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KaarBaak
Minmatar Seatec Astronomy
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Posted - 2010.12.16 18:50:00 -
[31]
Edited by: KaarBaak on 16/12/2010 18:51:01
Originally by: Decarus
Originally by: KaarBaak Dude,
I wasn't making an argument. I had to look those up as I was reading the OP and assumed that one or two others might have to, as well.
Just trying to be helpful. TBH, even after knowing what all the words mean, I'm still unable to clearly understand what the OP is on about, exactly.
Man! I was genuinely excited about reaching a new oratory level!!
KB
Now I have to look up "oratory?" It better not be a sex-thing.
KB
Man! I was genuinely excited about reaching a new oratory level!!
Circumstances rule men; men do not rule circumstances. --Herodotus, Histories
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Decarus
Amarr Apostlecorp inc.
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Posted - 2010.12.16 19:07:00 -
[32]
See! This topic is useful!!
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Joss56
Gallente The Scope
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Posted - 2010.12.16 19:09:00 -
[33]
Nah i stil can't shoot forum rats ________________________________________________
"You do realise you live on a globe, right? And that there places outside the USA/UK?"
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Ozmodan
Minmatar Native Freshfood
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Posted - 2010.12.16 19:16:00 -
[34]
I stopped reading after the first paragraph. Posters that can't write should not pollute the forums with such gobbledy****! Learners permit still current |
Diomedes Calypso
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Posted - 2010.12.16 19:44:00 -
[35]
Originally by: Cyaxares II
Originally by: CCP Prism X Reading the test feedback thread: It seems to me that some people report free remaps and some people do not.
Linkage
Originally by: CCP Navigator Important update: We intended to give every character a free neural remap as part of the Incursion 1.0.1 release. We have been made aware that not every character has received a free remap and we will aim to fix this during downtime on Thursday, December 16. We thank you for your patience.
Linkage
now, that's excellence.
More truthful description
If you havn't been using your remaps and had an extra one or two alread, we're giving you another one to add to your hoard. If you don't get one, please contact us.
Players who have used their remap with int the last twelve months will just see that they can remap now.
Don't contact us. We have no intention of giving those players free remaps just to let them use what they'll get in a few months now instead.
We know that when many of you plan that plan ahead actually wanted the attributes you mapped to for the duration of the period , that being able to change them now does you no good at all. If we gave your ôfree remapö stacked on top like we gave the other guys, you 'd make really good use of them . We really don't want you guys who use them effectively to continue to gain advantage from doing so... so that's why we gave you the lesser gift.
Also, we know even among you that those of you who had the remap coming in the next few days anyway got next to nothing while others that just happened to have another come available got a whole lot.. but LOL we don't care.. because we don't have too !
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Cipher Jones
Minmatar
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Posted - 2010.12.16 20:38:00 -
[36]
Ignorance is bliss.
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oldmanst4r
Minmatar oldmanst4r's Corporation
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Posted - 2010.12.16 20:46:00 -
[37]
Go die in a hole (ingame).
Originally by: CCP Shadow
*snip* Castration successful. Shadow.
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Piercing Silence
Cloakers
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Posted - 2010.12.16 20:48:00 -
[38]
Way to many words. You couldn't have made this stupid thread shorter? I'm not reading that.
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Diomedes Calypso
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Posted - 2010.12.16 22:04:00 -
[39]
Originally by: Decarus
Originally by: KaarBaak
Just to save some readers a couple of clicks and some time:
Sophistry - a method of argument that is seemingly plausible though actually invalid and misleading
Intransigence - the trait of being intransigent; stubbornly refusing to compromise
pathological - Of, relating to, or manifesting behavior that is habitual, maladaptive, and compulsive
This glossary provided at no additional charge.
KB
I like big words too! I would love if you could string them together into an argument. I'm being super-cereal here! If you can make an argument of less than 250 words including all these words that is logically sound.. I'll at least tip my hat off to you sir!
In suggesting that the remap-gift implementation was designed to be consistent with their policy of discouraging the hoarding of remaps, CCP truly engages in a dandy bit of sophistry.
The ôgift' structure that they chose is biased in the opposite direction: they add to the hoard of those already storing remaps and give far less value to those who used their remaps instead of ôhoardingö them. Another excuse for not implementing a more fair method is that stacking another available remap at the end of the expiration timer(for those that had no remaps available) would be counter to the normal remap rules. This statement is true on its face but it's use as a justification of uneven treatment isn't a valid distinction: all of the remap ôgiftsö are outside of the system's normal function.
Their response to frustrated players' grievances appears to be taking an intransigent position that their decisions final and that they will not consider simple ways to make the reward benefit even.
Overlooking players' perceptions of fair treatment in favor of often quite small savings in programer or moderator effort strikes me as maladaptive habit of CCP's. Their reflex- responses are regularly defensive and show an almost guttural inability to open their minds enough to address the issues. If this type of handling were a one time event, it would hardly be a concern, yet looking at the history I could describe it as a pathological element of their corporate culture.
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Enuen Ravenseye
Malevolence.
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Posted - 2010.12.16 22:17:00 -
[40]
Originally by: Diomedes Calypso
Originally by: Decarus
Originally by: KaarBaak
Just to save some readers a couple of clicks and some time:
Sophistry - a method of argument that is seemingly plausible though actually invalid and misleading
Intransigence - the trait of being intransigent; stubbornly refusing to compromise
pathological - Of, relating to, or manifesting behavior that is habitual, maladaptive, and compulsive
This glossary provided at no additional charge.
KB
I like big words too! I would love if you could string them together into an argument. I'm being super-cereal here! If you can make an argument of less than 250 words including all these words that is logically sound.. I'll at least tip my hat off to you sir!
In suggesting that the remap-gift implementation was designed to be consistent with their policy of discouraging the hoarding of remaps, CCP truly engages in a dandy bit of sophistry.
The ôgift' structure that they chose is biased in the opposite direction: they add to the hoard of those already storing remaps and give far less value to those who used their remaps instead of ôhoardingö them. Another excuse for not implementing a more fair method is that stacking another available remap at the end of the expiration timer(for those that had no remaps available) would be counter to the normal remap rules. This statement is true on its face but it's use as a justification of uneven treatment isn't a valid distinction: all of the remap ôgiftsö are outside of the system's normal function.
Their response to frustrated players' grievances appears to be taking an intransigent position that their decisions final and that they will not consider simple ways to make the reward benefit even.
Overlooking players' perceptions of fair treatment in favor of often quite small savings in programer or moderator effort strikes me as maladaptive habit of CCP's. Their reflex- responses are regularly defensive and show an almost guttural inability to open their minds enough to address the issues. If this type of handling were a one time event, it would hardly be a concern, yet looking at the history I could describe it as a pathological element of their corporate culture.
Just so we're all clear: you're *****ing about some tiny mechanic in a niche computer game that the vast majority of the world could not care less about, and using that as the basis for your argument against corporate unfairness? Gothca'
Sorry, but I really cannot be bothered to give rat's ass about your perception of the situation, as I do not share it.
Basic info regarding corporations (since you seem to be unaware): they do NOT exist to make you - a non-shareholder - happy in any way. Period. If you cannot understand econ 101, please move to North Korea and enjoy your communism.
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Mag's
the united Negative Ten.
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Posted - 2010.12.16 22:19:00 -
[41]
OP should biomass and quit Eve.
Originally by: Allestin Villimar Also, if your bookmarks are too far out, they can and will ban you for it.
Originally by: Torothanax Low population in w systems makes afk cloaking unattractive. |
Wiki Leaks
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Posted - 2010.12.16 22:21:00 -
[42]
Originally by: Cyaxares II
Originally by: CCP Prism X Reading the test feedback thread: It seems to me that some people report free remaps and some people do not.
Linkage
Originally by: CCP Navigator Important update: We intended to give every character a free neural remap as part of the Incursion 1.0.1 release. We have been made aware that not every character has received a free remap and we will aim to fix this during downtime on Thursday, December 16. We thank you for your patience.
Linkage
now, that's excellence.
Yes, but only by consensus decree.
Actual excellence is getting it right first time.
Modern Day Excellence is, sometimes deliberately, ****ing something up simply so you can make a big song and dance about being the rugged fire fighter that puts out that nasty fire.
Look around your work place... is the guy who always gets it right getting all the praise and promotions? Or is it the useless idiot who keep crapping it up, banging in loads of overtime to fix his own mess, pulling in extra resources (other people) to help with the masses of work he's got going on, making as big a splash as possible so all the bosses see him, is it him getting all the tea and medals?
Excellence. Not what it used to mean.
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Grez
Neo Spartans Laconian Syndicate
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Posted - 2010.12.16 22:24:00 -
[43]
OP obviously works on one of the largest databases known to the gaming world and so know's how to write flawless and elegant SQL queries that never, ever, ever could ever possibly go wrong even in the slightest way.
We should all bow to his wisdom.
****ing twit. ---
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Korenti Rels
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Posted - 2010.12.16 22:42:00 -
[44]
Originally by: SkinSin I may have missed this but: 1) In what way were people not treated evenly?
Some people got to remap one week earlier than expected, nothing more nothing less. Others got two extra remaps. I also have unconfirmed voices of edge cases that had three extra remaps.
Originally by: SkinSin 2) In what way was there a lack of communication?
Information CCP made public was such that some players remapped for the first time 2 or three weeks ago expecting either no extra remap or one extra remap. It turns out they would have gotten two extra remaps if they didn't but since they did they only got one. - Firstly, planet VI in FD-MLJ will be nuked from orbit (after all, it is the only way to be sure) and all existing infrastructure will be gone. -- CCP Nimbus |
KaarBaak
Minmatar Seatec Astronomy
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Posted - 2010.12.16 22:52:00 -
[45]
Originally by: Grez OP obviously works on one of the largest databases known to the gaming world and so know's how to write flawless and elegant SQL queries that never, ever, ever could ever possibly go wrong even in the slightest way.
We should all bow to his wisdom.
****ing twit.
I generally concur with this sentiment; However I'm not usually able to express myself as eloquently.
The problem THIS time is that CCP and the CSM were loud and proud of their decision to delay the release of the patch in order that it would be released without bugs.
Had they simply made a one-time announcement that they were delaying release of Incursion...I'd be fine with that. However there are several very long threadnaughts in which they both (CCP and CSM) pat each other on the back about their grand decision to put excellence > timeliness.
IOW, they ****ed themselves by making a big deal about the delay then releasing buggy code.
KB
Circumstances rule men; men do not rule circumstances. --Herodotus, Histories
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Pesets
The Hunt Club
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Posted - 2010.12.16 23:07:00 -
[46]
Well, if you're working on one of the largest databases in the gaming world, and know that you CAN'T possibly expect yourself to write code/queries that can't possibly go wrong, then maybe you shouldn't try to cram in some last-minute changes without proper testing. And if you do get it wrong anyways, the proper course of action is to think of a way to fix it, rather than hoping that most people won't realize they've been screwed over and telling others "it's not so bad, live with it".
Also, the problem wasn't with an SQL query per se. From the technical standpoint, it worked "as intended". The problem was that the person who made the decision to do this either did not fully understand how "free remaps" work, or didn't properly think through the in-game implications of what was "intended".
Also, this SHOULD be fixed, because it essentially allows some random players train more efficiently than others, for no good reason at all. And if you think "it doesn't make that much difference", then maybe they should remove attributes and implants as well, and just let everyone train at maximum speed at all times. It makes about as much difference after all.
Also, the way to fix it would be to simply allow the remaps to stack, at least for the next year. I.e. if you somehow get an extra remap before the remap timer expires, then it doesn't reset the timer and you get another remap when the timer does run out. From what i understand, the timer is still ticking, it just doesn't trigger anything. If not they should, hopefully, have pre-patch database backups.
Also, i hope to god they don't actually patch by manually applying SQL queries to the live database. And for your sake, i hope you don't either.
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Rashmika Clavain
Gallente
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Posted - 2010.12.16 23:18:00 -
[47]
Mistakes happen. Is that a bad thing? No. It is how you deal with the mistake that defines you.
CCP resolved the issue at the very next downtime.
/movealong
[html]http://skilltrainingcomplete.com/users/flair/1417.html[/html] |
Miagi Sans
Amarr PURgE-Corp PURgE Alliance
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Posted - 2010.12.16 23:29:00 -
[48]
HTFU, seriously.
If you are going to make a long winded tirade on nonsensical gibberish over something you are getting for FREE in an mmo where tings never go 100% correct coding wise, please, just quit now and save us all from your terrible posting.
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Zief
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Posted - 2010.12.16 23:32:00 -
[49]
Edited by: Zief on 16/12/2010 23:35:04 CCP!!! HOW DARE YOU!!!!!
All I get is a new ship, new module, 2 million skill points to spend as I wish and my training times sped up by about 10%???
WHAT THE ****!!!! I'M SO RAGING MAD RIGHT NOW!!!! YEEEAAARRRGGHHH!!!!!! /EMORAGEQUIT!!!!!!!
On a serious note I don't understand the post here. You just got a free expansion to the best MMORPG in the world, free stuff, more skill points, and you are complaining about having to wait for your remap??
Maybe I'm not understanding something here, that happens sometimes....
Sometimes whiney people just ***** too much though.. wonder which is happening here?
Edit: if you want ****ty customer service go buy WoW and play that for ten seconds. I don't think you know just how good you have it.
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Herping yourDerp
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Posted - 2010.12.16 23:37:00 -
[50]
Originally by: Diomedes Calypso Pointless Q_Q's
you stuff, sell it, your isk send to me.
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Pesets
The Hunt Club
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Posted - 2010.12.16 23:41:00 -
[51]
Edited by: Pesets on 16/12/2010 23:41:58
Originally by: Rashmika Clavain Mistakes happen. Is that a bad thing? No. It is how you deal with the mistake that defines you.
CCP resolved the issue at the very next downtime.
/movealong
They resolved the issue that some players didn't get the "free remap". But by giving out "free remaps" they introduced another issue. If you had at least one remap available, you got an extra remap, and all if fine and dandy. But if you had no remaps and are waiting for the timer to expire, they gave you one remap that will reset the timer if you use it, and prevent you from getting a new remap when you were supposed to.
I.e. in the most extreme case, someone whose timer expired one second before the patch will have two remaps after the patch (one from the timer expiration and one from the patch bonus), but someone whose timer was set to expire one second after the patch will have just one remap (because the bonus remap from the patch will block the new remap they were supposed to get on timer expiration).
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Diomedes Calypso
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Posted - 2010.12.17 00:03:00 -
[52]
What set me off was the excuse more than the result ... and what I regarded as deliberate double speak . I explained myself.. Yes I like to use lots of words and I like to read lots of words too .
Originally by: Enuen Ravenseye
Sorry, but I really cannot be bothered to give rat's ass about your perception of the situation, as I do not share it.
Basic info regarding corporations (since you seem to be unaware): they do NOT exist to make you - a non-shareholder - happy in any way. Period. If you cannot understand econ 101, please move to North Korea and enjoy your communism.
You must shop at different places than I do... Nordtroms, Home Depot (high quality or crappy quality) will both let you return items that you took home, tried out but werenÆt satisfied with very few if any questions.
A restaurant that forgets an order will make an "accommodation" in terms of a free desert or something...but i'm not asking for anything like that at all and don't think its necesarry... even a "we blew it" is something.
Far from being a "communist" idea, capitalism and markets widen consumer choice, lower prices, better products, and more courteuos treatment of consumers.
Its only at a government office that I get "sorry charlie, but thats the rules" ... any auto-repair shop etc will use logic and make little efforts that don't cost them hardly any money to make you happier.
If i get a bank or credit card late fee, I call them and they reverse it when they see that i've paid on for the last 20 months.. they give the benefit of the doubt and a company that wouldn't give me the benefit of the doubt with a common sense approach to a situation isn't living up to todays business culture.
yeah.. its just game.
Do I really care about the sp ? Not really.
Is it the matter of ôfairnessö that rubs me wrong. Not really if a plausible reasoning for the expediency made sense and the alternatives would have been a PITA . Is it a matter of not taking a higher road when its available to you easily ..absolutely . (see a post a page ago if you care but as you said you don't and I' don't think that you need to have the same opinion as I do anyway)
Am I going to take a BS response from someone without calling them on it in public ? Nope. They're going to know that they're dishing out BS, As Gomer Pyle used to say ôShame , shame , shameö ; )
(you guys are of the opinion that i'm dishing BS.. I've read and considered your comments... the parts about me getting a bit too worked up might be pretty true... but i 've gone back and read what I said.. and while some words could have been chosen differently I'm still on with the gyst of the points... )
I'm not going to rage quit.
I like the game and all the hard work and creativity put in.
I think its great... its a solidly good expansion.
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Diomedes Calypso
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Posted - 2010.12.17 00:18:00 -
[53]
Originally by: Grez OP obviously works on one of the largest databases known to the gaming world and so know's how to write flawless and elegant SQL queries that never, ever, ever could ever possibly go wrong even in the slightest way.
We should all bow to his wisdom.
****ing twit.
Hey if they said.. "our database guys said it was a potential can of worms, and because of that we decided to do it this way. It will do some of you more good than others but we know it will help some... use if for what its worth"
I'm far more cool with that
Making up some rationale to fit what the IT department was more comfortable with and dishing it out as if it was the way you think was right all along is a different thing.
HTFU? sure I'm HTFU
QQ ing ? nope.. don't realy care
Diatribe ? I think I was making coherent points with varrying nuances in content and musing about potential motivations......
Getting caught up on some "holy crusade" and not looking at the big picture... perhaps guilty. but im not complaining about the big picutre.
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offcopy
Caldari OffBeat Creations
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Posted - 2010.12.17 00:32:00 -
[54]
ok i have read a few of these posts befor my head started to fill with the stfu or guys just htfu.
from what i can tell talking some devs on sisi on this firer hot topic, is that we where only going to get the ship. then comes along ccp zulu right guys i have reviewed the case for removing learning skills and the players are right in the fact it is holding back people from staying. so remove them give them the sp to use as they see fit and bump there attributes.
player get the news on the learning skill removal some are happy others aren't, some of the players want to remap as there attributes points are changing
ccp no free remap time rest. players are but.. ccp ui desinger guys look new shinny ui for the remap lets give them a timer reset. other ccp dev fine players \o/ remap players to the forum it's only a rest on the time its not free.
we should just be greatful they gave us the chance to change our attributes now.
Quote: (how hard is it to write a database alteration line that set a number to increment at a time in the next year based upon an existing date in the database)
if you can do it and not **** it up then apply to ccp
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DjLowballer
Amarr Firebird Squadron
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Posted - 2010.12.17 00:38:00 -
[55]
I don't understand how this issue makes CCP "second rate". They listened to the customers and removed a mechanic which was tedious to the game and offered a fair reimbursement plan for those affected. They also gave an additional remap for everybody to have a fresh start if they chose. When there was an issue with the release they immediately posted on the forums and informed us. Since the issue did not affect everybody and was not a "game breaker" they remedied it and solved the problem during the next downtime. What is the issue?
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Judas Scammer
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Posted - 2010.12.17 00:52:00 -
[56]
Can someone explain what is all this ruckus about?
For some reason I find the OP very hard to understand...
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Chaos Incarnate
Faceless Logistics
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Posted - 2010.12.17 01:26:00 -
[57]
Edited by: Chaos Incarnate on 17/12/2010 01:26:59
Originally by: Judas Scammer Can someone explain what is all this ruckus about?
For some reason I find the OP very hard to understand...
CCP handed out remaps as a surprise gift for incursion 1.0.1
while some people got two remaps (including people who've never remapped, who now have 3 total), some others just got one. Being as any remaps granted reset your remap timer, people who never remapped now have lots of remaps free, whereas some people who have remapped often don't get anything but their remap timer moved ahead by a few months. Therefore, whining, blubbering, and general qq has resulted because things are unfair in internet spaceshipland because of a christmas gift _____________________ Look down. Back up. Where are you? You're on a forum, with the alt your alt could post like. |
Choujinburi
Gallente Institute for Technology Advancement
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Posted - 2010.12.17 01:50:00 -
[58]
Here is a tip: If you don't like a company, don't subscribe to their service.
If you continue to subscribe to something you obviously hate so much, then you only have yourself to blame.
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Pesets
The Hunt Club
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Posted - 2010.12.17 02:15:00 -
[59]
And if i think most people in the company are doing a great job, and the game for the most part is awesome, but some of the decisions they make are silly beyond excuse... i'm supposed to unsubscribe for one month per year or something? Or maybe, you know, provide feedback so that the game could, you know, improve over time?
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Korenti Rels
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Posted - 2010.12.17 03:31:00 -
[60]
Originally by: Rashmika Clavain Mistakes happen. Is that a bad thing? No. It is how you deal with the mistake that defines you.
CCP resolved the issue at the very next downtime.
/movealong
CCP fixed nothing. They made things even more messed up.
The first time they: - gave nothing to somebody - gave a better nothing (short cooldown reset) to somebody else - gave one remap to somebody else - gave two remaps to old chars that never remapped
People noted they had no remap while friends did. So they announced the intention was to give one remap to everybody and those who got no remap would get it the next day, sorry for the error. And by the way if you are on a short cooldown the better nothing is all you'll get.
People noted old chars that never remapped got two remaps. They confirmed that two extra remaps to old chars that never remapped was intended.
Next day they try again and: - some of those who got nothing ... got the better nothing - some others of those who got nothing got a remap - some of those who got a cooldown reset, got a second remap too - some of those who got a remap, got a second remap - some that had a remap on the first round and used it, got it again - some that had a remap on the first round and used it, got two more - others just got whatever they had the first time.
Granted I only have a dozen characters and they all fit into only three of those possible outcomes. Therefore all the other cases are "unconfirmed". But people have been reporting them either on skype, in ingame chat or on these forums, and I have no reason to believe those reports to be wrong.
Therefore mileage varies from just being able to remap a few days earlier to getting three extra remaps.
- Firstly, planet VI in FD-MLJ will be nuked from orbit (after all, it is the only way to be sure) and all existing infrastructure will be gone. -- CCP Nimbus |
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