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ForumWarrior
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Posted - 2011.01.01 12:47:00 -
[1]
Okay, so this is my first go at doing T2 production.
I have access to a X-Large Shield Booster II BPO locked down in a corp office.
Material requirements: Isogen- 200 Morphite - 6 Nocxium- 100 RAM Shield Tech - 1 Superconductors - 8 Sustained Shield Emitter - 16 X-Large Shield Booster - 1 Zydrine - 50
No matter what way I run the numbers on this - buying the RAM, Shield Emitters, and T1 Booster off the market, building them from scratch on a well-researched BPO, mix-and-matching - these build at a MASSIVE loss compared to Jita prices.
For the most realistic building scenario, I get a build cost of 1,710,648.46 ISK. The finished product is currently selling in Jita at 792k.
I feel like I'm missing something endemically obvious, that I'm way off on the build cost somewhere, but short of ignoring the mineral value of the T1 booster and RAM, I don't get a number that comes anywhere close to profit.
Normally I'd write a scenario like this off to the market freetards, but there's not a single one of these selling above production cost in all of Jita, and that's the production cost from a BPO, not an invented BPC. And the loss per unit percentage is huge.
So what am I missing here, wise S&I? I feel like I have to be making some kind of blatantly ******ed mistake somewhere in my maths.
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Mr Dilkington
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Posted - 2011.01.01 14:19:00 -
[2]
Damn this T2 bpo needs removing fast, i can see its a license for you to print ISK !!!
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BorderRunner 97
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Posted - 2011.01.01 14:51:00 -
[3]
No you don't loser ISK by buying the stuff to make them the whole point to use T2 BPOs is that you mine and build the stuff that you need to make the T2 item not but the stuff to build them
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Targate
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Posted - 2011.01.01 15:03:00 -
[4]
Border is an obvious ******, dont listen to him!
But on the other hand he is giving the explanation. People are ******s, they go out there and mine the stuff. Make items, screw the alternative cost and sell the item at a huge loss compared to what they would have earned from just selling the materials.
Lol... Recycle it maybe?
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Targate
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Posted - 2011.01.01 15:06:00 -
[5]
And I have bought mats from the market, made stuff and sold stuff to ******s with huge success btw.. People put up sell orders according to the buy order it seem, not according to material cost... And as we all know, tons of people are ****tards. If anyone remember that jita direct sale thing, that was just lul! Manipulate buy order and you have win! But obv not needed.
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BorderRunner 97
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Posted - 2011.01.01 15:21:00 -
[6]
Edited by: BorderRunner 97 on 01/01/2011 15:22:40 Depending on the item and the area you want to sell it in you can make enough of that 1 item like missile launchers and such and sell them in 1 station since alot of systems have not many in 1 system and they are all spread apart and alot of people are more then willing to spend the ISK to get all their needs in 1 station. Stay away from Jita for trying to sell things pretty much 99.99% of the things that are selling fast is far to under priced.
Alot of the things aren't worth building except if you live in null sec or wormhole space and trying to get items in is a hassle since you have to figure out what is more important. POS fuel, minerals or w/e else going in and out of the wh. That's where BPOs come in hand you can mine the stuff that you need to build the item in wh or null sec and not have to rely on bringing items to the POS or station.
Do the math on the cost of the stuff needed if you were to mine the mienrals needed to build stuff and the cost of what other items are needed and sell a little more to cover the ISK that it cost you in build time and there you go. Don't go around and cry because you can't make fast easy ISK from buying and building things its eve nothing is easy to get.
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Targate
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Posted - 2011.01.01 15:42:00 -
[7]
Please stop embarassing yourself!!!
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Lutz Major
Austriae Est Imperare Orbi Universo
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Posted - 2011.01.01 16:07:00 -
[8]
Originally by: ForumWarrior For the most realistic building scenario, I get a build cost of 1,710,648.46 ISK. The finished product is currently selling in Jita at 792k.
Uhm. When I run the numbers on your ME 40 blueprint, I get a build quote of ISK 916,922.26 in Jita and ISK 887,643.52 in Dodixie. Either you are miserable at math or you lack skills.
Anyway. A good example that T2 BPOs are NOT cash cows, and that price dumping is done by inventors and not T2 owners.
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BorderRunner 97
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Posted - 2011.01.01 16:24:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Targate Please stop embarassing yourself!!!
Sorry but I have lived in null sec and wh space and I know first hand that its better to build cretin items in the wormhole or null sec then try to bring it into the wormhole space or null sec. Its better to build things your sell in wh or null sec because would you rather lose a bunch of items that possibly cost as much or more then a BPO or BPC but in less amout then what you cna build from a BPC or bring in a BPC and build more items? If you would rather try to bring costly items into a wh or null sec that cost more then a BPC or BPO that you cna build more items from them you should just give your ISK away.
I am not gonna lie and like I said before alot of stuff aren't worth building from BPC or BPO unless you live mainly in null sec or wormhole space and don't want to risk bring in expensive items and have to replace them all if you lose them when you could have brought a BPO or BPC that cost the same or less but you can build more items from.
Example. If you were to bring 10+ T1 veldspar mining crystals and you use them all up then you have to go and bring more in and your using up 300m¦ of cargo hold up that could be used for POS fuel and you can just mine the ore that you need refine it then build the item its self and if you use a hulk to mine with your saving your self alot of time not to mention it doesn't take long to get the Noc to build it and the other minerals you can sell if you wanted or save them to build other stuff with.
oh by the way its embarrassing not embarassing.
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Aunty Nora
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Posted - 2011.01.01 17:13:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Targate Please stop embarassing yourself!!!
says the guy that cannot form a sentence.
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KaarBaak
Minmatar Seatec Astronomy
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Posted - 2011.01.01 18:14:00 -
[11]
Originally by: BorderRunner 97
Originally by: Targate Please stop embarassing yourself!!!
Sorry but I have lived in null sec and wh space and I know first hand that its better to build cretin items in the wormhole or null sec then try to bring it into the wormhole space or null sec. Its better to build things your sell in wh or null sec because would you rather lose a bunch of items that possibly cost as much or more then a BPO or BPC but in less amout then what you cna build from a BPC or bring in a BPC and build more items? If you would rather try to bring costly items into a wh or null sec that cost more then a BPC or BPO that you cna build more items from them you should just give your ISK away.
I am not gonna lie and like I said before alot of stuff aren't worth building from BPC or BPO unless you live mainly in null sec or wormhole space and don't want to risk bring in expensive items and have to replace them all if you lose them when you could have brought a BPO or BPC that cost the same or less but you can build more items from.
Example. If you were to bring 10+ T1 veldspar mining crystals and you use them all up then you have to go and bring more in and your using up 300m¦ of cargo hold up that could be used for POS fuel and you can just mine the ore that you need refine it then build the item its self and if you use a hulk to mine with your saving your self alot of time not to mention it doesn't take long to get the Noc to build it and the other minerals you can sell if you wanted or save them to build other stuff with.
oh by the way its embarrassing not embarassing.
Alanis Morissette called. She wants her irony back.
KB
Circumstances rule men; men do not rule circumstances. --Herodotus, Histories
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Teramaxus
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Posted - 2011.01.01 18:30:00 -
[12]
looks like you got a bad BPO give you 500 mil for it
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Targate
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Posted - 2011.01.01 19:42:00 -
[13]
Originally by: BorderRunner 97
Originally by: Targate Please stop embarassing yourself!!!
Sorry but I have lived in null sec and wh space and I know first hand that its better to build cretin items in the wormhole or null sec then try to bring it into the wormhole space or null sec. Its better to build things your sell in wh or null sec because would you rather lose a bunch of items that possibly cost as much or more then a BPO or BPC but in less amout then what you cna build from a BPC or bring in a BPC and build more items? If you would rather try to bring costly items into a wh or null sec that cost more then a BPC or BPO that you cna build more items from them you should just give your ISK away.
I am not gonna lie and like I said before alot of stuff aren't worth building from BPC or BPO unless you live mainly in null sec or wormhole space and don't want to risk bring in expensive items and have to replace them all if you lose them when you could have brought a BPO or BPC that cost the same or less but you can build more items from.
oh by the way its embarrassing not embarassing.
WTF do all this **** have to do with T2 production and the OPs problem? Should he bring his T2 BPO into a wormhole for some insane reason? What am I missing here? Are there some hidden market hub hidden somewhere in WH space?
You are suggesting that he mine the mats and dont buy em of the market and then make the item and sell it at a crap price. That is a tard suggestion.
So i repeat with spelling error: Stop embarassing yourself!!!
Im obviously not in the market forum anymore... I need to hang around here more often. Learn how the mindless manufacturer think will probably earn me lots of isk :)
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Telvani
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Posted - 2011.01.01 20:27:00 -
[14]
Originally by: BorderRunner 97 Edited by: BorderRunner 97 on 01/01/2011 15:07:12 No you don't loser ISK by buying the stuff to make them the whole point to use T2 BPOs is that you mine and build the stuff that you need to make the T2 item not but the stuff to build them.
Only rookies/noobs/people who think they cna buy the stuff and build it for fast ISK/people who never looked into production always think they can make fast ISK and buy all the stuff off the market. Welcome to the real world of Manufacturing. I've been mining and building things for over 1 year now.
I was going to give this a 0/10 because even bad trolls use correct spelling / grammar, but then you got real replies so I'll raise you to 3/10. |
Greg Huff
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Posted - 2011.01.02 14:38:00 -
[15]
Edited by: Greg Huff on 02/01/2011 14:38:31 ForumWarrior, based on the numbers that Lutz Major reported I suspect the problem is your trained level of Production Efficiency. Do you have this trained to 5 yet?
As for other stuff:- The BPO is locked down. He cannot take it anywhere
- Proper cost calculations are based on MARKET PRICES for the materials, as such is doesn't matter how you get them. (as long as you're pricing them at or over what you paid)
- Building T2 items in W-Space requires you to transport materials in since you cannot mine moons.
- I would not recommend transporting a T2 BPO anywhere, least of all into a wormhole
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Rikki Sals
Caldari
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Posted - 2011.01.02 15:18:00 -
[16]
I'm getting about 850k isk for those numbers and Jita buy. Only way I can see you getting a number that high is if you accidentally used the price for X-Large Shield Booster II instead of tech 1.
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Eve Industrialist
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Posted - 2011.01.03 01:18:00 -
[17]
I looked on
https://eve-industrialist.com/eve-industrialist/building.eve
That calculates your blue print PNL. I did a search with "X-Large Shield Booster" and it came back negative PNL. Of course, i did not expand it to put ME and TE in the component materials.
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Jowen Datloran
Caldari Science and Trade Institute
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Posted - 2011.01.03 12:52:00 -
[18]
Originally by: BorderRunner 97 Minerals you mine yourself are free.
Right, you loonie.
-- Mr. Science & Trade Institute - EVE Lorebook - Mysteries of W-space |
Charles Park
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Posted - 2011.01.05 13:55:00 -
[19]
Many T2 items are not worth building simply because there is no demand for them, or not enough-T2 1600mm armor plates come to mind. As for T2 XL shield boosters, lets think where the demand for these is: its not PVPers, no serious pvper active tanks, much less active shield tank, maybe in some crazy low sec fit I guess but in that situation they'd probably use a faction booster to make it work. The only other demand would be from pve and again these guys typically use faction mods; there's not a lot of losses to replace in the pve category. When supply > demand prices fall. Find something else to build :(.
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Brian Ballsack
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Posted - 2011.01.05 14:09:00 -
[20]
Quote: no serious pvper active tanks
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Charles Park
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Posted - 2011.01.05 14:14:00 -
[21]
Low sec might be different, but I'm guessing the majority of module demand come from 0.0 and there its all about buffer tank with logistic support. I can't think of a single commonly used 0.0 fleet or small gang fit that actively tanks, much less actively shield tanks, and certainly not with a T2 XL booster.
Dual armor rep sac is one ship I can think of in the active tanking category but again that's low sec. Even then I'm willing to bet if you did the same analysis on a T2 Medium Armor Repairer BPO this guy did on his XL booster BPO you'd get the same money-losing result.
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Jovialmadness
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Posted - 2011.01.05 14:29:00 -
[22]
Edited by: Jovialmadness on 05/01/2011 14:46:08
Originally by: BorderRunner 97 Edited by: BorderRunner 97 on 01/01/2011 15:07:12 No you don't loser ISK by buying the stuff to make them the whole point to use T2 BPOs is that you mine and build the stuff that you need to make the T2 item not but the stuff to build them.
Material requirements:
Isogen - 200 (You can mine and refine Omber or Kernite to get this from) Morphite - 6 (you can get this from refining loot that you get from belt rats or missions or you can buy it off the market) Nocxium - 100 (Mine and refine Pyroxeres) RAM Shield Tech - 1 Buy the BPO of it and mine the minerals your self to build it Superconductors - 8 You get this from PI stuff Sustained Shield Emitter - 16 You can but the BPO of this and i think it uses moon resources to build X-Large Shield Booster - 1 Buy the BPO of this mine the minerals that you can and buy the rest Zydrine - 50 Buy this off the market or mine it from null sec or wormhole space
Only rookies/noobs/people who think they cna buy the stuff and build it for fast ISK/people who never looked into production always think they can make fast ISK and buy all the stuff off the market. Welcome to the real world of Manufacturing. I've been mining and building things for over 1 year now.
Uhhh you might want to tell the nerf bpo brigade this jewel of info.
1. Assuming some genius actually did what you said, it would destroy the myth that tech 2 bpos are " easy isk"
2. You are so horribly wrong about mining your own mins i simply am astounded. There are some bpos out there that manufacture at a loss. Those are usually ignored by most competent bpo buyers/users. They usually get gobbled up by resellers who get them cheap, hold onto them for a long time them resell them to a chump. Afterall, after competent builders do the math no one would want the bpo except a reseller who begins greasing a frustrated seller. I cant imagine it but id suppose some crazy guy out there might actually mine all the time just to get the raw materials to produce off the bpo. Tbh though i cant imagine why you wouldnt want to place low buy orders strategically around and get your mins cheap that way. Unless of course you simply love mining...ug
Edit and since im out of tech 2 bpo production and ownership ill give you all the three golden rules of tech 2 bpo buying for free since im such a nice guy.
1. This is the one people ignore because they are blinded by the myth tech 2 bpos are all powerful. How many fits utilize the mod and/or how often is it used period? OR how often is the ship used.
2. If its a highly desirable mod/ship, check invention levels.
3. Lastly check its build costs and give yourself some buffer when calculating payback time in years. That buffer depends on actual profit levels, how desired it is and simply your desire for it. |
Ticker Troon
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Posted - 2011.01.05 20:19:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Jovialmadness
There are some bpos out there that manufacture at a loss.
This remains one of my biggest surprises in the game both for T1 and T2. For example, I recently "did the math" for T2 frigate production and found for the two races I looked at only 2 or 3 of the ships were remotely profitable and some were horribly unprofitable even in best-case scenarios.
Even when I was back in the "I have no ISK so I will have to mine to do this" (<- do not read this as "minerals are free"; at the time I was simply exchanging time for ISK) days of making ammo from a researched BPO set I was surprised at the number of items I couldn't make profitably. It's just reality.
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