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Zarutha
Amarr The Night Crew
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Posted - 2010.12.25 18:56:00 -
[1]
Edited by: Zarutha on 25/12/2010 19:03:17 Edited by: Zarutha on 25/12/2010 19:01:48 What instead of Concord being all knowing when someone gets fired upon, instead needs to be called by the player? Imagine if a pop up window appeared when someone opens fire on you stating "you are being fired upon, do you wish to notify concord for assistance?". This would put the responsibility on the player.
Would this help with afk players / miners and possibly bots? I think this would make empire a hell of a lot more interesting place to be.
Any thoughts on why this would or wouldn't work?
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Chribba
Otherworld Enterprises Otherworld Empire
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Posted - 2010.12.25 18:57:00 -
[2]
Originally by: Zarutha
Umm...
Secure 3rd party service | my in-game channel 'Holy Veldspar' |
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Myxx
Risen Angels
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Posted - 2010.12.25 18:57:00 -
[3]
so this is what the logs look like.. --
Originally by: CCP Explorer (and if you guys would also stop using Drakes it would be really appreciated, kthxbye).
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Zarutha
Amarr The Night Crew
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Posted - 2010.12.25 19:05:00 -
[4]
Originally by: Chribba
Originally by: Zarutha
Umm...
Sorry Chribba, I mistakenly posted it, then started editing it. It's updated now.
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Myxx
Risen Angels
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Posted - 2010.12.25 19:07:00 -
[5]
well, thats an interesting idea, after the edit... --
Originally by: CCP Explorer (and if you guys would also stop using Drakes it would be really appreciated, kthxbye).
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00383988003
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Posted - 2010.12.25 19:08:00 -
[6]
Edited by: 00383988003 on 25/12/2010 19:09:26 Don't shoot me, I'm using a stupid iPad! It sucks for posting. Hence all the edits.
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Herr Wilkus
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Posted - 2010.12.25 19:11:00 -
[7]
Huh. Its either brilliant or the other thing. But I like the way you think.
Perhaps you could even make Concord response time based on how long it takes for the victim to respond to the attack.
A player that is attentive and at the keyboard would have a near instantaneous Concord response, regardless of system security status - the semi attentive players are more likely to lose their ships, and for those who are botting or are completely AFK, the gankers get away entirely.
Sounds like a win to me - punishing the inattentive and the cheaters, rewarding those who are actually playing.
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McRoll
Minmatar The Legion of Darkness
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Posted - 2010.12.25 19:14:00 -
[8]
Edited by: McRoll on 25/12/2010 19:14:51 This would kill mining because noone in his right mind mines actively and is the whole time aware what happens (maybe except Chribba I dont know)
Also, many people let their haulers and freighters fly on autopilot. With your change they would be constantly shot down. One could only implement your proposal if every activity in space would make fun and be played actively but Eve is not designed that way. Please ensure your signature is within the allowed size of 400 x 120 pixels with a maximum file size of 24,000 bytes. Navigator |
Albetta
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Posted - 2010.12.25 19:15:00 -
[9]
YES!
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Neesa Corrinne
Stimulus Rote Kapelle
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Posted - 2010.12.25 19:19:00 -
[10]
Edited by: Neesa Corrinne on 25/12/2010 19:19:28 Add to this a low slot "emergency transponder" module that will reply "yes" for you if you just want to haul something afk, then it sounds great.
Then it becomes a tradeoff. More cargo room or immediate concord response? ======================================
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CCP Zymurgist
Gallente C C P
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Posted - 2010.12.25 19:19:00 -
[11]
Moved from General Discussion.
Zymurgist Community Representative CCP Hf, EVE Online Contact Us |
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Herr Wilkus
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Posted - 2010.12.25 19:25:00 -
[12]
Well, of course it punishes AFKers. You want to go AFK, you dock up or cloak.
Players who are autopiloting while watching movies, etc...can easily turn on their sound and have an audio cue if they are being attacked. Sure it might take them a few seconds to get to the keyboard, switch clients, etc....but the gankers will be punished.
Botters, or people who stepped out of the room to change a diaper, have a smoke, cook dinner are out of luck - but they just as easily can dock up, log off, or cloak, until they can be sufficiently attentive.
Personally, I think the OP should see what kind of reasonable input appears in the first page or two, then prepare a post in Assembly Hall Forum.
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Zarutha
Amarr The Night Crew
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Posted - 2010.12.25 19:26:00 -
[13]
It could also be like calling 911 in the states - sometimes they come, sometimes they don't lol.
Just a note, im a carebear miner, I would mine in empire and leave my computer whenever wanted, do laundry, eat dinner, etc. It was incredibly boring. Then I started mining in WH space and the element of danger made it so much more fun!
I'm not asking for empire to be like 0.0, lowsec, or WH space, but if it did have a little more danger, it would would make the game better. (If CCP is worried about new players, they could leave the Concord security in the starter systems the way it is now.)
Plus I know bots when I see em, and empire space promotes it! I'm so tired of it, I wish CCP would put an end to macro miners.
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Fuzz McBitch
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Posted - 2010.12.25 19:29:00 -
[14]
Pop!
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shady trader
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Posted - 2010.12.25 19:33:00 -
[15]
While in some ways I like the idea. It will have no effect on Bots, since they will be updated to call for help within days of this going live.
I think the problem will be with a pop up, if it grabs focus it will interfere with that the player is doing. So if you set the default answer to no and the player is calling for aid in corp chat they could cancel it by accident.
Having a big red panic button pop up on the interface would be the way to go, so player can avoid calling in the hit squad if they are accidentally attacked by a friend who using their guns instead of the remote repairers. Macrointel, the place were the nature order of the universe does not hold sway. Pirates and ore thief's are congratulated by carebears for the actions. |
Kalle Demos
Amarr Hysteria Nexus
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Posted - 2010.12.25 19:35:00 -
[16]
Well it will certainly fix the freighter blobbing in Jita
Originally by: Kool StoryBro <---
Originally by: CCP Spitfire Spam post removed.
Random forum moments <0> |
Stitcher
Caldari Eve University
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Posted - 2010.12.25 19:37:00 -
[17]
I fail to see what this would add to the game besides adding yet another "Do you wish to proceed? Y/N" window. I get enough of those freaking things in my day-to-day, anything that proposes to add another one gets a big thumbs down from me. -
- Verin "Stitcher" Hakatain.
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Zarutha
Amarr The Night Crew
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Posted - 2010.12.25 19:43:00 -
[18]
It also seems more realistic with the lore - I can't see how Concord can tell if someone fires a laser anywhere in empire. Their technology can't be that advanced.
Having the player call them makes a lot more sense.
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Ehwut
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Posted - 2010.12.25 20:04:00 -
[19]
So... you basically want to be able to alpha people in high-sec and not lose your ship if they're not paying 100% attention? Kinda defeats the purpose of high-sec.
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Nika Dekaia
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Posted - 2010.12.25 20:14:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Zarutha It also seems more realistic with the lore - I can't see how Concord can tell if someone fires a laser anywhere in empire. Their technology can't be that advanced.
Having the player call them makes a lot more sense.
Sure, actually beeing at the keyboard has to have some benefits, but why have an autopilot if beeing afk will render you dead, anyway? As soon as you come out of warp at 15 kms with just a couple of millions in cargo you will most likely die instantly on any frequented highway.
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Kirsi Kirjasto
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Posted - 2010.12.25 20:31:00 -
[21]
Just because your ship (or pod) dies, doesn't mean you won't be able to trigger Concord after death.
And autopilot wouldn't be useless. A player could always minimize Eve, with the sound on, set Autopilot, and watch a movie, play on a different client, whatever.
You hear shooting, you open your client and click "Yes" to the new prompt, and the aggressor(s) get Concorded.
If you were in the other room, changing diapers, eating dinner, or whacking off - well, thats too bad. You should have docked or eaten dinner at the keyboard. Game improvement, clearly.
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Zarutha
Amarr The Night Crew
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Posted - 2010.12.25 20:56:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Nika Dekaia
Having the player call them makes a lot more sense.
Sure, actually beeing at the keyboard has to have some benefits, but why have an autopilot if beeing afk will render you dead, anyway? As soon as you come out of warp at 15 kms with just a couple of millions in cargo you will most likely die instantly on any frequented highway.
hmm, I see your point.
I guess getting rid of all the bots in empire is a much bigger issue than adding a 911 button.
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Nika Dekaia
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Posted - 2010.12.25 21:08:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Kirsi Kirjasto And autopilot wouldn't be useless. A player could always minimize Eve, with the sound on, set Autopilot, and watch a movie, play on a different client, whatever.
You hear shooting, you open your client and click "Yes" to the new prompt, and the aggressor(s) get Concorded.
AFK - Away from Keybord - not able to respond or react to whatever happens at the computer. So, yes, autopilot would be useless for AFKers. Beeing at your comp, but tabbed out/watching a movie/etc. - refered to as "semi afk".
Originally by: Kirsi Kirjasto If you were in the other room, changing diapers, eating dinner, or whacking off - well, thats too bad. You should have docked or eaten dinner at the keyboard. Game improvement, clearly.
This is the actual meaning of beeing AFK.
I'm all for making Eve bigger and boosting travel times, but making it nearly impossible to travel afk with just a couple of mils in the cargo hold is not good. Gankers do not lose much as is and with the OPs change, they would not lose anything when engaging players on autopilot at all.
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Kirsi Kirjasto
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Posted - 2010.12.25 21:54:00 -
[24]
You were asking what would be the point of having an autopilot in game? You state that if you are using it means you are dead. (This is clearly not true, as a ganker would have no idea if you were AFK or semi-AFK.) In fact, the stupidity of using the autopilot while AFK under such a system would be obvious, that people dropping out of warp at 15km would be likely be semi-AFK. In addition:
A) its irrelevant - remove the autopilot, then. The mere existence (or nonexistence of Autopilot) shouldn't have a bearing on the discussion. And WTZ is faster anyway.
B) even under the proposed system, the Autopilot wouldn't be 'useless', as it could be used in a 'semi-AFK' state as I'd illustrated.
If a player can't even be bothered to be in the room (in order to pick up audio clues of an attack) - or take the precaution of docking up or cloaking - I fail to see why they should earn a lot of sympathy.
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Nika Dekaia
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Posted - 2010.12.25 23:02:00 -
[25]
Edited by: Nika Dekaia on 25/12/2010 23:02:27
Originally by: Kirsi Kirjasto You were asking what would be the point of having an autopilot in game? You state that if you are using it means you are dead. (This is clearly not true, as a ganker would have no idea if you were AFK or semi-AFK.)
That is, in fact, true. Anyone coming in at 15 kms is about 99% afk and thus dead on any highway to a tradehub with this proposal.
Originally by: Kirsi Kirjasto In fact, the stupidity of using the autopilot while AFK under such a system would be obvious, that people dropping out of warp at 15km would be likely be semi-AFK.
Um..yes, that's my point. Using AP would be useless.
Originally by: Kirsi Kirjasto In addition:
A) its irrelevant - remove the autopilot, then. The mere existence (or nonexistence of Autopilot) shouldn't have a bearing on the discussion. And WTZ is faster anyway.
Beeing at the keybord should have perks, but in a game where traveling has a certain meaning, (should be more significant, imho) there have to be some methods of traveling afk - with some drawbacks, but nontheless. The existance of the AP has a whole lot of bearing. Can you imagine what would happen without it? Sure, trade, travel, almost anything would get a *whole* lot harder. But there has to be some balance. That's why there is AP.
Originally by: Kirsi Kirjasto B) even under the proposed system, the Autopilot wouldn't be 'useless', as it could be used in a 'semi-AFK' state as I'd illustrated.
If a player can't even be bothered to be in the room (in order to pick up audio clues of an attack) - or take the precaution of docking up or cloaking - I fail to see why they should earn a lot of sympathy.
The AP is for players beeing AFK. Tabbing in and out of game is for "semi afk players". As I said, in a universe as big as Eve, there needs to be some kid of AFK travel. It's *kinda* ballanced as is.
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Kirsi Kirjasto
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Posted - 2010.12.25 23:28:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Nika Dekaia Edited by: Nika Dekaia on 25/12/2010 23:02:27
Originally by: Kirsi Kirjasto You were asking what would be the point of having an autopilot in game? You state that if you are using it means you are dead. (This is clearly not true, as a ganker would have no idea if you were AFK or semi-AFK.)
That is, in fact, true. Anyone coming in at 15 kms is about 99% afk and thus dead on any highway to a tradehub with this proposal.
You are contracting yourself. Assumption is the proposal is adopted. First you say that 99% of everybody that comes out of warp at 15km is AFK, and thus dead. Then, you say that 'autopilot would be useless' implying that nobody would autopilot. Which is it?
Think about it: If the Concord rules were modified in this way, players would adjust their habits accordingly. You would see less autopilot use - and more WTZ flight, certainly - but those autopiloting would be FAR more likely to be 'semi-AFK', and the gankers would come to realize this.
If rules are modified, people change their behavior to adapt. I think you are failing to account for this phenomenon, but I assure you it exists.
Yes, AFK gameplay would become FAR more risky than it is currently - moving goods across empire space (or ice mining) would require more care and attention. Using autopilot would demand you are at least in the same room as the computer. But I submit that this is not a bad thing.
Trade and travel wouldn't be harder at all. It would just require you be there to observe changes in your local environment. I don't think that is asking too much, even in high-sec.
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Shadowspect
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Posted - 2010.12.26 02:40:00 -
[27]
You could also argue that if you are on-grid with a gate, or sentry guns, they would see the criminal act, and call for assistance on your behalf - thus not really changing how the mechanic works on gates, but keeping it in the belts or missions or whatever.
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Chekov Nikahd
Amarr
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Posted - 2010.12.26 03:52:00 -
[28]
Originally by: Zarutha Edited by: Zarutha on 25/12/2010 19:07:17 Edited by: Zarutha on 25/12/2010 19:03:17 Edited by: Zarutha on 25/12/2010 19:01:48 What if instead of Concord being all knowing when someone gets fired upon, needs to be called by the player? Imagine a pop up window appeared when someone opens fire on you stating "You are being fired upon, do you wish to notify concord for assistance?". This would put the responsibility on the player.
Would this help with afk players / miners and possibly bots? I think this would make empire a hell of a lot more interesting place to be.
Any thoughts on why this would or wouldn't work?
It wouldn't work if the intention is to punish botters.
At first, it would - then someone will code a macro that takes this Concord response window into consideration, and bots will respond instantly while actual players don't.
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Gemberslaafje
Vivicide
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Posted - 2010.12.26 09:58:00 -
[29]
Edited by: Gemberslaafje on 26/12/2010 09:59:09 This would be awesome for suicide gankers.
BAM. You are dead. You could've asked for CONCORD assistance but oh well, you're too late now! Sorry, not only you lost your stuff, but the ganker also hasn't been shot.
Alternatively, you could actively wait for it, the hostile thinks he's safe, scoops the loot, and then you throw CONCORD on him. ---
Creator of the Eve Character Appraiser/Assembler: http://gemblog.nl/skill/ http://gemblog.nl/assembler/
Originally by: De'Veldrin Welcome to the ****ing sandbox
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Ranka Mei
Caldari
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Posted - 2010.12.26 11:58:00 -
[30]
Originally by: Gemberslaafje Edited by: Gemberslaafje on 26/12/2010 09:59:09 This would be awesome for suicide gankers.
BAM. You are dead. You could've asked for CONCORD assistance but oh well, you're too late now! Sorry, not only you lost your stuff, but the ganker also hasn't been shot.
Alternatively, you could actively wait for it, the hostile thinks he's safe, scoops the loot, and then you throw CONCORD on him.
Exactly. Hopelessly transparent ploy to favor suicide ganking even more.
No supported. -1 --
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THERisingPHOENIX
Caldari Caldari Provisions
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Posted - 2010.12.26 12:11:00 -
[31]
I like the idea, needs more tweaking though to avoid any more problems popping up.
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klyeme
The Mind's Eye Etherium Cartel
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Posted - 2010.12.26 18:38:00 -
[32]
I would support this as is, but I think that when you click yes, concord should instantly be there shoting. Also allow this in low sec, for 1v1 on the gates and stations. As for the module, it would require double the current concord response time for them to get there, to discourage people from macromining with this module fit instead of expanded cargoholds.
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Seznit
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Posted - 2010.12.26 18:58:00 -
[33]
Edited by: Seznit on 26/12/2010 18:59:03 Hmmm.... Maybe let 1.0 systems function as the current concord system works now.
Also, if shuttles could somehow be excused from this, it would get my total approval. Maybe like described a little earlier in this post, some kind of auto distress signal onboard certain ships, like shuttles, that allow them to be excused from this mechanic. possibly pods too.
lets face it, at least this way people who actually use autopilot for its intended uses (like just getting from A to B quickly in a shuttle) can still go about their business.
and if so, nerf the shuttle cargo hold, so people cant use this as a secure way to move things, just literally getting around.
-or- of course, ignore my whole suggestion and just speed up the acceleration and deceleration that warp causes, so people who have to make long distance trips dont have to spend most thier time entering and exiting warp. That;s the killer time sink about long distance travel.
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Qoi
Exert Force
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Posted - 2010.12.26 21:06:00 -
[34]
This must be the idea of a botter. Nothing will be able to click on the "Notify CONCORD" button as fast as a bot, so it will help bots the most.
If you now add "CAPTCHA" to your idea, i will double *facepalm*
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Batolemaeus
Caldari Money Liberation Services Corp
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Posted - 2010.12.26 21:16:00 -
[35]
Hello my name is Batolemaeus and i approve of this idea. It has just the right amount of total insanity to be considered acceptable game design.
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Thyme Wasted
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Posted - 2010.12.26 21:53:00 -
[36]
This + no insurance payout for CONCORD'd ships = WIN.
Make the 911 popup a captcha, with a 10 minute timer. Goodbye hisec bots!
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kano donn
Revolution.
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Posted - 2010.12.26 23:19:00 -
[37]
YESSSSSSSSSSSSS
and the fix to all the complaints brought up, being able to toggle the 'yes' option.
it would 'fix' the AFK option as well still allowing consensual combat.
again +1 support.
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Anyura
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Posted - 2010.12.27 00:36:00 -
[38]
Originally by: Kalle Demos Well it will certainly fix the freighter blobbing in Jita
I know what you mean. My Navy Comet was torn apart by a pack of Obelisks.
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Lina Theist
Amarr War Veteran Pension
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Posted - 2010.12.27 01:07:00 -
[39]
Originally by: Zarutha Edited by: Zarutha on 25/12/2010 19:07:17 Edited by: Zarutha on 25/12/2010 19:03:17 Edited by: Zarutha on 25/12/2010 19:01:48 What if instead of Concord being all knowing when someone gets fired upon, needs to be called by the player? Imagine a pop up window appeared when someone opens fire on you stating "You are being fired upon, do you wish to notify concord for assistance?". This would put the responsibility on the player.
Would this help with afk players / miners and possibly bots? I think this would make empire a hell of a lot more interesting place to be.
Any thoughts on why this would or wouldn't work?
anti-botting-wise, sounds like a great idea. Problem would be, for how long will this "kill-right" be available after someone has shot me? Stealth bombers could just bomb you and cloak right afterwards if nobody is fast enough to call concord on their behinds. And this would pretty much kill autopiloting. If you ever see someone warping to a stargate at 15 you know they're autopiloting. Free killmails here I come!
-Lina Theist |
Marlona Sky
Caldari Provisions
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Posted - 2010.12.27 04:21:00 -
[40]
All this idea does is boost suicide gankers and bots. Both which need a hard nerf.
0/10
Nice troll though seeing all the people who took the bait.
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