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Gaboth Zaradath
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Posted - 2010.12.06 22:42:00 -
[1]
It really isn't that hard to identify and stop macros in EVE without human intervention.
It relies on two simple facts:
1) Any human being needs a certain amount of sleep every week
2) Each account is controlled by only one person (The EULA states that you may not share accounts)
From this it is extremely easy to find out if certain accounts are being run by macros.
The time you have spent playing EVE is recorded. The times where you log in/off is also recorded. CCP could then make a program that uses this data, combined with an afk-detector (By recording the last time the user did any action- e.g., loading the market or aligning their ship) to easily find accounts that are being played more than humanly possible.
If the program finds an account that has been online for a suspicious amount of time over the last week- e.g, an average of 22 hours active a day, that account could then be under suspicion of being controlled by a macro, or multiple users. Either way is breaking the ELUA.
When any account goes under suspicion of being a macro, it could be automatically banned until the owner can prove that he/she was the only user. and was infact somehow managing to play for that amount of time.
I'm not saying this is the solution to macros- but it can help reduce their impact on the rest of the EVE community- If they have to run their macros for less than 16 hours a day instead of 23 to keep under the macro-detector radar & keep their macro accounts from being banned, it still severely reduces their output of ore/ice/bounties.
You probably already know why this would be good for the rest of us, but anyway:
Positive Impacts
- The amount of wealth collected from each macro will decrease substantially. Macro Miners will collect less ore, Macro Ratters will collect less bounties & loot.
- This means that the value of Ore/Ice will go up- more profit for miners
- Less influx of drone loot from Russian space will also help to raise the value of minerals
- Less ISK from bounties by Macro ratters means less ISK injected into the EVE economy- less inflation
One huge reason that CCP would be reluctant to impose many ideas about getting rid of Macros is simply that CCP gets money off them too, and that banning them would reduce their income. However, with this idea, Macros will still be able to run without the risk of being banned- as long as their owners modify it so that the macro spends less time online than before to seem more human-like.
In essence, The number of macro accounts will probably not drop by much, but their effects on the rest of us will diminish greatly. It is even possible that a few macro controllers will subscribe more accounts so that they can regain the same output that they did before. (But this means more cash for CCP)
TLDR: Macros are far less effective- therefore having less of a negative impact on everyone else, and/or CCP gains more revenue.
If anyone has suggestions/criticisms- please fire away.
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Herping yourDerp
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Posted - 2010.12.06 22:46:00 -
[2]
hi, i log on, and stay logged on each day, i also dont log out untill downtime.
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Jaari Val'Dara
Caldari Atomic Zeppelins BricK sQuAD.
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Posted - 2010.12.06 22:50:00 -
[3]
Originally by: Herping yourDerp hi, i log on, and stay logged on each day, i also dont log out untill downtime.
+1, at least 80% of time I'm logged on I'm afk. This detector would need to monitor actual play and not just online time.
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Gaboth Zaradath
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Posted - 2010.12.06 22:53:00 -
[4]
Originally by: Herping yourDerp hi, i log on, and stay logged on each day, i also dont log out untill downtime.
I did mention this:
Quote: combined with an afk-detector (By recording the last time the user did any action- e.g., loading the market or aligning their ship)
So if you don't do anything, it would consider you afk
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LordElfa
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Posted - 2010.12.06 23:03:00 -
[5]
...Or CCP could just develop some sort of actual macro detector for the game that detects active macros running that intersect with Eve.
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Gaboth Zaradath
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Posted - 2010.12.06 23:10:00 -
[6]
Originally by: LordElfa ...Or CCP could just develop some sort of actual macro detector for the game that detects active macros running that intersect with Eve.
The problem is, macros tend to be completely untraceable, as they don't modify any game files. For example, an advanced mining bot 'reads' the client by looking at the color of each pixel. Some basic ones are just mouse recordings that keep repeating. Either way, there is no way the client can tell whether a macro is being used on it or not. The people who make them make sure they can't be detected.
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LordElfa
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Posted - 2010.12.06 23:38:00 -
[7]
How about scanning for someone performing the exact same functions at the same intervals for more than a certain time over and over again.
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Scatim Helicon
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
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Posted - 2010.12.06 23:43:00 -
[8]
Originally by: LordElfa How about scanning for someone performing the exact same functions at the same intervals for more than a certain time over and over again.
Works for about a week, at most, until somebody adds a slight randomised delay to all actions the macro carries out.
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De'Veldrin
Minmatar Green-Core The Obsidian Legion
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Posted - 2010.12.06 23:44:00 -
[9]
Edited by: De''Veldrin on 06/12/2010 23:45:07 Edit: Damnit Scatim. Beat me to it.
--Vel
I'm more of a care-badger. |
Jason Edwards
Internet Tough Guy Spreadsheets Online
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Posted - 2010.12.07 03:50:00 -
[10]
macro miners are paying customers just like you. Why the discrimination and hatred. Macro miners should post to request normal players are banned. ------------------------ To make a megathron from scratch, you must first invent the eve universe.
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Arkanor
Ixion Defence Systems
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Posted - 2010.12.07 03:52:00 -
[11]
Originally by: LordElfa How about scanning for someone performing the exact same functions at the same intervals for more than a certain time over and over again.
Most macros have programmed randomization to make this impossible.
In short, there's no way to actually detect them short of installing a rootkit on the PC, and screw that. I don't really see much problem with this solution provided the AFK timeout isn't long enough to actually compromise someone's play (if for example, they idled the client all day and made some clicks here and there every 10-15 minutes).
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Bobbeh
Minmatar Navy of Xoc Wildly Inappropriate.
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Posted - 2010.12.07 03:54:00 -
[12]
i agree with the idea but not the way you wish to do it.
As some people play more than others....
The basic way to tell the difference between a macro and a human is routine, both the macro and the human have routine but one is tied to code and there for will strictly followed the other is human and therefore has judgement. If you simply had a program that just checked people killing npcs and watched them, you could easily tell if they are a macroer or a human. If theres a mass log in a system and all the accounts are tied to one IP then investigate
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Cyprus Black
Caldari Ministry of Destruction SCUM.
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Posted - 2010.12.07 04:52:00 -
[13]
But then how will I afk cloak? I need to terrorize null sec residents while I'm at work. _______________________________________
When you say "plz" because it's shorter than "please", I say "no" because it's shorter than "yes".
Grammar and spelling count. |
Aphrodite Skripalle
Galactic Defence Consortium
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Posted - 2010.12.07 07:14:00 -
[14]
This implies that ccp is interested in getting rid of makro users. They dont show to me, that they really are. For me it looks like they dont care.
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Tres Farmer
Gallente Federation Intelligence Service
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Posted - 2010.12.07 09:44:00 -
[15]
nice.. 3 answers so far who didn't read the OP and simply stated that their afk'ing will be considered macro.. LOL
support Public Idea Tracker | 24hr PLEX |
Venkul Mul
Gallente
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Posted - 2010.12.07 09:48:00 -
[16]
Edited by: Venkul Mul on 07/12/2010 09:50:47
Originally by: Jaari Val'Dara
Originally by: Herping yourDerp hi, i log on, and stay logged on each day, i also dont log out untill downtime.
+1, at least 80% of time I'm logged on I'm afk. This detector would need to monitor actual play and not just online time.
And to accept autopiloting as AFK.
I think CCP is already doing something along those lines. The problem is that after detecting the suspicious accounts they need the manpower to check them to see if they are single players running a homemade macro (so people that will get a temporary ban) or members of a RMT cartel, so worthy of further investigations so that CCP could ban the whole ring and not the easy to replace miners/ratters.
The key word is manpower. People cost real life money, CCP is a company and profit is the main goal, so there is a limit of the resources they can and will spend on fighting macros.
Note that even if CCP is using that kind of scan routine for macro they will never say that they are using it. That way it will be easier for the to catch the home made macro ("professional" macro users, I think, are perfectly aware that running macro 23/7 will flag them as suspects).
Quote: When any account goes under suspicion of being a macro, it could be automatically banned until the owner can prove that he/she was the only user. and was infact somehow managing to play for that amount of time.
Automatically banned for a suspicion .... No
If CCP were to implement that they would get tons of false positive and spent a lot of time and manpower 8again) to sort them.
The net result would be less people fighting RTM and more people following petitions from banned people.
Exactly the opposite of what you want.
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Gaboth Zaradath
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Posted - 2010.12.07 17:27:00 -
[17]
Edited by: Gaboth Zaradath on 07/12/2010 17:28:55
Originally by: Venkul Mul
I think CCP is already doing something along those lines. The problem is that after detecting the suspicious accounts they need the manpower to check them to see if they are single players running a homemade macro (so people that will get a temporary ban) or members of a RMT cartel, so worthy of further investigations so that CCP could ban the whole ring and not the easy to replace miners/ratters.
The key word is manpower. People cost real life money, CCP is a company and profit is the main goal, so there is a limit of the resources they can and will spend on fighting macros.
Note that even if CCP is using that kind of scan routine for macro they will never say that they are using it. That way it will be easier for the to catch the home made macro ("professional" macro users, I think, are perfectly aware that running macro 23/7 will flag them as suspects).
CCP (thankfully) is already putting alot of effort into catching RMT rings. I know that macros are a different priority for CCP as it does not directly affect their income. Thats why I suggested that they implement this program which means that they don't have to use up much, if any, manpower at all combating macros.
Originally by: Venkul Mul
Originally by: Gaboth Zaradath When any account goes under suspicion of being a macro, it could be automatically banned until the owner can prove that he/she was the only user. and was infact somehow managing to play for that amount of time.
Automatically banned for a suspicion .... No If CCP were to implement that they would get tons of false positive and spent a lot of time and manpower 8again) to sort them. The net result would be less people fighting RTM and more people following petitions from banned people. Exactly the opposite of what you want.
I probably should not have used the term 'suspicion' in retrospect:
Lets be honest- Can you think of any excuse for anyone being able to play EVE constantly for an entire week with only 1-2 hours of sleep every day? (I did search for sleeping disorders that means that it is impossible to have more than a few hours of sleep every day, but there just aren't any)
Sure, a few adults are able to survive on 4-5 hours every day, but they only do that because they have busy jobs or duties.
At that point, you have to ask- if there was someone mining or ratting for 22 hours every day, would you think its someone who can survive on just a few hours of sleep constantly, and spends all his/her time playing the same game for 22 hours every day, or a bot?
I honestly don't think there would any false-positives at all at that point. Hardly a suspicion & more like a certainty.
In that case I do agree that it would be a waste on CCP's resources making it petitionable, as all the petitions would be from the macro users trying to blag that they were not using macros.
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