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Phig Neutron
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Posted - 2010.12.22 20:22:00 -
[1]
Having played for more than three years, I think it's high time I started learning how to make ISK on a big scale. I remember several months ago there were a series of self-challenges along the lines of "How quickly can I go from a brand new character with 5000isk to a billionaire?" and I was able to learn a lot about trading from following their exploits and the advice that this forum gave them.
So here's my self challenge:
1. I'll start with an unskilled character and 5 million ISK. 2. My target is 5 billion ISK. 3. I'm not opposed to hauling cargo but I'll only fly shuttles and/or noobships. 4. I'll only play the markets when I'm at the office and should be working. Evenings are for PVP on my main (Joe Starbreaker).
I'll update you on my progress (or failure) in this thread as long as the experiment goes on. Any advice on how to get started would be appreciated!
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Euphoriiia
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Posted - 2010.12.22 20:37:00 -
[2]
I'm on the same journey you are, i started 5 days ago with 250k isk, and through pure daytrading i've managed to push myself up to around 75m in total(mods,escrow,wallet), also on a no-skill character.
Anyways good luck
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Chesty McJubblies
Gallente Center for Advanced Studies
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Posted - 2010.12.22 20:49:00 -
[3]
k
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Phig Neutron
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Posted - 2010.12.22 20:59:00 -
[4]
Lesson #1 learned: Don't spend so much of your starting capital that you can't afford broker fees to list the items! I bought some stuff to sell, but could only afford to list a couple of units. Once those sell, I can list the rest. Duh!
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Agrapena
Gallente StoneDogS Black Star Alliance
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Posted - 2010.12.22 21:50:00 -
[5]
I done the same with a starter character, but with the original 5k and not training any skills up. Only been logging on it twice a week and so far I`ve got to 16 million isk...... All with Small amounts of ammo and PI materials to start then on to modules.
If I wasn`t to busy with my other accounts i`d probably develop this one into a full blown trader, Its a good way to learn how the basic market works. Then I guess you can take it from there.....
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Rend Darkhand
The Clearwater Society
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Posted - 2010.12.22 22:33:00 -
[6]
Good luck =)
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Phig Neutron
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Posted - 2010.12.22 22:35:00 -
[7]
Update: Bought roughly 5 million ISK worth of stuff, and now have it up on sell orders for more than twice that much.
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Ildryn
do you -Mostly Harmless-
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Posted - 2010.12.22 23:37:00 -
[8]
I think the original self challenges started with 5k and it was to get to 1 billion within a short amount of time without ever leaving jita once.
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Phig Neutron
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Posted - 2010.12.23 00:16:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Ildryn I think the original self challenges started with 5k and it was to get to 1 billion within a short amount of time without ever leaving jita once.
I'm sure that was fun for them. However, my goals are to learn something and to make some money, not to copy or compete with someone else's self-challenge. If I want to do that, I'll play Nethack as a vegetarian atheist.
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Dethmourne Silvermane
Gallente Horrible Labs SRS.
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Posted - 2010.12.23 01:07:00 -
[10]
KoL as an Oxygenarian is more amusing.
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Patri Andari
Caldari Thukker Tribe Antiquities Importer
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Posted - 2010.12.23 01:22:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Phig Neutron
Originally by: Ildryn I think the original self challenges started with 5k and it was to get to 1 billion within a short amount of time without ever leaving jita once.
I'm sure that was fun for them. However, my goals are to learn something and to make some money, not to copy or compete with someone else's self-challenge. If I want to do that, I'll play Nethack as a vegetarian atheist.
Someone forgot this was a PVP game.
Patri
I'll Roshambo You For That Titan! |
Serene Python
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Posted - 2010.12.23 02:22:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Phig Neutron
Originally by: Ildryn I think the original self challenges started with 5k and it was to get to 1 billion within a short amount of time without ever leaving jita once.
I'm sure that was fun for them. However, my goals are to learn something and to make some money, not to copy or compete with someone else's self-challenge. If I want to do that, I'll play Nethack as a vegetarian atheist.
Would you happen to also choose to be a barbarian?
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Joe Starbreaker
M. Corp
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Posted - 2010.12.23 03:14:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Serene Python
Originally by: Phig Neutron
Originally by: Ildryn I think the original self challenges started with 5k and it was to get to 1 billion within a short amount of time without ever leaving jita once.
I'm sure that was fun for them. However, my goals are to learn something and to make some money, not to copy or compete with someone else's self-challenge. If I want to do that, I'll play Nethack as a vegetarian atheist.
Would you happen to also choose to be a barbarian?
I already have four ascensions under my belt, in order: a Monk, a Tourist, a Valkyrie, a Knight. Barbarian is said to be one of the easiest classes. To make it really challenging, I'd play a Healer or Priest.
...
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Phig Neutron
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Posted - 2010.12.23 16:17:00 -
[14]
Day 1 went pretty well, I tripled my ISK and have now just about 15 million. I had a hunch at the start of the day that the ORE Industrial skillbook would sell well, and indeed it did. I picked up three copies with my initial capital for about 1.4mil NPC price and sold them for 1.6mil in Jita. They sold in under an hour, so I repeated this throughout the day. When you have only 5 order slots, trading in things that move quickly is important!
Funny enough, after buying the initial skillbooks, about 10% of my capital was left, so I just bought a bunch (18) of the Minmatar Frigate skillbook. It was low in cost but sold for ten times NPC value in Jita, and all of them moved within 24 hours. So that 10% of starting capital returned just about the same amount as the other 90% that I invested in ORE Industrial. Both of those deals are still available, but I realize that they won't scale up... I can't make people buy more than 18 Minmatar Frigate books per day no matter how much I liked the 900% return.
Next I'm going to look into deals with blueprint trading.
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Devedse
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Posted - 2010.12.23 19:57:00 -
[15]
I spoke with Phig Neutron through eve-mail and since I've never done anything with the market this seemed like an oppurtunity to me to earn some money and learn how this stuff all works :).
What I did today was put up a buy order for some t2 modules only to find out that I was being undercut by 0.01 isk half an hour later, I'm currently trying to find out how to cancel an order and then re-undercut them :>
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Kalis Vontall
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Posted - 2010.12.23 20:06:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Devedse I'm currently trying to find out how to cancel an order and then re-undercut them :>
Don't cancel. If you return to the station in which this order is set and open your wallet or your market page you will find a tab called orders. Right click your buy order and select "Modify Order". This will allow you to change the price without canceling. If you train the skill "Daytrading" you will be able to modify the order from many jumps away.
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Devedse
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Posted - 2010.12.23 20:13:00 -
[17]
Ah thanx for that mate :D, didn't know that.
I just bought my first items and put some sell orders up for them.
I'm wondering if they will sell soon ^^
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Phig Neutron
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Posted - 2010.12.23 20:48:00 -
[18]
Found some old threads with similar self-challenges, for reading in spare time:
Bouncer Ricdic's 2008 megathread
Cogwheel's reply to Bouncer Ricdic
Maestro Del'Tirith's 2008 self-challenge
Stealing Honest in may 2009
Darien Rothschild in December 2009
Get Paid and several other challengers in April 2010
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Phig Neutron
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Posted - 2010.12.23 20:52:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Devedse What I did today was put up a buy order for some t2 modules only to find out that I was being undercut by 0.01 isk half an hour later, I'm currently trying to find out how to cancel an order and then re-undercut them :>
Good luck! I started with skillbooks to save time: Because the minimum prices of these goods are set by NPCs, you can buy them instantaneously instead of using your own BUY order. I could skip the "buy low" step and just move right on to "sell high".
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Alec Freeman
Minmatar Adventurers Matari Visionary Coalition
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Posted - 2010.12.24 05:36:00 -
[20]
Bah. I need to get myself some experiance in the market. I always see people getting insane amounts per day just from buying and selling in jita. Would love the ability to invest my 300m missionrunning capital and make something of it
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Devedse
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Posted - 2010.12.24 06:44:00 -
[21]
Hey all,
Tonight I sold 2 modules giving me about 200k profit, it isn't much but as a start I'm okay with it. I re-undercut the orders just yet and we'll see if we're going to sell some more today :).
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Joe Starbreaker
M. Corp
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Posted - 2010.12.24 07:16:00 -
[22]
Edited by: Joe Starbreaker on 24/12/2010 07:16:18 My day 2 has been less dramatic than day 1, only increasing my NAV by about 1/3. Too lazy to research the blueprint opportunities, I just identified a couple of other skillbooks that sell in Jita for about a 20% markup, like the ones I was trading yesterday. I invested all of my capital in these, and turned it all over about one and a half times. Overnight I may turn it all over again, leaving me with about 23 million (from just under 15 mil at the beginning of the day).
20% markups are fine as long as I can continue finding items that'll move fast enough so I can earn that level of returns at least a couple times a day. Since I'm not training any skills for at least another week (main is finishing Battleship V), I only have 5 trade slots, so I think I need to be trading smaller quantities of more valuable items.
(Oops posted with main. This is Phig Neutron.)
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Devedse
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Posted - 2010.12.24 07:38:00 -
[23]
Hey guys, I got a question:
How do you find goods that move quick? I thought, let's do some miner II's since they are needed quite much, when I looked in the table I saw they sell about 400 a day. But the process of selling them isn't going as fast as I expected. Only sold one so far, am I overlooking something?
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Liberty Eternal
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Posted - 2010.12.24 08:11:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Devedse Hey guys, I got a question:
How do you find goods that move quick? I thought, let's do some miner II's since they are needed quite much, when I looked in the table I saw they sell about 400 a day. But the process of selling them isn't going as fast as I expected. Only sold one so far, am I overlooking something?
The 400 trade will be for the entire region. Most of that trade will go through the busiest station/s in the region, so you will need to make sure you put your goods up for sale in a busy station.
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Jun Lin
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Posted - 2010.12.24 08:19:00 -
[25]
GL Buddy
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Serene Python
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Posted - 2010.12.24 08:21:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Devedse Hey guys, I got a question:
How do you find goods that move quick? I thought, let's do some miner II's since they are needed quite much, when I looked in the table I saw they sell about 400 a day. But the process of selling them isn't going as fast as I expected. Only sold one so far, am I overlooking something?
I think you're over looking just how many traders, manufacturers and cheap pilots(yes I said it, CHEAP!) are competing there. Traders already know the tech 2 market is good for simply station trading in a lot of cases, manufacturers know it's good for making good turn overs if they're doing the right items, and cheap pilots are willing to wait for their ships modules. My own opinion here but unless you got all day to sit there checking and updating, leave the tech 2 market.
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Devedse
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Posted - 2010.12.24 08:33:00 -
[27]
I've also found this thread to be pretty interesting:
http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1359678
To bad I don't have any way to jump items into lowsec yet, but it might be a nice way to make some money without having to compete with other traders to much.
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So Sensational
GREY COUNCIL Nulli Secunda
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Posted - 2010.12.24 17:45:00 -
[28]
I too want to get into station trading, with the learning skill reimbursement I now have an alt that has level 4 in everything but tycoon and wholesale and around 500 mil to start with. I just don't know where to begin
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Phig Neutron
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Posted - 2010.12.24 17:57:00 -
[29]
Originally by: Devedse Hey guys, I got a question:
How do you find goods that move quick? I thought, let's do some miner II's since they are needed quite much, when I looked in the table I saw they sell about 400 a day. But the process of selling them isn't going as fast as I expected. Only sold one so far, am I overlooking something?
For me it was in-game knowledge. I thought to myself, who buys skillbooks in Jita? Not the new player who's learning things for the first time. In fact, it's more like experienced players who want to skill up for something new (Noctis) or who want to train an alt for some secondary, not-originally-intended role. That's how I figured ORE Industrial would sell frequently at Jita, and Minmatar Frigate (every carebear who wants to learn PVP starts with Rifters). Some other suggestions might be Interceptors (was selling this skillbook yesterday), Interdictors, Mining Barges, Salvaging, and other skills you're likely to train your alt with.
I've hit kind of a plateau with the skillbook trading, which is why I don't mind telling you which ones I was trading. I've decided to try a bit of station-flipping (buy from buy order, sell to sell order) which I have to admit, I think is the lamest way of making ISK. I do want to get a sense of how quickly things move, though, so I put up a buy order for a couple of ships.
Thing is, you have to think about not only how often do people buy things, but also how often do they sell them. For the item I'm trading now, SELL orders may move very quickly but BUY orders may be super slow. Jita is the kind of place where people more often buy from SELL orders than sell to BUY orders. Where will people sell stuff to my BUY orders? Perhaps mission hubs.
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Phig Neutron
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Posted - 2010.12.24 18:00:00 -
[30]
PS: Does anybody else think that I look like a Simpsons character?
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