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BolsterBomb
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Posted - 2010.12.26 21:49:00 -
[1]
Ok so ships always create one run bpcs. However mods can have up to 10, I went ahead and made a bpc of a t1 mod with 1 run on it, it created a 1 run T2 BPC, clearly I did this incorrect. How many runs does the t1 bpc need to have to get a 10 run bpc?
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Sinful Injustice
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Posted - 2010.12.26 22:19:00 -
[2]
You need a max run copy. Look at the bpo and you should see a section telling you "max runs per copy".
Personally I just leave my finger on the 9 button till the field is full and let eve default to the max possible for that bp
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Rator'ek T'mol
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Posted - 2010.12.27 14:58:00 -
[3]
Now it's been over six months since I did my last Invention, so this info could have changed, but...
When making T2 ship BPC's with no Decryptor, then you only need a Single run T1 BPC.
For T2 Ships with a Decyrptor, and any T2 Module/Drone/Rig, you will want a Max Run T1 BPC Copy.
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Celia Therone
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Posted - 2010.12.28 07:24:00 -
[4]
Originally by: Rator'ek T'mol Now it's been over six months since I did my last Invention, so this info could have changed, but...
When making T2 ship BPC's with no Decryptor, then you only need a Single run T1 BPC.
For T2 Ships with a Decyrptor, and any T2 Module/Drone/Rig, you will want a Max Run T1 BPC Copy.
It depends, for T2 ships you only want to use a max run bpc if the decryptor that you use actually has the capacity to produce more than one run.
For example if you're inventing with a formation layout (max run 1) then you only need a 1 run bpc. If you're inventing with a sacred manifesto (max runs 3) then you should use a max run bpc.
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Akita T
Caldari Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2010.12.28 11:32:00 -
[5]
Edited by: Akita T on 28/12/2010 11:35:47
Rigs, ships : minimum 1, maximum 1 + decryptor bonus Modules, drones, ammo : minimum 1, maximum 10 + decryptor bonus
P.S. No decryptor, no bonus. Decryptor bonuses for the 5 types available (sorted by highest chance modifier first) : 3, 1, 0, 1, 9. Yes, one of the 5 gives no bonus runs. _
Make ISK||Build||React||1k papercuts _
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LordRechin
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Posted - 2010.12.28 11:41:00 -
[6]
Found somthing interesting :
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Brunaburh
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Posted - 2010.12.28 21:41:00 -
[7]
I feel like I repeat myself often...
Modules: Max Run Copy Ammo: Max Run Copy Ships: Single Run Copy
You can waste all the time you want on a Max Run Copy for ships + Decryptors - it does not matter. The decryptor Maxed Run Modifier adds a FIXED AMOUNT of additional runs, regardless of the original number of runs.
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Celia Therone
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Posted - 2010.12.28 23:45:00 -
[8]
The invention wiki states this as the invention run # formula:
Invention Output Runs = MIN(MAX(ROUND_DOWN( (Input_T1_BPC_Runs / T1_Max_Runs_Per_Blueprint_Copy) * (T2_Max_Runs_Per_Blueprint_Copy / 10) + Decryptor_Runs_Bonus), 1), T2_Max_Runs_Per_Blueprint_Copy)
Are you stating that this is incorrect for ships?
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Ruziel
Minmatar Twilight Military Industrial Complex
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Posted - 2010.12.28 23:56:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Celia Therone The invention wiki states this as the invention run # formula:
Invention Output Runs = MIN(MAX(ROUND_DOWN( (Input_T1_BPC_Runs / T1_Max_Runs_Per_Blueprint_Copy) * (T2_Max_Runs_Per_Blueprint_Copy / 10) + Decryptor_Runs_Bonus), 1), T2_Max_Runs_Per_Blueprint_Copy)
Are you stating that this is incorrect for ships?
He is, but he's wrong.
See this post on how the math works.
Anything less than full runs on ship BPCs gets rounded down to 0, then the minimum of 1 run is applied.
The decryptor run bonus is applied after the Input_T1_BPC_Runs / T1_Max_Runs_Per_Blueprint_Copy is rounded, but before the minimum of 1 is applied.
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Gamped1
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Posted - 2010.12.29 13:45:00 -
[10]
I have the same problem manufactoring different modules and drones.
If I invent on a t1 BPC with 100 or more runs i still only get a 10 run t2 copy. The t2 BPC says max runs per copy = 100.
What do i do wrong - is it a question of skills? or????
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Akita T
Caldari Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2010.12.29 14:26:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Gamped1 I have the same problem manufactoring different modules and drones. If I invent on a t1 BPC with 100 or more runs i still only get a 10 run t2 copy. The t2 BPC says max runs per copy = 100. What do i do wrong - is it a question of skills? or????
You're not doing anything wrong, but you either haven't read this thread properly or you haven't really understood what's written in it. 100 is the max runs a T2 BPC of that type can ever have, true, but you can get that many only from making a copy of an original (and in most cases, that's stupid). Via invention you can only ever obtain up to 19 runs maximum (and only max 10 without using a decryptor) for modules, drones and ammo. _
Make ISK||Build||React||1k papercuts _
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Gamped1
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Posted - 2010.12.29 22:13:00 -
[12]
thank you for your respons
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Yodixie
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Posted - 2010.12.30 03:09:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Akita T
Originally by: Gamped1 I have the same problem manufactoring different modules and drones. If I invent on a t1 BPC with 100 or more runs i still only get a 10 run t2 copy. The t2 BPC says max runs per copy = 100. What do i do wrong - is it a question of skills? or????
You're not doing anything wrong, but you either haven't read this thread properly or you haven't really understood what's written in it. 100 is the max runs a T2 BPC of that type can ever have, true, but you can get that many only from making a copy of an original (and in most cases, that's stupid). Via invention you can only ever obtain up to 19 runs maximum (and only max 10 without using a decryptor) for modules, drones and ammo.
I am looking at a contract right now (and have seen them before) for a warrior 2 bpc with 100 runs. If what you say is true would the max runs not be 19? I would surely love to know how to make a warrior 2 bpc with 100 runs!
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Breaker77
Gallente Reclamation Industries
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Posted - 2010.12.30 03:35:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Yodixie I would surely love to know how to make a warrior 2 bpc with 100 runs!
Get a T2 BPO, make a max run copy.
There you go.
Keep in mind it takes long to make a copy from a T2 BPO than it does to build the same number of units so there is probably a good reason they are copying them instead of building them.
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Gamped1
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Posted - 2011.01.26 18:25:00 -
[15]
I am experiencing, that i am making a max run T1 BPC - invent - and i still only get 1 run T2 BPO...
I am not using decryptors but is using the optionel base item ... any advice????
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Greg Huff
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Posted - 2011.01.26 18:28:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Gamped1 I am experiencing, that i am making a max run T1 BPC - invent - and i still only get 1 run T2 BPO...
I am not using decryptors but is using the optionel base item ... any advice????
It's working as designed.
...assuming (since your didn't say) that you're inventing a ship of some sort.
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Letrange
Minmatar Chaosstorm Corporation
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Posted - 2011.01.26 18:34:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Breaker77 Keep in mind it takes long to make a copy from a T2 BPO than it does to build the same number of units so there is probably a good reason they are copying them instead of building them.
The obvious reason would be to manufacture in 0.0 space without risking the BPO getting killed in a POS or stuck in a conquerable station. The other is not wanting to sink time and effort into manufacturing (all that hauling) but wanting to make some isk off the BPO you've got sitting around.
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Gamped1
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Posted - 2011.01.26 18:49:00 -
[18]
no i am producing drones - making 20 copies with 1500 runs (max No of copies and runs)
I have no idea - except the incursion update???
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Greg Huff
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Posted - 2011.01.26 18:51:00 -
[19]
Sounds like you should submit a petition.
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Gamped1
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Posted - 2011.01.26 18:55:00 -
[20]
i will try that - i have another invention running now - if same result i will submit a petition
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Tau Cabalander
Caldari
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Posted - 2011.01.26 19:07:00 -
[21]
Originally by: BolsterBomb Ok so ships always create one run bpcs. However mods can have up to 10, I went ahead and made a bpc of a t1 mod with 1 run on it, it created a 1 run T2 BPC, clearly I did this incorrect. How many runs does the t1 bpc need to have to get a 10 run bpc?
It is pretty simple to think about it this way:
100% of max runs on T1 BPC gives 100% of max runs on T2 BPC. ... 50% of max runs on T1 BPC gives 50% of max runs on T2 BPC. ... 1% of max runs on T1 BPC gives 1% of max runs on T2 BPC.
Decrypter extra runs are added on top.
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Punktious
Expert Systems
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Posted - 2011.01.27 13:46:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Akita T
Originally by: Gamped1 I have the same problem manufactoring different modules and drones. If I invent on a t1 BPC with 100 or more runs i still only get a 10 run t2 copy. The t2 BPC says max runs per copy = 100. What do i do wrong - is it a question of skills? or????
You're not doing anything wrong, but you either haven't read this thread properly or you haven't really understood what's written in it. 100 is the max runs a T2 BPC of that type can ever have, true, but you can get that many only from making a copy of an original (and in most cases, that's stupid). Via invention you can only ever obtain up to 19 runs maximum (and only max 10 without using a decryptor) for modules, drones and ammo.
not entirely true, I had an invention the other day give a 32 run bpc on a ballistic control system invention. max run bpc, with one bcs t1 unit and NO decrypter.
Never seen it before, and only happened to me once.
---------------------------- Bathing in cold water is, just like hitting yourself in the head.... nice when you stop doing it. |
Revolution Rising
R I S E Industries Last-Light
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Posted - 2011.01.28 18:19:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Sinful Injustice You need a max run copy. Look at the bpo and you should see a section telling you "max runs per copy".
Personally I just leave my finger on the 9 button till the field is full and let eve default to the max possible for that bp
I do the exact same thing.
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Gamped1
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Posted - 2011.01.28 18:35:00 -
[24]
Hi again
I am sorry - but i invented on the wrong (a less than max run copy) bpc's and only got 1 run t2 bpc - now i am using a max run copy and getting the result i exept.
Thank u for your respons...
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Brunaburh
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Posted - 2011.01.28 21:31:00 -
[25]
Edited by: Brunaburh on 28/01/2011 21:36:58
Originally by: Ruziel
Originally by: Celia Therone The invention wiki states this as the invention run # formula:
Invention Output Runs = MIN(MAX(ROUND_DOWN( (Input_T1_BPC_Runs / T1_Max_Runs_Per_Blueprint_Copy) * (T2_Max_Runs_Per_Blueprint_Copy / 10) + Decryptor_Runs_Bonus), 1), T2_Max_Runs_Per_Blueprint_Copy)
Are you stating that this is incorrect for ships?
He is, but he's wrong.
See this post on how the math works.
Anything less than full runs on ship BPCs gets rounded down to 0, then the minimum of 1 run is applied.
The decryptor run bonus is applied after the Input_T1_BPC_Runs / T1_Max_Runs_Per_Blueprint_Copy is rounded, but before the minimum of 1 is applied.
No, I'm not wrong. I invent ships from 1-run copies. If I invent an Arazu from a Celestis and add in a Symbiotic Figures Decryptor I get 9 runs (for some reason I'm now wondering if it's 10, but I'm not logged in at this exact moment). This is a single-run BPC.
The EVE Wiki even contradicts itself: Quote: When inventing ships, one run is both the maximum and minimum, thus additional runs on the input BPC will not improve the output.
Although it follows with this statement, which does not make sense with the maths:
Quote: When using decryptors, maximum run BPCs are recommended to take full advantage of the run enhancements.
If you actually run the equations,
(Input_T1_BPC_Runs / T1_Max_Runs_Per_Blueprint_Copy) * (T2_Max_Runs_Per_Blueprint_Copy / 10) + Decryptor_Runs_Bonus) (15/15)*(1/10)+9 = 9.1 (1/15)*(1/10)+9 = 9.01
Rounding down = 9 in both cases. Therefore, there is no practical advantage to a max run ship BPC, in fact there is an ISK loss due to time for a max run copy production. This may have been different in the future, but in the 12 months I've been doing invention on ships, my results match up to this, and I only invent with 1 run copies.
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Ruziel
Minmatar Twilight Military Industrial Complex
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Posted - 2011.01.28 21:59:00 -
[26]
Edited by: Ruziel on 28/01/2011 22:03:02 Edited by: Ruziel on 28/01/2011 22:02:07
Originally by: Brunaburh If you actually run the equations,
(Input_T1_BPC_Runs / T1_Max_Runs_Per_Blueprint_Copy) * (T2_Max_Runs_Per_Blueprint_Copy / 10) + Decryptor_Runs_Bonus) (15/15)*(1/10)+9 = 9.1 (1/15)*(1/10)+9 = 9.01
Rounding down = 9 in both cases. Therefore, there is no practical advantage to a max run ship BPC, in fact there is an ISK loss due to time for a max run copy production. This may have been different in the past, but in the 12 months I've been doing invention on ships, my results match up to this, and I only invent with 1 run copies.
Bzzzt... try again with the right numbers, the Max Runs Per Copy (T2_Max_Runs_Per_Copy)for an Arazu print is 10, not 1.
Invention Output Runs = MIN(MAX(ROUND_DOWN( (Input_T1_BPC_Runs / T1_Max_Runs_Per_Blueprint_Copy) * (T2_Max_Runs_Per_Blueprint_Copy / 10) + Decryptor_Runs_Bonus), 1), T2_Max_Runs_Per_Blueprint_Copy)
Single Run: MIN(MAX(ROUND_DOWN((1/15)*(10/10)+9),1),10) MIN(MAX(ROUND_DOWN(0.667 * 1 + 9),1),10) MIN(MAX(ROUND_DOWN(0.667 + 9),1),10) MIN(MAX(ROUND_DOWN(9.667),1),10) MIN(MAX(9,1),10) MIN(9,10) 9
Max Run: MIN(MAX(ROUND_DOWN((15/15)*(10/10)+9),1),10) MIN(MAX(ROUND_DOWN(1 * 1 + 9),1),10) MIN(MAX(ROUND_DOWN(1 + 9),1),10) MIN(MAX(ROUND_DOWN(10),1),10) MIN(MAX(10,1),10) MIN(10,10) 10
So there is a difference, using that max run print gets you that base of 1 run that is otherwise rounded off with less than max run input prints.
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