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SpecialGrade Cyborg
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Posted - 2010.12.20 11:48:00 -
[1]
Hi,
I was thinking about how combat looks in EVE. I played Eve about two years ago for about 6-7 months and stopped. Now I tried again and apart from some balancing issues and added planetary control nothing much changed in presentation layer.
First: missiles vs turrets. It's very cool that if you attach turret to ship it is added to model of the ship. It is cool that turrets are turning and are shooting only those that have right angle (so no shooting through own ship). On the other hand if you add missile bay it does not show on the model of the ship. If you fire missile it suddenly "appears" some distance from the ship. Why?
Second: adding animations to hitting and missing. If you are shooting at ship and you miss you can see that beam or missile hit your target. In fact if you miss, just barly hit or perfectly hit you get the same animation. The only difference is in message displayed. I don't think it would be too hard on computer to show different animations and it would be nice to look at. If you are flying solo and you are running the missions most of your game time would be fighting NPCs. In that case most of the time you will see two or more ships circling around and shooting. It is very boring to watch same animation over and over again. After all it could be just text and it would be as much entertaining.
Third: flight maneuvers. Why there is a skill called "Evasive maneuvers" but it doesn't change a thing if you are in combat? Don't get me wrong I don't want to steer a ship by myself but it could at least try to change it trajectory or try to doge incoming fire. If you look at any film that has space battles those are very exciting and fun to watch. If I'm shooting at other NPCs for the last 40 minutes is it too much to have fun looking at the fight? If text says "... misses you completly" would it be too much to see that your ship is banking hard right (or left) and shoot goes past your ship?
Computers are much more advanced right now and adding few animations wouldn't change performance at all. For graphic card it doesn't matter if it displays beam hitting center of your ship or just a wing. Adding animations of effect of the hit (flash? little explosion?) could be optional and could be turn off on weaker machines.
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Pandele Bishnitzaru
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Posted - 2010.12.20 11:59:00 -
[2]
I agree with you mate , quite a loss of immersion here due to that lack of effects :(
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Kieran Westgate
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Posted - 2010.12.20 12:01:00 -
[3]
It would be better to have this and yes peoples graphics would most probably be able to handle this. However it's not a case of that the problem is the strain on the servers it would cause.At the moment they have already had bad lag with large fleet and structure battles, if this were to happen with your given ideas I wouldn't be surprised if the server failed. Overall though I think it's a good idea but CCP would be required to put in a large amount of input.
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Soden Rah
Gallente Rapier Industry and Technology Second Sun Rising
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Posted - 2010.12.20 12:06:00 -
[4]
Originally by: Kieran Westgate It would be better to have this and yes peoples graphics would most probably be able to handle this. However it's not a case of that. The problem is the strain on the servers it would cause. At the moment they have already had bad lag with large fleet and structure battles, if this were to happen with your given ideas I wouldn't be surprised if the server failed. Overall though I think it's a good idea but CCP would be required to put in a large amount of input.
The only server side work requiered is for the evasive manuvers, wich would be done by the physics engine of destiny. Depending on implementation this could probably be don't with little impact on the server. Everything else is the client choosing what animation to display given the information it receives from the servers. The client already knows if a shot is a hit or a miss to enable it to display a note telling you.
Originally by: CCP Tuxford bugger, I need to have a closer look at this menu function
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Fenren
Minmatar Bure Astro Photography
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Posted - 2010.12.20 12:10:00 -
[5]
Originally by: Soden Rah
Originally by: Kieran Westgate It would be better to have this and yes peoples graphics would most probably be able to handle this. However it's not a case of that. The problem is the strain on the servers it would cause. At the moment they have already had bad lag with large fleet and structure battles, if this were to happen with your given ideas I wouldn't be surprised if the server failed. Overall though I think it's a good idea but CCP would be required to put in a large amount of input.
The only server side work requiered is for the evasive manuvers, wich would be done by the physics engine of destiny. Depending on implementation this could probably be don't with little impact on the server. Everything else is the client choosing what animation to display given the information it receives from the servers. The client already knows if a shot is a hit or a miss to enable it to display a note telling you.
But it doesn't know if your friends shot was a hit or a miss, and in a fleet battle, that is a lot of extra information that has to be sent from the server, and it will cause lag!
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Le Meistars
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Posted - 2010.12.20 13:17:00 -
[6]
Edited by: Le Meistars on 20/12/2010 13:17:03 So it looks like the game has reached it`s possibilities. I mean this same old excause "large fleets" Is this the game goal, the most important thing? This is silly ..its like " i can`t switch the channel because my remote run out of batteries" :D I`ve been participating only in one "large fleet" (over 600 pl in system) I turned off all effects left only the basic and still got only like 5 fps. Ok, i`m not the pro here so plese if there is some one with more exp please shere with us.. how meny fps are u getting? :)
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Busta Rimes
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Posted - 2010.12.21 04:45:00 -
[7]
Supported, better combat effects would be much appreciated. In relation to server load, i don't see why the animation couldn't be processed purely client side seeing as it is a purely aesthetic effect. I would like to add the suggestion of visible structure damage appearing on damaged ships, as they are hit, with ships reaching the last 1/4th of their hull ending up looking like a flaming ball of swiss cheese leaving behind pieces of itself. Again, i figure that could be purely client side as well, since i couldn't imagine what issue could arise from having two people see slightly different variations of where smoke trails or damage decals are located and applied on a ship.
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SpecialGrade Cyborg
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Posted - 2010.12.21 13:09:00 -
[8]
Edited by: SpecialGrade Cyborg on 21/12/2010 13:15:11 It wouldn't affect server performance at all. Server just sends to your client if hit was a success and how much damage was dealt. And then it depends ONLY from your client if it displays default (and only) animation and displays text or if it displays another animation.
And I agree with Busta Rimes that it doesn't matter if two people sees two slightly different animation (for example I see that my ship was hit in right wing and somebody sees my ship was hit in left wing or tail).
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Thyme Wasted
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Posted - 2010.12.21 20:52:00 -
[9]
No reason this couldn't be done, it could be all client side stuff. And if it's toggle-able, then there's no downside at all.
I thought this thread was noting that the ship models don't have many animations. It would be cool if they had more moving parts; some amarr ships almost look like they're intended to have moving shields, which would be awesome if that were worked into their defensive animations.
In fact, it would make sense if speed tanking ships did little aerial maneuvers, armor tanking ships did some ablative armor / shifting plates stuff, and shield tankers would get persistent hot spots, or something like the shields from dune that got all boxy.
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Juliette DuBois
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Posted - 2010.12.21 20:59:00 -
[10]
Two things: Incarna and WoD.
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StarCEO
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Posted - 2010.12.21 23:48:00 -
[11]
They don't afford to pay for better graphics because:
Because they spend all their money on paying people to make silly things like PI where you need to click 4 times (2x double click) a mine to reset it, every 5h, x 10 mines per planet x 5 planets per char (thats just resetting didn't mention the clicks and the dizzyness you get from spinning a planet to find a secondary mining colony).
And now to remove the click from what I hear they will change PI mining into something with about as many clicks but different...
Basically CCP from my point of view as a player, made a decision between adding more stuff (even know some its **** or unfinished) or fixing bugs (mechanics, graphics, w/e). So to keep people interested they went for putting money into adding more stuff. Which kind of backfires because they don't fix some of the old bugs and the new stuff gets in with its own bugs adding more to the torment. Not to mention that they rush things and we all see where that gets the game to. (AKA: PI)
Personally think CCP should allocate 6 months or so and make a patch with only bug fixes/ revised graphics a little. That including missile launcher graphics to.
For the record: -some amarr ships still look horrible and look like they made out of wet yellow paper. -caldari raven needs some painting with love. -with "drone animations on" the drone is pointing guns in front but fires sideways at least make the drones fly sideways and always point at the target they shoat at. that would be cool (not even dreaming about drone turret fx) -for some reason ccp removed the "Look At" option for missiles. which is making me sad as I enjoyed to do it from time to time. You also can no longer pop up info on the missiles directly on screen. To get the info you need select the missile and click the icon in the selected item window.... Silly rabbits... -and as a little joke here: if you made scorpion look like a scorpion why isn't the rattlesnake looking like a rattlesnake.
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DrDooma
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Posted - 2010.12.22 02:34:00 -
[12]
I am sure everyone appreciates that no matter how good the graphics are, the novelty whares of very hast.
Especially in PVP battles you donĘt have time to appreciate turret effects. In larger fights all your effects are off anyway. ThatĘs right, ALL of them.
I also paly an FPS (ranked top 6k) which has recently updated its graphics. I stoped noticing the difference on second day bud did find my average KD per battle go donwn. Turned off all the graphics off because they were too distracting by the end of first week, my KD returned back to normal.
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SpecialGrade Cyborg
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Posted - 2010.12.22 11:40:00 -
[13]
Originally by: DrDooma I am sure everyone appreciates that no matter how good the graphics are, the novelty whares of very hast.
Especially in PVP battles you donĘt have time to appreciate turret effects. In larger fights all your effects are off anyway. ThatĘs right, ALL of them.
I also paly an FPS (ranked top 6k) which has recently updated its graphics. I stoped noticing the difference on second day bud did find my average KD per battle go donwn. Turned off all the graphics off because they were too distracting by the end of first week, my KD returned back to normal.
Ok. But this is only for PvP hardcore players. What about all those who do missions or mine? If you want that this game would be only in PvP then I think that it would soon end its life. I mean where would you buy stuff like minerals, ship's parts, ships or insignia? Only from NPCs?
Good luck with game that is only one big PvP arena.
I'm sure that there are a lot of hardcore sci-fi fans who love flying through unlimited space and admire every part of it. A lot of people are flying solo and EXPLORING!
And from what I understand you will be satisfied if ships were just pixels as long as yours K/D ratio is fine.
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DrysonBennington
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Posted - 2010.12.22 14:32:00 -
[14]
Edited by: DrysonBennington on 22/12/2010 14:32:46 CCCP? What does the old CCCP have to do with anything relating to EvE Online?
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Le Meistars
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Posted - 2010.12.22 15:07:00 -
[15]
Ok. But this is only for PvP hardcore players. What about all those who do missions or mine? If you want that this game would be only in PvP then I think that it would soon end its life. I mean where would you buy stuff like minerals, ship's parts, ships or insignia? Only from NPCs?
Good luck with game that is only one big PvP arena.
I'm sure that there are a lot of hardcore sci-fi fans who love flying through unlimited space and admire every part of it. A lot of people are flying solo and EXPLORING!
And from what I understand you will be satisfied if ships were just pixels as long as yours K/D ratio is fine.
Exactly my thoughts. I mean .. do u find watching a huge blob from -250km zoom entertaining? :D
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Thyme Wasted
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Posted - 2010.12.23 03:15:00 -
[16]
It's more like play-by-overview for large-scale pvp... blech.
In any case, even in those huge fleet fights, usually someone's doing FRAPs and it'd be nice if at least ONE person could have a more visually stimulating video... actually, that raises a good point, wouldn't it be nice if CCP gave us more tools for making movies in game?
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