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Sassums
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Posted - 2010.12.06 19:39:00 -
[1]
Correct me if I'm wrong, but these classes are just the T2 versions of the Frigs and Cruisers, correct?
Reason I'm asking is I have a character in a Frig, and I figured moving him up to an Assault ship (looks like the exact same ship, only a different color) would be a better way to go about completing the missions I am running. They are only level 1, but.
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Truculent Misanthrope
Amarr Generic Internet Spaceships Trading Corp
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Posted - 2010.12.06 19:45:00 -
[2]
A properly put together assault ship(AF) can handle almost any level 3 mission. DPS being the limiting factor. It's complete overkill for a level 1 mission. I think the commonly accepted fastest way to do level 1 missions is in a gank fit Destroyer.
Retribution is amazing for carebearing.
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Alara IonStorm
Agent-Orange Nabaal Syndicate
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Posted - 2010.12.06 19:51:00 -
[3]
Usually the progression of missions is:
Frig LVL 1 < Dessy LVL 1-2 < Cruiser LVL 2 < Battlecruiser LVL 3 < Battleship LVL 4 < Faction/T2 Battleship Faster LVL 4 < Stratigic Cruiser, Anything you want to do.
While T2 Frigates and Cruisers are capable for PVE they are not as effective ISK Per Hour and used for PVP mostly.
Yes they are versions of T1 Ships but they have several advantages. Better Resists, more bonuses, Petter Fitting and more slots.
They are a good investment for PVP once you know how to and have the core skills to fly them effectively.
-- I can not decide on a sig yet.
Under Construction.
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Zhim'Fufu
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Posted - 2010.12.06 19:55:00 -
[4]
For mission running you don't want to linger around in level 1 or even level 2 missions for any longer than it takes to get into a basic hml drake and spam level 3 missions until you get your bs skills up to the level they can run level 4 in a reasonable time. Plus a drake is probably just as easy to get into as an assault frigate training time wise as you don't need a single skill over level 4 to fly it well.
[Drake, All level 4 skills] Ballistic Control System II Ballistic Control System II Ballistic Control System II Power Diagnostic System II
Large Shield Extender II Large Shield Extender II Large Shield Extender II Heat Dissipation Field II <--fit rat specific for these two hardners Explosion Dampening Field II Y-S8 Hydrocarbon I Afterburners
'Malkuth' Heavy Missile Launcher I, Thunderbolt Heavy Missile 'Malkuth' Heavy Missile Launcher I, Thunderbolt Heavy Missile 'Malkuth' Heavy Missile Launcher I, Thunderbolt Heavy Missile 'Malkuth' Heavy Missile Launcher I, Thunderbolt Heavy Missile 'Malkuth' Heavy Missile Launcher I, Thunderbolt Heavy Missile 'Malkuth' Heavy Missile Launcher I, Thunderbolt Heavy Missile 'Malkuth' Heavy Missile Launcher I, Thunderbolt Heavy Missile Small Tractor Beam I
Medium Core Defence Field Purger I Medium Core Defence Field Purger I Medium Core Defence Field Purger I
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Sassums
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Posted - 2010.12.06 21:59:00 -
[5]
Thanks for the help, I have a good amount of defensive skills, but my offensive skills are lacking, which is why I am still on level 1's. I just remapped for Pre/Willpower so now I can train weapon and ship skills.
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Deviana Sevidon
Gallente Panta-Rhei Butterfly Effect Alliance
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Posted - 2010.12.06 23:23:00 -
[6]
After having testet both I can say that a well fitted and flown BS is superior to a strategic cruiser, but at the end of a day it is still a matter of taste.
Strategic cruiser have it a bit easier dealing with small targets and against medium sized ones they really shine, but against large targets the lack of DPS becomes very apparent. The same with most command ships or battle cruisers, while they can be fitted to tank every L4, their lack of damage makes them unattractive from my point of view.
Quote: Disclaimer: All mentioned above contains my opinion and is therefore an absolute truth (for me anyway, my universe, muhahaha.....ok, done
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Alara IonStorm
Agent-Orange Nabaal Syndicate
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Posted - 2010.12.06 23:31:00 -
[7]
Edited by: Alara IonStorm on 06/12/2010 23:31:30
Originally by: Deviana Sevidon After having testet both I can say that a well fitted and flown BS is superior to a strategic cruiser, but at the end of a day it is still a matter of taste.
Strategic cruiser have it a bit easier dealing with small targets and against medium sized ones they really shine, but against large targets the lack of DPS becomes very apparent. The same with most command ships or battle cruisers, while they can be fitted to tank every L4, their lack of damage makes them unattractive from my point of view.
The draw of the Tech 3 should not have anything to do with missions unless they are pirate missions. The reason to use one over a battleship is safty in dangerous space that you would not enjoy with a Battleship while raking in higher rewards.
But for straight up PVE in secure space a battleship will do you better.
-- I can not decide on a sig yet.
Under Construction.
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Dorn Val
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Posted - 2010.12.07 08:26:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Alara IonStorm The draw of the Tech 3 should not have anything to do with missions unless they are pirate missions. The reason to use one over a battleship is safty in dangerous space that you would not enjoy with a Battleship while raking in higher rewards.
But for straight up PVE in secure space a battleship will do you better.
^ This. IMHO a Tech III cruiser is one of the best exploration ships in the game, but for running LVL4 missions you're better off in a Battleship because you'll need drones. Primary weapons, drones, and cloaking are all offensive Strategic Cruiser subsystems and you can only fit one of them. Having to choose between really good primary weapon damage or drones makes a Strategic Cruiser a bad choice for running LVL4s -it can be done, but it's easier in a Battleship...
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Jennifer Starling
Amarr
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Posted - 2010.12.07 12:53:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Truculent Misanthrope A properly put together assault ship(AF) can handle almost any level 3 mission. DPS being the limiting factor.
Nah easily ALL L3s and even a few L4s.
Your DPS is kind of low though, you can speed/resist tank everything but it takes quite a while to kill everything. Some L4s have ships that repair more damage than you can do with an AF.
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Skex Relbore
Gallente Red Federation
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Posted - 2010.12.07 19:26:00 -
[10]
Just follow the frig cruiser BC BS route. frigs and dessies for L1s cruisers for L2s BC's for L3's and BS for L4s, though if you are Gal I'd just get into a Domi asap since that's you can do most L3s just fine with it but you'll want your Med skills anyway.
A semi effective BS is the speed route to L4 income. You won't be racking up the 10's of millions of isk per hour that many claim with a low skilled BS but you will be able to handle most if not all L4s much quicker with far lower total SP than it would take to make a T2 or T3 ship effective in it's stead.
Just don't neglect those drone skills. If you are planning on running missions you gotta have at least T2 medium drones with decent (read level4) support skills. You'll need your drones to kill those pesky scrambling rats because those are the ones that are going to cost you your ship.
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Sassums
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Posted - 2010.12.09 21:03:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Skex Relbore Just follow the frig cruiser BC BS route. frigs and dessies for L1s cruisers for L2s BC's for L3's and BS for L4s, though if you are Gal I'd just get into a Domi asap since that's you can do most L3s just fine with it but you'll want your Med skills anyway.
A semi effective BS is the speed route to L4 income. You won't be racking up the 10's of millions of isk per hour that many claim with a low skilled BS but you will be able to handle most if not all L4s much quicker with far lower total SP than it would take to make a T2 or T3 ship effective in it's stead.
Just don't neglect those drone skills. If you are planning on running missions you gotta have at least T2 medium drones with decent (read level4) support skills. You'll need your drones to kill those pesky scrambling rats because those are the ones that are going to cost you your ship.
What are classes as support skills for drones, which I believe you are referring to?
And off topic, the T3 Recon ships would be good for exploration?
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Hitman107
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Posted - 2010.12.10 00:00:00 -
[12]
When missioning there's two very popular "trees" that you can take.
First is go caldari and get into a drake fast as you can. Drakes can run any mission but are a bit slow in most lvl 4s. After the drake you get into a Raven which runs lvl 4s fairly fast, then into a golem which is hell on wheels for missions.
The second tree would be gallente. Get into a vexor for lvl 2s, then a myrmidon for lvl 2s and 3s, then finally into a dominix or an ishtar. Both of those with good drone skills can pretty much run any mission with decent speed, esp the ishtar. Another option here is the navy domi on which you have the fitting capacity for both drones and guns. The kronos though is kinda meh.
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Irida Mershkov
Gallente Tribal Liberation Force
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Posted - 2010.12.10 01:22:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Sassums
Originally by: Skex Relbore Just follow the frig cruiser BC BS route. frigs and dessies for L1s cruisers for L2s BC's for L3's and BS for L4s, though if you are Gal I'd just get into a Domi asap since that's you can do most L3s just fine with it but you'll want your Med skills anyway.
A semi effective BS is the speed route to L4 income. You won't be racking up the 10's of millions of isk per hour that many claim with a low skilled BS but you will be able to handle most if not all L4s much quicker with far lower total SP than it would take to make a T2 or T3 ship effective in it's stead.
Just don't neglect those drone skills. If you are planning on running missions you gotta have at least T2 medium drones with decent (read level4) support skills. You'll need your drones to kill those pesky scrambling rats because those are the ones that are going to cost you your ship.
What are classes as support skills for drones, which I believe you are referring to?
Drone support skills are listed as: Specialisation skills (for the T2 variants). You'll want Gallente and Minmatar specced to IV for the T2 heavies I think. Drone Durability. Drone Interfacing. Drone Navigation. Drone Sharpshooting. Scout Drone Operation. (I think this is required to V anyway)
Those are the support skills for drones, interfacing is the critical one with navigation as they allow your drones to be pretty damn speedy and powerful which helps them mop up the spawns a lot faster than without.
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Culmen
Caldari Blood Phage Syndicate
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Posted - 2010.12.10 01:51:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Hitman107 When missioning there's two very popular "trees" that you can take.
First is go caldari and get into a drake fast as you can. Drakes can run any mission but are a bit slow in most lvl 4s. After the drake you get into a Raven which runs lvl 4s fairly fast, then into a golem which is hell on wheels for missions.
The second tree would be gallente. Get into a vexor for lvl 2s, then a myrmidon for lvl 2s and 3s, then finally into a dominix or an ishtar. Both of those with good drone skills can pretty much run any mission with decent speed, esp the ishtar. Another option here is the navy domi on which you have the fitting capacity for both drones and guns. The kronos though is kinda meh.
You forgot the way of the Machariel.
Which is Rifter -> Thrasher -> Hurricane ->Maelstrom -> Machariel With an optional detour to a Vargur after the Maelstrom and further more why do i even need a sig? |
Sassums
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Posted - 2010.12.10 04:41:00 -
[15]
So I guess I am still confused on what an Assault ship and Heavy Assault ship are good for, they are just the T2 ships for Frigs and Cruisers correct?
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DjLowballer
Amarr Firebird Squadron
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Posted - 2010.12.10 05:14:00 -
[16]
They are good for PvP. All T2 ships are just T1 ships with better resists and other bonuses.
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Jennifer Starling
Amarr
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Posted - 2010.12.10 10:53:00 -
[17]
Edited by: Jennifer Starling on 10/12/2010 10:54:38
Originally by: Sassums So I guess I am still confused on what an Assault ship and Heavy Assault ship are good for, they are just the T2 ships for Frigs and Cruisers correct?
Yes, basically they are.
There's more T2 ships though, the "assault" line of ships is usually focussed on heavy damage dealing.
- Btw another line of progressing is: Rifter -> Jaguar -> Hurricane -> Maelstrom (skipping cruisers) * The advantage is that you don't really have to invest heavily in missisle skills. * Another advantage is that all of these can use shield tanks. I find that a Jaguar (assault frigate) does L2 missions a lot easier than cruisers do, due to its resists, speed and small weapons that don't suffer any tracking issues. In L3s they begin to suffer from limited DPS issues, even though you can still do the Blockade L3 in it.
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Salpad
Caldari Carebears with Attitude
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Posted - 2010.12.10 20:06:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Jennifer Starling There's more T2 ships though, the "assault" line of ships is usually focussed on heavy damage dealing.
Sometimes it's a bit theoretical, though, this "focused on heavy damage dealing" thing.
The Hawk (T2 Assault), for instance, used to have much lower DPS than the Kestrel, a T1 frigate. The Hawk is getting a boost soon (or have gotten it already. I'm not clear on exactly what happens when w.r.t. patches), but in terms of raw DPS that will only bring it on par with the Kestrel. It has more slots and better fit stats, though, and much better tank, even if the tank bonus is wrong (a bonus to active tank, WTF?).
Also, while the Cerberus (T2 Heavy Assault) is a ganky ship, it spends two of its four bonuses on missile range. Assault implies that the ships were designed in-game with a focus on combat, i.e tank and tank, and the Cerberus is much more like a sniper ship.
Maybe it's just me, but HICs look kinda interesting. I'm in the process of inputting ship stats into a spreadsheet (for internal corp use only, sorry, but then again I'm just collecting publically available information) for the purpose of comparing ships, and I haven't made up my mind yet at all, but the Caldari misisle HIC (Onyx?) is definitely somewhat interesting, even ignoring the Interdictor function it has. Same way the Flycatcher is (it might be fun ganking Sansha incursors in a T2 destroyer).
-- Salpad |
Julien Brellier
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Posted - 2010.12.11 03:58:00 -
[19]
IMO, the Ishkur is the finest Assault Ship out there. This is for both pve and pvp.
For pve, having a full flight of 5 light drones, 3x T2 railguns, high speed and T2 resists means you can do any L3 and some L4 missions!
For pvp, again having 5 drones plus spares on board can make a huge difference to your DPS.
Love that ship.
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Sassums
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Posted - 2010.12.13 04:47:00 -
[20]
Thanks, I would be looking at the way for Gallente, since that is what I have been training in.
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oldmanst4r
Minmatar The Society for Raping and Pillaging masternerdguy
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Posted - 2010.12.13 05:44:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Alara IonStorm Edited by: Alara IonStorm on 06/12/2010 23:31:30
Originally by: Deviana Sevidon After having testet both I can say that a well fitted and flown BS is superior to a strategic cruiser, but at the end of a day it is still a matter of taste.
Strategic cruiser have it a bit easier dealing with small targets and against medium sized ones they really shine, but against large targets the lack of DPS becomes very apparent. The same with most command ships or battle cruisers, while they can be fitted to tank every L4, their lack of damage makes them unattractive from my point of view.
The draw of the Tech 3 should not have anything to do with missions unless they are pirate missions. The reason to use one over a battleship is safty in dangerous space that you would not enjoy with a Battleship while raking in higher rewards.
But for straight up PVE in secure space a battleship will do you better.
Tengu rocks for lvl4s, though I'll admit the CNR is a tad faster for most missions. I like strategic cruisers because they are fast and indestructible. The tank on those things is just ungodly. You just kind of zip around the mission pewing everything in sight and don't really have to worry about things like cap charges and pulsing your shield booster and stuff.
Some people might find that boring, but I don't mission for excitement and I'd prefer to have to pay the least amount of attention as possible while still operating as close as I can to maximum efficiency. Thus, the Tengu suits me perfectly.
Originally by: CCP Shadow
*snip* Castration successful. Shadow.
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Headerman
Minmatar Metanoia. Test Alliance Please Ignore
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Posted - 2010.12.13 06:34:00 -
[22]
Definately keep up with the drone skills, even if they are only light drones.
I have found a bunch of warrior's make an excellent way to reduce incoming DPS on L5 missions. Soon as you warp in, chuck them out and go for the frigs. If they die, keep chucking more out and kill the rats. Makes for an amusing mission :)
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Nefrums
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Posted - 2010.12.13 08:09:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Truculent Misanthrope I think the commonly accepted fastest way to do level 1 missions is in a gank fit Destroyer.
I put together a buffer tanked interceptor for running L1 cosmos missions. I think it was faster then a Destroyer because you spend only 10% of the mission time shooting and the rest of the time flying around.
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Deviana Sevidon
Gallente Panta-Rhei Butterfly Effect Alliance
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Posted - 2010.12.13 13:19:00 -
[24]
Originally by: oldmanst4r
Tengu rocks for lvl4s, though I'll admit the CNR is a tad faster for most missions. I like strategic cruisers because they are fast and indestructible. The tank on those things is just ungodly. You just kind of zip around the mission pewing everything in sight and don't really have to worry about things like cap charges and pulsing your shield booster and stuff.
Some people might find that boring, but I don't mission for excitement and I'd prefer to have to pay the least amount of attention as possible while still operating as close as I can to maximum efficiency. Thus, the Tengu suits me perfectly.
Personally I would say that I am about 50% to 100% faster in a Machariel or a Vargur over a Tengu. With an AB the range of Autocannons is not much of a problem and with a Webber on my Machariel I can easily hit even cruiser sized targets kill them with 2-4 volleys, leaving any boring Caldari missile spammer far behind.
Quote: Disclaimer: All mentioned above contains my opinion and is therefore an absolute truth (for me anyway, my universe, muhahaha.....ok, done
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Sean Faust
Gallente Point of No Return Waterboard
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Posted - 2010.12.13 15:10:00 -
[25]
Assault ships and Heavy assault ships are steroid-injected versions of each race's most heavily combat-oriented versions of frigates and cruisers. And yes, you can complete up to and including level 3 missions with an Assault ship. It's not very cost-effective, however, as you don't have the DPS to be able to kill things as quickly as you could in a BC. It is fun though and can teach you important lessons about gameplay mechanics that you wouldn't have learned if you were doing the missions in a ship that could simply tank all the incoming DPS while sitting still.
In PVP Assault ships generally perform well solo but suffer in gangs where other equivalent ships with more focused roles dominate.
Heavy assault ships are another story entirely. With a few notable exceptions (Ishtar, for instance), they generally perform poorly as mission ships (for level 4s). They were designed exclusively to perform specific roles in PVP. Those roles are:
Amarr -Sacrilege - Solo. -Zealot - Medium range anti-support sniper Caldari -Cerberus - Long range missile sniper -Eagle - Long range railgun sniper Gallente -Deimos - Heavy tackle/Solo -Ishtar - Drone ship (drones are versatile enough to allow the ship to be configured to do whatever you want) Minmatar -Muninn - Artillery Sniper -Vagabond - Anti-Support/Heavy tackle
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Sassums
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Posted - 2010.12.21 02:03:00 -
[26]
Edited by: Sassums on 21/12/2010 02:05:22 Ah thanks for the help, I guess I am looking for help on what I should be using for PVE missions, and then of course what kind of ships I should be using for PVP.
I trained up to level 4 in Assault ships, but it sounds like I should be using Cruisers, Battle Cruisers, or Battleships.
Is one level ship (Cruisers, Battle Cruiser, etc) better for each level mission? How do I get higher level missions, right now all I am working on are level 1's, which are slow going.
Also what weapons go with each class?
I know my Assault ships use small hybrid turrets because I am Gallente, but if I wanted to put a railgun on it, what MM would I use?
Cruisers are medium turrets I assume?
Battle Cruisers are large, or do battle ships use large?
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Lady Skank
Ban Evasion inc
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Posted - 2010.12.21 05:10:00 -
[27]
Battlecruisers use medium weapons the same as Cruisers, BS ships use large weapons.
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Emiko Luan
Gallente
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Posted - 2010.12.21 06:59:00 -
[28]
also railguns are still hybrid weapons (and come in small medium large etc.)
You should have the standing to get better missions if you've been doing level 1s for a long time, try to search for better agents. Good luck ^^ --- +Welcome to my world+ |
Salpad
Caldari Carebears with Attitude
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Posted - 2010.12.21 09:31:00 -
[29]
You should fly level 1 missions in a frigate or destroyer.
Level 2 missions should be flown in a cruiser, preferably fitted with anti-frigate weapons (small weapons), because for every rat cruiesr you meet, you'll enounter a dozen smaller rats, or maybe lvl 2s can also be flown well in a destroyer (which naturally fits anti-frigate sized weapons).
Level 3 missions should be flown in a battlecruiser (and using medium weapons), and level 4 missions in a battleship (and using large weapons).
A frigate or destroyer, or any of their T2 versions (except the Stealth Bomber) should fit weapons from the "small category".
A cruiser or battlecruiser normally fits "medium" weapons, but if you're flying a missile ship, you can fit Assault Missile Launchers which do very well on lvl 2 missions.
A battleship normally fits "large" weapons.
As for drones, I always just use light/small drones. In a smallish ship you won't have the drone bay volume for medium or large drones, and in a large ship, your drones are your best weapon against small targets.
-- Salpad |
Salpad
Caldari Carebears with Attitude
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Posted - 2010.12.21 09:33:00 -
[30]
Sorry, forgot to add this: Also train the Connections skill to level 4. That will give you access to level 2 missions immediately. -- Salpad |
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