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Giselle Garner
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Posted - 2010.12.11 18:31:00 -
[1]
I listened that Drake is the most used PVP ship in 0.0 I see the QEN of Q3-2010 and see it's the second most used ship (if you add, all the people like me that we grind L4 in it...), after the Hulk. Followed by Kestrel (another Caldari) and Rifter. The Caracal is jumped by the fact that people goes directly to Drake (as would be logical). I see in the same QEN that Caldari have the largest numbers in PVP: 1) 36,5% of lost ships 2) 38,3% of final kills 3) 35,8% of the characters (don't know if they include alts or not) I was under the "eternal" question of "What titan would wear if I would choose someone?" (the third slot of this account), and only reached the conclusion that I wanted some armor (as long time ago I read that armor is the best approach for PVP). So Erebus or Avatar. And... sthetically, I prefer them. But don't find reasons to choose an Armor Buffer or a Cap Recharger if that potential fleet to bonus have a large number of Drakes (so only left the Leviathan to have a useful ship).
People that would give me cheers to take the right decision will be welcome.
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Aiwha
Caldari
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Posted - 2010.12.11 19:04:00 -
[2]
I have never seen a Leviathan ingame.
Only Avatar's and Erebus's.
And RRBS gangs do not use shields, RRBS gangs are also what titans are usually in support of. Or gang raping dreads.
Gullible
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Giselle Garner
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Posted - 2010.12.11 19:09:00 -
[3]
Originally by: Aiwha I have never seen a Leviathan ingame.
Only Avatar's and Erebus's.
And RRBS gangs do not use shields, RRBS gangs are also what titans are usually in support of. Or gang raping dreads.
Are you stating that people in PVP there are 2 types: - that small gang full of Drakes? Or large (won't do a comparison with a famous Alliance)... - and that serious gang in huge-fleet wars that use armor setups? |
Aiwha
Caldari
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Posted - 2010.12.11 20:28:00 -
[4]
Originally by: Giselle Garner
Originally by: Aiwha I have never seen a Leviathan ingame.
Only Avatar's and Erebus's.
And RRBS gangs do not use shields, RRBS gangs are also what titans are usually in support of. Or gang raping dreads.
Are you stating that people in PVP there are 2 types: - that small gang full of Drakes? Or large (won't do a comparison with a famous Alliance)... - and that serious gang in huge-fleet wars that use armor setups?
Shield BC gangs are well and good, but they're more for roaming/fleet engagements. Large scale conflicts need the stopping power or RRBS or Sniper BS gangs. Shield BC's may be in support, but you need the wall that Battleships provide. Armor is also the favored tank of capital ships for PVP.
Gullible
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Jon Marks
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Posted - 2010.12.12 04:18:00 -
[5]
Is the Armor Tanking preference based on better performance than shields? Just curious why this is the case.
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Zombie Jeebus
Amarr Alt Holdings llc
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Posted - 2010.12.12 06:08:00 -
[6]
Before you copy and paste raw numbers, look at them a lot closer... how many of those caldari ships lost in pvp were fit ships/fits and how many were pve that got killed instead?
By final kill do you mean the final blow on a km? A lot of the caldari ships that do get used in pvp are missile boats which means their damage takes time to reach the target.. so they are slightly more likely to get there for the last hit.. or to miss out all together. Interesting to see what % are on a km and listed as 0 damage as their damage didn't get there in time... skipping ships like falcons which jam and don't really add dps anyway.
Before the overhaul to character creation the caldari, specifically the achura, had the 'best' base stat spread for training speed as they had minimal charisma... this was all before equal stats and neural remaps of course. there are a lot of caldari alts for this reason as is was the fastest was to train up an alt for a specific purpose, handy if you're pausing training on your main to do this.
While the armour titans are the most common, I've seen all but the ragnarok used on the field before the dd changes. When you are fielding a fleet of armour buffered rrbs then an Erebus is a very handy thing to have around. On the other hand for a fleet of sniping bs, admittedly less common it seems lately, the cap bonus from an avatar is handy as is saves making the logi pilot's ear bleed from cries for more cap :) Shield tanked fleets are often for roams as they aren't slowed by plates and the like. A massive drake blob, which about the only shield fleet that comes to mind really, could set up for a system defence/assault with a levi I guess but I haven't seen it personally.
As far as the actual request of pointing you towards the 'right' titan... by the time you have the skills trained and the isk on hand to afford one.. you should know what you need to get.. if not then don't fly one.
This is not the alt you are looking for. |
Irida Mershkov
Gallente Tribal Liberation Force
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Posted - 2010.12.12 16:32:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Jon Marks Is the Armor Tanking preference based on better performance than shields? Just curious why this is the case.
It used to be due to the slot requirement, mid-slots tend to be utility slots for MWDs and what-not and shield tanking can hamper this a fair bit. Whereas armour tanks are pretty much low-slot exclusive and it's easier to balance tanking and utility for armour tankers.
At least I believe that used to be the reason, whether it still is I'm a bit unsure.
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Giselle Garner
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Posted - 2010.12.12 19:01:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Zombie Jeebus Before you copy and paste raw numbers, look at them a lot closer... how many of those caldari ships lost in pvp were fit ships/fits and how many were pve that got killed instead?
By final kill do you mean the final blow on a km? A lot of the caldari ships that do get used in pvp are missile boats which means their damage takes time to reach the target.. so they are slightly more likely to get there for the last hit.. or to miss out all together. Interesting to see what % are on a km and listed as 0 damage as their damage didn't get there in time... skipping ships like falcons which jam and don't really add dps anyway.
Before the overhaul to character creation the caldari, specifically the achura, had the 'best' base stat spread for training speed as they had minimal charisma... this was all before equal stats and neural remaps of course. there are a lot of caldari alts for this reason as is was the fastest was to train up an alt for a specific purpose, handy if you're pausing training on your main to do this.
While the armour titans are the most common, I've seen all but the ragnarok used on the field before the dd changes. When you are fielding a fleet of armour buffered rrbs then an Erebus is a very handy thing to have around. On the other hand for a fleet of sniping bs, admittedly less common it seems lately, the cap bonus from an avatar is handy as is saves making the logi pilot's ear bleed from cries for more cap :) Shield tanked fleets are often for roams as they aren't slowed by plates and the like. A massive drake blob, which about the only shield fleet that comes to mind really, could set up for a system defence/assault with a levi I guess but I haven't seen it personally.
As far as the actual request of pointing you towards the 'right' titan... by the time you have the skills trained and the isk on hand to afford one.. you should know what you need to get.. if not then don't fly one.
Thanks for that analysis, can see more clear things now. |
Giselle Garner
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Posted - 2010.12.12 19:05:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Irida Mershkov
Originally by: Jon Marks Is the Armor Tanking preference based on better performance than shields? Just curious why this is the case.
It used to be due to the slot requirement, mid-slots tend to be utility slots for MWDs and what-not and shield tanking can hamper this a fair bit. Whereas armour tanks are pretty much low-slot exclusive and it's easier to balance tanking and utility for armour tankers.
At least I believe that used to be the reason, whether it still is I'm a bit unsure.
Can be a good reason. Nighthawk with T2-rigs have a lot of tank, but nothing more. Blasterthron have buffer and utility to "kill" others. Even reading these days to buff the blasters. |
KWyz
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Posted - 2010.12.12 20:34:00 -
[10]
I smirked when I saw someone posting and saying they've never seen a Leviathan in EVE. Taking in the possibility that you are a raging carebear, almost as dedicated as I am(and that's BIG), there's an NPC one somewhere in empire, I believe around Caldari prime.
Total coincidence for me, after I left empire for nullsec, the first titan I ever saw was a Leviathan.
Can we all agree on one thing, please: wouldn't it be GREAT if both defensive specs,shield and armor tanks, were perfectly viable? In an ideal world, wouldn't the best fleets be the ones with the most numerous variations? I believe that one of the goals the devs should have is to make ALL options viable,rewarding diversity as much as possible. And yes,feel free to mock me for using WoW as an example, but the best 10-man raid compositions were the ones with 10 different class characters in them.
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Diesel47
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Posted - 2010.12.12 21:45:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Giselle Garner
Originally by: Irida Mershkov
Originally by: Jon Marks Is the Armor Tanking preference based on better performance than shields? Just curious why this is the case.
It used to be due to the slot requirement, mid-slots tend to be utility slots for MWDs and what-not and shield tanking can hamper this a fair bit. Whereas armour tanks are pretty much low-slot exclusive and it's easier to balance tanking and utility for armour tankers.
At least I believe that used to be the reason, whether it still is I'm a bit unsure.
Can be a good reason. Nighthawk with T2-rigs have a lot of tank, but nothing more. Blasterthron have buffer and utility to "kill" others. Even reading these days to buff the blasters.
Nighthawk has two damage boosting bonuses.
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Von Kroll
Caldari Kroll's Legion
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Posted - 2010.12.13 13:24:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Jon Marks Is the Armor Tanking preference based on better performance than shields? Just curious why this is the case.
There's no performance difference between the two--one hit point = one hit point so-to-speak. The difference is that Amarr, Gallente, and Minnie ships can armor tank (roughly 75% of racial ships) and Caldari, for the most part, only shield tank. So, in the major alliances, in order to create the most inclusive standard tank (to simplify logistics and RR), they choose armor as it allows most players to use the tanking skills and ships they already have trained. Shield tanking is just as viable (maybe even more so for its advantages) but to do so would mean the fleets would have to limit themselves to a very narrow range of ships.
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Target Painter
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Posted - 2010.12.13 14:49:00 -
[13]
Edited by: Target Painter on 13/12/2010 14:57:07 Edited by: Target Painter on 13/12/2010 14:56:39
Originally by: Jon Marks Is the Armor Tanking preference based on better performance than shields? Just curious why this is the case.
All things considered, armor tanking will always give you a larger buffer since there exists no X-L shield extender as an equivalent to the 1600mm plate. Once you reach the capital level, a slave set should be within your price range as well, making up for the loss of plates at that level.
For shield-tankers, they get kicked in the nuts at the capital level as a crystal set doesn't work with capital shield boosters. And even if it did, once you hit supercarriers and titan, active tanking is literally impossible.
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Von Kroll
Caldari Kroll's Legion
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Posted - 2010.12.13 16:38:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Target Painter
All things considered, armor tanking will always give you a larger buffer since there exists no X-L shield extender as an equivalent to the 1600mm plate.
It would be interesting to see if someone could create a simulation via Excel that actually compared the two side by side to see what would occur. I suppose in a big fleet fight, buffer is all that matters (i.e. alpha resistance) but it would be nice to see a scientific comparison just to set the record straight. I suspect that the difference would show to not be so big, but all the variables involved in this game would make that difficult. But, the dilemma posed is the best part of EvE--everything is so dynamic that there's no cookie-cutter answer.
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