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William Cooly
Sol Enterprises
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Posted - 2010.12.18 01:45:00 -
[31]
Snipe.
Dreads are terrible slomoboats that can only effectively do what they're meant to by risking themselves to supercarrier WTFBBQ'ing. -
I troll stupid people. |
Doddy
Burning Vendetta
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Posted - 2010.12.18 02:04:00 -
[32]
Want to see dread fleets again? Remove the now totally pointless ewar invulnerability of supercaps and reduce seige cycle time to 5 mins.
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Piyale Pasa
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Posted - 2010.12.18 02:23:00 -
[33]
Super carriers with their fighter bombers are like the titan DD from the old which went through a cyno. There needs to be risk involved.
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Reaver Glitterstim
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Posted - 2010.12.18 02:24:00 -
[34]
To the OP: Dreadnoughts are the cheapest and most effective way (money-wise) to take out installations, or are you denying that?
If the price tag is too high, I have a solution for you: don't take out installations. Nobody else will cry over it.
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Soi Mala
Whacky Waving Inflatable Flailing Arm Tubemen
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Posted - 2010.12.18 12:26:00 -
[35]
Originally by: Reaver Glitterstim To the OP: Dreadnoughts are the cheapest and most effective way (money-wise) to take out installations, or are you denying that?
Average fleet fits with level 5 skills -
1 dread - 1.5bil with fit - 6800 dps - has to sit still and die for 10minutes while tanking 2900 dps
10 Geddons - less than 1.5bil - 9300 dps - doesn't have to sit and die - remote reps add up to 2300 dps tanked
So yes, I AM denying that.
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Haniblecter Teg
F.R.E.E. Explorer The Initiative.
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Posted - 2010.12.18 16:55:00 -
[36]
Originally by: Soi Mala
Originally by: Reaver Glitterstim To the OP: Dreadnoughts are the cheapest and most effective way (money-wise) to take out installations, or are you denying that?
Average fleet fits with level 5 skills -
1 dread - 1.5bil with fit - 6800 dps - has to sit still and die for 10minutes while tanking 2900 dps
10 Geddons - less than 1.5bil - 9300 dps - doesn't have to sit and die - remote reps add up to 2300 dps tanked
So yes, I AM denying that.
Ok, first off, ur dread damage looks like its short range turrets with short range ammo, not stnd fit. 930 dps per bs fleet bs? Same thing as with dreads.
That aside, you need lke 10 dreads and support to take down anything within a decent time frame. So 100 support? That's a lot of manpower stuck doing drudgery. Dreads have a place.
In addition, 2 dreads can equal or excede the dps one SC at a cost that is 1/5 to 1/7 the cost of an SC. This isnt mentionng the obvious logistical benefits caps have over SCs.
That said they need a boost. The smartie idea was nice, but SC FBs torps don't work like missiles anymore. Possibly increasing damage, or tank, or range of shrt range turrets/torps, most definitely reduce seige cycle to 5min.
Something.
Anything! ----------------- Friends Forever |
Obsidian Hawk
RONA Legion
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Posted - 2010.12.18 16:58:00 -
[37]
Why not just make dread siege cycle create a spatial field that prohibits fighter bombers from attacking them. or maybe does something that reduces fighter bomber damage by *rolls dice* 35%?
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Valeo Galaem
New Eden Advanced Reconnaissance Unit Sentient World Observation and Response Directive
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Posted - 2010.12.18 17:04:00 -
[38]
What about a supercap upkeep?
If you can't keep a supercarrier or titan supplied it looses part or all of its bonuses. Dreads and carriers could be subject to this but to a lesser extent.
This would make hitting an enemy's supercap fleet possible by attrition. The mechanics surrounding supply gathering and logistics would have to be designed to make this a reasonable goal.
Thar be Pirates
You are not authorised to hack into CONCORD's mainframe Your Wallet has been emptied!
CONCORD Encryption Methods |
Ohajus Vartedneetstiincs
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Posted - 2010.12.18 17:25:00 -
[39]
Dreads are still fun to fly, just very vulnerable DPS wise to SC's + Titan's which is no different to a cruiser being vulnerable to a BS. Usual 0.0 cap fleet see's 150+ where I come from so even if you do get a bloblagfight it's the same as a sub cap fight i.e. if your primaried your dead anyway.
Personally i'd rather lose 15 dreadnoughts in fights than lose 1 supercarrier. I don't have a SC anymore as I didn't like my main being stuck in a ship that really isn't that much fun to fly.
Dreadnoughts, and to a certain extent Carriers, could do with at least 25% more HP to stop the instapopping from DD's, give them perma-seige damage output without the seige module stationary penalty, give them a role bonus to repair amount of the capital repair modules and then we'd be getting somewhere toward fixed. Dreads/Carriers should not still be dying to 15 Hacs and a bloody Dramiel but they are.
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Destination SkillQueue
Are We There Yet
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Posted - 2010.12.18 17:27:00 -
[40]
Originally by: Valeo Galaem What about a supercap upkeep?
If you can't keep a supercarrier or titan supplied it looses part or all of its bonuses. Dreads and carriers could be subject to this but to a lesser extent.
This would make hitting an enemy's supercap fleet possible by attrition. The mechanics surrounding supply gathering and logistics would have to be designed to make this a reasonable goal.
Sounds like a lot of boring busywork for no practical benefit. The no practical benefit comes from the fact that every half competent large entity has to have a good logistic wing anyway. In practice you will hardly ever going to end up in a situation where the loss of a supercap was caused by the lack of upkeep resources. It is a much better solution to come up with counters to such blobs, by buffing an existing ship or introducing a new ship that is super effective against supercaps.
You also need to accept that some ship has to be at the top and what ever that ship happens to be, it will be flown by everyone who can possiby get their hands on it. This is why it is much better to have some kind of clear weakness in all ship roles. That way the other side can always counter them by adjusting fleet composition to match the opponents weak points, no single ship type is good in every fight and you don't have to keep adding pointless maintenance busywork to the ship type that happens to be FOTM at the time.
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Sturmwolke
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Posted - 2010.12.18 17:48:00 -
[41]
Add a role bonus to dreads that makes them especially effective against supercaps (titans/supercarriers). Turn them into natural predators for (unescorted) supercaps.
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Rosalina Sarinna
Royal Guardsmen
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Posted - 2010.12.18 18:53:00 -
[42]
Originally by: Ohajus Vartedneetstiincs Dreads are still fun to fly, just very vulnerable DPS wise to SC's + Titan's which is no different to a cruiser being vulnerable to a BS. Usual 0.0 cap fleet see's 150+ where I come from so even if you do get a bloblagfight it's the same as a sub cap fight i.e. if your primaried your dead anyway.
Personally i'd rather lose 15 dreadnoughts in fights than lose 1 supercarrier. I don't have a SC anymore as I didn't like my main being stuck in a ship that really isn't that much fun to fly.
Dreadnoughts, and to a certain extent Carriers, could do with at least 25% more HP to stop the instapopping from DD's, give them perma-seige damage output without the seige module stationary penalty, give them a role bonus to repair amount of the capital repair modules and then we'd be getting somewhere toward fixed. Dreads/Carriers should not still be dying to 15 Hacs and a bloody Dramiel but they are.
From my limited exposure to Dreds and Carriers (SiSi), I am not at all impressed at the susceptability of the vessels. As such, I must agree with this post, and suggest this alone would go some way to helping the cause of the Dreds.
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Juliette DuBois
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Posted - 2010.12.18 19:09:00 -
[43]
Originally by: Sturmwolke Add a role bonus to dreads that makes them especially effective against supercaps (titans/supercarriers). Turn them into natural predators for (unescorted) supercaps.
That would require them to have large damage bonus against such vessels AND ability to tackle them while in siege. Part of supercapital strength is the ability to disengage.
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Shino Tu
Caldari
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Posted - 2010.12.18 19:22:00 -
[44]
I hear PI / Dust will have some use for them....
"Unhappy people expect the world to adapt to them and happy people adapt to the world." |
Pesets
The Hunt Club
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Posted - 2010.12.18 19:53:00 -
[45]
Originally by: Ohajus Vartedneetstiincs Dreads are still fun to fly, just very vulnerable DPS wise to SC's + Titan's which is no different to a cruiser being vulnerable to a BS.
It's different in that cruisers can kinda sorta speedtank and sig-tank battleship dps. Dreads, not so much, especially not in siege.
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Sturmwolke
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Posted - 2010.12.18 20:35:00 -
[46]
Originally by: Juliette DuBois
Originally by: Sturmwolke Add a role bonus to dreads that makes them especially effective against supercaps (titans/supercarriers). Turn them into natural predators for (unescorted) supercaps.
That would require them to have large damage bonus against such vessels AND ability to tackle them while in siege. Part of supercapital strength is the ability to disengage.
There isn't really a problem with the difficulty in pinning down the supercaps, per se. Imo, the greater issue is a std cap fleet bringing enough dps to kill a supercap in a timely manner before it kills you or it gets on the batphone for a rescue fleet.
The second part of the equation to changing dreads to supercaps natural predator is to dispense the siege mode for this role bonus, and apply it directly as per normal ship-to-ship combat. Therefore, the dread pilots will have to make a choice - either fit for anti-supercap or fit to bust structures (and anything else that moves).
Now, with dreads having the ability to hurt a supercap badly, the decision to field a supercap will no longer be a simple equation. Hopefully, that will curtail its use somewhat. |
Tidanis
Did I just do that Test Alliance Please Ignore
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Posted - 2010.12.19 07:51:00 -
[47]
Give dreads two more high slots and add a smartbomb radius bonus so they can dual smart bomb fighters/fighter bombers that attack them. -------------------------------------------- Currently Training: Avoiding Homework, Level 4
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