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Hawk TT
Caldari Bulgarian Experienced Crackers RED Citizens
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Posted - 2010.12.27 20:07:00 -
[1]
Problem Description Since the Anti-Aliasing was introduced with Incursion 1.0.0 I started experiencing intermittent graphics performance drops & crashes. The crashes and the PC hanging problems are much more pronounced when running the SiSi Client (Build #216164) and especially the New Character Creator (as described in Bug #104805), but I still have similar problems with the current TQ Client Build #214371.
It's interesting to see if anyone else could reproduce the problem - I am able to reproduce it every time
Root Cause Discovered (sort of)
I've made some extensive testing to pinpoint the cause for those problems and I believe I found the problem (not the solution):
1) EVE Client Graphics engine interferes with any Internet Browser Window in the background, which has Embedded Adobe Flash Player 10.1 loaded AND having 720p/1080p HD video loaded. The Video has to be loaded, it could be playing or it could be On Pause - it doesn't really matter. The performance hit on EVE Graphics FPS is severe, no matter if you load a video with IE 9.0 Beta, FireFox 3.6.12 or Google Chrome 8.0.552.224.
2) Initially I thought the problem was coming from IE 9.0 Beta, because of the new Direct2D / Accelerated GPU Video Decoding features, but FireFox 3.6 and Google Chrome 8 do not use such Accelerated Rendering. On the other hand Adobe Flash 10.1.102.64 uses the GPU for Video Decoding independently from the browser vendor / version. I suspect that with Adobe Flash 10.2 (still in Alpha) for IE 9.0 the problem will become even bigger.
3) It seems that the EVE Client Anti-Aliasing does not trigger the performance problem by itself - it's just that with AA set to 4x the combined performance hit caused by the Flash Video in the background and the AA brings the frame rate to less than 10FPS (docked in station)!
4) Further testing revealed that with AA set to 4x I am getting stability problems - desktop corruption, flickering and ultimately - blank screen / gray stripes & PC hang.
Some FPS statistics, Graphics ALL TO MAX, while docked in station: 1) No Broswers in the Background (OS), AA Disbaled: 60 FPS 2) No Broswers in the Background (OS), AA 4x: 40-50 FPS 3) Browser with 1080P HD video loaded, video playback going or paused, AA Disbaled: 35-45 FPS 4) Browser with 1080P HD video loaded, video playback going or paused, AA 4x: 0.1 - 5 FPS
For the testing I was using the several differnt HD videos from YouTube, but mostly this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yQ5U8suTUw0
Reproduction Steps 1) Turn ON the PC and perform normal (clean) OS boot 2) Open EVE Client, log on, stay docked in station 3) Change all graphic settings to MAX 4) Press Ctrl+F or Ctrl+Alt+Shift+M->Perofmance to monitor the FPS 5) Press Ctrl+ESC to go to the Windows Desktop 6) Start IE 9.0 Beta / FireFox 3.6 / Google Chrome browser 7) Load a YouTube 1080p HD video (e.g.: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yQ5U8suTUw0) 8) Wait for the video to start playing in the embedded box and pause it 9) Go back to EVE 10) Check the frame-rate performance (FPS)
After some switching and testing with running video and/or opening lots of tabs / broswer windows you (supposedly) will start experiencing not only performance issues, but also crashes / instabillity issues.
PC Configuration Info CPU i7 Core 920 RAM 12GB DDR3 Video Card Sapphire Radeon HD5870 Toxic 2GB GDDR5 Displays 2 x Dell U2410 24" Displays (Eyefinity 3840x1200) EVE Client running in full screen @ 3840x1200 (AMD Eyefinity) Windows 7 Ultimate x64 AMD Catalyst 10.12 drivers Adobe Flash 10.1.102.64 IE 9.0 Beta FireFox 3.6.12 Google Chrome 8.0.552.224
___________________________________ BECKS
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Captain Pompous
Is Right Even When He's Wrong So Deal With It
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Posted - 2010.12.27 20:44:00 -
[2]
Originally by: Hawk TT snip
Hey I got my own:
Problem Description
Not in the correct forum section.
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☻♥ Problem? Therapy sessions ♥☻ |
Hawk TT
Caldari Bulgarian Experienced Crackers RED Citizens
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Posted - 2010.12.27 20:53:00 -
[3]
My bad - too many Browser Tabs, so I posted in the wrong forum section...
This post must be moved to Issues, Workarounds & Localization
Hopefully a GM will move it there...
Originally by: Captain Pompous
Originally by: Hawk TT snip
Hey I got my own:
Problem Description
Not in the correct forum section.
___________________________________ BECKS
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Daneel Trevize
Black Viper Nomads
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Posted - 2010.12.28 01:53:00 -
[4]
I've noticed something occasionally screws with my browser (FF3.6)'s HD video playback, visual is decoded wrongly until reboot, but never worked out what triggered it. I've not noticed immediate eve issues, but do know that if I've been dualboxing for a while, and/or played something else (usually source-engine-based) for a bit that attempting more eve will result it terribad alt+tabbing behaviour between new clients with huge catchup rendering and laggy responses, which isn't cured by relaunching the clients again but only by a reboot. Playing other games again however seems fine, it's just eve atm that can't be returned to. I'll have to see if these 2 effects coincide or if I noticed general degredation in eve having just used it and browser video... |
Jovan Geldon
Gallente Lead Farmers Kill It With Fire
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Posted - 2010.12.28 02:07:00 -
[5]
I, too, like to post in Bold. It makes whatever I have to say that much more important.
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Grez
Neo Spartans Laconian Syndicate
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Posted - 2010.12.28 02:29:00 -
[6]
Edited by: Grez on 28/12/2010 02:35:30 Right click on Flash video > Settings > Un-tick "Hardware Acceleration"; you'll have no issues rendering 1080p video's with an i7 anyway.
No idea why you're having issues - I have the EXACT Radeon 5870 you have, 10.12 Catalyst drivers, 10.1 Flash installed and Hardware Acceleration enabled with no issues. Only thing left to blame would be some sort of software setup issue.
As an added bit of info, anti-aliasing lowers performance on all machines - it's the most intensive thing your GPU can do. ---
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T'Laar Bok
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Posted - 2010.12.28 03:05:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Hawk TT EVE Client Graphics engine interferes with any Internet Browser Window in the background, which has Embedded Adobe Flash Player 10.1 loaded AND having 720p/1080p HD video loaded.
I can't reproduce the issue. Four clients on 4 monitors, max settings. I don't get any major performance issues until I have 9 HD videos all playing at once spread across the 4 monitors. Pausing any of the videos restores performance.
Your machine is speced way higher than mine. I use Opera and I don't have Eyefinity. Out of being a browser issue or Eyefinity I would suspect Eyefinity. |
T'Laar Bok
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Posted - 2010.12.28 03:07:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Jovan Geldon I, too, like to post in Bold. It makes whatever I have to say that much more important.
I noticed this important post only because it was bolded.
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Hawk TT
Caldari Bulgarian Experienced Crackers RED Citizens
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Posted - 2010.12.28 03:22:00 -
[9]
Hmmm, I should try with Opera or without Eyefinity enabled (detaching 2nd display etc.)...You reminded me that AMD/ATI still have some issues with HD decoding & Eyefinity enabled...
Originally by: T'Laar Bok
Originally by: Hawk TT EVE Client Graphics engine interferes with any Internet Browser Window in the background, which has Embedded Adobe Flash Player 10.1 loaded AND having 720p/1080p HD video loaded.
I can't reproduce the issue. Four clients on 4 monitors, max settings. I don't get any major performance issues until I have 9 HD videos all playing at once spread across the 4 monitors. Pausing any of the videos restores performance.
Your machine is speced way higher than mine. I use Opera and I don't have Eyefinity. Out of being a browser issue or Eyefinity I would suspect Eyefinity.
___________________________________ BECKS
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Hawk RND1
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Posted - 2010.12.28 03:33:00 -
[10]
Edited by: Hawk RND1 on 28/12/2010 03:33:15
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Hawk TT
Caldari Bulgarian Experienced Crackers RED Citizens
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Posted - 2010.12.28 03:38:00 -
[11]
Thanks for both suggestions below!
Originally by: Grez Edited by: Grez on 28/12/2010 02:35:30 Right click on Flash video > Settings > Un-tick "Hardware Acceleration"; you'll have no issues rendering 1080p video's with an i7 anyway.
No idea why you're having issues - I have the EXACT Radeon 5870 you have, 10.12 Catalyst drivers, 10.1 Flash installed and Hardware Acceleration enabled with no issues. Only thing left to blame would be some sort of software setup issue.
As an added bit of info, anti-aliasing lowers performance on all machines - it's the most intensive thing your GPU can do.
Originally by: T'Laar Bok I can't reproduce the issue. Four clients on 4 monitors, max settings. I don't get any major performance issues until I have 9 HD videos all playing at once spread across the 4 monitors. Pausing any of the videos restores performance.
Your machine is speced way higher than mine. I use Opera and I don't have Eyefinity. Out of being a browser issue or Eyefinity I would suspect Eyefinity.
1) Disabling Adobe Flash Hardware Acceleration and reloading the Browser Page (to make the new settings effective) "solves" the problem, but still - this is either Adobe Flash / AMD Catalyst / EVE problem. I could not reproduce the same bug with DIRT 2 for example.
2) Disabling AMD/ATI Eyefinity (going from 3840x1200 to 1920x1200) "solves" the problem as well - no performance hit due to HD video playing in the browser window.
So, it seems there are some workarounds, but IMHO they are not acceptable - EVE is stunning @ 3840x1200 and Flash Hardware Acceleration improves the video decoding quality quite much, because of the UVD3 filters - who wants to give up on such features...
___________________________________ BECKS
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Tres Farmer
Gallente Federation Intelligence Service
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Posted - 2010.12.28 04:56:00 -
[12]
I would guess it's bad programming from Adobe.. if I start to watch a vid on youtube and then close the browser window, go to another link or try to stop it, it still keeps loading the video in the background until all is downloaded. Tried all context menus and whatnot.. download only stops when I forcefully disable all internet traffic via firewall (I have the network monitor open). So I'd blame Adobe.
Latest Flash stuff, latest Firefox, Win7 64bit support Public Idea Tracker | 24hr PLEX |
Kile Kitmoore
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Posted - 2010.12.29 07:10:00 -
[13]
Edited by: Kile Kitmoore on 29/12/2010 07:11:41 This crash you describe, is anything getting reported in the Windows Event Viewer? Like, 4101 warnings? Do other HD 720/1080 videos, such as .mkv files, also produce this problem when played back using a media player like MPC or VLC?
The reason I ask, sorry if I missed something in your original post, is that there is a growing number of these "Display Successfully Recovered" problems with both Nvidia and ATI. Some people see it just sitting idle on the desktop, games or just playing back HD videos. It's all over the board.
Myself, I see it whenever I playback HD videos with DXVA2 enabled or hardware acceleration turned on with Flash. Hardware manufacturers blame Microsoft and MS blames them so people with this problem are left to their own devices to resolve the issue.
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Othran
Brutor tribe
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Posted - 2010.12.29 09:21:00 -
[14]
Edited by: Othran on 29/12/2010 09:24:10 Edited by: Othran on 29/12/2010 09:22:26 Its a combination of Flash 10.1 and a Windows Update - no idea which one. I suspect its one of the ones to do with ASLR, but thats a gut feeling.
This issue started around July 2010 for me - and I had the 10.1 beta installed for ages with no issues, then all of a sudden if you opened two applications which utilised Flash h/w acceleration the video driver would crash. NB - it wasn't and isn't just Eve, WMC will do it too.
Updated video drivers and the release version of Flash made no difference. The only thing that works is is disable Flash acceleration in browsers/other apps.
I saw the same on two machines - one with ATI gfx and one with NVidia gfx.
I recently reinstalled windows 7 and the issue was COMPLETELY gone until a load of windows updates got applied. I guess I could apply them one by one to see which update "causes" it, but what then? MS aren't going to take any notice, nor are Adobe.
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Illwill Bill
Svea Rike Controlled Chaos
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Posted - 2010.12.29 09:34:00 -
[15]
No problems here when running with Opera 11 and latest flash.
Originally by: CCP Navigator Great story but you probably want this in CAOD so feel free to post there with your main.
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Shintai
Gallente Arx Io Orbital Factories Arx Io
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Posted - 2010.12.29 09:40:00 -
[16]
OP uses Catalyst/ATI. No wonder it fails. I got rid of my 5750 card due to issues. And drivers that sucked. --------------------------------------
Abstraction and Transcendence: Nature, Shintai, and Geometry |
Narme Delphos
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Posted - 2010.12.29 12:25:00 -
[17]
Right click on flash video, settings, disable hardware acceleration. It's to do with GPU clock speeds and power saving and various other things, but this should fix it.
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Kile Kitmoore
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Posted - 2010.12.29 15:55:00 -
[18]
The problem I described in my post, where the graphics driver constantly crashes under certain conditions is a problem as old as Vista and can occur in both ATI and Nvidia graphics cards.
Here is some helpful links: ATI: ATIKMDAG.sys problems and TDR FAQ
Nvidia: NVIDIA Statement on TDR Errors Display driver nvlddmkm stopped...
As you will see, troubleshooting is basically a shotgun approach. Some have fixed it by replacing the graphics card, changing drivers or memory timings, uninstalling specific Windows patches etc. There is no magic bullet for this problem. It's a pain to discover a fix and in my own particular case I have a good enough CPU to live without DXVA2 and hope SP1 or a Cat upgrade down the road will fix it. Personally it sucks, I can play Fallout New Vegas or EVE with multiple clients all day without issue but 5 or so minutes into HD playback with DXVA2 turned on the graphics drivers crash.
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CCP StevieSG
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Posted - 2010.12.29 16:30:00 -
[19]
Moved to Issues from EVE General.
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