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Mess Enger
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Posted - 2010.12.13 10:37:00 -
[1]
As a new player, is it a good idea to specialize in electronic warfare or would it be a waste of time?
I'm actually in a corporation so I'm focusing on teamwork.
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Othran
Brutor tribe
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Posted - 2010.12.13 10:43:00 -
[2]
You don't get many FCs turning down ECM if its offered
Yes is the answer - you could get into a Griffin/Blackbird pretty quickly and be very effective in a gang.
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Virlomi Silver
Minmatar Samurai Syndicate
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Posted - 2010.12.13 12:33:00 -
[3]
ecm is great for letting you pick your fights and it gives your options on the field....if you are in a pvp corp and good at ecm im sure they would pay to keep you in a blackbird all the time as its hard to get ppl to fly ecm boats |
Othran
Brutor tribe
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Posted - 2010.12.13 12:45:00 -
[4]
Yeah that's a good point. People tend to get labelled as "he/she flies ECM boats" forever
Thing is though you can get T2 ECM and be in a BB/Griffin very quickly.
Once you're there then you're useful for something other than tackling - the usual new player pvp activity. That means you can take the time to train some other stuff that you might be personally interested in, without feeling you should be training stuff to "help the corp".
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Pinky Starstrider
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Posted - 2010.12.13 13:02:00 -
[5]
T2 ECM mods (the jammers themselves not the SA's) are junk. Stick with the Meta 4 mods, they have the same strength and better fitting options. On a Blackbird running 5 T2's will break your cap, in long fights not good especially if you need to warp in and out several times.
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Othran
Brutor tribe
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Posted - 2010.12.13 13:20:00 -
[6]
Originally by: Pinky Starstrider T2 ECM mods (the jammers themselves not the SA's) are junk. Stick with the Meta 4 mods, they have the same strength and better fitting options. On a Blackbird running 5 T2's will break your cap, in long fights not good especially if you need to warp in and out several times.
Quite true. However some of the racials are significantly more expensive for meta 4 and he's a new player.
Eg - A single BZ-5 in Jita is 260k less than the cost of a Blackbird.
Best to have the option.
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Mess Enger
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Posted - 2010.12.13 13:34:00 -
[7]
I didn't understand half the terms you used here but I really appreciate your feedback. I'll come back after some exhaustive research.
I read some guides about EW and all the counter-EW was bothering me, but since you say it's useful I'll follow this path. Thank you for your help. |
Oathborne
Caldari Genstar Inc
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Posted - 2010.12.13 13:40:00 -
[8]
Edited by: Oathborne on 13/12/2010 13:42:29 Whelp, It also depends on where you fight the most. If you are planning to fight mostly in Lowsec, i'd advise training a lot of "patience".
Most people in your lowsec gang/blob are going to give you a headache. Because in lowsec engagements tend to happen more on gates and stations, you are just going to lose more ECM ships than it's worth. B/C you are almost always primary as soon as you land on the field.
Your fleet mates will, at the same time, scream for you NOT to jam the target (even as their ships die to the target) and praise you for being there even if you don't jam anything. Because jamming the target forces them to de-aggress and thus be able to jump/dock.
It's really only when you get those large scale engagements out in the belts or at a PoS that ECM is worth it's weight in gold.
Happy ECMing.
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Othran
Brutor tribe
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Posted - 2010.12.13 13:45:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Mess Enger I read some guides about EW and all the counter-EW was bothering me, but since you say it's useful I'll follow this path. Thank you for your help.
Nobody really uses ECCM that much - there are certain ship types that will use it, but 95% of the time you're in a fight then nobody will be using ECCM.
Remember the other ewar types too - sensor dampeners and tracking disruptors can be very useful too, but try to fit for the bonuses of your ship so don't put them on a Blackbird
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AtheistOfFail
Caldari
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Posted - 2010.12.14 06:23:00 -
[10]
Edited by: AtheistOfFail on 14/12/2010 06:24:53 Basic fittings. For fleet support that is.
Griffin [high] Empty [mids] ecm - ion field projector ecm - phase inverter ecm - spatial destabilizer ecm - white noise generator [lows] hypnos signal amplifier
This is a cheap easy to skill for fit. For best performance get caldari frigates to 4 and the ECM skills to 4. For Ultimate performance caldari frigate to 5 and relevant ECM skills to 5. When you get caldari frigate to 5, you can just make the jump into the Kitsune EAF and use it with just EAF 1 since it only has a cap bonus linked to that skill.
You can also use the blackbird. There's 2 fits for this, gank or non-gank.
Blackbird - NonGank [high] empty [mids] Same as Griffin 10mn MWD warp disruptor [lows] 1600mm plate damage control or hypnos signal amp (your choice)
For the gank fit, put on 3 heavy missile launchers, a small smartbomb on the highs and downgrade the plate to 800mm. For best results, get caldari cruiser to 4 along with the relevant skills.
Also, use T1 until you can use T2. Then use meta4s when you can afford to blow the ISK on them.
Signed, that wierd noob who flies blackbirds and griffins.
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KRABBORG
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Posted - 2010.12.14 07:50:00 -
[11]
I'm a good mix of skills but i specialize in ECM. it isn't really popular work, mostly because a) you never really get much on the KB and b) because you're primaried often (especially if your name is in all caps).
But it really is awesome get 4 targets jammed and watch as they die to your fleet's guns (and your own). If you want to be a team player in a corp rather than just DPS, train ECM or logistics. But even logistics you'll want T2 gear and at least 3 in a fleet.
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OT Smithers
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Posted - 2010.12.14 08:42:00 -
[12]
I spent a while training ECM. From my perspective it was a waste -- it is simply too situational. Yes, when the situation is right and it works, it's amazing, but given the choice between occassionally powerful (ECM) or always great (other support skills, damage, whatever), I think your time would be better spent elsewhere.
And if nothing else, if you are interested in PvP you shouldn't be wasting your time with Caldari anyway.
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Sardon Darkstar
Caldari 0ne Percent.
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Posted - 2010.12.14 11:51:00 -
[13]
I've always enjoyed flying ECM ships, from Blackbird to Kitsune to Scorpion to Rooks/Falcons.
As ECM pilot, your primary targets will be: 1) logistics. These are ships capable of repairing other ships. For example, the Basilisk. They will usually fit ECCM, so bring your best fitting and skills. 2) ECM ships. You don't want the enemy to jam your fleetmates or, heaven forbid, you! 3) Tackle. You want your fleetmates to move freely. 4) Anything shooting at you and you have a spare jammer. Make sure that when you warp into a fight, first you align your ship to a planet or safespot and then you pick your targets. You will almost always be the primary target so be prepared to warp off. Good luck, pilot!
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Athena Silk
Stimulus Rote Kapelle
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Posted - 2010.12.14 12:13:00 -
[14]
Edited by: Athena Silk on 14/12/2010 12:18:34 People often forget that other good T1 Ewar cruiser: The Arbitrator. It takes more skills to fly than the Blackbird, and like the Blackbird it is kind of situational (Doesn't work so well against Drake blobs), but it can be kind of fun, and often underestimated.
A fit like this is reasonably cheap and pretty effective:
[Arbitrator, Drone Boat] Damage Control II 800mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II
Y-T8 Overcharged Hydrocarbon I Microwarpdrive DDO Photometry Tracking Disruptor I, Tracking Speed Disruption DDO Photometry Tracking Disruptor I, Tracking Speed Disruption F-23 Reciprocal Sensor Cluster Link, Scan Resolution
Drone Link Augmentor I Medium 'Gremlin' Power Core Disruptor I Medium 'Gremlin' Power Core Disruptor I Small Energy Neutralizer II
Medium Tracking Diagnostic Subroutines I Medium Particle Dispersion Projector I
Warrior II x5 Hobgoblin II x5 Hammerhead II x5 Vespa EC-600 x5
Neuts are mainly there to screw [Arbitrator, Drone Boat] Damage Control II 800mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II
Y-T8 Overcharged Hydrocarbon I Microwarpdrive DDO Photometry Tracking Disruptor I, Tracking Speed Disruption DDO Photometry Tracking Disruptor I, Tracking Speed Disruption F-23 Reciprocal Sensor Cluster Link, Scan Resolution
Drone Link Augmentor I Medium 'Gremlin' Power Core Disruptor I Medium 'Gremlin' Power Core Disruptor I Small Energy Neutralizer II
Medium Tracking Diagnostic Subroutines I Medium Particle Dispersion Projector I
Warrior II x5 Hobgoblin II x5 Hammerhead II x5 Vespa EC-600 x5
Hang back from the main fight and use your ECM drones and TDs to shut down turret ships, or apply DPS with the Hammerheads if that's what is called for. The neuts are mainly there to shut down any frigates that burn out towards you while you recall drones and send out the Warrior II's. With reasonable cap skills you can perma-run the TDs + RSB + small neut, but try to avoid MWD'ing around too much, since you don't have a lot of cap.
You can swap the Remote Sensor Booster for a 3rd TD or whatever, but logistics and interceptors love the RSB (just make sure you don't attack them xD). It's a bit of a slow pig (7.5 second align time, 1260 m/s), so you could always go with an MSE shield tank (and resist/CDFE rigs instead of the TD ones) and nano out the lows if you're in a fast gang. Alternatively, you can drop one of the the medium neuts down to a small and ditch the RSB for a medium cap booster, if you want a bit more cap available to you.
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Dracvlad
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Posted - 2010.12.14 21:30:00 -
[15]
As a Scorpion pilot, this:
Originally by: Sardon Darkstar I've always enjoyed flying ECM ships, from Blackbird to Kitsune to Scorpion to Rooks/Falcons.
As ECM pilot, your primary targets will be: 1) logistics. These are ships capable of repairing other ships. For example, the Basilisk. They will usually fit ECCM, so bring your best fitting and skills. 2) ECM ships. You don't want the enemy to jam your fleetmates or, heaven forbid, you! 3) Tackle. You want your fleetmates to move freely. 4) Anything shooting at you and you have a spare jammer. Make sure that when you warp into a fight, first you align your ship to a planet or safespot and then you pick your targets. You will almost always be the primary target so be prepared to warp off. Good luck, pilot!
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Mess Enger
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Posted - 2010.12.15 00:38:00 -
[16]
Thanks for all the advices guys
I finally fitted a griffin while training for a ECM cruiser and I tried some PvP with a friend. Jamming worked as intended but their drones would have killed me too easily. Lack of skills I guess. The guide I'm following dates from 2008 and it says that ECM Bursts aren't as effective as they should be. In the battlefield what could a ECM pilot do to protect himself against drones? I haven't seen any defense module in any fit (except in the aligator one)
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Jamradar
Minmatar Autocannons Anonymous
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Posted - 2010.12.15 04:53:00 -
[17]
did someone say ecm? cause I thought I heard ecm
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Pinky Starstrider
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Posted - 2010.12.15 05:32:00 -
[18]
To combat drones I usually fit a Smart Bomb or two. It sucks when I have to recap sometimes but its better than popping.
Another trick you can do is on Warp in to a PVP encounter add a book mark just before you land (like the last 10-20K try and do it as you are just starting coming out of warp.) When you begin engaing people and jaming them align to this bookmark. When their drones begin moving to you wait until they are almost on you and warp off. If you did this ideally you will almost insta land, then you can turn and warp back in time to relock your jam target before his first jam cycle is off.
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Soldarius
Caldari Independent Coalition
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Posted - 2010.12.15 10:38:00 -
[19]
Things you need to understand about ECM:
any single ECM module's chance to jam a ship is determined by the formula (Jam strength / sensor strength). So if your module has a jam strength of 10 and the targeted ship has a sensor strength of 20, you have an even 50/50 chance to jam it. This chance is proportionately reduced when you jam in falloff range. Stay in optimal to maintain your max chance to jam, or take a reduced chance for some extra range.
Every cycle of the module lasts 20 seconds unless you trained that stupid skill that reduces your cycle time (and thus increases your cap usage).
ECCM modules increase the sensor strength of the ship using them (active ECCM in a mid slot doubles the sensor strength), thereby reducing the chance of getting jammed. For battleships or other ships with already high sensor strengths, they suddenly get much harder to jam.
Originally by: CCP Masterplan "I'm cruel because I love you."
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Jaigar
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Posted - 2010.12.15 14:32:00 -
[20]
I've been in 2 instances the last 2 weeks where 1 ECM would have gotten us carrier kills (in wormholes).
Don't underrate that Jam Cycle reduction skill. It makes a huge difference against targets with ECCM, because you get that many more opportunites to jam.
But yeah, blackbirds get primaried quickly, along with falcons and rooks, but if you have enough logis or going against small numbers of targets, they work just fine.
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Zyress
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Posted - 2010.12.15 15:49:00 -
[21]
I don't know if I'm suddenly getting into thrill seeking or if its a death wish but I find myself wanting to wander in lo-sec in this. [Griffin, Griffin Pwnmobile] Signal Distortion Amplifier II
Cold-Gas I Arcjet Thrusters ECM - Multispectral Jammer II ECM - Multispectral Jammer II Warp Scrambler II
Rocket Launcher II, Caldari Navy Foxfire Rocket Rocket Launcher II, Caldari Navy Foxfire Rocket Small Energy Neutralizer II
Small Particle Dispersion Augmentor I Small Particle Dispersion Projector I Small Polycarbon Engine Housing I
Warrior II x1
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K'racker
Minmatar Brutor tribe
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Posted - 2010.12.17 13:57:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Soldarius
Every cycle of the module lasts 20 seconds unless you trained that stupid skill that reduces your cycle time (and thus increases your cap usage).
Originally by: Jaigar
Don't underrate that Jam Cycle reduction skill. It makes a huge difference against targets with ECCM, because you get that many more opportunites to jam.
what skill are you guys talking about ?? projected electronic countermeasures? i thought that only affected remote ecm burst.
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Soporo
Caldari
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Posted - 2010.12.17 16:02:00 -
[23]
Edited by: Soporo on 17/12/2010 16:03:14
Quote: Nobody really uses ECCM that much - there are certain ship types that will use it, but 95% of the time you're in a fight then nobody will be using ECCM.
Yeah, lots of people won't fit ECCM but will whine incessantly about ECM anyway.
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