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Trebor Daehdoow
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Posted - 2010.12.09 11:55:00 -
[1]
Below are the current session topics for the CSM December Summit.
As meeting time is limited, and CCP has reserved some sessions to discuss topics of concern to them, there will no doubt be some issues of interest to each of you that are not on the agenda at this particular summit.
The CSM would like to encourage everyone to provide us with feedback about the topics, questions they would like answered, insights they would like us to consider, and so on.
A different perspective - CORE : How the Core group works and interacts with the various projects.
Incarna Game Play and Vision : What is the vision for incarna (more concrete than "walking in stations" and "ultimate sci-fi simulator") and what is planned to have as gameplay in the Incarna spring/summer 2011 release. (Double Session)
Incarna NPE and CQ : New Player Experience in Incarna and the Captain's Quarters.
Virtual Goods : Current status, future and messaging.
QA at CCP : How EVE is quality tested; discussion of test environments, partners, and processes; QA's involvement in patches; how CSM and QA might work together, particularly to raise QA's profile and credibility with players; and whatever else comes up. (Double Session)
Security Measures : New account security measures.
Economics/EVE Economy : The state of the economy and where it is heading. How is the economy broken and what will be done to fix it. Likely to include a RMT discussion. (Double Session)
User Interface : The current state (challenges) and future plans for the EVE UI, Briefing on UI limitations (as a guide to help CSM craft more realistic proposals in the future), Discussion of current high-priority CSM UI proposals, with an eye to reprioritization, feasibility, and iterating to improve feasibility.
Game Balance Requests by Players
CSM Processes, Tools, and Evolution : Review of what is working well and what could work better; CSM access to info as discussed with Nathan in October; prospects for proposal-related tool support from CCP; need (or not) for more structure/accountability as CSM role evolves from experiment to integration; ways to support continuity across terms.
Game Design talk to the CSM : Game Design wants to do an unorthodox session with the CSM (Double Session)
Post Dominion 0.0 : Multiple subjects lumped into one; specifics are incoming. (Triple Session)
Assembly idea (CSM tools) : CCP Assembly like tool for CSM - player to raise topics, discuss ideas etc.
CSM Issues / Release Planning : Standard discussion about the items on our Dev Priorities List that will be submitted soonish after the Summit in time for the next Release Planning meetings.
CSM Activities at FanFest 2011 : Brainstorming ideas about enhancing visibility for the CSM and how we might engage players in fun ways.
Confessions of a Noob Starship Politician The most expensive free trip to Iceland you'll ever win!
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ROXGenghis
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Posted - 2010.12.09 14:22:00 -
[2]
I'd like to see you challenge CCP on Botting and RMT. We all know they exist, but recent posts on the-forum-that-shall-not-be-named have raised awareness on the magnitude of the problem. That is to say, game-breaking. That is, if you believe the posts, which if you take as even 10% accurate are still quite disturbing.
Horus's post halfway down this page: http://www.k********n.com/showthread.php?7212-The-summer-of-10-an-expose-on-RMT/page8
Which led to this interview: http://www.evenews24.com/2010/12/08/rmt-uncovered-the-interview/
and elicited this response by Isaac der Grimnebulin: http://www.k********n.com/showthread.php?7212-The-summer-of-10-an-expose-on-RMT/page32
...with the whole issue causing many threads in eve-o forums.
And platitudes from CCP like "unholy rage" and "it's not a big problem" won't cut it.
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Grady Eltoren
Minmatar Aviation Professionals for EVE
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Posted - 2010.12.09 14:42:00 -
[3]
Botting like in the above post is a major concern of mine.
Also:
War on Lag: Specifically can CCP (through process of elimination on Sisi, etc) try and pin down more actual choke points like missiles and how they work so that we can look at fundamentally changing or addressing those tough issues. Anything else is a bandaid (quick fix) and we all know how EVE players feel about that.
Leading into my last topic - Please give them high praise for their work on balance issues and outstanding problems in Incursion. I (like many others) are EXTREMELY happy with CCP in this regard. A lot of credit goes to this round of CSM candidates as well but please provide them that feedback so that we can keep it moving forward. Any other balancing issues; whether creative ideas to move away from isk Faucets, fix more longstanding problems (FOF missiles, corp management interface, the EVE GUI, etc, etc) are greatly appreciated!!
Thanks CSM!
Aviation Professionals for EVE (APEVE)
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Jaik7
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Posted - 2010.12.09 15:00:00 -
[4]
the only thing i particularly care about is whether i can make more isk working on whatever you've got set up for station walking than i can in the belts with my lasers.
how will we make isk there? the most concrete response i've gotten so far is that we can set up bars and such. if this is so, how will it be different from CafeWorld?
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Silen Boon
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Posted - 2010.12.09 15:24:00 -
[5]
The resent articles regarding macros and botting do concern me. Banning accounts is one way to tackle the problem, but is reactive, rather then proactive. Could CCP do more to protect their client from abuse?
The War on lag is never ending. Fleets increase in size according to a node's capacity to handle them. Should CCP be maintaining nodes beyond their ability to maintain a playable environment?
Just because a node doesn't crash, does not mean a node can maintain a good player experience. Can anything be introduced in to the game mechanics that can mitigate and balance the effect of lag on the parties concerned?
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Max Kolonko
Caldari Worm Nation Ash Alliance
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Posted - 2010.12.09 16:33:00 -
[6]
Originally by: ROXGenghis I'd like to see you challenge CCP on Botting and RMT. We all know they exist, but recent posts on the-forum-that-shall-not-be-named have raised awareness on the magnitude of the problem. That is to say, game-breaking. That is, if you believe the posts, which if you take as even 10% accurate are still quite disturbing.
Horus's post halfway down this page: http://www.k********n.com/showthread.php?7212-The-summer-of-10-an-expose-on-RMT/page8
Which led to this interview: http://www.evenews24.com/2010/12/08/rmt-uncovered-the-interview/
and elicited this response by Isaac der Grimnebulin: http://www.k********n.com/showthread.php?7212-The-summer-of-10-an-expose-on-RMT/page32
...with the whole issue causing many threads in eve-o forums.
And platitudes from CCP like "unholy rage" and "it's not a big problem" won't cut it.
THIS!!!!!
All other topics became irrelevant after i've read that article.
Max Kolonko |
Mynxee
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Posted - 2010.12.09 17:26:00 -
[7]
A little update: CCP has acknowledged player concerns about RMT; it appears that RMT will indeed be discussed during the Economics session.
Life In Low Sec |
Vincent Athena
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Posted - 2010.12.09 18:15:00 -
[8]
Has CCP acknowledged the problem of bots making isk for proposes other than RMT, like propping up a 0.0 alliance, or just for personal use?
That too need to be discusssed, and should be part of the "how is the EVE economy broken" discussion.
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Turix
Interstellar eXodus BricK sQuAD.
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Posted - 2010.12.09 21:25:00 -
[9]
In addition to the RMT discussions, I would like to see this extended to the use of 3rd party programs in general (Bots/Hack/Whatever you want to call them) to automate or ease gameplay. It would be nice to at least some information flowing back from CCP on this issue; they ask a lot from the players to report and find these people in game - time for the players to see an outcome of this! __________________________
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Seraphina Amaranth
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Posted - 2010.12.09 21:38:00 -
[10]
Segueing from 3rd party apps:
Capsuleer has shut down. Eve-metrics is shutting down. (frankly, considering the huge amount of resources necessary for a site like this, I'm surprised that eve-central and all the rest haven't as well)
What is CCP's strategy to support community-created third party tools?
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Herping yourDerp
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Posted - 2010.12.09 21:39:00 -
[11]
please confront CCP on Botters macro miners/ratters/ect Hackers/stolen accounts
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EdFromHumanResources
Caldari GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
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Posted - 2010.12.10 06:32:00 -
[12]
I am sure this is going to be asked already but just to be sure
Incarna: Why the **** should people who don't care about the RP aspects ever touch this "feature"? Will they force us to do in five minutes what we currently do in 5 seconds? IE Repairs, fitting, dealing with agents, etc Seriously, what does Incarna bring to the table beyond a more person shaped internet spaceship chat room?
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Jason Edwards
Internet Tough Guy Spreadsheets Online
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Posted - 2010.12.10 18:50:00 -
[13]
Where's the new jump drive effect damnit. ------------------------ To make a megathron from scratch, you must first invent the eve universe.
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Casiella Truza
Ghost Festival Naraka.
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Posted - 2010.12.10 21:33:00 -
[14]
Definitely more information on botting and RMT. With all the deep technical insight and talent they have there, I have difficulty believing that they've not found ways to escalate the war against cheating.
Also, please don't let CCP slip on fiction and content. Just like other issues, those of us with a significant interest in this area have seen projects get dropped (epic arcs, fiction "patching", etc.). Abraxas and Dropbear are the point men on this, as far as I can tell.
--
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Rakshasa Taisab
Caldari Sane Industries Inc. Initiative Mercenaries
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Posted - 2010.12.11 03:07:00 -
[15]
Originally by: EdFromHumanResources I am sure this is going to be asked already but just to be sure
Incarna: Why the **** should people who don't care about the RP aspects ever touch this "feature"? Will they force us to do in five minutes what we currently do in 5 seconds? IE Repairs, fitting, dealing with agents, etc ...
Just cause you are goon doesn't mean you are _required_ to act stupid and ignore everything CCP has said regarding that issue...
In any case, CCP really needs to start being more active in hunting non-RMT botters, as has been mentioned.
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EdFromHumanResources
Caldari GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
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Posted - 2010.12.11 03:39:00 -
[16]
Edited by: EdFromHumanResources on 11/12/2010 03:43:06
Originally by: Rakshasa Taisab
Originally by: EdFromHumanResources I am sure this is going to be asked already but just to be sure
Incarna: Why the **** should people who don't care about the RP aspects ever touch this "feature"? Will they force us to do in five minutes what we currently do in 5 seconds? IE Repairs, fitting, dealing with agents, etc ...
Just cause you are goon doesn't mean you are _required_ to act stupid and ignore everything CCP has said regarding that issue...
In any case, CCP really needs to start being more active in hunting non-RMT botters, as has been mentioned.
How long you been playing this game? What CCP said six months ago has literally no bearing on their design today.
edit: Lol at the alliance who gave us this calling me stupid.
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Candente
Caldari
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Posted - 2010.12.11 19:26:00 -
[17]
Originally by: EdFromHumanResources I am sure this is going to be asked already but just to be sure
Incarna: Why the **** should people who don't care about the RP aspects ever touch this "feature"? Will they force us to do in five minutes what we currently do in 5 seconds? IE Repairs, fitting, dealing with agents, etc Seriously, what does Incarna bring to the table beyond a more person shaped internet spaceship chat room?
Where exactly does Incarna feature description say that it will take 5 minutes to do repairs, fitting, and dealing with agents? ------------- rawr~ |
EdFromHumanResources
Caldari GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
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Posted - 2010.12.11 20:51:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Candente
Originally by: EdFromHumanResources I am sure this is going to be asked already but just to be sure
Incarna: Why the **** should people who don't care about the RP aspects ever touch this "feature"? Will they force us to do in five minutes what we currently do in 5 seconds? IE Repairs, fitting, dealing with agents, etc Seriously, what does Incarna bring to the table beyond a more person shaped internet spaceship chat room?
Where exactly does Incarna feature description say that it will take 5 minutes to do repairs, fitting, and dealing with agents?
If I had to walk down a series of hallways to an agents office or repair bay because CCP wants to force us to use their new chat room
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Necrothitude
Caldari United Kings R.A.G.E
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Posted - 2010.12.11 21:28:00 -
[19]
Sorry to sound like a broken record, but RMT and botting are chief concerns of myself and my alt. CSM needs to go into this with the knowledge that RMT and Botting are happening en-masse in all of EVE, with the disctinct possibility that drones regions are experiencing more of it that other regions. (I say possibility because it's just that - I've seen accusations, but I'm not willing to stake my reputation on it).
I'm also interested to know if there are any plans to add faction modules to the market. Adding faction ships to the market has been a great thing, so it seems to me that faction modules would be a natural successor.
Thank you CSM for the great work you've been doing. I think that you really have been doing a great job representing the interests of the EVE player base, and the game is going to be better for years to come because of your efforts. Registered Linux Addict #431495 http://profile.xfire.com/mrstalinman | John 3:16! http://www.fsdev.net/ | http://podlogs.com/necrosworld/ |
LordLuciusMorpheus
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Posted - 2010.12.11 22:56:00 -
[20]
Edited by: LordLuciusMorpheus on 11/12/2010 22:56:33 I agree with everyone here so far. Bots/Macro's/RTMer's are the main concern. Not only does it hurt mining, it hurts the Economy as well, the
market, PVPr's. How you ask? Miners - brings cost down on everything do to the Supply&Demand being way more Supply then Demand. Economy - Cost is
way down, it's good and bad. Market - Again, the cost goes down do to the High supply and less Demand - PVPr's - less and less people risk the
low sec, 0.0 areas do to it not being profitable. Eliminate the Macro's/RTMer's and not only do you solve that problem, you solve market issues,
the economy gets better, Higher risk and profitability for both Miners and PVPr's. A solution to this problem would be to create a system kinda
like the AIP, "PMWS" (Potential Macro Warning System)which would notify CCP of a potential Macro/PTMer account. Then CCP could look into that
account instead of hundreds of petitions wkly by players, which usually nothing is done about anyway. Another Solution would be to bring back
the "TRUE OLD SCHOOL" way of mining. ------------------ System Information ------------------ Time of this report: 12/4/2007, 07:31:50 Machine name: ALIENWARE Operating System: Windows XP Professional (5.1, Build 2600) Ser |
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Aineko Macx
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Posted - 2010.12.12 08:59:00 -
[21]
I agree with the selection of topics, most import issues are in there.
Some random comments: - You are discussing 0.0, what about low sec? - The discussion about incarna should be held also in the context of this post by TeaDaze (and the following comments). - I'd like the see an explicit distinction between RMT and Botting in the discussion. - Issues with Incursion like targeted player fleet sizes. ________________________ CCP: Where fixing bugs is a luxury, not an obligation. |
LordLuciusMorpheus
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Posted - 2010.12.13 00:07:00 -
[22]
I sat and thought about this problem last night and thought of many different options on what to do and what could be done. And I came up with a
way CCP could make this happen and it wouldn't take alot of time/effort and would SOLVE this problem once and for all. Security Status Decrease -
Not alot, but would decrease over time. The only way to fix the decrease in security status would obviously be to run missions, which solves
another problem, not many running missions as they would like. Over time, these macros who don't run missions, but just sit and mine, would have
a negative security status to the point either they would actually have to run missions or easily become prey. Everyone keeps saying how this
game should be more on hands vs click and go watch a movie or whatever they do. I believe this would be the best answer to this problem and in
just a few months, it would solve alot of these problems. Not only that, but it would also make it easier for CCP to know who is a macro/PTMer
and who isn't. Any thoughts? ------------------ System Information ------------------ Time of this report: 12/4/2007, 07:31:50 Machine name: ALIENWARE Operating System: Windows XP Professional (5.1, Build 2600) Ser |
Davelantor
Caldari The Hunt United Front Alliance
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Posted - 2010.12.13 06:56:00 -
[23]
ways to destroy Macro please. Punk-buster would be nice. OR ANYTHING
Ow and more content for youtube and etc. :D
The Hunt |
LordLuciusMorpheus
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Posted - 2010.12.13 15:49:00 -
[24]
Ahh he is so right. PunkBuster is used by Americas Army and has been for yrs. It's a selection you have to have checked in order to log into your account to play. It makes sure there are no bots/hacks. There's your answer to the problem CCP, now it's your turn to fix it. ------------------ System Information ------------------ Time of this report: 12/4/2007, 07:31:50 Machine name: ALIENWARE Operating System: Windows XP Professional (5.1, Build 2600) Ser |
Anyura
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Posted - 2010.12.14 12:57:00 -
[25]
Another look at Hybrids would be nice, please.
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Aphrodite Skripalle
Galactic Defence Consortium
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Posted - 2010.12.14 16:45:00 -
[26]
Edited by: Aphrodite Skripalle on 14/12/2010 16:45:33 please confront CCP on: Botters macro miners/ratters/ect Hackers/stolen accounts
^This I am pretty sure that encryption methods like pgp (pretty good privacy) will make a safe login.
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Cyril
Hounds Of War Talos Coalition
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Posted - 2010.12.14 17:40:00 -
[27]
With the reluctance to beat a dead horse... RMT/bots/groups that benefit from it.
It is very frustrating to sit here and know that there have to be better ways. The only difference between in game crime of this nature and organized crime in rl is that CCP has all the information in real time... this should make it easy.
I've seen over time numerous people make suggestions related to tracking this activity and I know we have a lot of very smart people playing the game. The problem is that every time you post an idea on how to stop them, the botters/RMT start working on a way around it before CCP ever even can have a meeting about it.
So here is my actual topic: I would like to see a non public means of making suggestions. Almost like a bug report or petitions, I know the GMs are over worked but in the long term this would help lessen the petitions.
Here is the idea: Have a very small team of GMs do an initial filter; remove spam, rants, etc. Things like "Fix the _____" with no actual suggestion for a fix. In addition they group all very similar ideas together and give a descriptive synopsis.
Next a Sr. GM/Jr Dev looks through the list to see if anything is worth passing up. Maybe a number rating system where 1 is a great idea and 5 is junk. These remain in the system so any additional similar ideas get attached to it. The lower the rating the less often is shows up in the queue for review.
Finally if an idea makes it to the table for the Dev's they reach out to the player who submitted the idea. Just based on the number of game related sites with hundreds of thousands of man hours spent coding them I'm sure there is a base that would spend a lot of time producing charts, graphs, and psudo-code on a volunteer basis to help.
Yes I know 90% of what gets put into this will probably never be actionable but if that 10% helps solve a problem just by think-tanking it they I feel it will be worth the effort. -----------------------------------------
insert witty sig here. |
Xel Ra
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Posted - 2010.12.14 22:51:00 -
[28]
Laughable hysteria in the face of unsubstantiated rumor-mongering is laughable hysteria in the face of unsubstantiated rumor-mongering.
I have followed these wildly made assertions in the various fora, including that-which-shall-not-be-named and Eve News 24, and there has been nothing even remotely approaching credible evidence tendered as yet. All this hubbub and posturing over....just _vapor_, in the absence of credibility. In fact, there has been nothing but hysterical, reactionary frothing at the mouth and posturing; forget about carefully applied reason.
I'm not saying the threat of RMT can't be true, I'm not saying it's unlikely to be true, I'm not saying it's unfounded. But people are waaaaaaaay to ready to call something a fact, when, as yet, it is NOT. I mean, the magnitude of people's willingness to forgo credible evidence is really stunning me, here. People are shouting, "Eve is ruined!" Why don't we ask CCP for its version of the facts and what its factfinding methods are before we decide Eve has an RMT problem.
Apparently, some in TEST might know what I'm talking about: http://www.reddit.com/r/blog/comments/elqgs/cheaters_never_win/
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LordLuciusMorpheus
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Posted - 2010.12.15 13:13:00 -
[29]
SO Xel Ra - Are you saying you don't think Eve has a RMT problem? ------------------ System Information ------------------ Time of this report: 12/4/2007, 07:31:50 Machine name: ALIENWARE Operating System: Windows XP Professional (5.1, Build 2600) Ser |
Xel Ra
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Posted - 2010.12.15 18:10:00 -
[30]
Originally by: LordLuciusMorpheus SO Xel Ra - Are you saying you don't think Eve has a RMT problem?
I'm saying you appear to have a basic reading problem. Try again:
"I'm not saying the threat of RMT can't be true, I'm not saying it's unlikely to be true, I'm not saying it's unfounded. But people are waaaaaaaay to ready to call something a fact, when, as yet, it is NOT. I mean, the magnitude of people's willingness to forgo credible evidence is really stunning me, here. People are shouting, "Eve is ruined!" Why don't we ask CCP for its version of the facts and what its factfinding methods are before we decide Eve has an RMT problem."
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