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fuxinos
Caldari Guys 0f Sarcasm
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Posted - 2010.12.16 11:16:00 -
[31]
Originally by: Lugalzagezi666 Come back as soon you will be able to properly fit a ship.
If you need 2 TEs on a Sleipnir you just fail hard.
What I posted for the Sleip is the cookie cutter setup and the fit for NH is just for comparisson...
I even said it doesnt fit, idiot...
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Lugalzagezi666
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Posted - 2010.12.16 11:25:00 -
[32]
No, cookie cutter sleip is fited with 2 gyros and 2 tes /since dominion/ and ofc kin resist rig. And nighthawk fit for comparison is ******ed because if it had xxx pg more then noone would use hams on it as well as noone would fly nighthawk without em resist rig.
If you dont realize it, then you are idiot.
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Baudolino
Gallente Royal Crimson Lancers
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Posted - 2010.12.16 11:37:00 -
[33]
Nighthawk is not a pvp ship - period..
Sleipnir is one of the best pvp ships around- so long as there is not a neuting ship in the area.
Sleipnir gets 1000 DPS with optimal fit/skills and has a tank that can take something of a beating. IF you have a gangboosting vulture or tengu it gets really interesting.
It is however incredibly vulnerable to any neuting ships. Being a BC it doesn`t have a large cap and even dual neuting hurricanes can be a problem if you need to keep the booster running.
There is nothing OP about the sleipnir. It has low shield HP and low cap for the needs of the x-large shield boost. It`s a very strong ship with a major achilles heal, like alot of other seemingly strong ships...
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fuxinos
Caldari Guys 0f Sarcasm
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Posted - 2010.12.16 11:44:00 -
[34]
Edited by: fuxinos on 16/12/2010 11:44:58
Originally by: Lugalzagezi666 No, cookie cutter sleip is fited with 2 gyros and 2 tes /since dominion/ and ofc kin resist rig. And nighthawk fit for comparison is ******ed because if it had xxx pg more then noone would use hams on it as well as noone would fly nighthawk without em resist rig.
If you dont realize it, then you are idiot.
A Sleip doesnt need 2 TEs, not even after Dominion, it never needed a TE since autos track realy well and it has a falloff bonus anyway.
Resist rigs on the other hand are always bad since they only help against one specific type of damage and not all and tbh, its not realy a resist hole, its just its lowest resist and nothingelse. 0-20% is a resist hole and not 63%.
Rather put something on that helps your tank against any damage rather then just one type.
Originally by: Lugalzagezi666
And nighthawk fit for comparison is ******ed because if it had xxx pg more then noone would use hams on it as well as noone would fly nighthawk without em resist rig.
And this doesnt make any sense.
Originally by: Baudolino here is nothing OP about the sleipnir.
No one said anything like that, its just the NH being so terribly weak in comparisson.
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achoura
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Posted - 2010.12.16 11:45:00 -
[35]
He's right you know, cap safeguards are mainly for xl booster fits, large boosters don't need them (unless they're worried about neuts) and should really be used to plug the gaps in the tank. Also, ac without te makes ppl cry these days.
Still, command ships as a whole have needed looking at for a long time and a fail to see the point in trying to compare a long range ship to a short range one when everyone knows the nh has had fitting issues since the beginning of time (just like the chimera). ***The EVE servers and their patches***
[b]"the data does not seem to support that polished quality sells b |
Wardeneo
Minmatar
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Posted - 2010.12.16 11:48:00 -
[36]
Edited by: Wardeneo on 16/12/2010 11:50:42 Edited by: Wardeneo on 16/12/2010 11:48:48
/me sighs, another caldari " y is my wtfpwn ship not the best" :(....
NH is fine! - and slepnir is harder to fly imo - thats y pros use them ;)
slep is very cap sensive and has to worry about range and tracking , keeping in tackle range etc, wheres as nh is simple align/orbit, shoot, tank, have some 1 else tackle ^^
75% of caldari players understand the fundamental principle that there ships ( or any race ships) cant do everything right.... its a shame the other 25% dont get this n feel the compulsive need to whine ^^
PPL need to stop whining about the little thing and focus on the big things --> HYBRIDS!!!!
mwhahahah look what ive started ^^ :)
/me awaits the trolls
* FLAME ON *
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- Wardeneo -
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fuxinos
Caldari Guys 0f Sarcasm
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Posted - 2010.12.16 11:51:00 -
[37]
Edited by: fuxinos on 16/12/2010 11:52:58
Originally by: achoura
Still, command ships as a whole have needed looking at for a long time and a fail to see the point in trying to compare a long range ship to a short range one when everyone knows the nh has had fitting issues since the beginning of time (just like the chimera).
I fail to see the point why you assume the NH is a long range dps ship.
It doesnt even have a single range bonus.
Just because HM have huge range doesnt say the ship which can fit them is suppossed to be long range only.
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Wardeneo
Minmatar
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Posted - 2010.12.16 11:57:00 -
[38]
Originally by: fuxinos Edited by: fuxinos on 16/12/2010 11:52:58
Originally by: achoura
Still, command ships as a whole have needed looking at for a long time and a fail to see the point in trying to compare a long range ship to a short range one when everyone knows the nh has had fitting issues since the beginning of time (just like the chimera).
I fail to see the point why you assume the NH is a long range dps ship.
It doesnt even have a single range bonus.
Just because HM have huge range doesnt say the ship which can fit them is suppossed to be long range only.
AGRRED... n y do u (achoura) need a bonus if you can shoot 80km anyway? if u want a 200km missle spammer get a cerb, simple mkay... .
- Wardeneo -
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Wardeneo
Minmatar
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Posted - 2010.12.16 12:00:00 -
[39]
Originally by: achoura Edited by: achoura on 16/12/2010 11:47:19 when everyone knows the nh has had fitting issues since the beginning of time (just like the chimera).
OHHH NOO!!!! its not like other races dont have fitting issues is it (/me looks at the co-pro t2 on my slep + the pg rigs/mods on alot of my gellente ships), poor caldari players :( .... .
- Wardeneo -
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Lugalzagezi666
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Posted - 2010.12.16 12:01:00 -
[40]
Originally by: fuxinos A Sleip doesnt need 2 TEs... Nighthawk is not long range dps ship... etc
Ty for making me lol. Also that it makes no sense to you doesnt change anything about thing that its fact. But feel free to fly ham nighthawk without plugged em hole or sleip without plugged kin resist and without tes.
Originally by: Baudolino Nighthawk is not a pvp ship - period..
Wrong.
Originally by: Baudolino Sleipnir is one of the best pvp ships around
Not 100% true but close.
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fuxinos
Caldari Guys 0f Sarcasm
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Posted - 2010.12.16 12:03:00 -
[41]
Edited by: fuxinos on 16/12/2010 12:06:39
Originally by: Lugalzagezi666
Originally by: fuxinos A Sleip doesnt need 2 TEs... Nighthawk is not long range dps ship... etc
Ty for making me lol. Also that it makes no sense to you doesnt change anything about thing that its fact. But feel free to fly ham nighthawk without plugged em hole or sleip without plugged kin resist and without tes.
Do you even READ??
Fact is, any competent player would simply use Depleted Uranium or Titanium Sabot to get more tracking then with 2 TEs.
Fact is, I said that 0-20% IS a resist hole... and I would plug it on a NH...
My god your realy annoying.
Originally by: Wardeneo
Originally by: achoura Edited by: achoura on 16/12/2010 11:47:19 when everyone knows the nh has had fitting issues since the beginning of time (just like the chimera).
OHHH NOO!!!! its not like other races dont have fitting issues is it (/me looks at the co-pro t2 on my slep + the pg rigs/mods on alot of my gellente ships), poor caldari players :( ....
Oh yea, because Minmatar needs fitting mods xD
You know, Gallente, Amarr and Minmatar always have the option to downgrade, Caldari doesnt.
Wheres my electron HAM? Wheres my 180mm HAM? Wheres my focused medium HAM?
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Wardeneo
Minmatar
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Posted - 2010.12.16 12:09:00 -
[42]
Edited by: Wardeneo on 16/12/2010 12:09:04
Originally by: fuxinos
You know, Gallente, Amarr and Minmatar always have the option to downgrade, Caldari doesnt.
Wheres my electron HAM? Wheres my 180mm HAM? Wheres my focused medium HAM?
HML t2 = 105pg (base) --> 720 howitzer t2 = 275pg (base) --> heavy beam laser t2 = 275 pg (base) --> 250mm t2 rail gun = 236pg (base) and u ask y most races have smaller/downgradable versions ^^ .
- Wardeneo -
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achoura
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Posted - 2010.12.16 12:09:00 -
[43]
Edited by: achoura on 16/12/2010 12:10:45 Actually the NH has no range bonus, it tends to sit around 40/50 km where it needs less of a tank, but you'll also be hard pressed to find anyone who doesn't think it needs more fitting just to be able to load a gang link, something the sleipnir can do without any cor pro
What says it can't be used close range? Well, actually you did, when you pointed out it's several hundred grid short of fitting hams. They're different ships with supposedly different jobs but it's pointless taking only 2, only built for a close/mid range weapon system, one built for a mid/long range weapon system out of context.
The astarte, eos, nh and abso all have issues (something pretty much everyone agrees on) and the class as a whole needs looking at imo. Although I believe Fon Revedhort has demonstrated effective pvp use of the nh for several years
Edit: te add range, not just racking, thus increasing applied damage at range. It's far better to pop close range ships at a distance tbh. ***The EVE servers and their patches***
[b]"the data does not seem to support that polished quality sells b |
Wardeneo
Minmatar
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Posted - 2010.12.16 12:11:00 -
[44]
Edited by: Wardeneo on 16/12/2010 12:12:17 Edited by: Wardeneo on 16/12/2010 12:11:14
Originally by: achoura Actually the NH has no range bonus, it tends to sit around 40/50 km where it needs less of a tank
THIS!
Originally by: achoura but you'll also be hard pressed to find anyone who doesn't think it needs more fitting just to be able to load a gang link, something the sleipnir can do without any cor pro
this is irelivent - imo if u want gang links geta vulture ^^ :) <-- n im entitled to my own oppinion .
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fuxinos
Caldari Guys 0f Sarcasm
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Posted - 2010.12.16 12:14:00 -
[45]
Originally by: Wardeneo Edited by: Wardeneo on 16/12/2010 12:09:04
Originally by: fuxinos
You know, Gallente, Amarr and Minmatar always have the option to downgrade, Caldari doesnt.
Wheres my electron HAM? Wheres my 180mm HAM? Wheres my focused medium HAM?
HML t2 = 105pg (base) --> 720 howitzer t2 = 275pg (base) --> heavy beam laser t2 = 275 pg (base) --> 250mm t2 rail gun = 236pg (base) and u ask y most races have smaller/downgradable versions ^^
Been talking about HAMs (Heavy Assault Missile Launcher)
Heavy Assault Missile Launcher = 126PG (base) Dual 180mm Autocannons = 88PG (base)
But, NH getting 710 grid and Sleipnir 1460.
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1600 RT
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Posted - 2010.12.16 12:23:00 -
[46]
Originally by: fuxinos Edited by: fuxinos on 16/12/2010 10:01:27
Originally by: Mavnas So I was playing around with EFT, and got this:
This is a proper Sleipnir:
[Sleipnir, New Setup 2] Gyrostabilizer II Gyrostabilizer II Gyrostabilizer II Nanofiber Internal Structure II Damage Control II
Medium Capacitor Booster II, Cap Booster 800 10MN MicroWarpdrive II Warp Disruptor II Invulnerability Field II Caldari Navy X-Large Shield Booster
220mm Vulcan AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet EMP M 220mm Vulcan AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet EMP M 220mm Vulcan AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet EMP M 220mm Vulcan AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet EMP M 220mm Vulcan AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet EMP M 220mm Vulcan AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet EMP M 220mm Vulcan AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet EMP M Medium Energy Neutralizer II
Medium Core Defence Capacitor safeguard II Medium Core Defence Capacitor safeguard II
Warrior II x5
750+ dps 750+ dps tank
Compared to this, which doesnt even remotly fit, because it lacks over 800PG and 30 CPU:
[Nighthawk, New Setup 1] Ballistic Control System II Ballistic Control System II Ballistic Control System II Nanofiber Internal Structure II Damage Control II
Medium Capacitor Booster II, Cap Booster 800 10MN MicroWarpdrive II Warp Disruptor II Invulnerability Field II Dread Guristas X-Large Shield Booster
Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Terror Assault Missile Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Terror Assault Missile Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Terror Assault Missile Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Terror Assault Missile Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Terror Assault Missile Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Terror Assault Missile Medium Energy Neutralizer II
Medium Core Defence Capacitor safeguard II Medium Core Defence Capacitor safeguard II
Warrior II x5
650+ dps 650+ dps tank
Even assuming this would fit, Sleipnir would still be superior...
NH isnt meant to fit HAM nor a XL booster
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Wardeneo
Minmatar
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Posted - 2010.12.16 12:33:00 -
[47]
Edited by: Wardeneo on 16/12/2010 12:36:12
Originally by: fuxinos
Heavy Assault Missile Launcher = 126PG (base)
WOW im sorry !
Originally by: fuxinos Heavy Assault Missile Launcher = 126PG (base)Dual 180mm Autocannons = 88PG (base)
But, NH getting 710 grid and Sleipnir 1460.
who actually fits dual 180's on a slep? ^^ most ppl run 220 vulcans/ 425 mm ac's ^^
at the end of the day nothing is perfect, so get over it like most people do and/or train for a slep if there so awsomely overpowered ^^
and... just for u...
[Nighthawk, HML] Power Diagnostic System II Power Diagnostic System II Ballistic Control System II Ballistic Control System II Ballistic Control System II
Shield Boost Amplifier II Large Shield Booster II Invulnerability Field II Photon Scattering Field II Medium Capacitor Booster II, Cap Booster 800
Heavy Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Heavy Missile Heavy Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Heavy Missile Heavy Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Heavy Missile Heavy Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Heavy Missile Heavy Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Heavy Missile Heavy Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Heavy Missile [empty high slot]
Medium Core Defence Operational Solidifier I Medium Core Defence Operational Solidifier I
Hobgoblin II x5
600dps @ 75km, 75km lock range with a 608/608 defence.....
[Sleipnir, arties] Gyrostabilizer II Gyrostabilizer II Power Diagnostic System II Power Diagnostic System II Power Diagnostic System II
Shield Boost Amplifier II Large Shield Booster II Invulnerability Field II Invulnerability Field II Medium Capacitor Booster II, Cap Booster 800
720mm Howitzer Artillery II, Tremor M 720mm Howitzer Artillery II, Tremor M 720mm Howitzer Artillery II, Tremor M 720mm Howitzer Artillery II, Tremor M 720mm Howitzer Artillery II, Tremor M 720mm Howitzer Artillery II, Tremor M 720mm Howitzer Artillery II, Tremor M [empty high slot]
Medium Core Defence Operational Solidifier I Medium Core Defence Operational Solidifier I
Hammerhead II x3 Hobgoblin II x2
400dps@54+33km, 55km lock range and a 684 over 684 tank...
so what we got here... the NH has 200 more dps at range , slightly worse tank and it can lock as far as it can shoot... and the slep less lock range , less dps, slightly better tank,
does this not tell u anything.... NH is better at range , slep is better up close...
u cant have a ship that beats every1 at every thing so quit whining and move on...
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Wardeneo
Minmatar
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Posted - 2010.12.16 12:35:00 -
[48]
Originally by: 1600 RT
NH isnt meant to fit HAM nor a XL booster
this..... .
- Wardeneo -
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Lugalzagezi666
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Posted - 2010.12.16 12:42:00 -
[49]
Edited by: Lugalzagezi666 on 16/12/2010 12:44:07 From what i heard nh wasnt meant to be able to fit mwd heh.
But ofc pg is only one of the reasons to avoid hams. Another is that hams can be kited and nighthawk is slow + there is "one mid less than drake" thing. Go out with hams without web and make your own opinion...
Also should i mention that going closerange with 200m+ ship is a bad idea? Especially when you wont be able to control range and when t1 bc does almost as good /thanks to 1 more mid/.
Not that it changes something on a fact that nighthawks pg is really low if you want to active tank it /with hmls/ and that sleip is generally better pvp ship.
Originally by: Wardeneo winsauce fits
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1600 RT
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Posted - 2010.12.16 12:47:00 -
[50]
Originally by: Lugalzagezi666 From what i heard nh wasnt meant to be able to fit mwd heh.
But ofc pg is only one of the reasons to avoid hams. Another is that hams can be kited and nighthawk is slow + there is "one mid less than drake" thing. Go out with hams without web and make your own opinion...
Also should i mention that going closerange with 200m+ ship is a bad idea? Especially when you wont be able to control range and when t1 bc does almost as good /thanks to 1 more mid/.
Not that it changes something on a fact that nighthawks pg is really low if you want to active tank it /with hmls/ and that sleip is generally better pvp ship.
sleip have a shield boost bonus = active tank NH for your luck have a resist bonus wich work well with buffer tanks. the NH grid its just fine to fit full rack of HML + mwd + tank with a single fitting mod you can fit HAM +mwd+tank with still 3 BCU + a DC2
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Lugalzagezi666
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Posted - 2010.12.16 12:55:00 -
[51]
Originally by: 1600 RT ...
Ok, so lets fit all ships according to bonuses - shield brutix? fail, small gun vexor? mse hawk? ac punisher? fail. Wait, wouldnt it be better if we based our fittings on ships description?
Btw sleip can work very well buffer tanked and for many ppl its actually standard fit. Shouldnt be nh able to fit decent active tank without need of faction/cosmos mods then?
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Wardeneo
Minmatar
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Posted - 2010.12.16 13:01:00 -
[52]
Edited by: Wardeneo on 16/12/2010 13:02:49 Edited by: Wardeneo on 16/12/2010 13:01:20
Originally by: Lugalzagezi666
shield brutix? fail, small gun vexor? mse hawk? ac punisher? fail. Wait, wouldnt it be better if we based our fittings on ships description?
its ppl's choice if they wish to fly diferent setups to the ccp set norm.... e.g ac punisher... ccp intended for it to use lasers but if ppl want to use ac's thats fine....
get over it...
some things do work, i agree but u cant expect ccp to re-design most ships of eve because ppl have found better solutions that work for them..
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Pinky Starstrider
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Posted - 2010.12.16 13:13:00 -
[53]
hmmmm seems the NH is clearly more OP than the drake. Can not wait to see NERF NH threads in 3 months when people just fly it @ 75K and rain missiles of doom all over the place.
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Diesel47
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Posted - 2010.12.16 13:26:00 -
[54]
Originally by: Loradan Illstari Edited by: Loradan Illstari on 15/12/2010 20:18:00
Originally by: Candyspy
Originally by: Merwe Roughly 600 powergrid for 6 heavy launchers while around 1000 powergrid for 7 425mm autocannons
okay, that accounts for 400 powergrid. What about the other 500? (HAY guess how much power grid an x-large shield booster needs!)
CCP hates Caldari. Questions?
Nice avatar.
Confirming CCP hates caldari.
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Gypsio III
Dirty Filthy Perverts
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Posted - 2010.12.16 13:29:00 -
[55]
I'm happy to accept that the NH isn't supposed to fit HAMs. I'm less keen to accept that it shouldn't be able to fit an XLSB - I don't see how this could make it overpowered in any fashion. I absolutely won't accept that it's not supposed to fit a gang link.
People say that if you want gang links you should use a Fleet CS. And they're right. But if you want DPS and a gang link, in a small gang where you need the extra DPS and can't afford to dedicate a single pilot to a fleet CS, you should jump into a Field CS - because otherwise there's no point to the field CS as a class. People also sometimes ask why a field CS should expect to be able to fit a gang link easily when it has the same bonuses to links as a bog-standard battlecruiser. Again, if not, then there's not really any point to the field CS as a class.
But with a gang mod, a HML Nighthawk can't even fit a LSB without multiple fitting mods! In fact, it can't fit any shield booster, or a cap injector, or even a MWD! You run out of PG just fitting the gang link and HMLs!
[Nighthawk, LSB] Damage Control II Reactor Control Unit II Reactor Control Unit II Power Diagnostic System II Ballistic Control System II
Y-T8 Overcharged Hydrocarbon I Microwarpdrive Medium Electrochemical Capacitor Booster I, Cap Booster 25 Caldari Navy Large Shield Booster Invulnerability Field II Warp Disruptor II
Heavy Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Scourge Heavy Missile Heavy Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Scourge Heavy Missile Heavy Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Scourge Heavy Missile Heavy Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Scourge Heavy Missile Heavy Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Scourge Heavy Missile Heavy Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Scourge Heavy Missile Skirmish Warfare Link - Interdiction Manoeuvres
Medium Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer II Medium Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer II
That's three fitting mods just for that basic LSB fit! Crazy. But even with a basic buffer fit you still need two fitting mods!
[Nighthawk, Buffer] Damage Control II Reactor Control Unit II Power Diagnostic System II Ballistic Control System II Ballistic Control System II
Y-T8 Overcharged Hydrocarbon I Microwarpdrive Warp Disruptor II Large Shield Extender II Invulnerability Field II Photon Scattering Field II
Heavy Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Scourge Heavy Missile Heavy Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Scourge Heavy Missile Heavy Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Scourge Heavy Missile Heavy Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Scourge Heavy Missile Heavy Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Scourge Heavy Missile Heavy Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Scourge Heavy Missile Skirmish Warfare Link - Interdiction Maneuvers
Medium Core Defence Field Extender I Medium Core Defence Field Extender I
Frankly, the whole field CS class and gang links need a rework. The Gallente ones are too niche and the Minmatar ones are too good. It's absurd and excessive that Interdiction Manoeuvres affects all three of webs, scrambler and disruptors - it should only affect webs, while Gallente should have a link (or two) that increases scrambler and disruptor range. The sig-radius-reduction link is too powerful too - when X-Instinct was reworked from speed to sig radius its potency was chopped down to something sensible because it was recognised that signature is a pretty important attribute, but the bonus of Evasive Manoeuvres was ignored, so that now a Strong X-Instinct is only half as effective as a Loki's Evasive Manouevres link.
Hopefully the proliferation of ganglink T3s while eventually force CCP to look at this in 2012 or something.
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1600 RT
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Posted - 2010.12.16 13:42:00 -
[56]
oh CCP please look at the vagabond i cant fit a full rack of 720mm artillery mwd and a MEDIUM shield booster w/o at least 3 RCU this need to fixed asap
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Jhagiti Tyran
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Posted - 2010.12.16 16:11:00 -
[57]
@fuxinos.
you do not fit a tracking enhancer to a Sleip to get tracking you fit it because it actually functions as a damage mod, down to the way falloff mechanics work an extra few KM of falloff can give more results damage wise than a heavily stack nerfed 3rd or 4th Gyro and the extra tracking also plays a part in damage application although its not really necessary.
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