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Doctero
Aperture Harmonics K162
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Posted - 2010.12.20 22:03:00 -
[1]
So it seems pretty common for miners to want new mining ships for better yields, which most of us recognize as being silly because it would just inflate the mineral market, and obsolesce the hulk.
But what about a ship that actually 1) mines SIGNIFICANTLY faster, 2) only offers a slight increased (or significantly lower) yields compared to the hulk, and 3) effectively eats roids at a terrifying speed. The main idea being that rather than creating wealth for the pilot, it is actively depleting the resource, creating a SHORTAGE of minerals and being an industrial weapon to deny mineral access to the competition / enemy.
There are many options for implementation: 1) planting bombs on the roids, which destroy them completely and leave super-concentrated ore, or some other goody, in their wake. 2) new mining laser module which acts as a REAL strip miner, depleting the roid very quickly and giving a slightly increased yield than a normal mining laser / strip miner. E.g., the laser version depletes 1000 m3 of roid, gives 100m3 of ore, the strip miner version would deplete 15k m3 of ore and give 1000m3 of ore. (purely hypothetical numbers here. I'm not a miner) 3) new ship class specifically designed for offensive mining. 4) new mining foreman link that increases mining yield but adds a depletion multiplier. 5) new module which allows existing weapon systems to destroy roids and leave behind goodies ala #1.
One huge benefit to this new pvp tool is that macro miners would have to face real threats of income denial.
TL;DR: Make it possible to destroy roids, deny mining income and create mineral shortages.
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Doctero
Aperture Harmonics K162
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Posted - 2010.12.21 20:27:00 -
[2]
Originally by: Jason Travers Well what I can see happening is people setting up belts in high-sec as booby trapped. So when someone goes to mine they get blown up. I don't see that as a good idea just another way to grief. Also when you start blowing up everyone's hulks and mining ships they are not making minerals to put on the market, they are not able to make replacements and the market for both goes threw the roof due to supply and demand.
Yeah I am definitely not proposing the booby trap idea, Hulkageddon works just fine for that. Please stay on topic.
Strategically reducing the available roid pool, on the other hand, is what we're talking about, and the market going "threw the roof" lol is exactly what the mining profession needs to be more viable.
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Doctero
Aperture Harmonics K162
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Posted - 2010.12.21 20:44:00 -
[3]
Originally by: Jason Travers Well the point is that most PVPers donĘt seem to relies about a sandbox game is there are different styles of play. The carebear community is a large portion of CCPs income and they are also people with a different play style than the PVPer. We all play to have fun in different ways.
The point of this proposal is to open up a new style of play, one specifically directed towards carebears, to take different pvp actions with their mining lasers. It also makes them more useful in the context of a war effort.
What YOU don't seem to realize is that mining already IS a sort of competitive / pvp activity, and EVE IS a robust "fully PVP MMO", the largest example of which is the MARKET. Whether you're doing it indirectly (devaluing other's worth by producing a competing product), or directly (blowing up their capital) it's all pvp. And it's awesome.
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Doctero
Aperture Harmonics K162
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Posted - 2010.12.21 21:36:00 -
[4]
Originally by: Jason Travers If it got to where There was nothing to mine for an extended time and I see that I'm not playing because of it. I would quit and move on to another MMO as I have done in the past, because it is no longer fun.
Good riddance. If that's really all you do, then you're effectively a bot anyways.
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Doctero
Aperture Harmonics K162
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Posted - 2010.12.21 23:03:00 -
[5]
Originally by: Jason Travers You might think I'm effectively a bot just because I don't play like you. To be honest that is a very narrow minded view.
No, I think you're effectively a bot if all you do in-game could be replaced (and done more efficiently) by a bot. I've trained alts to fly hulks, and alts to fly orcas, (and sold them for a profit) and I've tried a pretty wide swath of what eve has to offer far beyond that; it is not narrow-minded to suggest you do more than check a few belts for roids, and log off if you don't find any. That "play style" certainly isn't going to attract more players to eve or keep most existing ones for long.
What does any of that have to do with this proposition anyways? This is about miners mining, not blowing up ships. It's about playing the game the way you already do, but with more choices about the tools you'll use. It's about fighting bots in-game, by shooting rocks instead of ships.
If you can't stay on topic, I appreciate the bump but consider yourself ignored.
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Doctero
Aperture Harmonics K162
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Posted - 2010.12.23 01:23:00 -
[6]
Originally by: Gemberslaafje
That could be funny - some kind of inexpensive boobytraps which can be used (launched?) onto Astroids...
If you use a strip miner on said astroids - BAM, AOE damage.
If you use a booby trap on a booby trapped astroid - BAMBAM, 2x AOE damage.
If you start your strip miners on 3 booby trapped astroids - BAMBAMBAM, 3x AOE damage.
Also +1 on the OP - Mining 'PvP' sounds very interesting (Even though I wouldn't take the career choice)
Thanks for your support!
I kind of like the idea of the boobytrapping idea, it could create interesting mine-field tactics, and really mess with macro miners. But it would have to be a 0.0 thing only, as I could see AOE damage being a pretty big problem in hisec... purposely double trapping to use AOE damage on nearby targets for instance, tanking the damage and ganking the miners sounds like a EULA-breaching evasion of CONCORD.
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Doctero
Aperture Harmonics K162
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Posted - 2010.12.26 21:44:00 -
[7]
Bump.
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Doctero
Aperture Harmonics K162
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Posted - 2010.12.26 21:56:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Goose99 Wouldn't mission salvaging fill some of the shortage? There are a lot of untapped wrecks left over by blitzers.
That's fine. So this proposal perhaps has the side effect of boosting mission income, for those that choose to pick up all the loot scraps. Not sure if it's worth it though.
Didn't they nerf the mineral yield from missions anyways, by reducing tech1meta0 drop rates?
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Doctero
Aperture Harmonics K162
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Posted - 2011.01.03 10:57:00 -
[9]
Edited by: Doctero on 03/01/2011 11:00:08
Originally by: Marlona Sky You do realize all this will do is screw over the legitimate human miners right? They will stop mining, not bother going to low sec because low sec is full of pirates who only know how to gank bears and in the end, it will be less competition for the botters.
Thus, you have boosted their income.
I understand what you would like to do, but until a way is found to get rid of botters, anything you do just hurts real players while boosting them.
Don't know if I buy that. I think it would be exceptionally difficult to eradicate ALL the hisec belts, so it would probably just result in it being more challenging to find good belts. You could tweak it to do as Kara Sharalien mentioned, and destructive mining negatively affect sec status, (makes a lot of sense really!) or just yield substantially less ore in hisec. The idea being to lower the odds that indy noobs can't find a veld rock to cut their teeth on; I'd think any kind of serious miner would be out in 0.0 or w-space with the ABC roids.
Also note this scheme wouldn't affect grav sites at all, so people that scan for roids would be just peachy, and nerfing the low-hanging fruit and boosting the slightly more elusive goodies sounds good to me.
Side note: Is there ever reason to mine in lowsec? I don't know. Probably not. I'd think most bears would prefer 0.0 alliances / renters or w-space far more than lowsec.
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Doctero
Aperture Harmonics K162
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Posted - 2011.01.04 02:35:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Ranka Mei I too appreciate that you're trying to do here, but what it would really accomplish, in the end, is just more unbalance. Serveral big corps will gain control over most mining activity, creating near monopolies, driving up the mineral prices like crazy.
Sounds like fun; those corps would make great war-dec targets.
And why would driving mineral prices up be a bad thing? From what I understand, right now they're in the toilet.
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Doctero
Aperture Harmonics K162
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Posted - 2011.01.04 22:38:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Ranka Mei
Originally by: Doctero And why would driving mineral prices up be a bad thing? From what I understand, right now they're in the toilet.
Driving up mineral prices means I'd have to pay more for my ships. :) And having to pay more for my ships, I'd need more ISK. And needing more ISK, I'd need for mining not to become an activity you practically won't be able to solo any more.
Wait, what? Why would you need mining to be a solo activity if you need isk? You seem to be strongly defending the macro miner position.
Originally by: Desya Dak'ann I think in hi sec, null sec and low sec you should have to scan down asteroid belts, like in wormholes. Asteroids randomly change position every day after DT and hisec asteroids get maybe 1-2 of the ABC roids, with 1000 units or less in them. This would counter macros and hopefully make ore prices go up.
I agree that grav sites should become about half of the available roids in game, but ABC roids in hisec is a definite no go. Belts are useful for ratters, and noobs also, so I could see more grav sites + destructive mining together being a great change.
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Doctero
Aperture Harmonics K162
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Posted - 2011.01.04 23:12:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Ranka Mei
Originally by: Doctero Wait, what? Why would you need mining to be a solo activity if you need isk? You seem to be strongly defending the macro miner position.
LOL. Ever heard of grinding? :) I have an indy alt that mines a lot; and yes, solo. When this new idea would take hold, I'd have to become engaged in complicated, dangerous low-sec/0.0 mining wars (probably only costing me ISK, risk-wise); and I neither have the time for that, nor the inclination. I'd like mining to remain what it currently is: a simple way to make some extra ISK, like PI stuff, for when you need some income -- without the hassle.
Not everything in EVE should be turned into PvP; and being pro-PvE activity does not make one defend the macro miner position (again, LOL).
Grinding in EVE is dumb. Mining is already a pvp activity; this proposal sharpens that aspect. The solo miner would still exist, but would involve more hunting for grav sites than just warping to blips on the overview. So I'll admit without increasing grav site frequency, perhaps the solo miner would have a harder time.
Furthermore, I am a huge fan of pve AND pvp in EVE, but I despise boring, monotonous, easily-botted pve because it makes any effort spent "grinding" or just playing the game less meaningful.
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Doctero
Aperture Harmonics K162
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Posted - 2011.01.11 21:44:00 -
[13]
As a side note, would it be completely ridiculous to apply the same idea to belt rats? Ammo / mods that allow you to kill them very quickly but reduce their bounties and drop rate by 50% or more, and have no effect on other players / mission rats?
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Doctero
Aperture Harmonics K162
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Posted - 2011.01.26 03:03:00 -
[14]
bump
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Doctero
Aperture Harmonics K162
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Posted - 2011.02.07 06:10:00 -
[15]
Maybe a special ammo type, that damages roids, leaves ore / minerals in it's wake? Could me interesting. Just another venue for the idea really... and make for a truly scary veldnaught.
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