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cyndrogen
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Posted - 2010.12.20 03:31:00 -
[1]
Edited by: cyndrogen on 20/12/2010 03:32:28 Please please CCP consider allowing onlive.com to host eve online.
I would love to be able to play eve on an iPad or any device for that matter without any additional development cost to CCP.
Consider putting eve online on a cloud service like onlive.com as a way to broaden your audience. You don't need a powerful machine if you just stream games from a cloud, all you need is an internet connection.
It would cut down your development costs because you would not need to support multiple platforms, OSX, WINDOWS 7 etc. and could just write software for ONE platform.
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Anhenka
Minmatar Bite me inc. Narwhals Ate My Duck
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Posted - 2010.12.20 05:00:00 -
[2]
Somehow I'm going to go out on a limb here and suggest a radical idea.
IT'S NOT THAT SIMPLE.
remember theres a great deal of client side calculation as well, and im seriously doubting the majority of handheld are going to be able to handle even the most dumbed down eve version.
So saying "doing this cause it would be so simple" is about as helpful and accurate as GET MOAR HAMSTERS!
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Marchocias
Snatch Victory
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Posted - 2010.12.20 09:18:00 -
[3]
Edited by: Marchocias on 20/12/2010 09:19:01
Originally by: Anhenka Somehow I'm going to go out on a limb here and suggest a radical idea.
IT'S NOT THAT SIMPLE.
remember theres a great deal of client side calculation as well, and im seriously doubting the majority of handheld are going to be able to handle even the most dumbed down eve version.
So saying "doing this cause it would be so simple" is about as helpful and accurate as GET MOAR HAMSTERS!
Online hwould handle all client calcs their end... They only serve the player streamed video and sound, and take input from a thin client. ---- I belong to Silent Ninja (Hopefully that should cover it). |
The Paperwork
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Posted - 2010.12.20 09:22:00 -
[4]
Originally by: Anhenka Somehow I'm going to go out on a limb here and suggest a radical idea.
IT'S NOT THAT SIMPLE.
remember theres a great deal of client side calculation as well, and im seriously doubting the majority of handheld are going to be able to handle even the most dumbed down eve version.
So saying "doing this cause it would be so simple" is about as helpful and accurate as GET MOAR HAMSTERS!
You clearly have no idea how onlive / similar services work. They run client software (the game) on their servers, stream the video to the handheld device and take the mouse / keyboard input and feed that to their copy of the client.
It really is that simple. I think I read somewhere you can already do this; I was googling for info on running eve on blackberry, and there's a way you can set something like an onlive-type service on your pc.
The obvious downside is moar lag. Which is probably fine for everything short of pvp pew pew.
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Helen Hunts
Gallente Red Dragon Mining inc Red Dragon Industries
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Posted - 2010.12.20 10:41:00 -
[5]
Originally by: The Paperwork
Originally by: Anhenka Somehow I'm going to go out on a limb here and suggest a radical idea.
IT'S NOT THAT SIMPLE.
remember theres a great deal of client side calculation as well, and im seriously doubting the majority of handheld are going to be able to handle even the most dumbed down eve version.
So saying "doing this cause it would be so simple" is about as helpful and accurate as GET MOAR HAMSTERS!
You clearly have no idea how onlive / similar services work. They run client software (the game) on their servers, stream the video to the handheld device and take the mouse / keyboard input and feed that to their copy of the client.
It really is that simple. I think I read somewhere you can already do this; I was googling for info on running eve on blackberry, and there's a way you can set something like an onlive-type service on your pc.
The obvious downside is moar lag. Which is probably fine for everything short of pvp pew pew.
You seriously want to stream hours of real-time video with negligible delay to your handheld gizmo? I hope you've got one hell of a network you can connect to, as well an unlimited bandwidth plan.
Quite frankly, EVE can easily be run on a dial-up connection, without issues (fleet fights excepted). Streaming video, through whatever service you think is so uber, is NOT going to be easy on the bandwidth. The EVE client takes simple position/status info and converts it into lots of fancy (and unique) images. Most of the available games you're seeing have a stock of images that don't need to change every frame. Your 'service' would have the extra CPU load of a game that would REQUIRE high-priority processing, on top of the need for no-delay video streaming. (you DID want to do more than just have a time-delayed chat in local, right?)
EVE isn't a fancy version of Solitaire or Bejeweled. Wishful thinking won't make it work because you think it should. Onlive and similar companies have better things to do with their R&D budget than blow it all on a single game that won't be able to repay the investment, even if it WERE possible in the first place.
And yes, I do know how the hardware works.
Oh, BTW, the experiments with handhelds and EVE have been done before. It's variations on Remote Desktop. Chribba did a few of those to see if it *could* be done, not to actually play EVE on a handheld. (EVE-Search it sometime) _______________________________
Mine da rocks, make more ships. Pop da rats, make more rigs. Sell da gear, make more money.
Any Questions? |
shady trader
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Posted - 2010.12.20 10:46:00 -
[6]
This would not result in the devs not having to develop for multiple platforms. Since On live actually have high bandwith requirements then eve so some existing players would not be able to play using it, also CCP would be relaying on one live keeping there servers up and maintaining the account security (imagine someone getting a key logger onto their servers). I have look at the deals when the company I work for was considering a hookup with them.
It would also increase costs as on live will not do it for free, if you look at the priced that on live have published. You will see that its only cost effective for trailing a game or if you only play a couple of hours a week. Also you would not be able to pay for on live server using plexes.
Then there is the problem of some doing a DDOS attack similar to the one done on the call of duty servers. Do we want to have problems access eve just because some 12 year old script kid is unhappy that someone kept shooting him in the head in a FPS? Macrointel, the place were the nature order of the universe does not hold sway. Pirates and ore thief's are congratulated by carebears for the actions. |
Kara Sharalien
Gallente Federal Navy Academy
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Posted - 2010.12.21 08:45:00 -
[7]
Yo dawg, I heard you liked subscription fees, so I subscribed you to a streaming service for the game you subscribe to so you can be billed for your bills.
Yo dawg, I heard you liked latency, so I put another layer of abstraction, I/O processing and compression between you and the servers so you can lag while you lag.
Originally by: Thuul'Khalat WHY YOU VIOLENCE MY BOAT?!
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Kanatta Jing
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Posted - 2010.12.21 09:30:00 -
[8]
I think people do run streaming EVE, they just stream from their home computer to their hand held.
Makes me wonder why they talk about moar apps for handhelds or even talk about cloud when you can just remote access a real computer, you yourself own, located in the same municipality as you.
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ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors
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Posted - 2010.12.21 09:31:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Kara Sharalien Yo dawg, I heard you liked subscription fees, so I subscribed you to a streaming service for the game you subscribe to so you can be billed for your bills.
Yo dawg, I heard you liked latency, so I put another layer of abstraction, I/O processing and compression between you and the servers so you can lag while you lag.
Dammit... you owe me a new keyboard!!! And a cup of coffee!! _______________________
"Just because I seem like an idiot doesn't mean I am one." ~Unknown |
Xercodo
Amarr INESTO Task Force
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Posted - 2010.12.21 10:23:00 -
[10]
having used OnLive myself, im here to say that I want this cause...
A) I would hope that we wouldn't be paying OnLive as long as we have a active sub, we'd login the same way
B) Almost all lag I have atm is due to comp being fail, not as much the server or my connection
and like I've said, I've used OnLive and seen what it can do, once integrated EVE would be cake for them ^^
@ "what? your playing on a iPad or a phone?!": I've seen a demonstration of OnLive playing Borderlands thru a iPad and it was running rather smoothly, so the idea isn't that far-fetched.....that and i've seen Chribba do it :P
-------------------------------------------------- The drake is a lie
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Reeno Coleman
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Posted - 2010.12.21 11:57:00 -
[11]
I'd rather kill myself then work/play with a 100ms delayed mouse, but well ... otherwise the system works.
I wonder though, if 10p text on a fullHD resulution gets completely destroyed by the compression.
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Venkul Mul
Gallente
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Posted - 2010.12.21 12:08:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Xercodo having used OnLive myself, im here to say that I want this cause...
A) I would hope that we wouldn't be paying OnLive as long as we have a active sub, we'd login the same way
So either CCP get less money or OnLive work free of charge?
both highly improbable.
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The Paperwork
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Posted - 2010.12.21 17:57:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Helen Hunts
You seriously want to stream hours of real-time video with negligible delay to your handheld gizmo? I hope you've got one hell of a network you can connect to, as well an unlimited bandwidth plan.
I'm sorry, are you from the past? At least in the US all major carriers offer 3g or 4g networks and unlimited data for far less than the cost of a wired data service, which does streaming video just fine thanks. Oh, and wifi works too. Quote: Quite frankly, EVE can easily be run on a dial-up connection, without issues (fleet fights excepted). Streaming video, through whatever service you think is so uber, is NOT going to be easy on the bandwidth.
You missed the point here entirely. Bandwidth is rarely the issue. Processing capability is. Quote: Your 'service' would have the extra CPU load of a game that would REQUIRE high-priority processing, on top of the need for no-delay video streaming. (you DID want to do more than just have a time-delayed chat in local, right?)
EVE isn't a fancy version of Solitaire or Bejeweled. Wishful thinking won't make it work because you think it should. Onlive and similar companies have better things to do with their R&D budget than blow it all on a single game that won't be able to repay the investment, even if it WERE possible in the first place.
My god, you just proven irrefutably that OnLive's business model is completely unfeasible! You better go let them know so they can stop making money. Quote: And yes, I do know how the hardware works.
Oh, BTW, the experiments with handhelds and EVE have been done before. It's variations on Remote Desktop. Chribba did a few of those to see if it *could* be done, not to actually play EVE on a handheld. (EVE-Search it sometime)
Congratulations on contradicting your entire argument.
Something like the iPad clearly has plenty of processing power to handle the streaming and input collection, so it'd just be EVE + lag on a device that could otherwise never run EVE, which is something that there is definitely a market for.
Ever read the epic whine threads when CCP discontinued whatever the non-premium graphics option was? Or the whines regarding the upcoming mandatory shader 3.0 change? This is the option for cheap-asses with crap computers. Or something that would let people change skills and do market orders from their phone? This is the option for people with day jobs.
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Jason Travers
Space 1999
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Posted - 2010.12.21 22:00:00 -
[14]
Being on a cloud isn't always the safest thing. It is much easyer for hackers to get into a cloud than getting into most large corporations. I could see someone hacking the could servers and making their own game mods LOL.
Cloud servers such as Google are not as easily hacked but not imposable. If a cloud is hacked it doesn't just pose a problem for one client but for every client on the cloud as well. Clouds have their pros and cons, but as far as gaming on a cloud, I would have to say no. Mommy that mean ole bear just dukied in my sandbox. :( |
cyndrogen
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Posted - 2010.12.21 22:47:00 -
[15]
As proof on concept, I decided to install REAL VNC on my laptop as a server , and I also installed it on my iphone as a client.
I was able to get it working over my wifi network at home and I was playing eve online on an iPhone! Obviously it CAN work, however the connection was slow even after dumbing down the stream to low settings and less colors.
With a static IP I could pretty much be anywhere in the world and connect through VNC. Trading and mining and all other low maintenance activities are completely fine even with lag.
With onlive however the graphics could be VASTLY improved because of a unified architecture and supercomputer grade hardware. This means that everone , even on an ancient laptop, could see the client in the best possible render available with military grade hardware. Think your little PC at home can compute anything even remotely close to a supercomupter with teraflops of bandwidth? Dream on little guy.
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