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Linna Excel
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Posted - 2010.12.22 23:30:00 -
[1]
I was just thinking. Rapid fire increases your RoF, but it also increases your cap use. So if you max rapid fire and have 4 blasters/lasers you'll have a cap drain equivalent to 5 weapons. Projectile users and most missile users don't have to worry about cap drain associated with RoF increase.
So should I intentionally not train Rapid Fire beyond 2 or 3? I know there's controlled bursts, but it's bonus is canceled out by rapid fire.
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Ildryn
do you -Mostly Harmless-
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Posted - 2010.12.22 23:34:00 -
[2]
There has been some debate about that.
It is really up to you. Some people prefer cap stable set ups and some prefer dps. And the bonus is not canceled out. It is still there.
Use EFT and figure out what your end game is for gunnery. You may find it is worth training.
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Seraph Castillon
Gallente
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Posted - 2010.12.23 00:03:00 -
[3]
You could also not fit any weapons. Then they won't use cap ...
Your logic is wrong (or rather irrelevant) you fit weapons to do damage, you train rapid fire to do more damage. The extra cap use that comes with that you compensate through skills, mods, rigs ... depending on the situation.
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Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
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Posted - 2010.12.23 00:34:00 -
[4]
No. It's good for them. It lets them do more damage faster. Originally by: Linna Excel I know there's controlled bursts, but it's bonus is canceled out by rapid fire.
àand that's why you train it: to cancel out the side-effects of Rapid Firing. ùùù ôIf you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡à you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.ö ù Karath Piki |
RavenPaine
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Posted - 2010.12.23 01:43:00 -
[5]
"Cap Stable" should be used as a guideline, but not a requirement for fitting. Don't get stuck in the "I have to be cap stable !" trap.
You never want to use these statements. "I couldn't kill him, but I was cap stable" or "My medium repper was on full time. I died, but I was cap stable."
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Kobe Sun
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Posted - 2010.12.23 03:10:00 -
[6]
I have a beam paladin with perfect gunnery and energy skills. the game says I got 3min worth of energy. 3min doesn't seem like much but i've never had a problem running out of cap. (Cap might be risky if you clear Recon Pt1 in the wrong order or not fast enough.) Shooting faster means the rats die faster and you can move onto the next mission faster. |
Breaker77
Gallente Reclamation Industries
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Posted - 2010.12.23 03:11:00 -
[7]
Originally by: RavenPaine "Cap Stable" should be used as a guideline, but not a requirement for fitting. Don't get stuck in the "I have to be cap stable !" trap.
This pretty much.
Being cap stable doesn't matter if you can't put out enough damage to kill them before they kill you.
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Artemis Rose
Clandestine Vector
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Posted - 2010.12.23 09:40:00 -
[8]
Absolutely not
The amount of damage you gain from the ROF bonuses is much much better than using cap. You can look at it "If I deal more damage and kill the enemies quicker, I don't have to tank as much damage"
*** Currently Playing: Trolls from Outer Space Current Equipment: VISAcard chain mail, +2 Amulet of Epic Whine, Self Banstick +2 WTB: +666 E-peen killboard stats |
Linna Excel
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Posted - 2010.12.23 17:42:00 -
[9]
Okay, I think I get what y'all are saying: damage is better than cap (at least to a degree).
Originally by: Tippia No. It's good for them. It lets them do more damage faster. Originally by: Linna Excel I know there's controlled bursts, but it's bonus is canceled out by rapid fire.
àand that's why you train it: to cancel out the side-effects of Rapid Firing.
I can see that argument, but I can also see the counter argument: you have to train another skill to break even with a projectile/missile user and afterwards you don't get any additional cap benefit.
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Co'chese
Hedion University
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Posted - 2010.12.23 18:13:00 -
[10]
if you are using blasters then cap stability is not necessary. blasters are useless outside of pvp and anybody that pvps knows dps>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>cap stability
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Darius Brinn
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Posted - 2010.12.23 18:42:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Linna Excel
I can see that argument, but I can also see the counter argument: you have to train another skill to break even with a projectile/missile user and afterwards you don't get any additional cap benefit.
The ultimate cap stability is melting the other bugger's face in ten seconds.
I agree that Projectiles have much better damage output (DPS which can be applied effectively), they use no cap, and they have selectable damages and amazing alpha, but blasters...uh...I mean, blasters...ehem...
...if you ever get caught by a Megathron, at its optimal, while scrambled and triple webbed, you will be SORRY! Take that, you stupidly useful Projectiles!
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Somal Thunder
Test Alliance Please Ignore
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Posted - 2010.12.25 18:41:00 -
[12]
Just deactivate your guns for 1 second if you're running out of cap and stop acting like a *****.
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Sjugar
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Posted - 2010.12.26 14:47:00 -
[13]
Not training rapid firing is stupid. With it you can kill your enemies faster, that cancels the "negative" impact of a higher cap-drain.
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Gryganne
Gallente Rockhound Inc.
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Posted - 2010.12.26 18:17:00 -
[14]
Edited by: Gryganne on 26/12/2010 18:18:20 Isn't the answer here absurdly obvious? With Rapid Fire trained to V, you can always choose to take a gun off of your fit if you're worried about cap, and you still maintain the same DPS as you would have had with the extra gun and no Rapid Fire skill. Yet, you still have the option to fit that gun for the increased DPS given that you have the skill trained. So the skill should be thought of as giving you extra fitting options while in no way detracting from your setup. If you're so worried about cap that you decide not to fit a gun in one of the gun slots, Rapid Fire just freed up a high slot for you.
If there has been any debate about this topic, it has happened among people who've made a fundamental oversight. Rapid fire V is just full of win all the way around.
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Barrak
Caldari Caldari Provisions
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Posted - 2010.12.30 12:27:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Linna Excel I was just thinking. Rapid fire increases your RoF, but it also increases your cap use. So if you max rapid fire and have 4 blasters/lasers you'll have a cap drain equivalent to 5 weapons. Projectile users and most missile users don't have to worry about cap drain associated with RoF increase.
So should I intentionally not train Rapid Fire beyond 2 or 3? I know there's controlled bursts, but it's bonus is canceled out by rapid fire.
I think you may have misread the description on 'Controlled Bursts'. It doesn't imply what it says, it doesn't reduce the fiting rate, it reduces the cap needed to fire those weapons.
So, in reality, you probably get more firepower for roughly the same cap cost (may work out slightly differently). So, based on that, why wouldn't you want it?
Use something like EFT to establish the differnce and if you feel that its not a priority right now based on the time it takes to learn the skills (though L3's really dont take that long), then learn some of the other skills instead that will indirectly affect your firepower, such as tracking, optimal range etc etc........
Regards
Barrak
==================================================
Just because you can fly the ship, it doesn't mean you can fly the ship |
Loerich
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Posted - 2010.12.30 15:27:00 -
[16]
There is NO reason not to train up rapid firing.
If you cap out because of rapid firing, then you were going to cap out anyway, or you were going to die, or both.
Dealing more damage quickly means that you kill the target faster (duh), which means you do not need to tank any more (so no cap use from active tank modules), and, bonus, you can safely stop firing, thus saving cap.
Pro-tip: wrecks are cap stable.
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Zxenis
Caldari Deep Core Mining Inc.
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Posted - 2010.12.30 16:40:00 -
[17]
For the most part you want to do the most damage in the shortest amount of time as you are trying to overcome your opponents ability to repair. If you can turn the damage of 4 weapons into the equivalent of 5, thats a big plus on your side.
If an injury has to be done to a man it should be so severe that his vengeance need not be feared. Niccolo Machiavelli (1469 - 1527)
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Amarrina Alticus
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Posted - 2010.12.30 16:54:00 -
[18]
More importantly...
Don't train "Rapid Fire" because it will cause you to use more ammo, thus negatively impacting the ISK in you wallet... And this is even worse, because there is no skill that will allow you to prevent the ammo usage!!!
If you don't want to train it, don't. The rest of us will do so, and if we ever come face to face in PvP, you will explode long before I run out of capacitor!
Good luck!
.
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Sazkyen
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Posted - 2010.12.30 17:00:00 -
[19]
It is true that not being able to switch back to lower levels in certain skills is strange. E.g., I'm able to boost my firing rate by 25% but I can't boost it by 20%...
How come I can't apply a smaller bonus????
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Loerich
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Posted - 2010.12.30 17:37:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Amarrina Alticus More importantly...
Don't train "Rapid Fire" because it will cause you to use more ammo, thus negatively impacting the ISK in you wallet... And this is even worse, because there is no skill that will allow you to prevent the ammo usage!!!
Amusingly, by applying the DPS faster, you're reducing the time they have to rep, thus meaning you have to do less total damage, saving ammo.
Originally by: Sazkyen
It is true that not being able to switch back to lower levels in certain skills is strange. E.g., I'm able to boost my firing rate by 25% but I can't boost it by 20%...
How come I can't apply a smaller bonus????
Turn off module. Wait variable amount of time. Turn on module.
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Dhaul
Agent-Orange Nabaal Syndicate
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Posted - 2010.12.30 17:47:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Co'chese if you are using blasters then cap stability is not necessary. blasters are useless outside of pvp and anybody that pvps knows dps>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>cap stability
I hope you aren't implying blasters are useful in PVP because...they aren't.
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Zhilia Mann
Tide Way Out Productions
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Posted - 2010.12.30 22:05:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Dhaul
Originally by: Co'chese if you are using blasters then cap stability is not necessary. blasters are useless outside of pvp and anybody that pvps knows dps>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>cap stability
I hope you aren't implying blasters are useful in PVP because...they aren't.
I'm pretty sure my Daredevil is going to annihilate Blood-Stained Stars next time I run it. Possibly even faster than the Dramiel I took last time or the Slicer before that....
As for general usefulness in missions: well no, of course not.
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Tom Fulleride
Caldari State War Academy
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Posted - 2011.01.01 02:22:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Dhaul
Originally by: Co'chese if you are using blasters then cap stability is not necessary. blasters are useless outside of pvp and anybody that pvps knows dps>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>cap stability
I hope you aren't implying blasters are useful in PVP because...they aren't.
1/10
Blasters are useful for PVP, quit your whining and be constructive about balance tweaks.
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Trebor Whettam
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Posted - 2011.01.03 16:31:00 -
[24]
Although this skill slightly increases the maximum cap draw rate of your guns, it doesn't decrease their cap efficiency. If you desperately need to reduce the cap draw of your guns, you can simply not fire them for a brief period. For a given number of volleys, your cap usage is unaffected by this skill.
The debate is more meaningful with the Repair Systems skill, since a cap-stable tank actually expects to run the repper constantly. Guns are on-and-off modules whether you like it or not.
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Robert Caldera
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Posted - 2011.01.04 07:32:00 -
[25]
Edited by: Robert Caldera on 04/01/2011 07:32:40
if your cap runs empty, just stop firing. Fact is this skill boosts your DPS, which is crucial most times. Considerations about not skilling a dps skill just because of cap issues is ridiculous tbh.
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Moonmonkey
Amarr Orange Clover
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Posted - 2011.01.04 14:02:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Linna Excel I was just thinking. Rapid fire increases your RoF, but it also increases your cap use. So if you max rapid fire and have 4 blasters/lasers you'll have a cap drain equivalent to 5 weapons. Projectile users and most missile users don't have to worry about cap drain associated with RoF increase.
So should I intentionally not train Rapid Fire beyond 2 or 3? I know there's controlled bursts, but it's bonus is canceled out by rapid fire.
Or activate one weapon less to stay cap stable and keep the option of more DPS should you need it.
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Mashie Saldana
Minmatar Veto Corp
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Posted - 2011.01.04 14:51:00 -
[27]
Originally by: Robert Caldera Considerations about not skilling a dps skill just because of cap issues is ridiculous tbh.
Hey, I heard it was a bad idea to train repair systems to a high level as well due to cap usage.
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Ravenal
The Fated E.Y
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Posted - 2011.01.04 23:30:00 -
[28]
No.
Why? Because you can solve your cap problems by either training the cap skills or fitting cap mods/rigs/hardwirings/injection/remote energy/pause shooting if you need.
All in all, it's a skill that DOES IMPORTANT STUFF... please go whine about skills that do nothing but still require you to train as prereqs. .
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