Originally by: Merouk Baas

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"Inevitable" and "as EVE saturates" ... it's a bit late to use these phrases, considering that the game's been out and saturated for 7+ years.

They COULD implement solo PVP, but even in other games you still have the friends be able to log on or come over to help out, so the only solo PVP you have, even in other games, is /duel. And, I mean, they could implement that here, teleport two people to some instanced deadspace pocket with no concord, but I don't think it's a feature that's requested very often.

This game was never about solo. Look at the ship designs, no ship is a solopwnmobile, every ship has something missing from it (either DPS is low, or no defenses, or not enough midslots to tackle).

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Originally by: Wandering Deathstriker

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It's hard to solo unless your a really fast ship or find someone who isn't going to call all his buddies.

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Originally by: Diesel47

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Originally by: Wandering Deathstriker

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It's hard to solo unless your a really fast ship or find someone who isn't going to call all his buddies.

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This.

Nobody is man enough to fight by themselves.

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Originally by: CCP Oveur

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The client handles no logic, it is simply a dumb terminal.

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Originally by: ILikeMarkets

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Yea... it's a shame about solo not being the most viable thing in the world. But, it is an MMO after all. Going out solo means being in a fast ship. Big won't cut it. Any small gang will have stunlock (aka ECM) + bubble + stasis to shut you down. Cookie cutter, like any other MMO, will make you somewhat viable in those situations.

The magic of EVE died with the realization that things like ECM had been implemented to stop solo pvp from taking place. My first time not being able to fight, fly, or really do anything pretty much brought me back to earth on the concept that MMOs are exactly what they seem: multiplayer or die games.

So basically, tl;dr: suck it up, get yourself a corp, and play the way you are supposed to play like the rest of us.

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Originally by: Yvella

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Stuff

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Originally by: Artemis Rose

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Leave 0.0

Roam lowsec that is not called Tama or Amamake.

Profit!

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Originally by: Isaac Apylon

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I really don't understand where this whole 'solo pvp is dead' schtick is coming from. Granted, some of the ways to solo pvp have been nerfed rather badly (here's looking at you, nano nerf), and ECM is always a *****, but there's still plenty of solo opportunities. Go roaming through parts of lowsec that aren't already loltastically blobby, be willing to risk your ship and engage ships in higher classes than yourself, and be willing to occasionally try and score kills off a small gang. Oh look, solo pvp!

I'm a pretty crappy pvper, and don't even go looking for fights all that often, but the times I have found good fights reasonably outnumber the times I haven't found a thing/have been blobbed. I went out just the other day in a Merlin and got a great fight with an Ishkur. Died in a fire, took out my Bellicose (yes, I fly them), and got another 3 good fights before I died horribly to a Rupture. All in less than an hour of searching. Just get out there and find the fights!

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Originally by: baltec1

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Misstress Iteron manages to solo in an iteron V. If an Iteron can do things you cannot in ships which are ment to pvp then you are doing something very wrong.

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Originally by: Infinity Ziona

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Originally by: baltec1

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Misstress Iteron manages to solo in an iteron V. If an Iteron can do things you cannot in ships which are ment to pvp then you are doing something very wrong.

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Same thing as the previous poster.

Solo pvp is not alive because you can trick some idiot in a BC with 7 cargo expanders and a full rack of mining lasers into attacking your can flipping Iteron.

Falls into the same category of not risking anything of value, not killing anything of value.

Show me someone who goes out, in something worth some sort of isk and gets solo kills in non-consentual PvP encounters.

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Originally by: baltec1

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Originally by: Infinity Ziona

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Originally by: baltec1

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Misstress Iteron manages to solo in an iteron V. If an Iteron can do things you cannot in ships which are ment to pvp then you are doing something very wrong.

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Same thing as the previous poster.

Solo pvp is not alive because you can trick some idiot in a BC with 7 cargo expanders and a full rack of mining lasers into attacking your can flipping Iteron.

Falls into the same category of not risking anything of value, not killing anything of value.

Show me someone who goes out, in something worth some sort of isk and gets solo kills in non-consentual PvP encounters.

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The iteron takes on much more than that. The point still stands, the iteron does a better job than you dispite not being a combat ship. You do not need to spend a massive amount of isk to have fun in eve.

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Originally by: Infinity Ziona

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That doesn't really strike me as soloing. Its more get a few kills before suiciding.

Frigate pvp is probably the most boring pvp a person can engage in other than blob warfare. There is no risk, no isk loss, nothing that I find enjoyable that I couldn't get faster dropping a can outside Rens trade hub. You have very limited targets you can kill, other frigs and fail fit worthless cruisers

It doesn't make me get the mouse shakeys that flying around in 2 billion isk ship does when I engage somebody. 2 billion hurts, it has ramifications, its worthwhile to try to avoid dying. At the same time using a real ship gives the opportunity to take on valuable ships, that drop valuable cargos and cause real damage to your opponent.

So I don't consider PvP is alive and well if your idea of PvP is frigate vs frigate, theres no risk to you or your opponent, not possibility of decent loot and losing is a certainty at some point throughout your roam.

I consider this form of PvP consensual dueling.

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Originally by: Yvella

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My "whine" is more about the difficulty in finding reasonable fun fights, when your gang < 5 people. I don't care about loosing my ship, neither do I pimp excessively. However solo roaming in anything other than a Dramiel always ends in either a big blob killing or blocking. Often after hours of looking and using the map smartly.

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Originally by: Infinity Ziona

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Originally by: baltec1

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Misstress Iteron manages to solo in an iteron V. If an Iteron can do things you cannot in ships which are ment to pvp then you are doing something very wrong.

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Same thing as the previous poster.

Solo pvp is not alive because you can trick some idiot in a BC with 7 cargo expanders and a full rack of mining lasers into attacking your can flipping Iteron.

Falls into the same category of not risking anything of value, not killing anything of value.

Show me someone who goes out, in something worth some sort of isk and gets solo kills in non-consentual PvP encounters.

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Originally by: Isaac Apylon

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If you want consensual dueling, you're in the wrong damn game. I heard WoW has dueling. Might want to check that out.

And btw, there was no suicide involved with my described experiences; in each instance I engaged individuals one on one; I won a couple time and lost a couple times. Both losses resulted from strategic failures on my part.

And I haven't the slightest clue why you're bashing frigate pvp. There isn't another ship type of pvp in the game that hinges so completely on getting damn near everything right. Get too close to your heavily armed opponent, even for a moment? Death ensues. Get too far away? Lose point and lose your kill. get caught with a bad ammo choice? Die. Your atrocious lack of real buffer means that you have to take everything seriously and there is very little room for error. If that's not your thing, fine, but don't bash it as boring.

If you want to solo in expensive ships, fine, go do that, but don't whine that solo pvp is dead when it turns out that having isk doesn't make you into a solo pwnmobile. Learn to use your ship well and learn to engage long odds. I myself am not terribly good at that, but there are people who are. Ever see the Rocket Wizardy/Witchcraft/Wickedness? Oh look, a guy soloing around in an absurdly expensive ship and getting good kills. The fight where he basically takes out an entire bomber fleet is hilarious (and amazing). Ditto for the one where the people on the gate stop attacking because they watched all the people who engaged die. And there are plenty more examples of people going out in expensive ships and getting into great fights. Just go looking for them.

To me, it really sounds like you're whining that you can't spend a ton of isk and go out and **** people.

Edit: removed an 'either.'

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Originally by: Chisel Tan

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Certainly not you, I see you are still hanging around highsec war deccing industrial corps and taking Mining Vexors on with your "2 billion isk" Proteus, and you then come on here moaning about a lack of solo PvP, methinks you are looking in the wrong places. Sure your ship is worth some sort of isk, but you're hardly killing anything of value.

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Originally by: SR65

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I think the real problem here is that people are so risk adverse. They are so afraid to lose anything sometimes that it's just sickening. Even as an outlaw, I have trouble getting people to engage me at a gate or on station.

I also find that it's a bigger problem getting people to just undock rather than running into a blob. Running through a system with 10-20 people in it and hitting the scan button to find nothing because all those hard core PVPers are docked up spinning ships.

Undock and play the game people, live a little. Stop worrying about those stupid KB stats and lose a ship sometime.

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Originally by: Infinity Ziona

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*snip*
Fight Fight, wearing the hurricane down, ignoring the rifter. More war targets appear in local. Jammed. No choice but to tank the gank till I can dock in station.
*snip*

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Originally by: Infinity Ziona

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People who say you can solo fine are lying. Its extremely difficult.

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Originally by: hjgjgfgfgsj

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It's rediculously hard, you cannot spend your time jumping through lowsec systems without getting double webbed by a loki at 40km and missiles spammed on you by his buddy in a legion at a gate any more.

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Originally by: Tchell Dahhn

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You win, and thank you.

Originally by: xtLoveBird

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defiant is always willing to 1v1 anyone, anytime, anywhere.

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Originally by: Shiho Weitong

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Originally by: hjgjgfgfgsj

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It's rediculously hard, you cannot spend your time jumping through lowsec systems without getting double webbed by a loki at 40km and missiles spammed on you by his buddy in a legion at a gate any more.

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So after the double web, why don't you just warp away? I mean.. Align time after double web on anything that it's reasonable to solo with in lowsec would be less than 2 seconds...

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Originally by: Shiho Weitong

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Originally by: hjgjgfgfgsj

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It's rediculously hard, you cannot spend your time jumping through lowsec systems without getting double webbed by a loki at 40km and missiles spammed on you by his buddy in a legion at a gate any more.

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So after the double web, why don't you just warp away? I mean.. Align time after double web on anything that it's reasonable to solo with in lowsec would be less than 2 seconds...

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Originally by: Feilamya

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Originally by: Infinity Ziona

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People who say you can solo fine are lying. Its extremely difficult.

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Everything in this game is extremely difficult. That's why we play it. Why do you?

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Originally by: Candente

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add an arena system. problem solved.

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Originally by: xtLoveBird

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defiant is always willing to 1v1 anyone, anytime, anywhere.

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Originally by: Misanth

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Originally by: Candente

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add an arena system. problem solved.

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No.

Big thrill of the PvP, bar the risks involved, is the hunt. How the initiation of the fight is executed. Scouting, range, distances, etc.

Solo PvP is diffrent for different people tho, some want a ship of size X to go up against a ship of equal size. Others want the option to move around trying ot pick fights vs equal OR (on paper) tougher/bigger groups. Two major issues for both those examples is a) local as inteltool and b) blobcamps (usually with instalock and ecm).

Two days to 'fix' PvP for those interested in small scale combat would be to remove local (for one). And another would be to try change the player mentality back to where players actually do feel like fighting, even when put at risk. The first has an obvious solution, the second is alot harder to implement.

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Originally by: Infinity Ziona

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I'm one of the few people who still play EvE on hardmode. I find it amusing you think everything is so difficult when things have been made so easy.

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Quote:

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Tbh personally I feel killboards, more than CCP, ruined solo PvP. It's still out there, but the risk adverse mentality is a major issue that I doubt will get out of peoples head now. They just like their kb stats too much.

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Originally by: Feilamya

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Originally by: Infinity Ziona

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People who say you can solo fine are lying. Its extremely difficult.

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Everything in this game is extremely difficult. That's why we play it. Why do you?

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Originally by: Sirez Cartwright

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Originally by: Infinity Ziona

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I'm one of the few people who still play EvE on hardmode. I find it amusing you think everything is so difficult when things have been made so easy.

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You sound like a condescending hipster. Did you like EVE before it was cool?

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Originally by: Tornan

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Solo is anything but dead, its just tough. And I always hope that games out there allow 100 people to beat up one person its the way of life. or do you think certain people should have certain ships that can tank 200-300 ships and be able to take them all

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Originally by: Shiho Weitong

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Originally by: hjgjgfgfgsj

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It's rediculously hard, you cannot spend your time jumping through lowsec systems without getting double webbed by a loki at 40km and missiles spammed on you by his buddy in a legion at a gate any more.

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So after the double web, why don't you just warp away? I mean.. Align time after double web on anything that it's reasonable to solo with in lowsec would be less than 2 seconds...

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Originally by: 1600 RT

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solo is still possible but its 100 times harder than just join a blob and shoot what your FC say you, luckily solo its also 100 time more fun.

the best boost for solo fight would be the removal of KB stats

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Originally by: Greymoon Avatar

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In EvE you WIN by undocking and getting aggro.
You lose by spinning in dock, wishing you could play...

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Originally by: Aiwha

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Edited by: Aiwha on 11/12/2010 01:11:37
Drake, Hurricane, Falcon, Dramiel, Vagabond, Stabber, Caracal, Rupture, Rifter, Incursis, Pilgrim, Curse, and Nighthawk would all like a word with you.

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Originally by: Infinity Ziona

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I'm one of the few people who still play EvE on hardmode.

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Originally by: 1600 RT

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the best boost for solo fight would be the removal of KB stats

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Originally by: Geanos

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Reading through this thread, my conclusion is that you need a lot of free time for successful solo/small gang PVP. Meh but true

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Originally by: Jhagiti Tyran

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Originally by: Infinity Ziona

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I'm one of the few people who still play EvE on hardmode.

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No you don't, you live in high sec killing newbs and noobs in poorly fitted ships and industrial ships. Grow some balls, throw off the training wheels and leave high sec before you go around posting about how hardcore you are.

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Originally by: Infinity Ziona

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Originally by: Misanth

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Originally by: Candente

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add an arena system. problem solved.

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No.

Big thrill of the PvP, bar the risks involved, is the hunt. How the initiation of the fight is executed. Scouting, range, distances, etc.

Solo PvP is diffrent for different people tho, some want a ship of size X to go up against a ship of equal size. Others want the option to move around trying ot pick fights vs equal OR (on paper) tougher/bigger groups. Two major issues for both those examples is a) local as inteltool and b) blobcamps (usually with instalock and ecm).

Two days to 'fix' PvP for those interested in small scale combat would be to remove local (for one). And another would be to try change the player mentality back to where players actually do feel like fighting, even when put at risk. The first has an obvious solution, the second is alot harder to implement.

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I will sometimes spend hours, sometimes on a weekend I spend an entire day locating, tracking and setting up a single kill. The fun for me is purely hunting someone who knows I am hunting them, avoiding their predictable gangs hunting me and trying to out think them or predict correctly what they will do next so that I will be there when they do it.

I could just go sit in a system with a bunch of people and kill a random person every few minutes but its pointless, has no skill involved and so is a valueless kill.

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Originally by: Malcanis

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I recall seeing threads like these in this very forum when I started playing EVE in 2006.

The "golden Age" of solo/small gang PvP is always 2 years ago.

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Originally by: Cearain

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Originally by: 1600 RT

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the best boost for solo fight would be the removal of KB stats

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It depends on how the killboard ranks people. If you look at the top 1000 pvpers on battleclinic you will see quite a few solo kills.

Believe me the best boost for solo pvpers would be tweaking the fw complex system.

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Originally by: 1600 RT

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Originally by: Cearain

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Originally by: 1600 RT

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the best boost for solo fight would be the removal of KB stats

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It depends on how the killboard ranks people. If you look at the top 1000 pvpers on battleclinic you will see quite a few solo kills.

Believe me the best boost for solo pvpers would be tweaking the fw complex system.

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i said removal of KB stats because alot of players are scared to accept a fair fight not because of the isk loss but because a loss gonna ruin their leet KB stats and they just go call their friends.

focusing solo pvp to FW complex its a stupid idea at best

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Originally by: Infinity Ziona

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Originally by: Jhagiti Tyran

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Originally by: Infinity Ziona

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I'm one of the few people who still play EvE on hardmode.

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No you don't, you live in high sec killing newbs and noobs in poorly fitted ships and industrial ships. Grow some balls, throw off the training wheels and leave high sec before you go around posting about how hardcore you are.

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Says the guy whose only solo kills in over a year are 3 frigates, an industrial and a t1 cruiser.

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Originally by: Jhagiti Tyran

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Originally by: Infinity Ziona

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Originally by: Jhagiti Tyran

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Originally by: Infinity Ziona

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I'm one of the few people who still play EvE on hardmode.

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No you don't, you live in high sec killing newbs and noobs in poorly fitted ships and industrial ships. Grow some balls, throw off the training wheels and leave high sec before you go around posting about how hardcore you are.

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Says the guy whose only solo kills in over a year are 3 frigates, an industrial and a t1 cruiser.

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Coming from you that means less than nothing, your kills are worthless and you lack the balls to leave high sec and so what if I no longer have the time to do much solo roaming anymore and prefer small gang fights now but if I could be bothered to go through my kills I am 100% sure I can produce a lot more decent solo kills than you can.

Anyone can kill the things you can yet most do not go around posting that they play "EVE on hardmode"

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Originally by: Infinity Ziona

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I have no interest in you or your gangs of silliness. You sit in groups of 9 to over 100 players and kill solo ships. I'm sure they're tough and exciting fights for you but they scream of being afraid to take risks to me. Something you are accusing me of.

My rules are simple, I declare war on alliances of 100's players. My goal is to kill as many people as possible without dying. If I die I end the war immediately and give the person who killed me a T3.

Thats my game and thats what I enjoy doing. Its a lot harder to track down and kill a specific group of players outnumbering you hundreds to 1 and survive then sitting in a huddle of like minded bears pretending to be pirates and shooting random solo players.

When you want to pay my subscription you can tell me how to play. Until then, since you have no idea about solo play and don't do it, you have nothing to offer on the topic.

Have a nice day.

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Originally by: 1600 RT

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Originally by: Cearain

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Originally by: 1600 RT

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the best boost for solo fight would be the removal of KB stats

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It depends on how the killboard ranks people. If you look at the top 1000 pvpers on battleclinic you will see quite a few solo kills.

Believe me the best boost for solo pvpers would be tweaking the fw complex system.

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i said removal of KB stats because alot of players are scared to accept a fair fight not because of the isk loss but because a loss gonna ruin their leet KB stats and they just go call their friends.

focusing solo pvp to FW complex its a stupid idea at best

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Originally by: Infinity Ziona

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However CCP went a few steps further. They declared that no ship should be a solopwnmobile and went on a nerfing spree, nerfing lock times, mobility, speed, ewar, and prenerfing leadership skills, recons, black ops, repair drones.

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Originally by: Infinity Ziona

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The fear of solopwnmobiles was stupid. No solo player, even in a solopwnmobile, is a threat to multiple players.

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Originally by: Infinity Ziona

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stuff

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Originally by: Vmir Gallahasen

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Nos domi during the nano age

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Originally by: Misanth

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Well so was 7 heat sink geddons, cruise Kestrels etc, but that's pretty few cases over seven years.

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Originally by: Yvella

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introduction of regional gates

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Originally by: Misanth

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Originally by: Yvella

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introduction of regional gates

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Yeah gotta give CCP that, it's one of the best things they added in recent years tbh.

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Originally by: Alara IonStorm

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Originally by: Misanth

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Originally by: Yvella

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introduction of regional gates

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Yeah gotta give CCP that, it's one of the best things they added in recent years tbh.

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Whats the difference between a Stargate, Constellation Gate and Regional Gate that hurts camps?

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Originally by: Ganagati

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Originally by: Shiho Weitong

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Originally by: hjgjgfgfgsj

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It's rediculously hard, you cannot spend your time jumping through lowsec systems without getting double webbed by a loki at 40km and missiles spammed on you by his buddy in a legion at a gate any more.

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So after the double web, why don't you just warp away? I mean.. Align time after double web on anything that it's reasonable to solo with in lowsec would be less than 2 seconds...

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Has anyone ever had a pvp match where you weren't immediately scrammed/disrupted? >_>

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Originally by: Tchell Dahhn

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You win, and thank you.

Originally by: Shiho Weitong

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Originally by: Ganagati

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Originally by: Shiho Weitong

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Originally by: hjgjgfgfgsj

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It's rediculously hard, you cannot spend your time jumping through lowsec systems without getting double webbed by a loki at 40km and missiles spammed on you by his buddy in a legion at a gate any more.

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So after the double web, why don't you just warp away? I mean.. Align time after double web on anything that it's reasonable to solo with in lowsec would be less than 2 seconds...

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Has anyone ever had a pvp match where you weren't immediately scrammed/disrupted? >_>

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If a loki and a legion both get a lock on you before you are aligned and out, you're in the wrong ship. That was kinda my point.

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Originally by: Haniblecter Teg

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I love killboard stats and to say that solo pvp is effected is silly, most just don't want to have to 'fc' their gang of one. Plus, its an mmo, people should want to group up.

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Originally by: Ruiryu

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Solo PVP is far from dead. Yes it is difficult and you really need to pick and choose your fights.

But one person stands out in my mind. PROMETHEUS EXENTHAL; good friend of mine and the guy loves to do it solo.

http://www.promsrage.com/videos.html

Check out his frigank series. Or just about any of his videos most of them are him solo.

So before people go off saying something is dead or over try thinking outside of the box and do a little looking around.

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Originally by: Ephemeron

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I observe a couple distinct types of solo pvp

1) solo people looking for fights in cheap stuff - t1 frigs and cruisers, typically low sec empire
2) solo people looking for fights in expensive stuff - HACs, battleships, t3, typically 0.0 space

....

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Originally by: Yvella

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...Some ideas mooted so far that may merit further thought:
-Remove local from 0.0 (scare those bears)
-Get rid of KMÆs???
-Lock time. Sensor strength is a legacy from a time when tracking and sig did not protect little ships from nig ships. Could mega gate -camping be reduced discouraged this way. Clearly the introduction of regional gates, means CCP recognise tard-camps as an issue.

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Originally by: Cearain

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Originally by: Ephemeron

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I observe a couple distinct types of solo pvp

1) solo people looking for fights in cheap stuff - t1 frigs and cruisers, typically low sec empire
2) solo people looking for fights in expensive stuff - HACs, battleships, t3, typically 0.0 space

....

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Actually I haven't found anyone in this thread that has shown me many solo kills in null sec in things larger than cruiser or so. Infinity is a solo roamer but he gets his kills ganking newbs in high sec. Sassy B who was mentioned before is low sec.

Prometheus is null sec but his solo vids afaik is showing frigate work.


It seems to me that null sec is the natural place for large fleets. Low sec is the natural place for tiny gangs and solo. Null sec is for those players who have all sorts of real life time to dedicate to the game. They can spend it organizing people and trying to win eve. At least the null sec that is not npc null sec.

Low sec (and npc null sec) is more for people who like to dock their crap up and not worry the station might be blown up in the morning. They like to undock and find some people they can blow up. People who can challenge them with how they set up their ship and fly it. etc.


High sec solo û well look at infinityÆs battleclinic killboard. Check out the people he is fighting, see who they have killed and imagine the challenge he must have.

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Originally by: Bengal Bob

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Solo pvp isn't dead, just don't expect it to be 1v1. You might have to work for it but you can definitely find it in low sec. I prefer rifters because if you make a mistake you are dead. People are also less likely to run from a frig. af/inties/dessies and other frigs are all possible targets, so you have a wide pool to choose from whilst being able to evade large gangs. Even the large gangs can be fun if you can pull the tackle away and then take one down.

If you are willing to make the effort, solo is alive and well.

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Originally by: Parsee789

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Killboards ruin eve. People are too obsessed with their scores and rankings to risk a fight unless they are fairly or even absolutely certain that they will win.

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Originally by: Infinity Ziona

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Edited by: Infinity Ziona on 14/12/2010 05:59:38
As for Prometheus he has some very nice kills, in 0.0, versus multiple opponents (rapier, falcon, vagabond) within 2 minutes of each other, in a valuable ship.

Its quite a bit more impressive than your or my own kills.

My challenge, which you have failed to take up, is still open, since what I do is so easy, create a corp for a week, dec an alliance and get 7 kills without dying. I give you 1 billion isk for success.

My best is 44 kills. My last war was 24 no deaths.

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Originally by: Misanth

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FW is already a blobfest, terribly plagued with lag (lowsec can't handle fleets a tenth of what nullsec can), crowded with spies and in-fighting (just like 0.0). It's everything a small scale PvPer wants to avoid, by not heading to null.

So no, FW doesn't need incentitives for PvP. Perhaps it needs better options/tools for smaller scale fights, but right now it's already zero-zero in minimode.

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Originally by: Infinity Ziona

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My challenge, which you have failed to take up, is still open, since what I do is so easy, create a corp for a week, dec an alliance and get 7 kills without dying. I give you 1 billion isk for success.

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Originally by: Infinity Ziona

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My challenge, which you have failed to take up, is still open, since what I do is so easy, create a corp for a week, dec an alliance and get 7 kills without dying. I give you 1 billion isk for success.

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Originally by: Wandering Deathstriker

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It's hard to solo unless your a really fast ship or find someone who isn't going to call all his buddies.

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Originally by: Deserek Calani

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I see a lot of people saying that killboards kill eve, and that people won't risk a fight unless they are sure they can win. Well, in response, I shall quote one of the smartest military geniuses of human history...

"If fighting is sure to result in victory, then you must fight, even though the ruler forbid it; if fighting is not sure to result in victory, then you must not fight, even at the rulers bidding." - Sun Tzu.

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Originally by: Michwich

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I dont like the fact the battles are pre-determined before they start, hence the battle being the hunt. Im really competative person, I love testing myself against others and using my skill against theres. When skill in this game is numbers, or higher stats/more expensive ships and the actual battle is an afterthought, I dont get my competative fix from what you guys call PVP in this game. Even in 1 on 1 situations its the same thing, only the numbers factor is taken out,but lack of skill in battle is still there. Theres no turning on this mod at the right time to counter what the enemy is doing, thers no putting a well placed strategic shot against a ships defenses. Its all min maxed and predetermined and the game seems a hunt rather than a battle. Even with high stakes there are games that exist because they allow for player skill over rpg game mechanics where you can stand to lose a lot but at the same time everyone think they got a shot. See poker. But i cant imagine CCP adding skill to a game where people have payed for advantages in time and money, just look at the crying over learning skills. Some people take their artificial skill seriously.

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Originally by: 1600 RT

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removing the local would be the total end of solo roamers.
if you are solo sometime you do even 20-30 jumps with most of system empty, you see the local and just jump to the next system, if you had to probe/scan every single system you jump in it would just be impossible.
removal of local would just boost cloakers wich is a boring tactic at best

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Originally by: Cearain

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Prometheus is one of the best pvpers in the game. Just because he can do something doesnÆt mean its viable for most players like myself. ItÆs sort of like telling a fifth grader stop trying to make lay ups just slam dunk the ball like Michael Jordan.

As far as your ôchallengeö and your views in general. I think you miss it on several levels.

1)Why do you want me to do this ôwithout dying.ö Your view of pvp - where itÆs of paramount importance to never die - is indeed why solo pvp is difficult to find.
2) IÆm not saying itÆs easy to find people to fight in what you do. But the fights you do get are far from impressive. The ship type you have killed the most is an industrial. Do you think people are going to be impressed?
Why donÆt you do a video like Prometheus? It would have you warping and scanning around for hours on end then finally tackling that badger. See how many people swoon at your prowess.
How many victims on your killboard have ever even shot at another player let alone have a kill?? You wait until momma bear leaves the den then your run in there and club all the baby bears that havenÆt even opened their eyes yet. This is fine with me. Whatever floats your boat. But it is crazy that you then beat your chest and proclaim what a great warrior you are.

3)What you do is equivalent to fw missions. You have to go in kill the industrials and warp out before anyone catches you. If I wanted to spend a whole week doing that I would want more than 1 billion isk. I certainly would want more than a promise from a griefer that he will pay 1 billion isk.
4)But in the end what would this prove. You say Garmon didnÆt get 10 kills. Does this mean youÆre a better pvper than Garmon? Or does it mean that what you do is just a slow and tedious way to go about solo pvp? You have been playing this game for *6 years* and you only have 179 kills. Looking through your kills it seems you have not left high sec. I agree with people who say this game is a sanbox so you can do what you want. But if you really want solo pvp you may want to at least try leaving high sec.

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Originally by: Ephemeron

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Edited by: Ephemeron on 14/12/2010 19:02:17

Originally by: Infinity Ziona

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My challenge, which you have failed to take up, is still open, since what I do is so easy, create a corp for a week, dec an alliance and get 7 kills without dying. I give you 1 billion isk for success.

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Can I please take that challenge for a week? I can easily make a new corp since I'm out of one right now. It'll be just me an my alt - Imperishable. I'll war dec an alliance of your choice (as long as it doesn't cost more than 200 mil)

And if I get 7 kills within 1 week of starting the war, I get 1 bil. Is that a deal?

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Originally by: Merdaneth

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The largest problem of solo-ing is fight mismatches. Earlier today I shot at 9 different targets and was shot at by 6 different targets. Only once was there exchange of fire, all other cases was me firing at something that didn't want to engage, because they would most likely die, or others firing at me while I didn't want to engage, because I had no chance of winning.

As skill points, ship choices, fits and roles diversify and strategies get perfected the odds of finding a 'matching 'fight gets smaller and smaller. Many ships have very small 'engagement windows', that is to say, situations where the outcome of the fight is unsure.

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Originally by: Ephemeron

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2 years you could be in a big ship and be fast and successful at solo PvP. It was very expensive, but it was an option for elite players. And back then you could actually use battlefield intelligence to make strategy without worrying too much that every other noob you engage will light a cyno and drop 30 man gang with dictors on your ass before you even have time to react.

EVE used to be better.

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Originally by: Infinity Ziona

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Edited by: Infinity Ziona on 15/12/2010 03:21:40

Originally by: Cearain

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Prometheus is one of the best pvpers in the game. Just because he can do something doesnÆt mean its viable for most players like myself. ItÆs sort of like telling a fifth grader stop trying to make lay ups just slam dunk the ball like Michael Jordan.

As far as your ôchallengeö and your views in general. I think you miss it on several levels.

1)Why do you want me to do this ôwithout dying.ö Your view of pvp - where itÆs of paramount importance to never die - is indeed why solo pvp is difficult to find.
2) IÆm not saying itÆs easy to find people to fight in what you do. But the fights you do get are far from impressive. The ship type you have killed the most is an industrial. Do you think people are going to be impressed?
Why donÆt you do a video like Prometheus? It would have you warping and scanning around for hours on end then finally tackling that badger. See how many people swoon at your prowess.
How many victims on your killboard have ever even shot at another player let alone have a kill?? You wait until momma bear leaves the den then your run in there and club all the baby bears that havenÆt even opened their eyes yet. This is fine with me. Whatever floats your boat. But it is crazy that you then beat your chest and proclaim what a great warrior you are.

3)What you do is equivalent to fw missions. You have to go in kill the industrials and warp out before anyone catches you. If I wanted to spend a whole week doing that I would want more than 1 billion isk. I certainly would want more than a promise from a griefer that he will pay 1 billion isk.
4)But in the end what would this prove. You say Garmon didnÆt get 10 kills. Does this mean youÆre a better pvper than Garmon? Or does it mean that what you do is just a slow and tedious way to go about solo pvp? You have been playing this game for *6 years* and you only have 179 kills. Looking through your kills it seems you have not left high sec. I agree with people who say this game is a sanbox so you can do what you want. But if you really want solo pvp you may want to at least try leaving high sec.

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1. Because 'dying' in my eyes is ultimate failure. If I wanted a game where I died and respawned over and over I'd play an FPS. EvE is not an FPS.

2. Industrials are have very high priority on my kill list, as they would for anyone looking to make isk from PvP. BS & BC > my industrial kills. My pod kills twice industrial kills. Pod kills are primary target because they cause the most potential damage to a player. Most importantly I'm not interested in impressing you or anyone else. I play EvE for me.

I never claimed to be a great pvp'r. I stated I'm actually not that great of a PvP'r. What I do in this game is however, the most difficult and challenging thing I have done in EvE and I have done all of EvE, 0.0 alliance, 0.0 pirating, low sec pirating, low sec carebearing, high sec carebearing and high sec piracy.

3. So you don't wish to take up my offer. I didn't think you would.

4. It means I'm better at what I do then most people and I don't have ADHD needing a pointless riskless kill every 2 minutes to make me happy. Edit: I have a analogy for you: A big game hunter is good at hunting not because he shoots the game, but because of all the things he does prior to shooting. He could get a lot more kills if he had someone tie up the game to a post, but that removes 100% of the fun of hunting. I'm a hunter.

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Originally by: ILikeMarkets

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The magic of EVE died with the realization that things like ECM had been implemented to stop solo pvp from taking place. My first time not being able to fight, fly, or really do anything pretty much brought me back to earth on the concept that MMOs are exactly what they seem: multiplayer or die games.

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Originally by: Deserek Calani

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I see a lot of people saying that killboards kill eve, and that people won't risk a fight unless they are sure they can win. Well, in response, I shall quote one of the smartest military geniuses of human history...

"If fighting is sure to result in victory, then you must fight, even though the ruler forbid it; if fighting is not sure to result in victory, then you must not fight, even at the rulers bidding." - Sun Tzu

This applies to soloers as well as gangs and fleets, and I think it's very valid to not fight unless you're sure you can win. But in fairness, I have disregarded this from time to time, that is, when I could pick the fight. Sometimes, I knew I wasn't going to win but I fought anyway because it was fun. So if you're not willing to risk a fight because you're afraid of your stats being tarnished, forget about it. That's all they are, just stats. Even if you're the best of the best, once someone better comes along, are people going to remember your name? No, they aren't. So there's really no point to worrying about your stats.

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Originally by: Merdaneth

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Edited by: Merdaneth on 14/12/2010 17:58:42

Originally by: Infinity Ziona

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My challenge, which you have failed to take up, is still open, since what I do is so easy, create a corp for a week, dec an alliance and get 7 kills without dying. I give you 1 billion isk for success.

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The attitude that PvP is about killing others without dying is what hurts the viability of solo PvP more than anything else. If nobody is taking risk, and everybody is somewhat smart, then of course solo PvP is difficult.

The ability to sort of guess the outcome of many 1vs1 ship match ups in advance in combination with the point above is extra killing for solo PvP. In my eyes a good solo PvP-ers is someone who can kill you in a ship that you expected to win from.

In fact, as soon as I meet someone seems determined to avoid the risk of dying at all cost, then I will try to avoid PvP with that person (if he's good) since if he does engage, he only does so when he's sure to win. As a rule, if you want to fight me, you gotta risk something.

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Originally by: Infinity Ziona

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People who say you can solo fine are lying. Its extremely difficult. Case in point:

Last fight. I get jumped by a Hurricane and a rifter. I'm in a buffer Proteus so I engage them.

Fight Fight, wearing the hurricane down, ignoring the rifter. More war targets appear in local. Jammed. No choice but to tank the gank till I can dock in station.

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Originally by: Zab Zonk

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Originally by: Infinity Ziona

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People who say you can solo fine are lying. Its extremely difficult. Case in point:

Last fight. I get jumped by a Hurricane and a rifter. I'm in a buffer Proteus so I engage them.

Fight Fight, wearing the hurricane down, ignoring the rifter. More war targets appear in local. Jammed. No choice but to tank the gank till I can dock in station.

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Enough said. The rest is TL/DR. IF that's your ideea of solo pvp - fighting at undock then no wonder you are all whiny and sad panda. Grow some , go a few gates into the unknown. Learn to use probes , learn to use directional scan...

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Originally by: nMeh

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Removing local from 0.0 would make this game far more interesting than any other change. Kills macros and makes pvp far better with one change.

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Originally by: xuiliveyou

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Edited by: xuiliveyou on 16/12/2010 05:41:13

Originally by: nMeh

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Removing local from 0.0 would make this game far more interesting than any other change. Kills macros and makes pvp far better with one change.

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This would be unfair for new players. All the vets in almost alliances have used bots to accumulate isk (Don't act like its not true. Half my alliance uses bots since CCP doesn't ban them .) I just find it unfair if the new players can't use bots like previous players have to have a huge isk advantage. Its like how people had t2 bpo's it woulda been nice if the game was balanced to start with but this change will greatly make the game unfair for new players with little isk. No one actually wants to spend their time to rat or mine to catch up with botters. There is nothing really wrong with botting tbh as long as everyone is on even playing field, and CCP doesnt ban so far as im concerned its even playing field since everyone can do it. Like one of those unenforced rules.

As far as PVP this would be an awesome change. Solo would definately be back in business. Good luck tracking down a solo target, camping or following him with intel channels without local chat. You never know if he has left the system or not. It will be the end of the CAMPING solo targets.

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Originally by: Prometheus Exenthal

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snip

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Originally by: Drakarin

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[Ding ding ding. Player skill matters very little in solo to small gang pvp. There is very little luck involved either. In 1vs 1, it's 99% about what ship you have, and how it is fit. It's a rock paper scissor game. The moment you undock you're picking one and you just have to hope that whoever you find isn't the one that counters it.

Basically, no one wants to solo because there's no point. You can know everything you need to know about your enemy via local, even long long they've been playing or if they are in a corp, and you can find out what ship they are in via the directional scanner or a combat probe.

There's no guess work. It's literally spreadsheet online, everything is calculated and quantifiable down to the last micro action. This works fine for large scale conflict, because the dynamics of this are somewhat random.. when you have hundreds of other players and ships of all kinds to contend with. It just doesn't work in small encounters and there's really nothing that can be done about it short of overhauling the entire combat system.

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Originally by: Cearain

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I would much rather kill 5 ships in one night even if I die 2xs

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Originally by: Saelie

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EVE has more variety now. This means that it's far less likely that the one ship you have will be able to deal with what the other guy has. You can no longer easily predict what the other guy is going to have, what they're going to be doing, or where they're going to be....

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Originally by: Saelie

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...T3 ships are especially bad, as you have no idea what you'll be attacking before you decide to go ahead and do it.

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Originally by: Prometheus Exenthal

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Solo pvping may as well be dead and frigates don't count.

The reason why frigates don't count is simply because they pay for themselves.
You fly any non-faction frigate, go kill another t2 frigate, and boom that loot just paid for your ship.
Want to fly a passive Thorax? Go kill 5 cruisers (t1 or t2) without dying to pay for your trimarked mess.
Want to fly a battleship? Go kill 5 BS (t1 or t2) without dying to pay for your heap.

When you start accounting for all the inevitable losses the amount of isk required in order to have some resemblance to success is ridiculous.
As for the number of ships that are even capable of effective soloing, I can count them on one hand.
On top of that, those few ships become utterly useless since you will fly them often, and fits are learned and countered easily.

Problems with solo are not in local or anything like that.
Risk/Reward, ECM, and blob mentality are the largest issues.

It's one thing to have a ship that can handle 1-3 targets, but can you handle 1-3 targets quickly enough before the falcon arrives, the vespas jam, or the blob jumps? Not likely.

Take it from someone who solos exclusively, it's extremely extremely difficult.
I solo the way I do because I like to brawl, nano is boring, and any small gangs I've run in end up being exactly what I hate.

The game does not scale well in this respect. Why would anyone in their right mind ever solo when they can do it with friends, get the same kills, same payout, and with little risk.
Players are lacking the courage to engage with weaker odds, the ambition to achieve the unachievable, and in some cases the inspiration for both (this is why I make videos).

I understand this is a multiplayer game that advertises MASSIVE FLEET FIGHTS, but what happens when your friends aren't online?
Tbh, CCP may as well start suggesting you get a scout as part of the bloody tutorial.

You can call me a masochist, but I'm not going to stop trying to solo any time soon.
Why? Because I enjoy a challenge. However, it's becoming a ganking world and as much as I love EVE I'm not so sure that's what I want to be paying for.
I'd love for things to change to give solo some legs, but I think the carebearing union accounts for more money to CCP than actual pvping players such as ourselves.

With that said, vote for me come CSM time and I'll fight for pvp.
In the meantime, my last couple videos are Cruiser/BC based so go check them out

Fake Edit:
For all you trying to solo, keep at it if you can handle it.
The frustration can be unbearable, but dying 20 times only to win a 1v10 is way more satisfying than killing 5 people with 20 and not dying.

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Originally by: Saelie

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Solo PvP is always on the decline for a few reasons. My opinion:

1) Most people play to win. The people who play to get 'good fights' are vastly outnumbered by the people who don't care how good the fight is as long as the other guy dies. This is an inherent aspect of human nature; nobody likes to lose, especially in a game where losing generally means something. This means that people will naturally gravitate towards strategies that allow them to win more than the other guy. The best way to do this is numbers. It's hard to lose when you outnumber the guy 5 to 1. They win, they accomplish their objectives. This means they're having fun. Perhaps at the expense of the solo roamers, but such it is.

2) EVE has more variety now. This means that it's far less likely that the one ship you have will be able to deal with what the other guy has. You can no longer easily predict what the other guy is going to have, what they're going to be doing, or where they're going to be. You're less likely to be able to handle multiple ships since each additional ship adds so much more risk. T3 ships are especially bad, as you have no idea what you'll be attacking before you decide to go ahead and do it.

3) EVE players are more organized than they used to be. Intel channels, Ventrilo servers, Teamspeak... EVE players communicate better than they used to and they organize faster. Whereas it used to take half an hour for a blob to form up and chase down the lone Vagabond shooting ratters, now it happens in ten minutes or less. Response times are quick among well-organized groups, giving the solo roamer a lot smaller of a window to do their business before they die.

4) Blobs are the natural state. Leave a group of random people in a room long enough and they will eventually form into little groups. This explains why there are so many empty null-sec systems, but the ones that have people in them tend to have 10-20 or more. It explains why blobs form entirely naturally and without prompting - I've witnessed these impromptu fleets develop in both PvP and PvE situations (PvE being the Sansha mini-incursions CCP is doing right now). One man against the world is just not a normal operating condition for the average human; they want to be in a group. Thus, groups form, and groups tend to stay together, leading to blobs.

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Originally by: Drakarin

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And you don't see anything sad & pathetic in a 5 vs 1 fight? How can you possibly get anything from that? IF you're on the blobbing side, it's a snooze fest, and completely unfair. You cannot be in anyway, shape or form proud of the victory because it was by eight extra hands.

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Originally by: Drakarin

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Why? Losing to a blob means you simply didn't scout, and I don't scout because I don't believe in using alts.

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Originally by: Drakarin

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And you don't see anything sad & pathetic in a 5 vs 1 fight? How can you possibly get anything from that? IF you're on the blobbing side, it's a snooze fest, and completely unfair. You cannot be in anyway, shape or form proud of the victory because it was by eight extra hands.

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Originally by: Target Painter

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Originally by: Drakarin

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And you don't see anything sad & pathetic in a 5 vs 1 fight? How can you possibly get anything from that? IF you're on the blobbing side, it's a snooze fest, and completely unfair. You cannot be in anyway, shape or form proud of the victory because it was by eight extra hands.

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Fair? If I was stuck on 'fair' fights, I'd head to WoW's arena. When I play EVE, it's for the tears man, I'm all about the tears. Plus a lot of times you think it was 3 on 1, it's really just me triple-boxing.

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Originally by: Eternum Praetorian

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So this is your 4th alt that you only use to collect epic forum tears then?

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Originally by: Cearain

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Believe me the best boost for solo pvpers would be tweaking the fw complex system.

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Originally by: Noemi DeFarrel

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Lots of interesting stuff throughout the thread, would be fun if there was something like a constellation/region that prohibited the use of fleets. Sure ppl could still run around and camp together but would make solo'n a bit more viable no? Not something I thought to hard on but would be interesting none the less =p

Long an short of it is, decent solo pvp may take hours or a quick few mins to find but if your serious about solo'n then well eve is just that much harder for you no use crying on it over forums, its already pretty well known that its dying/less popular. Perhaps you could find something else to do that gives you the thrill you seek.

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Originally by: Infinity Ziona

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Crying and whining is a well known and effective means of having things changed in game. How do you think we got into this blob fest garbage pvp we have in EvE now. People whining and crying about stuff and asking for changes.

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Originally by: Drakarin

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EvE is a fantastic game for anyone who simply wants to hurt and cause a bit of suffering in others. It seriously seems to be built around this concept.

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Quote:

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I do not demand every fight be fair, far from it, I do see the problem being the players themselves though. Everyone simply wants to win for the sake of winning. There is no point. You want to increase your KM stats at any cost. Screw fun. This is war.

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Quote:

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In real life that makes sense. I think people have forgotten that this is a game, meant to be enjoyed. Using 3 alts to gain an advantage is not fun. It does nothing but show that you have lots of money and time to waste on a game in order to be "badass".

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Quote:

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Yeah sure, winning would be fun for a few battles when the odds are overwhelmingly in your favor, but the novelty will wear off very quickly. The only kind of fights that stay forever fresh and exciting are the unexpected spontaneous battles where you have no real idea if you will win or not.

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Quote:

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It's truly disgusting tbh.

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Originally by: Pychian Vanervi

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Its rare I post so it may end up being worthless and not very elloquent at all but here goes.

As far as I can tell solo PvP is pretty much a damned trade. Its possible to do it and I like to find it where ever I can. Issue I see is that many see lose as a failure and thus any risk of loss will equal possible failure.
Now in a radical and I suspect not alone (maybe 1 or 2 others) in this thought, I dont mind loss. Loss in the right way usually means I have had fun. Fair enough getting your lonely behind ganked isnt fun and seeing your gang get stomped is not great fun but if the fight is fun then why cant the loss be fun.
Risk in my eyes makes the whole game more engaging which is why I have kept reasonably active for so long in game.

If more were less occupied with the great isk race then they may think about stepping out and just flying about looking for random fights. And no need to be a 1v1 I enjoy nothing more than picking on a group and trying to get the upper hand and picking off the odd ship. Usually end up in a pod but beats the ship out of spinning ships or waiting for an even fight.
I like to think I am a mix of bold and stupid, seems to work ok for 75% of the time in game and the other 25% a laugh off and move on.

I am sure the above is less than intersting or even makes sense but wanted to try and convey that new or old can fight solo, just grab your balls and give it a go. Some you win some you lose but take it all with a pinch of salt and have fun doing it.

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Originally by: Jennifer Starling

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Edited by: Jennifer Starling on 17/12/2010 11:13:40

One of the strange things is that I never PvPed as little in a mmo game as in EVE, while it's supposed to be a PvP focussed game.

It's EXTREMELY hard to get some challenging PvP, somethimes I think PvP in EVE is only meant as PvPPPP. Or PPPPPPPvPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPP. And so on. PvP hardly exists and if you find it at all it usually become PvPPP. In EVE by far the most people don't fight for fun or a challenge, they fight only to win.

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Originally by: OneTimeAt BannedSpank

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Nice to see infinity failzona all over this thread. Someone who thinks soloing involves 3+ cloaky ships and ganking plex runners and sets up challenges when told he is a failure then biomasses out of embarrasment. I wonder how you got your character back by the way.

Solo pvp is alive, it's obviously harder than roaming in a gang but it is rewarding. You can't expect fair fights but if you adapt to the environment and fly appropriate ships you can take on blobs and survive. OR you can take on blobs and kill a significant amount of them before dying yourself. Solo pvp is absolutely NOT about trying to find a fair fight, its about using skill to outclass incompetent people.

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Originally by: RoyAraym

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Solo-PvP in EvE?

Learn how it is like, in the game, by History:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanese_battleship_Yamato
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_battleship_Bismarck

... let me guess if you find the analogy...

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