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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 5 post(s) |
beautyispain
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Posted - 2010.12.13 00:24:00 -
[1]
Edited by: beautyispain on 13/12/2010 00:43:02 Why not use CAPTCHA agains bots? A captcha window would randomly pop up at a random location every now and then when a player is not AFK, e.g. some input has been handled from the client (e.g. mouse click) in the past minutes. You would receive a time limit and if it runs out you get recorded, a few strikes should get you booted and frozen assets.
SPACE RESERVED FOR ANSWERS TO STUPID COMMENTS ABOUT HOW THIS WONT WORK:
Originally by: Tippia Because they don't work against proper bots and only serve to annoy humans.
CAPTCHA can be programmed to be very dynamic and extremely annoying/hard to crack. They can also be combined with a variety of questions and constantly kept up to date. The majority of bot users are unlikely to know much about how to keep such a complicated software up to date
Originally by: captain foivos What a brilliant idea! Congratulations on being the first to think of it!
Certainly not the first one but I want to debunk some of the alleged limitations of it
Originally by: Xylengra FC: Fleet align outbound gate... FC: Fleet warp, engage on contact! Every third fleet member: OHcraape! Wait while I enter this damned CAPTCHA! One third of those: Dagnabit! I can't read that one, let me get another try!
Chaos ensues, CCP flooded with petitions for reimbursement, 10% ragequit, game fail...
OP fail.
Hence the timeout, you will have say 15-20 minutes to respond
Originally by: Chainsaw Plankton I **** up on captchas all the time
Same here, however you can retry and it's possible to see patterns in the tries to determine if a computer or a human is trying
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Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
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Posted - 2010.12.13 00:27:00 -
[2]
Because they don't work against proper bots and only serve to annoy humans.
Also, AFK ≠ bot. ùùù ôIf you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡à you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.ö ù Karath Piki |
Jovan Geldon
Gallente Lead Farmers Kill It With Fire
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Posted - 2010.12.13 00:27:00 -
[3]
Originally by: beautyispain SPACE RESERVED FOR ANSWERS TO STUPID COMMENTS ABOUT HOW THIS WONT WORK
wat
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captain foivos
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Posted - 2010.12.13 00:32:00 -
[4]
What a brilliant idea! Congratulations on being the first to think of it!
Originally by: CCP Zulu You're assuming I read threads before I turdpost in them :)
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Xylengra
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Posted - 2010.12.13 00:32:00 -
[5]
FC: Fleet align outbound gate... FC: Fleet warp, engage on contact! Every third fleet member: OHcraape! Wait while I enter this damned CAPTCHA! One third of those: Dagnabit! I can't read that one, let me get another try!
Chaos ensues, CCP flooded with petitions for reimbursement, 10% ragequit, game fail...
OP fail.
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Chainsaw Plankton
IDLE GUNS IDLE EMPIRE
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Posted - 2010.12.13 00:33:00 -
[6]
I **** up on captchas all the time
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Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
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Posted - 2010.12.13 00:50:00 -
[7]
Edited by: Tippia on 13/12/2010 00:50:51
Originally by: beautyispain
Originally by: Tippia Because they don't work against proper bots and only serve to annoy humans.
CAPTCHA can be programmed to be very dynamic and extremely annoying/hard to crack. They can also be combined with a variety of questions and constantly kept up to date. The majority of bot users are unlikely to know much about how to keep such a complicated software up to date
They are also very easy to break through automated means (in fact, you don't even have to break them, as such, to automate the process). The bot users don't have to know anything ù the software takes care of it. The more "dynamic and annoying" they are, the better they will be at filtering people out.
And, again, AFK ≠ bot. You're not even attacking the right problemà hell, you're not attacking any kind of problem to begin with. ùùù ôIf you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡à you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.ö ù Karath Piki |
beautyispain
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Posted - 2010.12.13 00:54:00 -
[8]
Edited by: beautyispain on 13/12/2010 00:56:35
Originally by: Tippia Edited by: Tippia on 13/12/2010 00:50:51
Originally by: beautyispain
Originally by: Tippia Because they don't work against proper bots and only serve to annoy humans.
CAPTCHA can be programmed to be very dynamic and extremely annoying/hard to crack. They can also be combined with a variety of questions and constantly kept up to date. The majority of bot users are unlikely to know much about how to keep such a complicated software up to date
They are also very easy to break through automated means (in fact, you don't even have to break them, as such, to automate the process). The bot users don't have to know anything ù the software takes care of it. The more "dynamic and annoying" they are, the better they will be at filtering people out.
When you are constantly changing the CAPTCHAs the botters have to wait for a new software version to continue botting. The developers will have to spend far greater time on keeping their software up to date and releasing updates. This will result in more expensive botting software and majority of botters dropping out.
Originally by: Tippia And, again, AFK ≠ bot. You're not even attacking the right problemà hell, you're not attacking any kind of problem to begin with.
Never did I mention that AFK was a bot, you must have misread my first post :)
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Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
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Posted - 2010.12.13 01:00:00 -
[9]
Edited by: Tippia on 13/12/2010 01:03:15
Originally by: beautyispain When you are constantly changing the CAPTCHAs the botters have to wait for a new software version to continue botting.
That's just it: they don't. You just sideband the whole thing.
Quote: Never did I mention that AFK was a bot, you must have misread my first post :)
Wow. True. That makes it even more stupid because now you're ruining people's gameplay for something that doesn't work against bots.
The fact of the matter is this: CAPTCHAs do not work except to annoy people. That is not a solution to remove bots. ùùù ôIf you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡à you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.ö ù Karath Piki |
masternerdguy
Gallente Meerkat Maner
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Posted - 2010.12.13 01:01:00 -
[10]
captchas are not a solution, they confuse humans and bots.
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Vicker Lahn'se
Minmatar STRAG3S STRAG3S.INC
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Posted - 2010.12.13 01:03:00 -
[11]
Hell, why not just add a CAPTCHA to every action in game? Want to fire your guns? CAPTCHA! Want to warp to station? CAPTCHA! Want to send a message to your friend? CAPTCHA!
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beautyispain
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Posted - 2010.12.13 01:05:00 -
[12]
Originally by: masternerdguy captchas are not a solution, they confuse humans and bots.
They can be confusing and annoying but they are currently the best weapon against spammers and botters and if I had to choose between captcha pop-ups in eve and bots that ruin the economy in eve, the choice is simple
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Infinity Ziona
Minmatar Cloakers
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Posted - 2010.12.13 01:05:00 -
[13]
This MIGHT JUST WORK!
Since most humans can't get captchas right on the first try, any 'person' who successfully completes it must be a bot.
/Ban --------------------------------------------- Hate Bots / RMT? Do something worthwhile and good for EvE and cause tears and anguish for others, while doing absolutely nothing yourself! Join up. |
Taedrin
Gallente The Green Cross Sev3rance
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Posted - 2010.12.13 01:07:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Vicker Lahn'se Hell, why not just add a CAPTCHA to every action in game? Want to fire your guns? CAPTCHA! Want to warp to station? CAPTCHA! Want to send a message to your friend? CAPTCHA!
Want to cloak up after jumping into that massive gate camp? CAPTCHA! ----------
Originally by: Dr Fighter "how do you know when youve had a repro accident"
Theres modules missing and morphite in your mineral pile.
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masternerdguy
Gallente Meerkat Maner
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Posted - 2010.12.13 01:07:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Taedrin
Originally by: Vicker Lahn'se Hell, why not just add a CAPTCHA to every action in game? Want to fire your guns? CAPTCHA! Want to warp to station? CAPTCHA! Want to send a message to your friend? CAPTCHA!
Want to cloak up after jumping into that massive gate camp? CAPTCHA!
give all captchas a 30 second session delay too
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beautyispain
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Posted - 2010.12.13 01:08:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Taedrin
Originally by: Vicker Lahn'se Hell, why not just add a CAPTCHA to every action in game? Want to fire your guns? CAPTCHA! Want to warp to station? CAPTCHA! Want to send a message to your friend? CAPTCHA!
Want to cloak up after jumping into that massive gate camp? CAPTCHA!
Again, time-limit on the reply.
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Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
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Posted - 2010.12.13 01:09:00 -
[17]
Edited by: Tippia on 13/12/2010 01:10:45
Originally by: beautyispain They can be confusing and annoying but they are currently the best weapon against spammers and botters and if I had to choose between captcha pop-ups in eve and bots that ruin the economy in eve, the choice is simple
False choice (and incorrect alternatives ù it should be "choose between no players and bots that ruin the economy"). The correct answer is: "not ruin the gameplay for humans and find an actually working solution against bots."
They are not a good weapon. They haven't been for years. They only work for low-priority stuff that no-one can bother throwing any money at. Bot-makers (especially RMTers) make money and it's therefore worth their while to get a solution that makes them less bothered by it than any humans would be.
Quote: Again, time-limit on the reply.
And that's it will be trivial to create automated answering mechanisms for them, only leaving humans to be annoyed by them and leave the game. ùùù ôIf you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡à you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.ö ù Karath Piki |
Ranka Mei
Caldari
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Posted - 2010.12.13 01:21:00 -
[18]
Edited by: Ranka Mei on 13/12/2010 01:22:57
This sort of suggestions always engenders a lot of rage. :) Understandable, to a degree, in that it's hardly a novel idea. His underlying motivation for tackling botting is not wrong, though. I just don't think CAPTCHA is the way.
No matter how 'live-like' bots are, they don't move and act like humans. A statistical movement-analysis could probably weed out most bots. For example, mining 23/7 means you're a bot. Yes, even AFK mining is slightly different from how bots move.
Ultimately, I think it's really a matter of unwillingness on the part of CCP to deal with bots. They simply don't care. The rampant botting has been brought to their attention so many times now; and they just ignore it. No CAPTCHA is going to solve that.
Perhaps it's time the CSM put the botting matter on the agenda? In fact, come to think of it, the person who runs for the next CMS election, and makes anti-botting his or her priority, will have my vote. :) --
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Khezual
Minmatar
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Posted - 2010.12.13 01:22:00 -
[19]
Don't put those stupid things in the game. It'll be annoying like RuneScape's random events (wherein every hour or so you are teleported from your location, without warning, to complete a small challenge, maze, etc). They only serve to ruin the flow of the game and destroy the immersion. There's got to be better ways to deal with botters.
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oldmanst4r
Minmatar The Society for Raping and Pillaging masternerdguy
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Posted - 2010.12.13 02:01:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Khezual Don't put those stupid things in the game. It'll be annoying like RuneScape's random events (wherein every hour or so you are teleported from your location, without warning, to complete a small challenge, maze, etc). They only serve to ruin the flow of the game and destroy the immersion. There's got to be better ways to deal with botters.
Seriously, this. I ragequitted runescape as a tweenager when after mining for five minutes I failed at some bot test involving smashing the right type of frog and I got teleported halfway across the world and dropped in some random forest and died. The day I have to answer a Captcha while trying to kite in my cane and die, that is the day I quit EVE.
Originally by: CCP Shadow
*snip* Castration successful. Shadow.
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Siigari Kitawa
Gallente Senex Legio Get Off My Lawn
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Posted - 2010.12.13 02:06:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Tippia Because they don't work against proper bots and only serve to annoy humans.
Also, AFK ≠ bot.
Just want to dart in to the party here (sorry if I'm late,) but didn't CCP directly put in a game mechanic regarding fighters not auto-attacking rats? Doesn't that seem anti-AFK to you?
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Antihrist Pripravnik
4S Corporation Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2010.12.13 02:10:00 -
[22]
Edited by: Antihrist Pripravnik on 13/12/2010 02:10:55 Yeah... because nothing hurts bots as much as something that's devastating to normal players
Please, enter the text you see in this captcha.
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Noun Verber
Gallente
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Posted - 2010.12.13 02:12:00 -
[23]
Edited by: Noun Verber on 13/12/2010 02:12:08
Originally by: beautyispain
SPACE RESERVED FOR ANSWERS TO STUPID COMMENTS ABOUT HOW THIS WONT WORK:
Originally by: Tippia Because they don't work against proper bots and only serve to annoy humans.
CAPTCHA can be programmed to be very dynamic and extremely annoying/hard to crack. They can also be combined with a variety of questions and constantly kept up to date. The majority of bot users are unlikely to know much about how to keep such a complicated software up to date
Bots can already get around capcha systems easily. The bot users don't need to know anything about how to do it, all they need to do is hit the update button on their software and they get updated algorithms.
Edit:spelling
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Barkaial Starfinder
Minmatar The Kairos Syndicate Transmission Lost
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Posted - 2010.12.13 02:20:00 -
[24]
Silly idea..
"Too many bots! Lets make this game terrible!!!"
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Aiwha
Caldari
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Posted - 2010.12.13 02:44:00 -
[25]
I'd stop playing. I don't want to be treated like a criminal when I'm trying to enjoy myself.
Gullible
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Caldari Citizen20090217
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Posted - 2010.12.13 02:58:00 -
[26]
Dumb idea is dumb: why punish legit players for playing?
If you really want to beat bots do it through game mechanics and let players police it. Get rid of game mechanics that give 100% accurate info like local, and npc corp immunity. CCP gives way too much info to the game client too currently.
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William Cooly
Sol Enterprises
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Posted - 2010.12.13 03:19:00 -
[27]
ITT: OP posts stupid idea and trolls anyone who tells him so. -
I troll stupid people. |
Goremageddon Box
Minmatar Guerrilla Flotilla
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Posted - 2010.12.13 03:34:00 -
[28]
what a ****ing idiot _______________________ Hottest Character Ever. |
T'Laar Bok
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Posted - 2010.12.13 03:48:00 -
[29]
For the millionth time, CAPTCHAS are more effective in making humans believe they work against bots rather than actually working against bots.
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ILikeMarkets
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Posted - 2010.12.13 03:50:00 -
[30]
Sure, let's do it. Because a big captcha box that stops you from doing anything until you fill it out in the middle of PVP combat won't hurt anything.
Or, more realistically, the unfortunately times when it appears moments before a PvP battle is about to begin. CCP can design it to not appear in combat, but they can't predict when combat is about to begin. Free kills for the opponent of anyone unlucky enough to get hit with captcha seconds before the first shot is fired.
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