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Tyykar
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Posted - 2010.12.17 23:38:00 -
[1]
Edited by: Tyykar on 17/12/2010 23:53:28 I swear on all that is Holy that I have spent at least ten real life hours in conversations with people that claimed knowledge of these things and I have yet come to a clear understanding of how it works.
This first started out with me wondering if it was possible to obtain an item without having to fly out to wherever it was to get it. I asked my corp and they said the procurement skill did this. Elated I went on to purchase trade and marketing because they were the prereq's for this skill. Well after finally training the skill I come to find out it does nothing of the sort. There is no way to get something remotely unless you pay someone to fly it to you, anyways now that I had all these skills I wanted to find out if I could put them to use.
Then began my long journey into madness, I made queries in a large miner chat, struck up a conversation with someone that seemed knowledgeable. After hours of circular conversation I came away none the wiser. The next day I tried again within my corp, found one person that seemed to clear up things only to find out he gave me information that was incorrect upon testing. Finally found another person in my corp out of sheer luck and after about 4 hours we finally came upon some small idea of how it worked. Finally after taking my newfound knowledge I have searched these forums and come across guides that describe procurement and something called visibility and now again I realize I do not grasp the concept.
I will just explain how I think this stuff works and I would be ever so grateful if you guys would mind clearing up my confusion.
Ok sell orders, I take an object I own in the station I am currently at and put that object up on the market for anyone within the region to see and purchase.
The Marketing skill allows me to put up on the market for sale things I own at other stations then the one I am physically located at.
Buy orders, allows me to place a "bid" for an item at the station I am currently located at. This bid can be seen from anywhere in the region by other players but can only be fulfilled by flying the item to the station I placed the bid at.
Procurement, allows other players to fulfill the buy order without physically having to deliver the goods based on the level of my procurement skill i.e. The green colored buy orders. Thus if I have level 5 procurement I can place a buy order at my station and anyone within the region can fulfill that buy order from where they are at without having to deliver the item to me but the item will still stay wherever it was when they sold it and i will have to go get it.
This is the latest idea of how this worked, however after reading a thread about procurement and visibility I am again confused. I hear talk of placing a remote buy order but I don't see any options for such a thing. The idea that gives me is that it is like standing at the edge of a lake and dropping a rock at my feet which makes waves through the lake, the rock being the station I am at and the waves being the green listed buy orders. Then with a remote buy order it is like throwing that rock out into the lake and the waves spreading from there? I don't know why I am not grasping this stuff, I have never had any problem with video game rules before this one but most of the time this game feels more like a college class then a video game. I am not complaining I enjoy a challenge, I would just like to be able to understand what i am doing. Thank you again for any clarification of this information.
________________________________________________ A perfect blossom is a rare thing...You could spend your life looking for one, And it would not be a wasted life. Katsumoto -The Last Samurai |
Zero Uptick
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Posted - 2010.12.17 23:54:00 -
[2]
Procurement allows you to place a buy order someplace else.
>You're in Jita. Using Procurement 4 you place a remote buy order 11 jumps away at a station in Hentogaira with a range of "station".
Visibility allows you to increase the range on these remote buy orders.
>You're in Jita. Using Procurement 4 you place a remote buy order 11 jumps away at a station in Hentogaira, with a range of 5 jumps, using Visibility 3.
To place a remote buy order using Procurement you're either floating in space, where it forces you to pick a station for the order, or you're in a station and when you hit "place buy order" you'll click the gold "Location" field and select the other station you want your order to initiate at. To use Visibility you'll simply adjust the range field to a range larger than "station".
Get a map like dotlan or Ombey's maps to help visualize this on a regional basis.
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Tasko Pal
Spallated Garniferous Schist
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Posted - 2010.12.17 23:54:00 -
[3]
Edited by: Tasko Pal on 17/12/2010 23:56:15 Edited by: Tasko Pal on 17/12/2010 23:55:43 You got the marketing skill right. You can also sell from outside a station with marketing.
Procurement allows you to place remote buy orders. You have the option from the advanced buy window (there are two buy windows "simple" and "advanced", the latter has all the doodads like amount to buy, price to buy at, station to buy from, etc) to change station. Rightclick on the station name and the lowest option is "change station". Select that and a window will open up. Type in enough of the beginning of the name to narrow down your selection (for example, "jita 4 - moon 4 - caldari n" is enough to get that station uniquely without the need for selecting a station). You can also buy from outside a station once you have procurement.
Procurement doesn't allow you to place remote buy orders with range. You need visibility for that. That increases the range at which your remote orders can extend.
Finally, if you want to modify the price of a remote order, buy or sell, remotely, you need daytrading.
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Thoraemond
Minmatar Far Ranger
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Posted - 2010.12.18 01:12:00 -
[4]
I have tried to capture the basics of the remote trading skills in this Diagram of EVE Trading Skills for Remote Orders; hopefully it is of some help.
Suggestions for improvement welcomed. á á
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Zeta Zhul
Caldari Preemptive Paranoia
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Posted - 2010.12.18 22:15:00 -
[5]
Hmmmm.
"Buy orders, allows me to place a "bid" for an item at the station I am currently located at. This bid can be seen from anywhere in the region by other players but can only be fulfilled by flying the item to the station I placed the bid at."
Mostly right but wrong. All buy orders are visible to all players within the same region and can be fulfilled by flying the item to within the set range of the buy order.
So I make a buy order for "125mm Gatling AutoCannon I" with a bid price of 500 isk/each and a range of "Region". This means that anyone can sell to me at the price of 500 isk/each this item within that region *unless* there is another buy order with a higher price that is within range of that person. Let's say there is one higher priced buy order for Sobaseki, @ 550/each, range 5 jumps. If the player is within 5 jumps of Sobaseki then that higher priced buy order will be green to him and that buy order will get the transaction. If the player is 6 jumps from Sobaseki then my regional buy order will take precedence.
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MailDeadDrop
The Collective
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Posted - 2010.12.19 17:34:00 -
[6]
Originally by: Thoraemond Suggestions for improvement welcomed.
I suggest you link that sucker into the evelopedia post haste. Very good Sir.
MDD
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KaarBaak
Minmatar Seatec Astronomy
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Posted - 2010.12.19 18:01:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Thoraemond I have tried to capture the basics of the remote trading skills in this Diagram of EVE Trading Skills for Remote Orders; hopefully it is of some help.
Suggestions for improvement welcomed.
Bookmarked for linkage in in-game Help chat.
KB
Circumstances rule men; men do not rule circumstances. --Herodotus, Histories
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Thoraemond
Minmatar Far Ranger
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Posted - 2010.12.19 20:56:00 -
[8]
Edited by: Thoraemond on 19/12/2010 20:57:53 Edit: had misspelled Daytrading.
Originally by: MailDeadDrop I suggest you link that sucker into the evelopedia post haste.
Originally by: KaarBaak Bookmarked for linkage in in-game Help chat.
Thanks for the peer review; link added in three relevant EVElopedia articles, including the Market Discussions FAQ:
Originally by: Market Discussions FAQ
What are the skills for making and modify orders remotely?
The skills Marketing and Procurement allow you to create Asks and Bids (Sell Orders and Buy Orders) at stations away from your current location (but still in the same region). The Visibility skill allows you to increase the catchment radius when creating remote Bids (Buy Orders). The Daytrading skill allows you to modify the prices of those orders.
No skills will magically move items from one station to another. If you set a remote bid, the items you buy will be delivered to the station(s) where that bid is effective. To set a remote ask, the item(s) to be sold must already be at the remote location.
This Diagram of EVE Trading Skills for Remote Orders illustrates the effect of these skills.
á á
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Fred Barbossa
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Posted - 2010.12.20 16:52:00 -
[9]
personally I'm appalled that op couldn't just read the skill description.
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Cornwalace
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Posted - 2010.12.21 19:59:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Fred Barbossa personally I'm appalled that op couldn't just read the skill description.
Reading some of the descriptions, and making sense of the descriptions are two different things.
It took me a while to wrap my head around capacitor's.
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Gagaliya BaLaBoom
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Posted - 2011.01.01 18:58:00 -
[11]
Thank you to OP and everyone, this thread has been most helpful. I am a miner so more interested on the sell side, have a few more questions/clarifications.
1) To remote sell in station ABC say 10 jumps away, is the below correct? A) train marketing to the correct level B) physically move the goods to station ABC via ship C) create the remote sell order at station ABC for those goods.
2) The sell order at station ABC is visible to everyone within the same region, but to buy them, buyer needs to physically come to the station ABC UNLESS they have their procurement skills as discussed earlier to remotely buy them?
3) How does this work? I see a buy order at remote station XYZ and I have the goods for the buy order also located at station XYZ, but i am NOT at station XYZ can i still fulfill that buy order?
4) Is there a way to increase the search range of market browser beyond "Region" with skills? If not, how do I know what the prices are for the same goods in a different region? Doesnt it severely limit your market knowledge. I only have 1 account, does it mean I have to physically fly to a different region just to get access to that region's prices for the goods
Thank you.
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Tasko Pal
Spallated Garniferous Schist
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Posted - 2011.01.01 19:44:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Gagaliya BaLaBoom
2) The sell order at station ABC is visible to everyone within the same region, but to buy them, buyer needs to physically come to the station ABC UNLESS they have their procurement skills as discussed earlier to remotely buy them?
If you want to buy remotely directly from the order, you don't need any skill, you just need to be in the same region. Procurement is needed to place a remote long term order or "book order".
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