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Soi Mala
Whacky Waving Inflatable Flailing Arm Tubemen
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Posted - 2010.12.17 17:50:00 -
[1]
Anyone still use them?
@CCP: Didn't you see this coming? Are you happy with the way they are? Any plans to change them into something useful?
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Spurty
Caldari D00M. Northern Coalition.
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Posted - 2010.12.17 17:54:00 -
[2]
make em cost 33% the going rate and I'll own one, however .. you can count the uses for them on one finger.
With that price tag, see no use for any individual to own one
Hoppit!
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Miriam Letisse
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Posted - 2010.12.17 18:20:00 -
[3]
Originally by: Spurty
With that price tag, see no use for any individual to own one
I know one veldspar addicted Swede who would like a word with you.
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Scatim Helicon
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
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Posted - 2010.12.17 18:25:00 -
[4]
They have their uses, but currently only in an environment where the side deploying them has already established supercap superiority.
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Roxanna Kell
V.O.I.D.
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Posted - 2010.12.17 18:39:00 -
[5]
Originally by: Scatim Helicon They have their uses, but currently only in an environment where the side deploying them has already established supercap superiority.
you have drake superiority.
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Soi Mala
Whacky Waving Inflatable Flailing Arm Tubemen
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Posted - 2010.12.17 19:08:00 -
[6]
Originally by: Scatim Helicon They have their uses, but currently only in an environment where the side deploying them has already established supercap superiority.
In which case, the supercaps are used.
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Nicolo da'Vicenza
Amarr Dissonance Corp BLACK-MARK
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Posted - 2010.12.17 19:41:00 -
[7]
According to the QEN they're more used now then ever. |
Kalle Demos
Amarr Hysteria Nexus
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Posted - 2010.12.17 19:51:00 -
[8]
In WHs they are still used but as for 0.0, you either get 'encouraged' to train for a carrier or make good use of the x-large weapon skills by training for a titan.
Create a new ship that can jam SUPERCAPS ONLY and dreads will become useful again
Originally by: Kool StoryBro <---
Originally by: CCP Spitfire Spam post removed.
Random forum moments ftw |
Miriam Letisse
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Posted - 2010.12.17 19:58:00 -
[9]
Probably a stupid idea but, why not just move fighter bombers over to Dreadnoughts and leave fighters with Carriers/Super carriers?
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Metamoran
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Posted - 2010.12.17 20:11:00 -
[10]
Make Dreads cost 33% less and let them in Hi-Sec for Hulkageddon.
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Dhaul
Agent-Orange Nabaal Syndicate
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Posted - 2010.12.17 20:13:00 -
[11]
I see them used more than any other capital ship to be honest
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Hesperius
Parsec Flux War.Pigs.
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Posted - 2010.12.17 20:14:00 -
[12]
There are a number of things wrong with dreads in the current landscape and a number of things you can do to change them. Dreads were completely surrounded and PWNED by CCP in Dominion, check it out:
- Sov war shifted form pos spamming. - Titans shifted from anti-blob to one shot dread poppers - Introduced Fighter Bombers that eat dreads for breakfast - Nerfed the Moros drone damage.
Dreads and carriers are pawns. The only reason anyone should ever field a cap fleet without super capitals in front of it is if you are in a wormhole.
I like the way things are in this landscape. To make dreads useful again, the change I would like to see is a space expansion that could exist without super capitals (NPC empire only accessible through w-space).
I hope this thread gets some developer attention.
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Opertone
Caldari Deep Core Mining Inc.
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Posted - 2010.12.17 20:22:00 -
[13]
Dread guristas DROP crap for loot... I don't use it much... no
oh... those dreads
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Jovialmadness
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Posted - 2010.12.17 20:26:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Soi Mala Anyone still use them?
@CCP: Didn't you see this coming? Are you happy with the way they are? Any plans to change them into something useful?
I sold my dread. Why should i use it when i can do the same in my titan except better and in style?
P.s. Ill be hotdropping alone into pnq to kill noob goons shortly.. |
Berikath
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Posted - 2010.12.17 20:43:00 -
[15]
Edited by: Berikath on 17/12/2010 20:44:40
Originally by: Hesperius I like the way things are in this landscape. To make dreads useful again, the change I would like to see is a space expansion that could exist without super capitals (NPC empire only accessible through w-space).
I hope this thread gets some developer attention.
Well.... apparently Sansha invasions come from WH space, and there are stations (Jove?) there.
I wouldn't bet on it, but I wouldn't put it outside the realm of possibility as the OMGWTFBBQ surprise of the next round of patches (like 6 months I mean, not Jan.)
Jove allow / can't keep / don't care enough to stop pod pilots from hopping into a corner of their space and cleaning up Sansha? That'd be cool. Just imagine- no (accessible) stations with manufacturing facilities, all POS structures have to be moved through a network of ever-changing supply lines...
That would really be pretty sweet. Like wormholes, but without the headache of scanning EVERY time you want to leave system or PVP.
*edit*
Originally by: Jovialmadness I sold my dread. Why should i use it when i can do the same in my titan except better and in style?
'cuz it would take you a month to replace a Dread instead of a year for a Titan?
*** [ SIG] ***
Wish list for PI:
*One-click input routing *Copy product, inputs & outputs in factories *Launchpad upgrades: twice the space, twice the cost, half the hassle! [ /sig ] |
Miriam Letisse
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Posted - 2010.12.17 20:51:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Berikath
'cuz it would take you a month to replace a Dread instead of a year for a Titan?
With the number of Titans rolling off the production line, I doubt that's an issue
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Furb Killer
Gallente
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Posted - 2010.12.17 20:51:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Metamoran Make Dreads cost 33% less and let them in Hi-Sec for Hulkageddon.
While they obviously would be useless for that, the comparison with hulkageddon isnt that far fetched.
Pretty much the only role dreads now have in 0.0 is (besides poor mans structure basher for those who dont have supercap) is suicide ganker. To siege onlining TCUs or SBUs for example while fully expecting to lose them all, but hopefully after the goal is achieved.
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Nicolo da'Vicenza
Amarr Dissonance Corp BLACK-MARK
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Posted - 2010.12.17 21:23:00 -
[18]
Edited by: Nicolo da''Vicenza on 17/12/2010 21:23:56
Originally by: Dhaul I see them used more than any other capital ship to be honest
Dreadnoughts are the second-fastest growing ship in use per capita in EVE according to the QEN 2010.
Just something to put all these "dreads are obsolete" posts in perspective. |
Ick Ickagami
Amarr Ministry of War
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Posted - 2010.12.17 21:30:00 -
[19]
Dreads are bad, mmm'kay?
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Berikath
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Posted - 2010.12.17 21:34:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Miriam Letisse
Originally by: Berikath
'cuz it would take you a month to replace a Dread instead of a year for a Titan?
With the number of Titans rolling off the production line, I doubt that's an issue
Perhaps I should have been more specific.
"Because it would take a month to be able to afford a replacement Dread instead of a year to afford a replacement Titan".
*** [ SIG] ***
Wish list for PI:
*One-click input routing *Copy product, inputs & outputs in factories *Launchpad upgrades: twice the space, twice the cost, half the hassle! [ /sig ] |
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Syn Callibri
Minmatar 21st Eridani Lighthorse Broken Chains Alliance
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Posted - 2010.12.17 21:39:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Ick Ickagami
Dreads are bad, mmm'kay?
Wouldn't suprise me to see a few fighters fly out of that Dred...or is it fighting flies?
Commander Tac-Ops |
FlameGlow
Rebellion Alliance
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Posted - 2010.12.17 21:48:00 -
[22]
Dreads need only one thing - a nerf to supercarriers But there is a problem, you sit there in siege, pinned to the place and with no remote assistance allowed when supercaps can basically one-shot you and you won't be able to do anything. No defence vs doomsday is fine, titan using it also gets stuck in system and risks something. But supercarrier? It doesn't risk anything and can pull in fighter-bombers and jump out.
Dreads must get some defence against FBs, maybe something like extra highslot and smartbombs having 4 times quicker cycle in siege and double range to reach FBs in orbit. Quicker cycle and not increased damage to allow withdrawing fighters before they die and to increase drain on dread's capacitor, probably increase in cap consumption is also required to discourage permarunning it(with obvious drawbacks of not being able to tank/shoot as well or jump out right after siege)
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Anubis Xian
Reavers
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Posted - 2010.12.17 21:52:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Nicolo da'Vicenza Edited by: Nicolo da''Vicenza on 17/12/2010 21:23:56
Originally by: Dhaul I see them used more than any other capital ship to be honest
Dreadnoughts are the second-fastest growing ship in use per capita in EVE according to the QEN 2010.
Just something to put all these "dreads are obsolete" posts in perspective.
The obvious question being... why?
Originally by: CCP Oveur The client handles no logic, it is simply a dumb terminal.
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gfldex
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Posted - 2010.12.17 22:06:00 -
[24]
Dreads got 2 problems. First, when you drop in siege, well you can't really do that. So you wait until you slow down, what can take you 10 minutes, then you drop into siege and then you still wont hit those SC because your tracking ain't sufficient. The siege nerf that increased mass on sieged dreads was ment to be a ballance change that should help dreads to hit their targets. Any experienced dread pilot could have told CCP. Sadly they forgot to ask.
Secondly, 100 dreads should be able to kill a SC with 2 volleys. In fight where you bring dreads and SC the node can't deliver. A SC doesn't really care about range either. Most dreads are not so hot above 150km.
If CCP is able to provide proper performance in fleet battles (Supreme Commander shows that it can be done) the game could move in favour of Dreads again. Right now, the only advantage dreads have is the ability to dock.
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Kierlana Vosk
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Posted - 2010.12.17 23:32:00 -
[25]
Originally by: gfldex If CCP is able to provide proper performance in fleet battles (Supreme Commander shows that it can be done)
That has no relevance at all on Eve performance...
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Simeon Tor
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Posted - 2010.12.17 23:33:00 -
[26]
Edited by: Simeon Tor on 17/12/2010 23:36:52 Maybe this will cheer you up..
P.S.
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Nicolo da'Vicenza
Amarr Divine Power. Wildly Inappropriate.
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Posted - 2010.12.17 23:48:00 -
[27]
Originally by: Anubis Xian
Originally by: Nicolo da'Vicenza Edited by: Nicolo da''Vicenza on 17/12/2010 21:23:56
Originally by: Dhaul I see them used more than any other capital ship to be honest
Dreadnoughts are the second-fastest growing ship in use per capita in EVE according to the QEN 2010.
Just something to put all these "dreads are obsolete" posts in perspective.
The obvious question being... why?
5-10 dreads to bash a structure is often more efficient then 1 supercap. |
Aessoroz
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Posted - 2010.12.18 00:16:00 -
[28]
Originally by: gfldex
Secondly, 100 dreads should be able to kill a SC with 2 volleys. In fight where you bring dreads and SC the node can't deliver. A SC doesn't really care about range either. Most dreads are not so hot above 150km.
You forget that each SC has a 2000% bonus to node lag per deployed fighter bomber.
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Gil Danastre
Amarr 5TH Combat Training Squadron
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Posted - 2010.12.18 01:27:00 -
[29]
Originally by: Nicolo da'Vicenza Edited by: Nicolo da''Vicenza on 17/12/2010 21:23:56
Originally by: Dhaul I see them used more than any other capital ship to be honest
Dreadnoughts are the second-fastest growing ship in use per capita in EVE according to the QEN 2010.
Just something to put all these "dreads are obsolete" posts in perspective.
There's also double the number of Supercarriers in use compared to dreads. Hell, there's more jump freighters. At the rate these numbers are going, we're likely to see more titans in use than dreads in the forseeable future.
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MarcusFenix2
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Posted - 2010.12.18 01:41:00 -
[30]
Of course ppl use dreads! A ship with the dps of a bunch of battleships and more is worth the isk, though dreads are very tactical. But usually if you have alot more dreads than carriers in a fleet your going to loose.
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William Cooly
Sol Enterprises
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Posted - 2010.12.18 01:45:00 -
[31]
Snipe.
Dreads are terrible slomoboats that can only effectively do what they're meant to by risking themselves to supercarrier WTFBBQ'ing. -
I troll stupid people. |
Doddy
Burning Vendetta
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Posted - 2010.12.18 02:04:00 -
[32]
Want to see dread fleets again? Remove the now totally pointless ewar invulnerability of supercaps and reduce seige cycle time to 5 mins.
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Piyale Pasa
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Posted - 2010.12.18 02:23:00 -
[33]
Super carriers with their fighter bombers are like the titan DD from the old which went through a cyno. There needs to be risk involved.
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Reaver Glitterstim
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Posted - 2010.12.18 02:24:00 -
[34]
To the OP: Dreadnoughts are the cheapest and most effective way (money-wise) to take out installations, or are you denying that?
If the price tag is too high, I have a solution for you: don't take out installations. Nobody else will cry over it.
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Soi Mala
Whacky Waving Inflatable Flailing Arm Tubemen
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Posted - 2010.12.18 12:26:00 -
[35]
Originally by: Reaver Glitterstim To the OP: Dreadnoughts are the cheapest and most effective way (money-wise) to take out installations, or are you denying that?
Average fleet fits with level 5 skills -
1 dread - 1.5bil with fit - 6800 dps - has to sit still and die for 10minutes while tanking 2900 dps
10 Geddons - less than 1.5bil - 9300 dps - doesn't have to sit and die - remote reps add up to 2300 dps tanked
So yes, I AM denying that.
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Haniblecter Teg
F.R.E.E. Explorer The Initiative.
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Posted - 2010.12.18 16:55:00 -
[36]
Originally by: Soi Mala
Originally by: Reaver Glitterstim To the OP: Dreadnoughts are the cheapest and most effective way (money-wise) to take out installations, or are you denying that?
Average fleet fits with level 5 skills -
1 dread - 1.5bil with fit - 6800 dps - has to sit still and die for 10minutes while tanking 2900 dps
10 Geddons - less than 1.5bil - 9300 dps - doesn't have to sit and die - remote reps add up to 2300 dps tanked
So yes, I AM denying that.
Ok, first off, ur dread damage looks like its short range turrets with short range ammo, not stnd fit. 930 dps per bs fleet bs? Same thing as with dreads.
That aside, you need lke 10 dreads and support to take down anything within a decent time frame. So 100 support? That's a lot of manpower stuck doing drudgery. Dreads have a place.
In addition, 2 dreads can equal or excede the dps one SC at a cost that is 1/5 to 1/7 the cost of an SC. This isnt mentionng the obvious logistical benefits caps have over SCs.
That said they need a boost. The smartie idea was nice, but SC FBs torps don't work like missiles anymore. Possibly increasing damage, or tank, or range of shrt range turrets/torps, most definitely reduce seige cycle to 5min.
Something.
Anything! ----------------- Friends Forever |
Obsidian Hawk
RONA Legion
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Posted - 2010.12.18 16:58:00 -
[37]
Why not just make dread siege cycle create a spatial field that prohibits fighter bombers from attacking them. or maybe does something that reduces fighter bomber damage by *rolls dice* 35%?
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Valeo Galaem
New Eden Advanced Reconnaissance Unit Sentient World Observation and Response Directive
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Posted - 2010.12.18 17:04:00 -
[38]
What about a supercap upkeep?
If you can't keep a supercarrier or titan supplied it looses part or all of its bonuses. Dreads and carriers could be subject to this but to a lesser extent.
This would make hitting an enemy's supercap fleet possible by attrition. The mechanics surrounding supply gathering and logistics would have to be designed to make this a reasonable goal.
Thar be Pirates
You are not authorised to hack into CONCORD's mainframe Your Wallet has been emptied!
CONCORD Encryption Methods |
Ohajus Vartedneetstiincs
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Posted - 2010.12.18 17:25:00 -
[39]
Dreads are still fun to fly, just very vulnerable DPS wise to SC's + Titan's which is no different to a cruiser being vulnerable to a BS. Usual 0.0 cap fleet see's 150+ where I come from so even if you do get a bloblagfight it's the same as a sub cap fight i.e. if your primaried your dead anyway.
Personally i'd rather lose 15 dreadnoughts in fights than lose 1 supercarrier. I don't have a SC anymore as I didn't like my main being stuck in a ship that really isn't that much fun to fly.
Dreadnoughts, and to a certain extent Carriers, could do with at least 25% more HP to stop the instapopping from DD's, give them perma-seige damage output without the seige module stationary penalty, give them a role bonus to repair amount of the capital repair modules and then we'd be getting somewhere toward fixed. Dreads/Carriers should not still be dying to 15 Hacs and a bloody Dramiel but they are.
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Destination SkillQueue
Are We There Yet
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Posted - 2010.12.18 17:27:00 -
[40]
Originally by: Valeo Galaem What about a supercap upkeep?
If you can't keep a supercarrier or titan supplied it looses part or all of its bonuses. Dreads and carriers could be subject to this but to a lesser extent.
This would make hitting an enemy's supercap fleet possible by attrition. The mechanics surrounding supply gathering and logistics would have to be designed to make this a reasonable goal.
Sounds like a lot of boring busywork for no practical benefit. The no practical benefit comes from the fact that every half competent large entity has to have a good logistic wing anyway. In practice you will hardly ever going to end up in a situation where the loss of a supercap was caused by the lack of upkeep resources. It is a much better solution to come up with counters to such blobs, by buffing an existing ship or introducing a new ship that is super effective against supercaps.
You also need to accept that some ship has to be at the top and what ever that ship happens to be, it will be flown by everyone who can possiby get their hands on it. This is why it is much better to have some kind of clear weakness in all ship roles. That way the other side can always counter them by adjusting fleet composition to match the opponents weak points, no single ship type is good in every fight and you don't have to keep adding pointless maintenance busywork to the ship type that happens to be FOTM at the time.
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Sturmwolke
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Posted - 2010.12.18 17:48:00 -
[41]
Add a role bonus to dreads that makes them especially effective against supercaps (titans/supercarriers). Turn them into natural predators for (unescorted) supercaps.
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Rosalina Sarinna
Royal Guardsmen
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Posted - 2010.12.18 18:53:00 -
[42]
Originally by: Ohajus Vartedneetstiincs Dreads are still fun to fly, just very vulnerable DPS wise to SC's + Titan's which is no different to a cruiser being vulnerable to a BS. Usual 0.0 cap fleet see's 150+ where I come from so even if you do get a bloblagfight it's the same as a sub cap fight i.e. if your primaried your dead anyway.
Personally i'd rather lose 15 dreadnoughts in fights than lose 1 supercarrier. I don't have a SC anymore as I didn't like my main being stuck in a ship that really isn't that much fun to fly.
Dreadnoughts, and to a certain extent Carriers, could do with at least 25% more HP to stop the instapopping from DD's, give them perma-seige damage output without the seige module stationary penalty, give them a role bonus to repair amount of the capital repair modules and then we'd be getting somewhere toward fixed. Dreads/Carriers should not still be dying to 15 Hacs and a bloody Dramiel but they are.
From my limited exposure to Dreds and Carriers (SiSi), I am not at all impressed at the susceptability of the vessels. As such, I must agree with this post, and suggest this alone would go some way to helping the cause of the Dreds.
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Juliette DuBois
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Posted - 2010.12.18 19:09:00 -
[43]
Originally by: Sturmwolke Add a role bonus to dreads that makes them especially effective against supercaps (titans/supercarriers). Turn them into natural predators for (unescorted) supercaps.
That would require them to have large damage bonus against such vessels AND ability to tackle them while in siege. Part of supercapital strength is the ability to disengage.
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Shino Tu
Caldari
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Posted - 2010.12.18 19:22:00 -
[44]
I hear PI / Dust will have some use for them....
"Unhappy people expect the world to adapt to them and happy people adapt to the world." |
Pesets
The Hunt Club
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Posted - 2010.12.18 19:53:00 -
[45]
Originally by: Ohajus Vartedneetstiincs Dreads are still fun to fly, just very vulnerable DPS wise to SC's + Titan's which is no different to a cruiser being vulnerable to a BS.
It's different in that cruisers can kinda sorta speedtank and sig-tank battleship dps. Dreads, not so much, especially not in siege.
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Sturmwolke
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Posted - 2010.12.18 20:35:00 -
[46]
Originally by: Juliette DuBois
Originally by: Sturmwolke Add a role bonus to dreads that makes them especially effective against supercaps (titans/supercarriers). Turn them into natural predators for (unescorted) supercaps.
That would require them to have large damage bonus against such vessels AND ability to tackle them while in siege. Part of supercapital strength is the ability to disengage.
There isn't really a problem with the difficulty in pinning down the supercaps, per se. Imo, the greater issue is a std cap fleet bringing enough dps to kill a supercap in a timely manner before it kills you or it gets on the batphone for a rescue fleet.
The second part of the equation to changing dreads to supercaps natural predator is to dispense the siege mode for this role bonus, and apply it directly as per normal ship-to-ship combat. Therefore, the dread pilots will have to make a choice - either fit for anti-supercap or fit to bust structures (and anything else that moves).
Now, with dreads having the ability to hurt a supercap badly, the decision to field a supercap will no longer be a simple equation. Hopefully, that will curtail its use somewhat. |
Tidanis
Did I just do that Test Alliance Please Ignore
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Posted - 2010.12.19 07:51:00 -
[47]
Give dreads two more high slots and add a smartbomb radius bonus so they can dual smart bomb fighters/fighter bombers that attack them. -------------------------------------------- Currently Training: Avoiding Homework, Level 4
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