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Tora Nevaal
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Posted - 2010.12.11 04:42:00 -
[1]
Edited by: Tora Nevaal on 11/12/2010 04:46:45 So for the past few days I've been sitting here watching all this coverage of the student demonstrations going on in the streets of London over the proposed hikes for tuition. Now as an American I am instantly hit with several impressions all at once. The first being "holly crap, they are only going to have to pay $14,000 at the most!?"I'm getting royally screwed (no pun intended). You couldn't find a credible college in the states for that price if your life depended on it. I was shelling out almost $30,000 a year. And then I saw that they were only paying a bit over $5,000 now! Yeah, I'd be pi**ed off too if my tuition just got tripled! They've even gone so far as to attack Prince Charles in his car. WTF!? So on the one hand, join the club and spend the first 2 decades of your life paying off student loans like the rest of us who don't have government subsidized higher education; but on the other I can find a sense of solidarity with the rioting students of GB.
Anyways, I'd like to hear some opinions, thoughts, concerns etc. from both Americans and Brits on this topic. And any battle stories of people actually participating would be welcome too. And for those of you who live under a rock and have no idea what I'm talking about:
For Your Convenience
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Blane Xero
Amarr The Firestorm Cartel
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Posted - 2010.12.11 04:50:00 -
[2]
Edited by: Blane Xero on 11/12/2010 04:59:04 It's ****ing ridiculous is all I'll say.
The "coalition" between Libdems and Torries has been complaining that the majority of job vacancies are being filled by Europeans and Immigrants. They are complaining because people within the UK are uneducated, and when it boils down to it, unwilling to kick off the crutch that is Government Benefits; mostly because of their lack of education.
Personally, if the changes go through, as someone in a low income family (~ú10-15k) I'm all but screwed; but meh. I have enough issues right now in day-to-day life. _____________________________________ Haruhiist since December 2008
Originally by: CCP Fallout Been there. Done that. Need antibiotics.
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Surfin's PlunderBunny
Minmatar The Python Cartel. The Jerk Cartel
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Posted - 2010.12.11 04:51:00 -
[3]
Everyone knows violence is not the answer... it is the question.
the answer is yes
*Touches self* |
Professor Tarantula
Hedion University
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Posted - 2010.12.11 04:59:00 -
[4]
Edited by: Professor Tarantula on 11/12/2010 05:00:55
Originally by: Tora Nevaal "holly crap, they are only going to have to pay $14,000 at the most!?"I'm getting royally screwed (no pun intended). You couldn't find a credible college in the states for that price if your life depended on it.
This is precisely why it's wise of them to riot.
Tuitions in the states didn't just start at their current amounts, it was slowly raised over time. People kept saying "oh, we can afford a little more" and then years later it's some ridiculous amount.
And that's exactly the stance you see many people taking over this, acting like it's a problem with paying a little bit more, but anyone who knows how these things go is aware it won't end there. They have to put their foot down now.
Aside from just costing more, the raising of tuition is really sick in a couple ways: one because it increases the barrier for less fortunate people to get a 'legitimate' education, and another because it forces people just starting out in life into what's essentially indentured servitude trying to get free of the debt.
My Warmest Regards. Prof. Tarantula, Esq. |
Chainsaw Plankton
IDLE GUNS IDLE EMPIRE
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Posted - 2010.12.11 05:06:00 -
[5]
and they only do 3 years at uni, in the states 4 is standard
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Akita T
Caldari Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2010.12.11 05:22:00 -
[6]
Originally by: Tora Nevaal Now as an American I am instantly hit with several impressions all at once. The first being "holly crap, they are only going to have to pay $14,000 at the most!?"I'm getting royally screwed (no pun intended). You couldn't find a credible college in the states for that price if your life depended on it. I was shelling out almost $30,000 a year.
Now imagine that in Romania, until about 15 years ago, ALL university education was not just free of charge and you only had to pay a token sum of money for the "rent" on the dorm room, but for the students that had above-average grades, a money stipend was offered that surpassed the amount needed for room and board. Even today, there are quite a few spots that are completely free of charge (about half for all pre-existing universities), and for the paid ones, tuition is somewhere in between 500 EUR to 3000 EUR a year tops (with most of them on the lower end of this spectrum). _
Beginner's ISK making guide | Manufacturer's helper | All about reacting _
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Tora Nevaal
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Posted - 2010.12.11 05:30:00 -
[7]
Edited by: Tora Nevaal on 11/12/2010 05:37:49 And that's been one of the greatest problems in the states for a while now. People graduate college buried up to their eyeballs in debt, and are forced to take whatever job they can get just to attempt to pay it off. then you start to add credit cards and mortgages to the equation and the end result is the financial fiasco that we've been in for the past two years. The catch 22 is that without a college education, it's becoming incredibly hard to find a decent job anymore. You damn near require an associates degree just to work at McDonald these days. The banks know this and they prey on it.
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Surfin's PlunderBunny
Minmatar The Python Cartel. The Jerk Cartel
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Posted - 2010.12.11 05:31:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Akita T
Originally by: Tora Nevaal Now as an American I am instantly hit with several impressions all at once. The first being "holly crap, they are only going to have to pay $14,000 at the most!?"I'm getting royally screwed (no pun intended). You couldn't find a credible college in the states for that price if your life depended on it. I was shelling out almost $30,000 a year.
Now imagine that in Romania, until about 15 years ago, ALL university education was not just free of charge and you only had to pay a token sum of money for the "rent" on the dorm room, but for the students that had above-average grades, a money stipend was offered that surpassed the amount needed for room and board. Even today, there are quite a few spots that are completely free of charge (about half for all pre-existing universities), and for the paid ones, tuition is somewhere in between 500 EUR to 3000 EUR a year tops (with most of them on the lower end of this spectrum).
The best and brightest minds have come out of Romania after all
And Denmark is where you're thinking about, I believe.
I know education is completely free through college in Denmark, and all healthcare too. Though they do have a 50-60% income tax but it seems to work for them.
*Touches self* |
Ava Starfire
Minmatar Nordanverdr Modr
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Posted - 2010.12.11 05:43:00 -
[9]
I dont know what schools some of you attend; I go to Kent State (which is quite credible, thank you...and a uni were people know a thing or two about student demonstrations) here in the US, and I pay about 8000 USD a year for tuition; 14000 a year would be next to impossible.
The percentage of the hike was the worrisome part; a tripling of tuition. I wish the best of luck in making certain you are heard, though the current trend in the govts of both the US and the UK has been to not listen to their citizens.
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Tora Nevaal
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Posted - 2010.12.11 06:00:00 -
[10]
Ok, I forgot. If you go to a state school and you're a resident of said state then you usually do get a reduced tuition. Buy $8,000 a year is still the bottom end of what you could expect to pay for a university.
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Blane Xero
Amarr The Firestorm Cartel
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Posted - 2010.12.11 06:08:00 -
[11]
Just some numbers to crunch.
Current NMW rates
Originally by: [url="http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/Employment/Employees/TheNationalMinimumWage/DG_10027201" Source[/url]]There are different levels of NMW, depending on your age and whether you are an apprentice. The current rates are:
* ú5.93 - the main rate for workers aged 21 and over * ú4.92 - the 18-20 rate * ú3.64 - the 16-17 rate for workers above school leaving age but under 18 * ú2.50 - the apprentice rate, for apprentices under 19 or 19 or over and in the first year of their apprenticeship
Assuming you manage to get a part time job while in education, and you work 5 hours a day, every week day of the year (260 days, if my math isn't completely horrible) you'll make ú6,500~ a year if we assume ú5 an hour (again, math skills withstanding). It's not unrealistic to expect half of that to go to rent alone.
If you work every day of the week, including weekends, that goes up to around ú8.5k~. Assuming ú7.50~ an hour, with the 260 days a year scenario, that's still only 9.7k a year.
Yeah, good luck making the "Revised tuition" without, as Prof put it, Indentured Servitude. _____________________________________ Haruhiist since December 2008
Originally by: CCP Fallout Been there. Done that. Need antibiotics.
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Surfin's PlunderBunny
Minmatar The Python Cartel. The Jerk Cartel
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Posted - 2010.12.11 06:18:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Blane Xero Edited by: Blane Xero on 11/12/2010 06:10:56 Just some numbers to crunch.
Current NMW rates
Originally by: http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/Employment/Employees/TheNationalMinimumWage/DG_10027201 There are different levels of NMW, depending on your age and whether you are an apprentice. The current rates are:
* ú5.93 - the main rate for workers aged 21 and over * ú4.92 - the 18-20 rate * ú3.64 - the 16-17 rate for workers above school leaving age but under 18 * ú2.50 - the apprentice rate, for apprentices under 19 or 19 or over and in the first year of their apprenticeship
Assuming you manage to get a part time job while in education, and you work 5 hours a day, every week day of the year (260 days, if my math isn't completely horrible) you'll make ú6,500~ a year if we assume ú5 an hour (again, math skills withstanding). It's not unrealistic to expect half of that to go to rent alone.
If you work every day of the week, including weekends, that goes up to around ú8.5k~. Assuming ú7.50~ an hour, with the 260 days a year scenario, that's still only 9.7k a year.
Yeah, good luck making the "Revised tuition" without, as Prof put it, Indentured Servitude.
Poor people don't need education, they need to work
*Touches self* |
Tora Nevaal
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Posted - 2010.12.11 06:23:00 -
[13]
That's interesting. When I was making minimum wage working part time way back in high school I was making about $7.50 an hour, or 4.74 GBP (sorry, no symbol on this keyboard and I'm too lazy to look up the ascii code). That was in Connecticut which has one of the highest cost of living in the country. I'm wondering, is it normal for students in GB to go to school and work at the same time, because I know that generally many schools in America -and especially the one I went to- the workload essentially precluded, or at the very least made it very difficult, to work while enrolled.
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Caleidascope
Minmatar Republic Military School
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Posted - 2010.12.11 06:29:00 -
[14]
Edited by: Caleidascope on 11/12/2010 06:30:03
Originally by: Tora Nevaal Ok, I forgot. If you go to a state school and you're a resident of said state then you usually do get a reduced tuition. Buy $8,000 a year is still the bottom end of what you could expect to pay for a university.
Yes, that is very important distinction, residents and nonresidents pay very different fees. Here is example for my school for Spring 2011 semester(January to May): Undergraduate-resident 242.40 dollars per credit Undergraduate-nonresident 582.20 dollars per credit Graduate-resident 298.85 dollars per credit Graduate-nonresident 676.70 dollars per credit
Full time is considered 12 or more credits per semester. Do the math and if you do not include cost of living, you are looking at about 7k USD per year for school for resident of the state. This is state college/university, private schools are much much more.
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Blane Xero
Amarr The Firestorm Cartel
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Posted - 2010.12.11 06:35:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Tora Nevaal That's interesting. When I was making minimum wage working part time way back in high school I was making about $7.50 an hour, or 4.74 GBP (sorry, no symbol on this keyboard and I'm too lazy to look up the ascii code). That was in Connecticut which has one of the highest cost of living in the country. I'm wondering, is it normal for students in GB to go to school and work at the same time, because I know that generally many schools in America -and especially the one I went to- the workload essentially precluded, or at the very least made it very difficult, to work while enrolled.
It's far too common. _____________________________________ Haruhiist since December 2008
Originally by: CCP Fallout Been there. Done that. Need antibiotics.
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Akita T
Caldari Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2010.12.11 06:49:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Surfin's PlunderBunny The best and brightest minds have come out of Romania after all
For a country that has only around 0.3% of the world's population, I'd say that we've done quite well, all things considered. We also tend to "export our brains" to other countries, they grow up and get educated over here, and immediately after university is over, the most talented dart away somewhere else where prospects of funding are much better. Oh well...
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Beginner's ISK making guide | Manufacturer's helper | All about reacting _
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Strrog
Caldari Zero Excavations
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Posted - 2010.12.11 07:15:00 -
[17]
British Goverment went totaly gay with tuition. For example here in Alberta Canada tuition went from from 4 000 per semester ( 6 month )per IT crourse to like 16 000 for semester over 4 years ****ing seriously.
Oh ya British goverment wanted to bail out Taliban with tax payers money so they stop shooting at the peace keeprs LOL.
morons morons and more morons in Govermnet...
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Zindela
Caldari School of Applied Knowledge
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Posted - 2010.12.11 07:29:00 -
[18]
I'm originally from the US, but attend University in Canada. Even paying full international fees, I only pay about $3,000.00 more than the best public university in my state.(University of Colorado, actually a pretty damn good school). The 2 were so close in terms of cost, that it wasn't even a hard decision for me to pick UBC Engineering over CU Engineering.
If I went to a Cali public Uni, I'd be paying somewhere in the realm of $50,000 + each year.
Point being, US Universities are ****ing expensive, and fairly overrated. I wish I was Canadian, so I'd only pay a fraction of what I do now, for a better education that you get in the states. -------------------
Originally by: CCP Oveur
Guess what I'm wearing.
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Micheal Dietrich
Caldari Warsmiths
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Posted - 2010.12.11 07:38:00 -
[19]
I'll be shelling out 50K for an associates and I work full time with occasional OT. I don't get vacations. I can't even afford to take a sick day. But its either this or I continue working one **** job after another.
Best part is that I'm in my second Quarter and I already know I'll be jumping right back in for a Bachelor after I graduate.
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Strrog
Caldari Zero Excavations
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Posted - 2010.12.11 07:41:00 -
[20]
Edited by: Strrog on 11/12/2010 07:42:28
Originally by: Micheal Dietrich I'll be shelling out 50K for an associates and I work full time with occasional OT. I don't get vacations. I can't even afford to take a sick day. But its either this or I continue working one **** job after another.
Best part is that I'm in my second Quarter and I already know I'll be jumping right back in for a Bachelor after I graduate.
Make sure you do job search before spending that much on tuition, even in hot industries u can not get an entry level job unless you got *connections* cough job search. Oh ya Colledges now lie about the prospects as well with the goverment backing them up foul is foul.
Its the same rate of misinformation as the employment rate...
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baltec1
Antares Shipyards Phalanx Alliance
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Posted - 2010.12.11 08:35:00 -
[21]
1. you do not pay this cash up front
2. you only start to pay this off once you get a job that pays ú21k a year, if you drop below this then you stop paying till you go above ú21k a year.
3. Monthy payments are going to be less than the current rate.
4. the less well off students can get up to 2 years free
I am still planning on going to uni if I can get in and will attend for 5 years and the more who just dont get the new setup and rage quit the more likely it is that I will get in
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Strrog
Caldari Zero Excavations
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Posted - 2010.12.11 09:39:00 -
[22]
Edited by: Strrog on 11/12/2010 09:40:23
Originally by: baltec1 1. you do not pay this cash up front
2. you only start to pay this off once you get a job that pays ú21k a year, if you drop below this then you stop paying till you go above ú21k a year.
3. Monthy payments are going to be less than the current rate.
4. the less well off students can get up to 2 years free
I am still planning on going to uni if I can get in and will attend for 5 years and the more who just dont get the new setup and rage quit the more likely it is that I will get in
Ok here is a rel life example i technically have 6 month of education 3 years of experience but because of connections I managed to pull off regional managemnet position. Not that many poeple can do that with education XD especially wihtout it !
Thas why you get connections frist, frisnds , family, co-workers, managers and then try to tailor your education to what they deal with
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innot
Minmatar The Exploited. Nulli Secunda
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Posted - 2010.12.11 11:21:00 -
[23]
Lets look at some of the Facts.
MYTH 1 I donÆt have ú9000 so now I canÆt go to uni
Fact
No one going to uni will have to pay anything up front with the new plans. YouÆll only have to pay money back after you graduate - and then only if you earn over ú21,000 a year.
MYTH 2 Tuition fees arenÆt fair
Fact
Graduates earn, on average, at least ú100,000 more over their lifetimes than non-graduates, so itÆs fair that you contribute towards your education.
MYTH 3 IÆd be better off under the old system
Fact
Under the old system, you started paying back money as soon as you earned over ú15,000 a year û but with the new plans, you wonÆt pay anything at all unless you earn more than ú21,000. In addition, everyone will have to pay back less a month, with most graduates being ú45 better off a month, ú540 better off a year.
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innot
Minmatar The Exploited. Nulli Secunda
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Posted - 2010.12.11 11:34:00 -
[24]
Edited by: innot on 11/12/2010 11:34:00 TBH the police should have just launched Tear gas into the crowd. british ploice are to soft.
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Miriam Letisse
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Posted - 2010.12.11 11:57:00 -
[25]
Originally by: innot Edited by: innot on 11/12/2010 11:34:00 TBH the police should have just launched Tear gas into the crowd. british ploice are to soft.
You say that like they wouldn't be accused of attempted murder and failing to obey health and safety guidelines on the launching of tear gas.
They can't do their job with people watching and criticising their every move.
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Irida Mershkov
Gallente Tribal Liberation Force
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Posted - 2010.12.11 12:04:00 -
[26]
Edited by: Irida Mershkov on 11/12/2010 12:05:08
Originally by: innot Edited by: innot on 11/12/2010 11:34:00 TBH the police should have just launched Tear gas into the crowd. british ploice are to soft.
They did a cavalry charge I believe without any sort of warning, that's pretty right up I think.
Edit: Although I heard they did, I didn't actually see it or the news about it.
Do feel sorry for the Royals though. Or Royal in this case rather.
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First Stotherd
Caldari Empyrean Warriors The Obsidian Front
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Posted - 2010.12.11 12:12:00 -
[27]
this only works when you don't consider the fact that most banks won't consider giving you a decent mortgage with that much debt. at my present rate its gonna take me 15-20 years to pay off my loan for a 4 year course.
They may be paying back less, but they'll be paying it back for much longer, and that debt will be hanging from them stopping them from owning a property,
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dr doooo
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Posted - 2010.12.11 13:37:00 -
[28]
Originally by: Akita T
Now imagine that in Romania, until about 15 years ago, ALL university education was not just free of charge and you only had to pay a token sum of money for the "rent" on the dorm room, but for the students that had above-average grades, a money stipend was offered that surpassed the amount needed for room and board. Even today, there are quite a few spots that are completely free of charge (about half for all pre-existing universities), and for the paid ones, tuition is somewhere in between 500 EUR to 3000 EUR a year tops (with most of them on the lower end of this spectrum).
I was at a UK University around 20 years ago. I slipped through one year ahead of the first big round of cuts. My parents were fairly comfortably well-off, but I got free tuition and over ú1000 a term (3 terms a year) for living IIRC. I also worked part time and graduated with savings. The quality of the education was better than today, with smaller class sizes and more one-on-one lecturer time.
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Shirley Serious
Amarr The Khanid Sisters of Athra
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Posted - 2010.12.11 13:55:00 -
[29]
Originally by: innot MYTH 2 Tuition fees arenÆt fair
Fact
Graduates earn, on average, at least ú100,000 more over their lifetimes than non-graduates, so itÆs fair that you contribute towards your education.
Income tax.
If you earn ú100,000+ extra over a lifetime, then a lot of that is going to be in the higher tax brackets, which will mean 20k+ extra is paid in taxes.
v0v
Yes. Yes, I am. |
Micheal Dietrich
Caldari Warsmiths
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Posted - 2010.12.11 15:44:00 -
[30]
Originally by: Strrog Edited by: Strrog on 11/12/2010 07:42:28
Originally by: Micheal Dietrich I'll be shelling out 50K for an associates and I work full time with occasional OT. I don't get vacations. I can't even afford to take a sick day. But its either this or I continue working one **** job after another.
Best part is that I'm in my second Quarter and I already know I'll be jumping right back in for a Bachelor after I graduate.
Make sure you do job search before spending that much on tuition, even in hot industries u can not get an entry level job unless you got *connections* cough job search. Oh ya Colledges now lie about the prospects as well with the goverment backing them up foul is foul.
Its the same rate of misinformation as the employment rate...
Oh believe me, I'm making sure I'm getting noticed. I'm already doing some work for a company named Trampower based in the UK. Once our little group is done with that we'll be moving on with local groups for architectural work. I also have some contacts at work who know people in that work in my field of study and I'm making sure they get copies of my work so they may pass them on. But I know what you mean. We have a guy at work now who has 2 degrees and yet he's working at our company for $8/h because of business right now, but he's decided he's going to try a medical field and see how that pans out.
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