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Eiskaltt
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Posted - 2010.12.06 18:34:00 -
[1]
I presently have the skills to run a T1 Autocannon/Artillery boat, with a T2 shield tank and T2 weapon upgrades. Can it run L4s just as well as the other kings of pve? I was playing around in EFT and compared my supposed Mach fit to my current Raven fit, and it has about 1/2 the DPS. Not sure if this will equate to anything in game, but it's still there.
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Mibad
Sickle Moon
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Posted - 2010.12.06 18:48:00 -
[2]
Every single fit for Mach uses Autocannons. You can get 1000 DPS Faction Fit. It can hit up to like 60k
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Eiskaltt
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Posted - 2010.12.06 18:57:00 -
[3]
hnnghhh.. ignore the DPS part of this thread. I forgot to put in my skills. my DPS just increased by 180%.
With this kind of EFT tank/DPS, I figure I can solo L4 Missions. :P
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Malcanis
Caldari Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
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Posted - 2010.12.06 19:03:00 -
[4]
Originally by: Eiskaltt hnnghhh.. ignore the DPS part of this thread. I forgot to put in my skills. my DPS just increased by 180%.
With this kind of EFT tank/DPS, I figure I can solo L4 Missions. :P
A well fitted Mach will do level 4s solo so easily that it's just not funny.
Malcanis' Law: Whenever a mechanics change is proposed on behalf of "new players", that change is always to the overwhelming advantage of richer, older players. |
Cipher Jones
Minmatar
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Posted - 2010.12.06 19:07:00 -
[5]
Mach is king of level 4's hands down.
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Zindela
Caldari School of Applied Knowledge
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Posted - 2010.12.06 20:21:00 -
[6]
Originally by: Cipher Jones Mach is king of level 4's hands down.
QFT.
My Mach is the fastest missioning ship I've used. Even when I still had Meta4 800s on it. It's even better with T2 800s -------------------
Originally by: CCP Oveur
Guess what I'm wearing.
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Culmen
Caldari Blood Phage Syndicate
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Posted - 2010.12.06 21:03:00 -
[7]
Edited by: Culmen on 06/12/2010 21:05:35
Originally by: Zindela
Originally by: Cipher Jones Mach is king of level 4's hands down.
QFT.
Another Mach fan chiming in
This is the setup I use. [Machariel, Mission mach] Republic Fleet Gyrostabilizer Republic Fleet Gyrostabilizer Republic Fleet Gyrostabilizer Republic Fleet Gyrostabilizer Tracking Enhancer II Tracking Enhancer II Tracking Enhancer II
Caldari Navy X-Large Shield Booster Shield Boost Amplifier II Heavy Capacitor Booster II, Cap Booster 800 Caldari Navy Invulnerability Field Invulnerability Field II
800mm Repeating Artillery II, EMP L 800mm Repeating Artillery II, EMP L 800mm Repeating Artillery II, EMP L 800mm Repeating Artillery II, EMP L 800mm Repeating Artillery II, EMP L 800mm Repeating Artillery II, EMP L 800mm Repeating Artillery II, EMP L Small Tractor Beam I
Large Ionic Field Projector I Large Projectile Metastasis Adjuster II Large Projectile Metastasis Adjuster II
Hobgoblin II x5 Ogre II x4
The tech II invul field gets replaced with a race specific hardener. Not that you need it with the sheer amount of gank this thing puts out, but I like to play it a little safer.
The lock range rig is there because 77km is just too short considering thats almost your entire falloff range.. You really won't miss the shield HP, alot of times the X-large shield booster is just taking up space. With the rig in you get a much more respectable 94km, your guns are still doing substantial damage even at that range.
Yes I realize that there are 5 things that improve tracking, but realize the tech II rigs are giving more then double the tracking bonus of the tracking enhancers. The tracking enhancers are there primarily for fall off anyway. These 800mm can swat even the closest orbiting cruisers, good for when you're holding at an acell gate rather then kiting.
Tractor beam is there because...hey i had an extra slot, and I'm too lazy to fly over and grab the damsel. and further more why do i even need a sig? |
Chainsaw Plankton
IDLE GUNS IDLE EMPIRE
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Posted - 2010.12.06 21:17:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Eiskaltt kings of pve?
mach IS a king, 4x gryos, 3x te, 4 slot shield tank, 100mn ab, 7x 800mm ac, utility high, t2 rof rig, and any other 50 calibration rig. 4x sentries + 5x lights in the drone bay.
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Trebor Whettam
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Posted - 2010.12.06 21:29:00 -
[9]
Edited by: Trebor Whettam on 06/12/2010 21:36:13
Originally by: Chainsaw Plankton
Originally by: Eiskaltt kings of pve?
mach IS a king, 4x gryos, 3x te, 4 slot shield tank, 100mn ab, 7x 800mm ac, utility high, t2 rof rig, and any other 50 calibration rig. 4x sentries + 5x lights in the drone bay.
I don't buy it.
There's no way that a Machariel nets more isk/hr than a Paladin munching on Armor Plates in Amarr space. The Paladin projects more dps over most of the usable range, has faction ammo that's just this side of free, and can loot / salvage the most profitable ships as it goes. Has anyone looked at the value of Armor Plates recently? There's a reason why trimarks cost a fortune.
ETA: The Golem is also a sick ship in Amarr space (although some missions prefer a CNR/Tengu).
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Scout1111
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Posted - 2010.12.06 22:19:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Trebor Whettam Edited by: Trebor Whettam on 06/12/2010 21:36:13
Originally by: Chainsaw Plankton
Originally by: Eiskaltt kings of pve?
mach IS a king, 4x gryos, 3x te, 4 slot shield tank, 100mn ab, 7x 800mm ac, utility high, t2 rof rig, and any other 50 calibration rig. 4x sentries + 5x lights in the drone bay.
I don't buy it.
There's no way that a Machariel nets more isk/hr than a Paladin munching on Armor Plates in Amarr space. The Paladin projects more dps over most of the usable range, has faction ammo that's just this side of free, and can loot / salvage the most profitable ships as it goes. Has anyone looked at the value of Armor Plates recently? There's a reason why trimarks cost a fortune.
ETA: The Golem is also a sick ship in Amarr space (although some missions prefer a CNR/Tengu).
You forget that the Nightmare also contends heavily with the Paladin.
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Amarrian Alt
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Posted - 2010.12.06 22:51:00 -
[11]
mach:
lows: 3-4x rf gyros (nanofiber/dcu whatever you fancy) 3xtracking enhancers II mids: rf ab x-l sb II 2x hardeners heavy cap booster II highs: 7x 800mm II tractorbeam
rigs: proj burst II resist rig/nozzle joint (whatever you fancy)
You could even remove 1-2 hardeners for certain missions and fit rf target painters instead and mop the floor with those pesky hacs. Did AE extra room recently to see if i could tank it. Always thought my tank would break instantly. Never imagined i could clear it that easily.
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Lugalzagezi666
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Posted - 2010.12.06 22:53:00 -
[12]
Its only me who fits mwd to mission macha?
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Amarrian Alt
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Posted - 2010.12.06 23:09:00 -
[13]
the moment ccp removes deadspace call me in, probably gonna buy a few hg snakes too. now i'm probably too lazy to switch 2 modules all the time.
what missions don't have deadspace? uhm... blockade, i think. This juicy amarr mission where ships spawn constantly, maybe. Buzzkill? I think im the only guy who does that mission,
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Seriously Bored
Minmatar
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Posted - 2010.12.06 23:54:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Trebor Whettam I don't buy it.
There's no way that a Machariel nets more isk/hr than a Paladin munching on Armor Plates in Amarr space. The Paladin projects more dps over most of the usable range, has faction ammo that's just this side of free, and can loot / salvage the most profitable ships as it goes. Has anyone looked at the value of Armor Plates recently? There's a reason why trimarks cost a fortune.
Same here. I find that most of the time, people claiming Mach is king of PVE haven't properly skilled any of the alternatives for comparison. (The Mach is very easy to jump into compared to a Marauder, for example.)
That, and occasionally people seem to think that having 1200 DPS and 70KM falloff means you do 1200 DPS at 70KM...
All that said, I own a Mach and I like it. I just like the Vargur more, even in spite of having Min/Gal BS V. (Them plates are tasty.) |
Von Kapiche
Minmatar
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Posted - 2010.12.07 02:00:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Lugalzagezi666 Its only me who fits mwd to mission macha?
I carried a rather nice MWD around in cargo, but it never saw much use. Mind you I hardly ever touched my Mach's AB either.
Well, my more or less maxed out NM pilot is in Marauders, but I'm still not convinced fitting out a Pally/Golem pair is really going to be worth it.
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Chainsaw Plankton
IDLE GUNS IDLE EMPIRE
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Posted - 2010.12.07 02:21:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Trebor Whettam Edited by: Trebor Whettam on 06/12/2010 21:36:13
Originally by: Chainsaw Plankton mach IS a king
I don't buy it.
There's no way that a Machariel nets more isk/hr than a Paladin munching on Armor Plates in Amarr space. The Paladin projects more dps over most of the usable range, has faction ammo that's just this side of free, and can loot / salvage the most profitable ships as it goes. Has anyone looked at the value of Armor Plates recently? There's a reason why trimarks cost a fortune.
ETA: The Golem is also a sick ship in Amarr space (although some missions prefer a CNR/Tengu).
I did say "a king" paladin would also get that title. love my paladin for em/therm missions (there are a few missions where I'd rather just blitz in the nightmare, but details...)
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Chainsaw Plankton
IDLE GUNS IDLE EMPIRE
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Posted - 2010.12.07 02:24:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Seriously Bored
Originally by: Trebor Whettam I don't buy it.
There's no way that a Machariel nets more isk/hr than a Paladin munching on Armor Plates in Amarr space. The Paladin projects more dps over most of the usable range, has faction ammo that's just this side of free, and can loot / salvage the most profitable ships as it goes. Has anyone looked at the value of Armor Plates recently? There's a reason why trimarks cost a fortune.
Same here. I find that most of the time, people claiming Mach is king of PVE haven't properly skilled any of the alternatives for comparison. (The Mach is very easy to jump into compared to a Marauder, for example.)
That, and occasionally people seem to think that having 1200 DPS and 70KM falloff means you do 1200 DPS at 70KM...
All that said, I own a Mach and I like it. I just like the Vargur more, even in spite of having Min/Gal BS V. (Them plates are tasty.)
and yea angels drop a lot of armor plates too, varg is a very nice ship
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Trebor Whettam
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Posted - 2010.12.07 03:53:00 -
[18]
My appologies Chainsaw; I meant to quote Cipher Jones.
The issue with the Mach is that there's not that much utility for a non-Marauder that projects so little dps beyond 60km.
As for the claim that the Paladin can't be king because of the Nightmare, I simply disagree. There's no doubt that the Nightmare is the slightly faster mission ship, the the Paladin will out isk/hr it the vast majority of the time. Prior to the loot nerf, I think this was the nearly universal opinion. Then, people became convinced that looting salvaging was no longer worth the hassle. I contend that, given the inflated value of Armor Plates and their obscene drop rate in Amarr-space missions, it is absolutely worth the hassle.
Incidentally, I'm not obsessed with the Paladin. I actually believe that the Golem is superior for many close range BR and Sansha missions. But, in the false but popular question of what's the single best hi-sec PvE ship, the Paladin would be my choice.
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Sir Asterix
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Posted - 2010.12.07 05:04:00 -
[19]
Why bother going for the expence of a Mach or any other faction battle ship? A T2 fitted Domi will do lvl 4 missions just as well for only about 200 mill isk! |
Chainsaw Plankton
IDLE GUNS IDLE EMPIRE
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Posted - 2010.12.07 05:09:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Sir Asterix Why bother going for the expence of a Mach or any other faction battle ship? A T2 fitted Domi will do lvl 4 missions just as well for only about 200 mill isk!
no.... no it wont
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Sir Asterix
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Posted - 2010.12.07 05:40:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Chainsaw Plankton
Originally by: Sir Asterix Why bother going for the expence of a Mach or any other faction battle ship? A T2 fitted Domi will do lvl 4 missions just as well for only about 200 mill isk!
no.... no it wont
yes... yes it does. Perhaps your just doing it wrong? |
Scout1111
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Posted - 2010.12.07 05:47:00 -
[22]
Edited by: Scout1111 on 07/12/2010 05:49:23 If by "just as well", you mean it can COMPLETE missions, then it may do missions "just as well", but that does not mean it will do it with any kind of efficiency, speed, tank (okay maybe tank), or gank compared to a machariel.
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Sir Asterix
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Posted - 2010.12.07 05:59:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Scout1111 Edited by: Scout1111 on 07/12/2010 05:49:23 If by "just as well", you mean it can COMPLETE missions, then it may do missions "just as well", but that does not mean it will do it with any kind of efficiency, speed, tank (okay maybe tank), or gank compared to a machariel.
Granted faction battle ships will destroy NPC's faster than my drones, but having said that are they really nessasery? Does the word "overkill" mean anything to you? I can complete any lvl 4 mission relatively quickly in a cheap and cheerful ship. All I'm trying to say is you don't need a billion ISK ship in order to do lvl 4 missions well. |
Scout1111
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Posted - 2010.12.07 06:06:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Sir Asterix
Originally by: Scout1111 Edited by: Scout1111 on 07/12/2010 05:49:23 If by "just as well", you mean it can COMPLETE missions, then it may do missions "just as well", but that does not mean it will do it with any kind of efficiency, speed, tank (okay maybe tank), or gank compared to a machariel.
Granted faction battle ships will destroy NPC's faster than my drones, but having said that are they really nessasery? Does the word "overkill" mean anything to you? I can complete any lvl 4 mission relatively quickly in a cheap and cheerful ship. All I'm trying to say is you don't need a billion ISK ship in order to do lvl 4 missions well.
Well is good and all, but since you're earning money in the process, many players find it more than useful to use faction ships and gain a much better isk/hr. Especially if they're grinding large amount of missions, the reduced completion time really starts to stack up.
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Eiskaltt
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Posted - 2010.12.07 07:43:00 -
[25]
This talk of Vargur / Nightmare / Paladin is irrelevant to me.. you're talking about them for the salvage, right? I generally bring my noctis along into every mission that's not drones, either dual boxed or played by one of my buddies. :P I'm definitely gonna grab my Machariel and use it again.. Will be fun!
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Evil Stare
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Posted - 2010.12.07 13:46:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Sir Asterix
Originally by: Scout1111 Edited by: Scout1111 on 07/12/2010 05:49:23 If by "just as well", you mean it can COMPLETE missions, then it may do missions "just as well", but that does not mean it will do it with any kind of efficiency, speed, tank (okay maybe tank), or gank compared to a machariel.
Granted faction battle ships will destroy NPC's faster than my drones, but having said that are they really nessasery? Does the word "overkill" mean anything to you? I can complete any lvl 4 mission relatively quickly in a cheap and cheerful ship. All I'm trying to say is you don't need a billion ISK ship in order to do lvl 4 missions well.
If you were a miner, would you rather mine in a Retreiver or a Hulk? I'd guess Hulk. Why? Because it's faster and you make more isk/hour. The same applies for lvl 4's. The upfront cost you pay now, will pay dividents in the long run.
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Cthulhu Fhtagnn
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Posted - 2010.12.08 10:30:00 -
[27]
Any opinions as to which ship is the absolute best (assuming optimal fit, optimal skills and a perfectly free choice of agents, so Nightmare can do Amarr missions, etc.) when it comes to pure blitzing (no looting/salvaging)? Machariel, Nightmare, the CNR, or do the marauders still hold their own? I just happen to hate the process of wreck liquidation (and the subsequent timesinks of actually processing and selling the stuff, which no one seems to count in when boasting with their isk/hr) to an extent where I'm willing to accept a degree of isk/hr loss in order to avoid it.
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Zarbane
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Posted - 2010.12.08 10:43:00 -
[28]
How does the Vargur compare to the Machariel in terms of grinding out fast missions?
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Jayme Meladi
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Posted - 2010.12.08 11:11:00 -
[29]
Edited by: Jayme Meladi on 08/12/2010 11:14:39
Originally by: Zarbane How does the Vargur compare to the Machariel in terms of grinding out fast missions?
They really are quite similar to be honest.
Machariel has slightly more DPS because of the 7 lows + 8.5 effective turrets Vargur has better tracking
I find using a cap booster on a mach laughable. Spend some damn money on a booster and freaking put an afterburner on it. A mach without an afterburner is stunting its potential.
Either way Vargur and Mach are very close. The primary target (Angels) drop tons of armor plates so Vargur typically makes up the loss in DPS with salvage....
@the strange guy trying to claim a Dominix does missions anywhere near as well as a well fit faction/marauder? Lol what?
You spend 1-2bil isk on a mission ship because the modules don't go anywhere and you'll earn all that money back. The rate at which a Mach/Vargur/CNR/Paladin/Nightmare/Golem does missions compared to a Dominix is insane....the big kings of PvE probably run missions two to three times as quickly.
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Von Kapiche
Minmatar
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Posted - 2010.12.08 21:31:00 -
[30]
Originally by: Zarbane How does the Vargur compare to the Machariel in terms of grinding out fast missions?
Near enough to be effectively the same, unless it's a rare mission where the Mach's speed actually matters. Well actually it does make a difference because you can get into the optimal part of the damage envelope for pretty much every rat if you want, but if you compared the two to a Domi then they're effectively the same amount better. Think of the Mach as a BC the size of a BS.
The choice is really if you're going to salvage or not.
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