1 thing that can save a BS from a frigate. seriously thats stupid.
Without Neuts Local Rep cruisers and BC's and such would be neigh invincible N2M the Dramiel which would be the most powerful ship in the game.
Don't get me Wrong i love it too cause my Sabre would be Invincible with the only counter being neuts. i could run circles around BS and bubble the Sh*t outa them
Neuts work as they are supposed to, cause hey if we wanna be realistic a frigate webbing a nano BS should get towed along behind like a sleigh behind a snowmobile.
i'd be ok with them fixing nos's in a way that they were more effective as right now there sh*t. But Nerfing Neuts is f*cking Stupid
What do you mean by save a bs from a frig ?
Any BS in the Game can tank any frig in the Game ? Certainly long enough to get back to a gate and jump out.
BS have huge tanks you know.
Whats stupid is a BS has a 1 slot fix to prevent it being tackled by any frig.
BS are not supposed to be roaming around hostile space unsupported.
So Where To start First Point Who is the first ship type locking you on a gate? Frigates, or generally first point on everything in 0.0, frigs or Recons.
Really How long does it take you to Tank a frigate with your super Leet Buffer..... Oh and who said your on a gate every time. On a planet if i cant neut out a Frig/ inty i wont get away cause he'll just point ya and kill your drones then slowly widdle you down. Unless your fitting Purger BS at which point you sir are FAIL
Third, BS can have a huge buffer yes, or they can have a decent buffer and decent dps. or they can be nano (phoons) or they can be Active Tanked. So so say your buffer fit and your fighting 2 frigs and you dont have a neut. You burn back to the gate and jump. The other frigate tackles you on the other side so you burn back and jump, rinse and repeat til your dead cause you have no reliable counter. Active tank Same Problem cept you wont die you'll just tank them forever. Nano you will die quicker
No whats stupid is that Frigate pilots think they should be invincible to BS, ab assault frig can already orbit a bs in scram and web range and not get hit period.
Frigates arent supposed to be the answer to every ship in the game.
The counter to frigates is destroyers Cruisers and Neuts.
The Counter to Destroyers is Cruisers BC's and Neuts
Cruisers : Cruisers BC's BS and Neuts
BC's : BC's BS and Neuts
BS : BC BS and Neuts Caps: All the above and Neuts Super caps: NEUTS
See a trend here
Neuts Counter EVERYTHING they arent a disadvantage they are a tactic. IF you wanna use em fit a nos or fit a cap booster. If not understand that your fit is Neut vulnerable.
So instead of Whining cause your interceptor/dramiel/ Assault frig/ cant tackle everything in game risk free. Learn to fly your ships correctly and fit to counter things you will expect.
|
Mocam
|
Posted - 2010.12.08 10:40:00 -
[42]
Really odd to bump into this thread. I actually raised this topic in a chat channel earlier today... errr... yesterday now (my time-zone anyway)
CCP seems to be taking a "cheap" approach to challenges -- gut the cap on a ship and it's lame. Unless it's a passive tanked ship fitting something like projectile weapons or missiles that don't need cap to work.
PvP itself is buffer/passive tank simply due to this branch of technology in the game and, as the game keeps progressing, the options for "good fits" for higher end encounters go more towards buffer/passive with no-energy use weapons systems.
This drastically reduces options in this game. Active tanks should be viable for PvP use and energy hungry weapons should also. Either that or gut what passive and buffer can do while also drastically reducing what missiles and projectile "no cost to use" weapon systems can do.
I'm less into the "nerf" school than buff so I'd be more inclined in adding mods or enhancing mods that beef up systems that require powered operations.
For CCP's consideration: Drakes are plug slow ships but fit massive PASSIVE tanks easily and use missiles so don't need much cap. Is it any wonder these ships are popular when many pilots COULD fly far more powerful ships fitted with powered systems *IF* powered systems weren't the huge liability they've been turned into?
I think some re-engineering is needed but lets see if the nerf bat can stay in the closet. Let's see if boosters and the like can get some buffing instead of gutting this system. It'll yield the same net effect but won't tick off quite so many folks.
|
Kabaal S'sylistha
Caldari Technomage Trilogy Comrades-Of-Two
|
Posted - 2010.12.08 10:51:00 -
[43]
Originally by: Bobbeh NEUTSNEUTSNEUTSNEUTSNEUTS
If all the questions on the quiz have one answer, it's a poorly designed quiz. -More Pewpew, Less QQ- |
TZeer
BURN EDEN
|
Posted - 2010.12.08 10:53:00 -
[44]
Very bad suggestion.
- One of the few counters that work for BS against smaller targets. - Cycle time on a heavy neut is 24 sec. - Cycle time on a small NOS is 3 sec. (Means you get 8 cycles with a small NOS between each cycle of a large neut.) - Sometimes the only way to stop a ship/break it`s tank is to destroy it`s cap. - Cap warfare against capitals would be a PITA! - The ship who is using the neut is also loosing cap.
A change like this would make smaller ships overpowered. Nerfing everything that works against smaller ships will make bigger ships obsolete.
Cant track it Cant hit it Cant NOS it Cant neut it Web has little effect
|
Dlardrageth
ANZAC ALLIANCE IT Alliance
|
Posted - 2010.12.08 13:09:00 -
[45]
+1
About time they removed the very last reason to let the Pilgrim stay in game as is. Not like it has much else of a use except "Neut with a Cloak" anyway...
|
Dav Varan
|
Posted - 2010.12.08 13:25:00 -
[46]
Originally by: TZeer Very bad suggestion.
- One of the few counters that work for BS against smaller targets. - Cycle time on a heavy neut is 24 sec. - Cycle time on a small NOS is 3 sec. (Means you get 8 cycles with a small NOS between each cycle of a large neut.) - Sometimes the only way to stop a ship/break it`s tank is to destroy it`s cap. - Cap warfare against capitals would be a PITA! - The ship who is using the neut is also loosing cap.
A change like this would make smaller ships overpowered. Nerfing everything that works against smaller ships will make bigger ships obsolete.
Cant track it Cant hit it Cant NOS it Cant neut it Web has little effect
Cap warefare is overpowered. Your own opinions bear this out.
- One of the few counters that work for BS against smaller targets. What you actually meant to say was - One of the few counters that work for BS without having to compromise firepower versus enemy BS.
* Instead of taking max amount of heavy/sentrys/jammers take multiple flights of light drones. * Fit assault missile launchers in spare highs gun boats * Fit 220 vulcan ac's or medium electron blaster
I know they are lol ideas. Why bother doing any of that. Just fit Heavy Neut 1 slot solution and dont compromise your fit.
- Cycle time on a small NOS is 3 sec. (Means you get 8 cycles with a small NOS between each cycle of a large neut.) * Only works for passive frig fits * The must fit solution for frigs to defend against the must fit solution for cruisers/bs ** ( maybe irrelevant but FYI ) Can be counter countered by carrying neut drones. I guarantee you will kill all frigs you come across in your bs if you use these.
- Sometimes the only way to stop a ship/break it`s tank is to destroy it`s cap.
* And in doing this it is far too effective espcially against ships that dont have a mid slot spare for a cap booster another must fit module due to the op nature of cw * Passive / Buffer fits are FOTM and will remain so for ever more unless Neuts are balanced.
imo. Neuts should slow an active tank down not switch it off altogether.
By neuting down to 0 cap recharge is switched off. By neuting down to a lower level it may be possible for an active tanker to keep some sort of rep going by pulsing the booster.
|
Bobbeh
Minmatar Navy of Xoc Wildly Inappropriate.
|
Posted - 2010.12.09 09:09:00 -
[47]
Whine whine whine, moan moan moan.
Why should a BS pilot fit an AS or Medium gun (which won't help against all targets just small ones) Next your gonna say all ships should be omni tanked for shield and armor and have a spread of gun sizes and missle launchers you know for realisms sake.
A neut will help you against pretty much any target in the game whether your the hunter or the prey. If you take this away you make it so that caps cant get killed by BS as effectively, and so that small ships are immune to caps and bs.
Which is FANTASTIC as i could endlessly bubble enemy cap fleets in my sabre as their only counter is neuts, unless they try and sick drones on me which i kite away and kill. Neuts how ever cap me out but i get 1 pulse of the mwd after that, and thats enough to get outa neut range.
frigates are Fast tackle, and Short range protection (vs. Bombers, interdictors, drones, fighters, fighter bombers, and the like) They arent meant to be primary tackle or the base dps ship, or the jack of all trades, or superman. They have the DPS to do the jobs listed above not counter BS fleets. And if you think you should beable to bring a Frigate fleet to a BS/BC fight you should quit eve now. (bomber fleets aside)
|
Dav Varan
|
Posted - 2010.12.09 10:53:00 -
[48]
Originally by: Bobbeh Whine whine whine, moan moan moan.
Why should a BS pilot fit an AS or Medium gun (which won't help against all targets just small ones) Next your gonna say all ships should be omni tanked for shield and armor and have a spread of gun sizes and missle launchers you know for realisms sake.
A neut will help you against pretty much any target in the game whether your the hunter or the prey. If you take this away you make it so that caps cant get killed by BS as effectively, and so that small ships are immune to caps and bs.
Which is FANTASTIC as i could endlessly bubble enemy cap fleets in my sabre as their only counter is neuts, unless they try and sick drones on me which i kite away and kill. Neuts how ever cap me out but i get 1 pulse of the mwd after that, and thats enough to get outa neut range.
frigates are Fast tackle, and Short range protection (vs. Bombers, interdictors, drones, fighters, fighter bombers, and the like) They arent meant to be primary tackle or the base dps ship, or the jack of all trades, or superman. They have the DPS to do the jobs listed above not counter BS fleets. And if you think you should beable to bring a Frigate fleet to a BS/BC fight you should quit eve now. (bomber fleets aside)
If you happy being a cookie cutter fit flying null sec nubkin then I'm happy for you.
Your dependancy on Neuts for success is just more evidence that they are overpowered. When it comes to fitting spare high slots what do YOU put in there ?
Same thing as everyone else including me I'd wager The only mod that makes any sense.
One that completelly fecks over anything class sizes smaller than yourslef ? One that stops other ships from defending themselves with reps? One that stops other ships from firing back unless there mini/cal ?
|
Bobbeh
Minmatar Navy of Xoc Wildly Inappropriate.
|
Posted - 2010.12.09 18:32:00 -
[49]
Originally by: Dav Varan
If you happy being a cookie cutter fit flying null sec nubkin then I'm happy for you.
Your dependancy on Neuts for success is just more evidence that they are overpowered. When it comes to fitting spare high slots what do YOU put in there ?
Same thing as everyone else including me I'd wager The only mod that makes any sense.
One that completelly fecks over anything class sizes smaller than yourslef ? One that stops other ships from defending themselves with reps? One that stops other ships from firing back unless there mini/cal ?
Obviously you've never heard of a Cap booster, as its what keeps my ships alive against neuts.
As per my highslot usage, i usually either fit a neut, a smart bomb, or a rr on my bs's utility highs, for example My phoons highs are 2 neuts and an armor rr.
Also you forget about Nos as i fit my Cruor with 1 nos 1 neut and laugh when i start capping out people but cant be kept capped out cause people suck at cycling their neuts.
i mean the only benefit i see with this proposed change is that solo roaming frigates and destroyers would be neigh invincible if they were good pilots, like dramiels are now and well we dont need more of those.
If your gonna fight BS's know which ones have a utility high and strategize accordingly if you find a poc a hype a rokh or a maelstrom, they prolly wont be fitting a neut.
Basically why do you think Active shield tanking ****s are usually Cap injected if not Dual Cap injected. or why passive vindicators are cap injected, or why cap boosters exist in the game. They are the logical counter to neuts.
if you dont wanna fit a nox or a cap booster you run the risk of being neuted out. Its a fair gamble cause if you dont run a neut you risk being out tanked buffer vs active, and or caught by lil sh*ts and not able to get away
|
Pattern Clarc
Aperture Harmonics K162
|
Posted - 2010.12.09 19:39:00 -
[50]
____ Racial Active tanking bonuses - fix or replace! |
|
Chainsaw Plankton
IDLE GUNS IDLE EMPIRE
|
Posted - 2010.12.09 20:41:00 -
[51]
nos was nerfed because it was pretty broken, neuts were fine so they weren't touched
neuts are still fine
and a small nos gives +2.7 to +3.2 cap/s with a cycle time of 3s according to eft, where an abII uses -0.7 cap/s, and a scram II uses -0.8 cap/s
heavy neut pretty much kills a frigs cap, but has a cycle time of 24s.
meh.
|
Dav Varan
|
Posted - 2010.12.10 10:01:00 -
[52]
Originally by: Chainsaw Plankton nos was nerfed because it was pretty broken, neuts were fine so they weren't touched
neuts are still fine
and a small nos gives +2.7 to +3.2 cap/s with a cycle time of 3s according to eft, where an abII uses -0.7 cap/s, and a scram II uses -0.8 cap/s
heavy neut pretty much kills a frigs cap, but has a cycle time of 24s.
meh.
Sure i agree with you on your numbers. Fine as long as your frig is passive. Rifter ftw
What if you need to run lasers or blasters. What if you need to run a small armor rep or small shield booster.
Pretty screwed over by one mod right ?
Yeah I know how to fit my ships to make them work with the current game mechs
But would eve be a better game if there were 4 basic types of fit to build variations on instead on 2.
|
Shiho Weitong
Caldari Koa Mai Hoku
|
Posted - 2010.12.10 16:12:00 -
[53]
Originally by: Bagehi
Originally by: Dav Varan
Originally by: Bagehi Neuts are really the primary defense a larger ship has against a smaller ship. Don't touch the neuts.
Exactly my point !
Theres one module that is the Primary defense v small stuff. Its a must fit ( overpowered ) module.
Just one activation of one module makes all your small ship problems go away!
And then how does a larger ship protect itself against smaller ships? Or are smaller ships supposed to be completely invincible against larger ships?
First off. Neuts are fine.
That being said I would love to see fewer utility highs on most ships, in general, so the answer for bigger ships against frigs is having their own frigs. (GASP) ----------- Why is it called common sense, when it's clearly very rare.
I had a mind once, but alas, I seem to have forgotten where I left it.
Originally by: Tchell Dahhn You win, and thank you. |
Bobbeh
Minmatar Navy of Xoc Wildly Inappropriate.
|
Posted - 2010.12.11 07:28:00 -
[54]
Originally by: Shiho Weitong
Originally by: Bagehi
Originally by: Dav Varan
Originally by: Bagehi Neuts are really the primary defense a larger ship has against a smaller ship. Don't touch the neuts.
Exactly my point !
Theres one module that is the Primary defense v small stuff. Its a must fit ( overpowered ) module.
Just one activation of one module makes all your small ship problems go away!
And then how does a larger ship protect itself against smaller ships? Or are smaller ships supposed to be completely invincible against larger ships?
First off. Neuts are fine.
That being said I would love to see fewer utility highs on most ships, in general, so the answer for bigger ships against frigs is having their own frigs. (GASP)
Gasp..... You sir are Genius Except Fail at the Same time.
Cause i imagine in your mind the Perfect 10 man gang is like 3 bs 2 bc couple destroyers and a couple frigs. Where in all Fairness it is far from the truth.
simply Put 1 v 1 a frigate Should Not beable to take a BS.
Thats like a LAV taking a Main battle tank, and we arent talking flukes.
Or A frigate size ship vs a Destroyer or Battleship.
Yes they might miss more. But when they hit they would essentially wreck you in one shot.
So im all for Fairness and Equallity but if we go for that then really lets be realistic. If your in a frig you wont go for anything bigger than a cruiser cause it will trash you. Neuts aside
What in your mind makes it ok for the smallest ship in the game to beable to take the largest sub capital (non T2) ship in the game 1v1 sorry No go.
Heres An RL example i coach Peewee Football, if 5 of my linebackers came at me i am 100% sure that i would win. sure they are prolly a lil faster and there are several of them. But that doesnt equal out to you instantly win.
Now dont get me wrong a flight of 5+ frigates in eve should wreck a bs. Easily even 3 frigs should wreck a bs.
but 1v1 no chance in hell.
So stop puffin the magic dragon and imagining yourself in your armor rep inty flying through a fleet of bs at like 50 m off each raping **** cause its not gonna happen.
Basically 1v1 fights t1 should be like this Frig<destroyer<Cruiser<Battlecruiser<Battleship<Capital<SuperCapital< Fighterbomber<Frigate......
Thats the circle of eve. 5 jaguars could make easy work of all major offensive weapons on a super carrier and laugh at him while a single sabre holds him down neuts or not. Jags fly Cover for Sabre taking drones sabre keeps at 35k and as his bubbler recycles he does a fly by and bubbles.
Not to mention if that Supercarrier is attacking caps they can pick off the Fighterbombers before he can return em then hes useless.
Everything has its place and frigats arent supposed to be the counter to BS
|
Shiho Weitong
Caldari Koa Mai Hoku
|
Posted - 2010.12.11 15:40:00 -
[55]
Originally by: Bobbeh Stuff
Reading comprehension fail much?
I never said a frigate should be able to take on a BS, so take your attitude and shove it somewhere uncomfortable.
I just said, that I would love for Battleships to have to bring along antifrig support. Not to win the fight. I never said that. But to make it easier to win the fight.
Originally by: Bobbeh Heres An RL example i coach Peewee Football, if 5 of my linebackers came at me i am 100% sure that i would win. sure they are prolly a lil faster and there are several of them. But that doesnt equal out to you instantly win.
Because peewee football is comparable to spaceships in an internet game. Right. ----------- Why is it called common sense, when it's clearly very rare.
I had a mind once, but alas, I seem to have forgotten where I left it.
Originally by: Tchell Dahhn You win, and thank you. |
Bobbeh
Minmatar Navy of Xoc Wildly Inappropriate.
|
Posted - 2010.12.11 18:42:00 -
[56]
Originally by: Shiho Weitong
Originally by: Bobbeh Stuff
Reading comprehension fail much?
I never said a frigate should be able to take on a BS, so take your attitude and shove it somewhere uncomfortable.
I just said, that I would love for Battleships to have to bring along antifrig support. Not to win the fight. I never said that. But to make it easier to win the fight.
Originally by: Bobbeh Heres An RL example i coach Peewee Football, if 5 of my linebackers came at me i am 100% sure that i would win. sure they are prolly a lil faster and there are several of them. But that doesnt equal out to you instantly win.
Because peewee football is comparable to spaceships in an internet game. Right.
Except that already happens its called Cycling points. 2 frigates can keep a BS pointed forever, even if it have neuts. Frigates main job is to keep point till heavy tackle gets in range.
My opinion is my own and i dont need to shove it anywhere. so why shouldnt frigates do the job they are tasked with just fine. The flaw in your argument is that your looking at it from a solo perspective, where eve is not a solo game. Another nice counter to neuts is numbers, he cant neut out everyone. So he neuts one frig out well you up your transversal and burn outa range, then laugh cause you instantly have cap and reapproach where hes already neuting someone else.
Neut cane gets beat by Ham Web Drake. but Active Cyclone gets ****d by Neut Cane, which inturn can **** the ham web drake.
|
Hirana Yoshida
Behavioral Affront
|
Posted - 2010.12.11 19:02:00 -
[57]
Edited by: Hirana Yoshida on 11/12/2010 19:03:07
Originally by: Dav Varan Sure i agree with you on your numbers. Fine as long as your frig is passive. Rifter ftw
Works perfectly fine for my Brawler Slicers, those are is active tank fits using the most cap intensive weapon available by the way. Sure the guns shut off for a few seconds when the neut hits but scram/ab practically never does and repairer just needs a few cycles after approach to fix scratches. Drones are dead as fast as they are launched leaving the target living on borrowed time.
It is IMPOSSIBLE to shake a properly flown ab tackler unless you use: EC-xx drones. Multiple neuts, staggered (Hate Phoons/Domis!) Smartbombs. Friends. While EV-xx drones are also a good idea they have little to no effect against anything else so are never, ever used except for 'lolz'.
|
Candente
Caldari
|
Posted - 2010.12.11 20:05:00 -
[58]
Originally by: Dav Varan Edited by: Dav Varan on 06/12/2010 14:57:35 I dont want neuts totally nerfed. I just think there effect is a bit too stong at the moment.
Ccp went through a lot of work to prevent BS guns / missiles from insta popping frigs. Nos have had there effectiveness reduced too. Originally back in the day a volley of cruise from a raven would insta pop any frig.
Now we have a much better situation where frigs can survive on the battle field much better v big stuff. The one module remaining that needs balancing is the neut.
Attack a bs and a cruiser that has a neut and the following can happen. They press a button. You have no cap and are basically dead in the water.
Ok v cruiser you can stay outside 12km. Theres no way to tackle a bs with a large neut though.
Neuts are a 1 slot fix against frigs on a bs. 1 slot !!!
I think a situation where 2 or 3 cycles or modules to put someones cap under serious pressure ( 10% ) would be a better all round solution.
Make it hard to put someone down to 0 cap. But still easy to make them suffer with cap regen.
For balance it maybe neccessary to not take cap from the neuting ship when cap is not destroyed.
Also Buffer tanks are FOTM. Neuts have a hand in this.
I'd like to see more setup types being viable.
Is it because you personally feel that a frig should be able to solo tackle a battleship? I personally feel that BS should have its size advantage recognized and there should be several, not just one, frigates to defeat a battleship. ------------- rawr~ |
Bobbeh
Minmatar Navy of Xoc Wildly Inappropriate.
|
Posted - 2010.12.12 05:54:00 -
[59]
Cheers to both the pilots above me, They get it.
My Ab fit Jaguar is as scared of a bs as it is of a titan. They might hit me once or twice but it will scratch the paint having a sig thats soo tiny cruisers having trouble tracking is win and with a small nos and an ab i laugh at neuts cept if its dual neut then i play careful
|
Ranka Mei
Caldari
|
Posted - 2010.12.12 06:21:00 -
[60]
Originally by: Mimiru Minahiro
2)It is not in any way counter to the philosophy of the game when considered inside the framework of balance. A large nuet, for example, is the only real consistant defense some BS have against some of the beefier small(er) ships. Removing said defense shifts the favor entirely into the other persons favor. 100% winsauce in either person's favor is not balance. Before you counter with: but the small ship will always lose... this is not in any way factually correct unqualifiably.
Some ships, though, like the Tengu (and other T3, like Legion) suffer disproportionally from neuts. And this because they are, at heart, still cruisers. And because they're built around the idea of favoring shield boosters (for the Tengu, that is). Roughly spoken, a T3 can match a BS; but when the cap goes, suddenly T3 becomes real weak. Yes, you can always carry cap boosters, of course; but that does take up a valuable mid-slot, and the need for it does underline its extra vulnerability to neuts.
Were it me, I'd outlaw neuts altogether. :) --
|
|
|
|
|
Pages: 1 [2] 3 :: one page |
First page | Previous page | Next page | Last page |