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Mashie Saldana
Minmatar Veto Corp
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Posted - 2011.01.04 09:07:00 -
[31]
Originally by: Ziaxi The only way anyone will believe you is if you request full disclosure from the GMs on the forums. Otherwise, you bought ISK.
This, please request full disclosure in the forums.
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Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
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Posted - 2011.01.04 09:09:00 -
[32]
Originally by: Ziaxi The only way anyone will believe you is if you request full disclosure from the GMs on the forums. Otherwise, you bought ISK.
I wish more people did this. It has always made for such epic pwnage so far. ùùù ôIf you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡à you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.ö ù Karath Piki |
Shawna Gray
Gallente
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Posted - 2011.01.04 09:17:00 -
[33]
What i got 50 bill from my good friend okjhakjfnabnfboabasdj when he had to quit the game. Honest!
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Rian O'Shea
Stratos Manufacturing and Logistics
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Posted - 2011.01.04 09:25:00 -
[34]
Originally by: Mashie Saldana
Originally by: Ziaxi The only way anyone will believe you is if you request full disclosure from the GMs on the forums. Otherwise, you bought ISK.
This, please request full disclosure in the forums.
Yeah, we could do with another public lynching provided by CCP themselves.
--- The whole problem with the universe is that fools and fanatics are always certain of themselves, but wiser people are full of doubt. |
Ranka Mei
Caldari
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Posted - 2011.01.04 09:27:00 -
[35]
From a legal perspective, I must say that I'm indeed a little worried about the way CCP accuses/bans people. I mean, if you engaged in RMT, you're going down -- as you should. But like with any accused in any civilized system of Law, there ought to be a way to defend yourself, prior to CCP pronouncing a guilty verdict. Basically we trust them, almost implicitly, because of the old "They wouldn't just ban you if you were innocent!" mantra. But when CCP starts making mistakes -- and it would seem they really do, from time to time -- then it becomes bothersome. Yes, it's just a game; but it's also something people pour subscription fees into, every month. So it's not all that unreasonable that people should at least be granted a fair hearing.
Fat chance of it happening, of course, but I wouldn't mind if the CSM brought up the issue one day.
P.S. I occassionally send large amounts of money to an indy alt of mine. Usually so she can buy stuff for me, and transport it with the Orca; or some other perfectly legit reason. I always hope CCP is so clever as to grasp that these are alts of mine, paid with the same credit card, and played from the same IP address. But I'd hate to think I could become the victim of CCP's wanton banning hammer one day, and be stuck without a means to defend myself. And I'm just seeing too many people claiming to be falsely accused, of late.
At the very least I can only urge CCP to be fair about banning people, and to not just assume guilt. --
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Rian O'Shea
Stratos Manufacturing and Logistics
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Posted - 2011.01.04 09:52:00 -
[36]
Originally by: Ranka Mei From a legal perspective, I must say that I'm indeed a little worried about the way CCP accuses/bans people. I mean, if you engaged in RMT, you're going down -- as you should. But like with any accused in any civilized system of Law, there ought to be a way to defend yourself, prior to CCP pronouncing a guilty verdict. Basically we trust them, almost implicitly, because of the old "They wouldn't just ban you if you were innocent!" mantra. But when CCP starts making mistakes -- and it would seem they really do, from time to time -- then it becomes bothersome. Yes, it's just a game; but it's also something people pour subscription fees into, every month. So it's not all that unreasonable that people should at least be granted a fair hearing.
Fat chance of it happening, of course, but I wouldn't mind if the CSM brought up the issue one day.
P.S. I occassionally send large amounts of money to an indy alt of mine. Usually so she can buy stuff for me, and transport it with the Orca; or some other perfectly legit reason. I always hope CCP is so clever as to grasp that these are alts of mine, paid with the same credit card, and played from the same IP address. But I'd hate to think I could become the victim of CCP's wanton banning hammer one day, and be stuck without a means to defend myself. And I'm just seeing too many people claiming to be falsely accused, of late.
At the very least I can only urge CCP to be fair about banning people, and to not just assume guilt.
I bolded the important bit, you (and lots of people) have transferred billions upon billions between alts, friends and corp members. Yet, magically, never get accused of RMT or the like. the only situation I ever heard of was a production corp who's CEO had bought isk "injecting" it into the corp buying BPO's and all that, thus infecting his corp members as (per normal) there's all kinds of isk streams going back and forth in such a corp. Afaik, CCP removed the isk and items bought with said isk but left it at that.
While I'm no "trust the government" type I DO trust CCP in this simply because they're VERY careful with banning (as someone pointed out in this thread) to make sure they don't accidentally get the wrong guy. IF you get accused/caught there's an an overwhelming case going against you.
--- The whole problem with the universe is that fools and fanatics are always certain of themselves, but wiser people are full of doubt. |
Ranka Mei
Caldari
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Posted - 2011.01.04 10:11:00 -
[37]
Originally by: Rian O'Shea
I bolded the important bit, you (and lots of people) have transferred billions upon billions between alts, friends and corp members. Yet, magically, never get accused of RMT or the like. the only situation I ever heard of was a production corp who's CEO had bought isk "injecting" it into the corp buying BPO's and all that, thus infecting his corp members as (per normal) there's all kinds of isk streams going back and forth in such a corp. Afaik, CCP removed the isk and items bought with said isk but left it at that.
While I'm no "trust the government" type I DO trust CCP in this simply because they're VERY careful with banning (as someone pointed out in this thread) to make sure they don't accidentally get the wrong guy. IF you get accused/caught there's an an overwhelming case going against you.
Well, that's a least a reassurance. :) --
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Hivsen Ng
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Posted - 2011.01.04 10:21:00 -
[38]
You know, we all know that you RMT'ed.
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Hivsen Ng
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Posted - 2011.01.04 10:27:00 -
[39]
Originally by: Ranka Mei From a legal perspective.......... blah blah
You're comparing a game with real life mechanics? The world is the world because we made it so. More complexity as time went by.
In EvE, CCP are God. They can do whatever they want with your eve-life.
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Ranka Mei
Caldari
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Posted - 2011.01.04 10:37:00 -
[40]
Originally by: Hivsen Ng
Originally by: Ranka Mei From a legal perspective.......... blah blah
You're comparing a game with real life mechanics? The world is the world because we made it so. More complexity as time went by.
In EvE, CCP are God. They can do whatever they want with your eve-life.
What you apparently fail to see, is that real-life money is involved with playing EVE. Whenever that is the case, it behooves any decent company to make their banning decisions based on something ever-so slightly better than simply "We are GOD."
Also, just because they *can* do anything they want, doesn't mean they *should*, or that it's reasonable to do so. --
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Wiki Leaks
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Posted - 2011.01.04 10:47:00 -
[41]
This is your own fault for not cheating in ways CCP approve of.
Get your own GM account. Get your own macrobots. Sell your own ISK.
Stop buying ISK. Buying ISK is verboten.
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Carniflex
StarHunt R.A.G.E
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Posted - 2011.01.04 10:57:00 -
[42]
Originally by: Mashie Saldana
Originally by: Ziaxi The only way anyone will believe you is if you request full disclosure from the GMs on the forums. Otherwise, you bought ISK.
This, please request full disclosure in the forums.
Go ahead, ask for full public investigation. You know you want to - being innocent and all that.
Otherwise - it's not a rocket science. Dont buy isk. Is it really THAT hard to understand ?
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Pheusia
Gallente The Initiative.
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Posted - 2011.01.04 11:01:00 -
[43]
Originally by: Liang Nuren tl;dr: OP got busted for RMT and is crying about it and claiming he didn't do it.
Signed, Pheusia |
XenosisReaper
Rising Ashes Inc.
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Posted - 2011.01.04 11:34:00 -
[44]
My New Year's Resolution was to stop looking at GD.
This is why. Please stop being terrible on my time. |
Ifly Uwalk
Caldari Empire Tax Collection Agency
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Posted - 2011.01.04 12:17:00 -
[45]
Originally by: WhyTry1 i personally dont have a problem with RMT or macros to be honest
Obviously not...
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Pod Amarr
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Posted - 2011.01.04 12:30:00 -
[46]
Originally by: laksmi2 i was wrongly accused of macrotrading and permabanned some time last year.
i had to lick arses, disclose private info about myself and escalate the case for more than a month til they withdrew the ban.
whats bothering me is that ccp has absolute power of sometimes thousands of manhours of effort that flows into a char during the years (playing since beta here) there is nothing a player can do if ccp sticks to its wrong decision. the fact that they can hide behind their eula and do tous whatever they want is disturbing. a rl company acting that way would be bancrupted within days.
Actually they can not with a good lawyer you can sue. EULA is not the end of all your rights and if it breaks customer protection law those supersede what ever Eula there is. Also there is a the possibility to sue them in the US since they have Atlanta office which if the lawyer is good can succeed since US legal system is more flexible.
There is always ways although most folks not going to go through so much hassle because of a game but if you are determined enough you can try
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Destination SkillQueue
Are We There Yet
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Posted - 2011.01.04 12:52:00 -
[47]
Originally by: Pod Amarr
Originally by: laksmi2 i was wrongly accused of macrotrading and permabanned some time last year.
i had to lick arses, disclose private info about myself and escalate the case for more than a month til they withdrew the ban.
whats bothering me is that ccp has absolute power of sometimes thousands of manhours of effort that flows into a char during the years (playing since beta here) there is nothing a player can do if ccp sticks to its wrong decision. the fact that they can hide behind their eula and do tous whatever they want is disturbing. a rl company acting that way would be bancrupted within days.
Actually they can not with a good lawyer you can sue. EULA is not the end of all your rights and if it breaks customer protection law those supersede what ever Eula there is. Also there is a the possibility to sue them in the US since they have Atlanta office which if the lawyer is good can succeed since US legal system is more flexible.
There is always ways although most folks not going to go through so much hassle because of a game but if you are determined enough you can try
Don't encourage him. Even though a EULA doesn't precede the law, he doesn't have any basis to stand on if he makes a claim. It's still a contract and a pretty standard contract to boot in this case with no failure from CCP to deliver what it promised, so he has no chance in hell of succeeding.
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Tertiacero
Caldari JESUS CHRIST IT'S A LION GET IN THE CAR WE FORM VOLTRON
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Posted - 2011.01.04 13:47:00 -
[48]
Ohh, another one of these threads, apparently filled with alt posts and everything
Oh yeah. These always end well
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De'Veldrin
Minmatar Green-Core The Obsidian Legion
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Posted - 2011.01.04 13:56:00 -
[49]
Originally by: Mara Rinn
I'm only posting in this thread because Liang and De'Veldrin fed the trolls and I need to put an end to this foolishness :)
At least this one is half amusing. I got to bash the airline industry and laugh at stupid people all at once.
That's like going green right? I get a carbon credit or something? --Vel
I'm more of a care-badger. |
Aunty Nora
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Posted - 2011.01.04 13:59:00 -
[50]
Quote: From a legal perspective, I must say that I'm indeed a little worried about the way CCP accuses/bans people.
hahaha Obviously a stupid yank
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Tychus
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Posted - 2011.01.04 14:12:00 -
[51]
Me and a few corpies have exchanged hundreds of Billions of isk for various tasks over the years and never had any problems. It must be you m8. I suspect never having anything to do with RMT helps. Or maybe it is me. Tell ya what, send me your isk and i'll report it to CCP as a suspicious transaction. If the GM's don't take it away it must be clean.
oh come on, my Erebus fund needs help.
T
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sarah mcjimmy
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Posted - 2011.01.04 15:28:00 -
[52]
Just wondering, if I ask someone for a ransom of eg 20 million ISK and they've been doing RMT, does that mean I can have the money taken from me? Would I be tarred with the same brush just for handling 'dirty' ISK without realising?
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Hivsen Ng
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Posted - 2011.01.04 15:30:00 -
[53]
Originally by: Ranka Mei
Originally by: Hivsen Ng
Originally by: Ranka Mei From a legal perspective.......... blah blah
You're comparing a game with real life mechanics? The world is the world because we made it so. More complexity as time went by.
In EvE, CCP are God. They can do whatever they want with your eve-life.
What you apparently fail to see, is that real-life money is involved with playing EVE. Whenever that is the case, it behooves any decent company to make their banning decisions based on something ever-so slightly better than simply "We are GOD."
Also, just because they *can* do anything they want, doesn't mean they *should*, or that it's reasonable to do so.
You can play righteous all you want, but CCP still are in charge, even though we're giving them money. Shoulda, woulda, coulda, don't pretend that bringing morals in will justify just about anything you say.
CCP are God in this game, accept it. They can instaban anyone, and don't need to give a reason.
According to most MMO's. You're merely just "leasing" the game for a license with your subscription.
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Hivsen Ng
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Posted - 2011.01.04 15:47:00 -
[54]
Originally by: WhyTry1 Ah you got it wrong sir. i personally dont have a problem with RMT or macros to be honest, my problem is CCP clearly support it, falsely accuse the little people, remove isk, and then make them PAY WITH REAL MONEY for Plex that CCP then profits from.. Thats what bothers me son..
TL;DR
I dun have a probs with RMT, that's why I did it I heard CCP don't interfere and CLEARLY support it as seen here here and here, then I went and bought ISK. Now CCP has removed my ISK and set me with a negative balance, and I can't play anymore. Why can other people get away with it, but not me... I shall rant on forums and speak ill of CCP. I will talk about PLEX, that will start getting them to rip at each other.
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De'Veldrin
Minmatar Green-Core The Obsidian Legion
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Posted - 2011.01.04 15:53:00 -
[55]
Originally by: sarah mcjimmy Just wondering, if I ask someone for a ransom of eg 20 million ISK and they've been doing RMT, does that mean I can have the money taken from me? Would I be tarred with the same brush just for handling 'dirty' ISK without realising?
Yes. If CCP tracks the dirty ISK to you, they will (afaik) remove it. --Vel
I'm more of a care-badger. |
Taedrin
Gallente The Green Cross Sev3rance
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Posted - 2011.01.04 16:05:00 -
[56]
Edited by: Taedrin on 04/01/2011 16:07:40
Originally by: Hivsen Ng
Originally by: Ranka Mei
Originally by: Hivsen Ng
Originally by: Ranka Mei From a legal perspective.......... blah blah
You're comparing a game with real life mechanics? The world is the world because we made it so. More complexity as time went by.
In EvE, CCP are God. They can do whatever they want with your eve-life.
What you apparently fail to see, is that real-life money is involved with playing EVE. Whenever that is the case, it behooves any decent company to make their banning decisions based on something ever-so slightly better than simply "We are GOD."
Also, just because they *can* do anything they want, doesn't mean they *should*, or that it's reasonable to do so.
You can play righteous all you want, but CCP still are in charge, even though we're giving them money. Shoulda, woulda, coulda, don't pretend that bringing morals in will justify just about anything you say.
CCP are God in this game, accept it. They can instaban anyone, and don't need to give a reason.
According to most MMO's. You're merely just "leasing" the game for a license with your subscription.
Actually, this is not necessarily true. EULAs have not been thoroughly legally tested. If EULAs are so enforceable,then why do corporations use a clause that says "and if any part of the EULA is illegal, you agree to ignore the illegal part and be bound to the legal part"?
Quote:
Yes. If CCP tracks the dirty ISK to you, they will (afaik) remove it.
Not necessarily true. CCP will reverse player donations, but will NOT reverse legitimate market transactions, unless it is OBVIOUS that the transaction was used to launder ISK (example, 1 piece of trit sold for billions of ISK, or etc...)
IIRC, CCP *HAS* in the past removed ransom money, and I think even removed loot due to RMT. ----------
Originally by: Dr Fighter "how do you know when youve had a repro accident"
Theres modules missing and morphite in your mineral pile.
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Grez
Neo Spartans Laconian Syndicate
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Posted - 2011.01.04 16:09:00 -
[57]
Those who buy isk usually get it removed only, usually resulting in a negative wallet balance as your punishment.
ISK sellers or repeat offenders get the bans. So if you've been caught once or twice, you'll get banned. So if your corp mate, friend, brother, sister, or even girlfriend's left toe get banned, you know they've been caught at least once before. ---
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Widemouth Deepthroat
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Posted - 2011.01.04 16:13:00 -
[58]
Edited by: Widemouth Deepthroat on 04/01/2011 16:14:33
Originally by: Taedrin
Actually, this is not necessarily true. EULAs have not been thoroughly legally tested. If EULAs are so enforceable,then why do corporations use a clause that says "and if any part of the EULA is illegal, you agree to ignore the illegal part and be bound to the legal part"?
They do that so they don't have to check up on laws for every state/country and write up a different EULA for each.
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Ranger 1
Amarr Dynaverse Corporation Sodalitas XX
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Posted - 2011.01.04 16:19:00 -
[59]
Edited by: Ranger 1 on 04/01/2011 16:24:32 So far, in the few times when a gaming companies EULA has come under legal scrutiny, the EULA has been upheld (despite urban myths to the contrary).
Gentlemen, despite feelings to the contrary , EVE is a luxury... not an essential service. As such they are fully entitled to deny service to anyone who (in their opinion) is in violation of any part of their Terms of Service.
Of course, it behooves them to make fair and informed judgements in these situations. But to be honest they could ban a person for giving them a dirty look if they so desired... as long as it is at least loosely covered in their EULA. ===== My mission? To kill the enemy and break their toys SIR!!!. |
Akira Kurosaw
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Posted - 2011.01.04 16:21:00 -
[60]
Originally by: WhyTry1
Now another strange thing is, CCP state this is from KNOWN sellers, so why have CCP not banned that account immediately they where KNOWN? but instead allow (if so) more people to be victims of this? Why? Doesnt this seem a little strange?
This part is awesome if true, I mean leaving the sellers behind and banning (permaban i hope) the buyers who are a major reason there are sellers in the first place, thats just golden
p.s. the other reason is a slow and/or boring game and general ****tards
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