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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 1 post(s) |
AMARR SGT
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Posted - 2010.12.22 00:26:00 -
[1]
Edited by: AMARR SGT on 22/12/2010 00:27:58
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Akita T
Caldari
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2010.12.22 00:30:00 -
[2]
Edited by: Akita T on 22/12/2010 00:31:20
Best/worst
Field : NH / Astarte
Fleet : Damnation / Eos
P.S. Or you could just look at the market prices, I bet they tell almost the exact same story 
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Make ISK||Build||React||1k papercuts
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Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
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Posted - 2010.12.22 00:38:00 -
[3]
àalthough, truth be told, a lot of the meh:ness of the Gallente CSes is due to the complete and utter uselessness of Information Warfare links.
ùùù
ôIf you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡à
you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.ö
ù Karath Piki |
Milo Caman
Gallente
Anshar Incorporated
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Posted - 2010.12.22 00:40:00 -
[4]
 Originally by: Tippia
àalthough, truth be told, a lot of the meh:ness of the Gallente CSes is due to the complete and utter uselessness of Information Warfare links.
There are one or two situations where they're useful.
However, these are *very* specific. For example, if you happen to have a fleet of Rooks/Arazus. Being practically impossible to Jam is always nice.
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Grez
Neo Spartans
Laconian Syndicate
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Posted - 2010.12.22 00:46:00 -
[5]
Damnation by far the best fleet when properly fit.
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io0olilo0oi
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Posted - 2010.12.22 00:46:00 -
[6]
best - sleip
worst - the rest
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Surfin's PlunderBunny
Minmatar
The Python Cartel.
The Jerk Cartel
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Posted - 2010.12.22 00:56:00 -
[7]
Best: Sleipnir
Worst: Either Caldari, ferox looks stupid
*Touches self*
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Michelle Vega
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Posted - 2010.12.22 01:03:00 -
[8]
IMHO:
Best in a fleet would be the Damnation. Armor resist are tough to crack and it is pretty good with missiles.
Best in solo roaming would be the Nighthawk. Shield resists are and it is really good with missiles.
A lot depends on your skills for missiles / gunnery.
I think I once lost a Damnation in 0.0 when I fell asleep. From the logs I figured out I was shot at byt over 30 pilots for around 40 seconds. Iirc I had passive armor resists. Was a looong time ago anyway.
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Culmen
Caldari
Blood Phage Syndicate
Syndicate.
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Posted - 2010.12.22 01:22:00 -
[9]
Ranked From Best to Worst
Field
Slepinir: Only command ship I'd consider nano-ing, hits hard and tanks hard too.
Nighthawk: Great PVE ship, sorta like a poor man's Tengu. Still got fond memories of this thing running 0.0 plexes
Absolution: Don't knock it, it hits like a BS but tracks like a cruiser. Tanks like a mother f*cker. Seem plenty of ships just plain melt under it's lasers.
Astarte: Either equip it with blasters, and be too slow to catch up with anything and do damage, or fit it with railguns and do crap damage.
Even if you do get inclose, that's alot of isk for a death-or-glory blaster knife fight ship.
Fleet
Damnation: Damn, thats a heavy tank. Unless there are capitals on the field, it'll almost always have the most buffer in any fleet. Practically required for Armor-RR work.
Vulture: That drake fleet you got? This is the ship you pull out to support it.
Tanks hard and helps a with everyone elses shields.
Claymore: Well it's like a sleip with a gang bonus, the skirmish warfare stuff might help with a nano-gang, but i doubt it'd be able to keep up.
Eos: One word: Why? Doesn't tank well, doesn't hit hard, information warfare sucks
and further more why do i even need a sig? |
Grimpak
Gallente
The Whitehound Corporation
Hounds of Anarchy
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Posted - 2010.12.22 01:27:00 -
[10]
worst commadships are the gallente ones.
the astarte because of blasters and not the ship itself (altho the active tank bonus is meh at the very least), and the eos because of info warfare and the tanking bonus too.
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Quote:
The more I know about humans, the more I love animals.
ain't that right. |
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Ultim8Evil
Black Serpent Technologies
R.A.G.E
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Posted - 2010.12.22 01:27:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Culmen
Absolution: Don't knock it, it hits like a BS but tracks like a cruiser. Tanks like a mother f*cker. Seem plenty of ships just plain melt under it's lasers.
Finally someone mentions the Abso <3
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Lana Torrin
Minmatar Republic Military Skool
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Posted - 2010.12.22 02:07:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Tippia
àalthough, truth be told, a lot of the meh:ness of the Gallente CSes is due to the complete and utter uselessness of Information Warfare links, active armour tanks, blasters etc...
Fixed Your Post
Support giving carebears new toys |
Omara Otawan
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Posted - 2010.12.22 02:22:00 -
[13]
Why all the hate for the poor Astarte? It does the shield gank part pretty good, integrates into shield fleets just as good as the Sleipnir.
Sure its 200m/s slower, aligns a tad bit slower, but then again its got the much better damage projection.
And its cheaper than most HACs, so not exactly a drama losing one.
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Mitsune Konno
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Posted - 2010.12.22 03:44:00 -
[14]
bring back 5 heavy drone eos!!!
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Xodd Hil
Gallente
Trucido Veritas
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Posted - 2010.12.22 05:52:00 -
[15]
Worst: Eos, by far... that ship really needs some love!
60day ETC |
Atius Tirawa
Minmatar
Sebiestor tribe
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Posted - 2010.12.22 07:28:00 -
[16]
Combat - Absolution/Slephnier - both are tied for first place imo - the absolution is not as flexble or quick for roams, but its got great hitting power and a great tank, the sleph is arguably my favorate ship to fly - very fun with all that ac goodness.
Flet -Damnation by a long shot - strongest sub-tank in the game. Claymore for skirmish links is always a + for gangs - but a sleph or cane can fit the most important skirmish mod and teh loki is a better fleet cs for mini imo.
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SpotlessBlade
Night Wolves
Systematic-Chaos
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Posted - 2010.12.22 07:51:00 -
[17]
Edited by: SpotlessBlade on 22/12/2010 07:51:37
I fly gallente only... Trained for the Command Ship... was veritably shaking with anticipation..... finished BC5...CS to 4....got my Astarte....cried uncontrollably...****ing nightmare of a ship to fit, fly, or justify buying.
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Aranaquas
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Posted - 2010.12.22 07:59:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Xodd Hil
Worst: Eos, by far... that ship really needs some love!
If you can a dedicated ECM wing, it (and the info war links) can be quite useful. On my vulture, I fit the good info warfare and skirmish links besides my siege ones just because they add a bit more thinking to an otherwise pretty boring fleet role.
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CCP Spitfire
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Posted - 2010.12.22 08:54:00 -
[19]
Moved from 'EVE General Discussion'.
Spitfire
Community Representative
CCP Hf, EVE Online |
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Grimpak
Gallente
The Whitehound Corporation
Hounds of Anarchy
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Posted - 2010.12.22 12:39:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Omara Otawan
but then again its got the much better damage projection.
it has? last time I saw, blasters are kinda in the bottom layer of the food chain, as far as range is concerned, unless it's a rail astarte...
rail astarte can do as much dps as a blaster deimos if I'm not mistaken btw.
Originally by: Aranaquas
Originally by: Xodd Hil
Worst: Eos, by far... that ship really needs some love!
If you can a dedicated ECM wing, it (and the info war links) can be quite useful. On my vulture, I fit the good info warfare and skirmish links besides my siege ones just because they add a bit more thinking to an otherwise pretty boring fleet role.
if the vulture had a longer locking range and rails weren't as bad as they are, it could double as an interesting rail platform.
besides that, the eos is simply not worth the hassle. gang "critical mass" numbers as far as Ewar goes can be counted by the dozens at most, while every other command ship (even claymore) provides a bonus set that is useful in most situations for every ship independently of the gang numbers.
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Quote:
The more I know about humans, the more I love animals.
ain't that right. |
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Diesel47
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Posted - 2010.12.22 15:00:00 -
[21]
Edited by: Diesel47 on 22/12/2010 15:00:57
Rail.... fail on a vulture.
You can get better results with heavies if you don't care about missile flight time.
Better DPS to longer range... Damage selection, much easier to fit the warefare links without mods and still have a massive tank.
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raukosen
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Posted - 2010.12.22 15:02:00 -
[22]
Weapons on a Vulture is just for km whoring, nothing else
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Ogogov
Gallente
Test Alliance Please Ignore
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Posted - 2010.12.22 15:41:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Omara Otawan
Why all the hate for the poor Astarte? It does the shield gank part pretty good, integrates into shield fleets just as good as the Sleipnir.
Sure its 200m/s slower, aligns a tad bit slower, but then again its got the much better damage projection.
And its cheaper than most HACs, so not exactly a drama losing one.
Every time someone says "shield gank" on a Hyperion/Brutix/Astarte etc., I throw up a little in my mouth. Lose the worthless active armor tank bonus and give it something worthwhile for crying out loud.
The Eos and Astarte can be had in Jita for less than the cost of some HACs, that is how terrible they both are. Information warfare links might have some utility if two of them didn't exclusively bonus EWAR - and since the Sensor Damp nerf, there's no point in mounting EWAR on a gallente ship.
We now have the hilarious situation of the Gallente command ships being better when paired with Falcons, Rooks and Scorpions. LOL.
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Hot Tubes
Sardaukar Merc Guild
General Tso's Alliance
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Posted - 2010.12.22 17:00:00 -
[24]
Eos sucks, it's true.
When thinking what boneruses its command modules should give I once thought damage increasing ones, but then that would be OP if just a broad damage increase.
Instead, maybe a boost to tracking for one module, a boost to drone dps for another (not fighters/bombers), and a base speed (but not agility) increase for the other.
Would help Gallente out a little anyway.
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Omara Otawan
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Posted - 2010.12.22 20:00:00 -
[25]
Edited by: Omara Otawan on 22/12/2010 20:03:48
Originally by: Grimpak
Originally by: Omara Otawan
(Astarte vs Sleipnir)but then again its got the much better damage projection.
it has? last time I saw, blasters are kinda in the bottom layer of the food chain, as far as range is concerned, unless it's a rail astarte...
The Astarte gets a falloff bonus to its blasters. Fitting dual TEs (like sleipnirs typically do) paired with its much better raw damage output, it outperforms the Sleipnir up to disruptor range.
Of course, that doesnt work with armor tank at all, since you either dont have the grid to make the most of the bonus using neutrons, dont have the slots for the weapon upgrades, or both.
Quote:
Every time someone says "shield gank" on a Hyperion/Brutix/Astarte etc., I throw up a little in my mouth. Lose the worthless active armor tank bonus and give it something worthwhile for crying out loud.
On the Hype I disagree, it actually works decently as an active repped ship. True on the Brutix and Astarte though, the bonus is a total waste these days.
The Brutix would do so much better with a little PG increase and a falloff bonus, the Astarte could use a little more PG as well and the active tank bonus switched for something useful, tracking would be the rage, even a MWD cap bonus tbh.
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Major Sackrash
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Posted - 2010.12.22 20:34:00 -
[26]
Edited by: Major Sackrash on 22/12/2010 20:40:29
I've flown the Astarte and Sleipnir both with top notch skills and I have to say it's a close call.
Sleipnir -
1000 dps out to 20km
Excellent tracking
Can choose damage type
Can dictate range/kite the enemy
Good buffer tank
Amazing Active tank
Not prone to being neuted
Astarte -
Melt's most anything with 1300 dps but suffers out of web range
Good tracking
Bound to thermal or kinetic damage output
Has to get into web range/takes time
Flimsy buffer tank
Decent Active tank
No cap, no guns
I choose the Sleipnir, unless the Astarte is gank fit your doing just as much damage as him with more tracking and better range. If god forbid your active tanking your Sleipnir you can just tank him til he's out of cap boosters if you like before annihilating him. Astarte used to rule the roost but now with everyone using neuts and so many people nano'd, it's just obsolete and asking for a spanking.
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Zhim'Fufu
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Posted - 2010.12.22 20:59:00 -
[27]
Prophecy if you are on a budget but still want an armour link for your bs or bc gang. Nearly 190k ehp with gang bonus along with slot 2~5 lg slave and the relevant 3% hardwires. Plus it has a neat 1000 point alpha if in range which is about 15km effective. All in all its about the only thing the proph is good at anymore.
CCP needs to turn it into a ham boat tbh to give future damnation pilots something to fly while they grind leadership and other boring skills.
[Prophecy, Budget Warfare Link]
1600mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I
1600mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I
800mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I
Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II
Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II
Damage Control II
Warp Disruptor II
Sensor Booster II, Scan Resolution <-- or some ewar or eccm whatever.
10MN MicroWarpdrive II
280mm Howitzer Artillery II, Republic Fleet EMP S
280mm Howitzer Artillery II, Republic Fleet EMP S
280mm Howitzer Artillery II, Republic Fleet EMP S
280mm Howitzer Artillery II, Republic Fleet EMP S
280mm Howitzer Artillery II, Republic Fleet EMP S
280mm Howitzer Artillery II, Republic Fleet EMP S
Armored Warfare Link - Passive Defense
Medium Trimark Armor Pump I
Medium Trimark Armor Pump I
Medium Trimark Armor Pump I
Hornet EC-300 x5
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Major Sackrash
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Posted - 2010.12.22 21:03:00 -
[28]
Originally by: Zhim'Fufu
Stuff...
Is the Prophecy a command ship?
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Krimson Goddess
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Posted - 2010.12.22 21:45:00 -
[29]
Give the eos its deserved 125 bandwidth(common even the ishtar has it) and change the rep bonus to a tracking bonus,
For the astarte, give it a bit more armor hp and change the rep bonus to a tracking.
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Noisrevbus
Caldari
Breams Gone Wild
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Posted - 2010.12.22 22:17:00 -
[30]
Since these threads keep popping up i'll recycle my comments.
You shouldn't only look at the CS, but at the CS in relation to the Tech III Cruisers usurping their roles.
1. Links
Damnation: often better than the Legion, which becomes an option first when you set it up to avoid grid, as you tend to want all three links for the respective gangs.
Vulture: similar to the Damnation with the difference that there are less shield-oriented gangs that want all three of your links, and your ship is more limited within itself. Usually usurped by off-grid Tengus at smaller gang sizes than Legion replace Damnation. Many 'shield' gangs favour speed and distance before shield, and rarely rely on remoting with staying power in the same sense that armor gangs do (ie., you don't use Scimis to tank, more so to maintain during critical escape).
Claymore: similar to the Vulture, as all other ships in your nano-gang will either travel at 2km/s+ or cloak. The Claymore is still reasonably fast from a size-threat perspective (ie., faster than other ships of similar size) when boosted by it's own links. The Loki is more likely to replace the Claymore either in fast setups or cloaky setups, even at small gang sizes, within it's respective gangs. One important bit is that the gangs utilizing the bonuses (fast, ranged) rarely rely on other gang bonuses as much, which allow you to bracket up several Loki boosters if need be.
Eos: it's a question of simple logic. If you have a conventional gang the only link of some interest to you would be the ECCM one. The links overall provide bonuses for Recon ships, and once you have a gang with enough Recons to warrant a gang-booster for links it's likely that your entire gang is cloaky. So with just one link or a cloaky gang, there's never any reason to bring the tame Eos over the awesome Proteus - even if you want the links.
2. Tackle, Tank, Gank
Absolution: the margin between the Absolution and Legion is so small that the only time the price difference can be justified is when your gang specialize so much that you really want the extra nudge over the Absolution (sig, mobility) or Zealot (overall performance) with the Legion.
Nighthawk: the Tengu quickly replace the Nighthawk much due to the fitting issues the Nighthawk has. On top of that the Tengu more or less obsolete the full line of other Caldari missile boats, due to poor fitting options and questionable ship bonuses. The Tengu simply have so much variety, and the option to avoid the poor choices you will inherit in most of the other ships, save the Drake.
Sleipnir: the Loki can obviously do alot of things that the Sleipnir can't, but best at being a Sleipnir (tank, gank, reasonable mobility) is the Sleipnir - which makes it a fairly unique ship in this line-up. The Loki can't really compete with the Sleipnir in the moderate-gank boat department.
Astarte: apart from similar slot-allocation and fitting issues to the Nighthawk, you'll have to factor in the awesome Proteus once again. There is a trend here where Amarr at one extreme have such good CS and a slightly less impressive Tech III, that the differences between the ships drive the Legion to nische; and Gallente have trouble finding a place for their CS - but also have an incredibly impressive Tech III in the Proteus (which outtanks the CS, outganks the CS, outlinks the CS; and can sport bonused tackle ontop of that which blends in very nicely with it's roles).
In terms of in-racial options: Legion replace little to no ships, Tengu replace few ships, Loki replace some ships and Proteus replace alot of ships.
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