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Zilabeth Vomarr
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Posted - 2011.01.05 22:22:00 -
[1]
I can understand why you wouldn't want to allow combat capital ships in high sec, but I can't see that allowing the Rorqual into high sec would be in anyway unbalancing.
The primary justification for this would of course be that it would cool. While not particularly necessary, if it's not a balance disturbing change it would a lot of fun to have Rorquals moving around in high sec.
What do you think?
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Anhenka
Minmatar Bite me inc. Narwhals Ate My Duck
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Posted - 2011.01.05 22:28:00 -
[2]
Partially because CCP dosent want the rorqual boosts applied in highsec, they want that reserved for peopel who lowsec/nullsec mine.
The other part is because it would largely make the JF obsolete. If Rorq can travel in higsec and jump from there then it just becomes a Jf at 1/3 the price with half the cargo bay+ a SMA, a clone vat, and the ability to fit a heavy tank. AKA t1, and much better than the JF at a much lower cost for most tasks besides hualing POS fuels.
Plus capitals larger than freighters dont go in high because they are plain too damn big for the gates, and rorq is bigger than carriers/dreadnaughts.
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Zilabeth Vomarr
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Posted - 2011.01.05 22:41:00 -
[3]
Quote: Partially because CCP dosent want the rorqual boosts applied in highsec, they want that reserved for peopel who lowsec/nullsec mine.
That is true, though the boost from the Rorqual are not that much higher than what a Mining Director in a Orca supplies. Some, but not game breaking, especially in the sense that you get-what-you-pay-for given how much the Rorqual cost.
Quote: The other part is because it would largely make the JF obsolete. If Rorq can travel in higsec and jump from there then it just becomes a Jf at 1/3 the price with half the cargo bay+ a SMA, a clone vat, and the ability to fit a heavy tank. AKA t1, and much better than the JF at a much lower cost for most tasks besides hualing POS fuels.
There could be something to that, though don't know if they would make the JF obsolete given the JF's cargo space despite the price difference.
Quote: Plus capitals larger than freighters dont go in high because they are plain too damn big for the gates, and rorq is bigger than carriers/dreadnaughts.
Actual physical size has always been something of a "magical" issue with CCP. There are many ships I can put inside the ship array of my Orca whose models will not fit inside the model of the Orca.
Overall good points, but I still think coolness wins the day.
Thanks for the feedback.
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De'Veldrin
Minmatar Green-Core The Obsidian Legion
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Posted - 2011.01.05 22:49:00 -
[4]
Originally by: Zilabeth Vomarr
Overall good points, but I still think coolness wins the day.
Thanks for the feedback.
Game Balance > Coolness every day of the week. --Vel
I'm more of a care-badger. |
Johnny Wander
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Posted - 2011.01.05 22:56:00 -
[5]
Anything that could drive mineral prices lower is bad. Lower prices = less profit for your mining (unless you have a boosting Rorqual), less profit = more people turn to botting because of the effort/reward/entertainment factor.
And while that's just an estimate based off trends in the past (introduction of Drone space, Hulks, recent botting) and the real effect of letting Rorq's in hisec might be much different, it will still upset game balance. I'd bet my assets on it.
... And I Wander Away |
Zilabeth Vomarr
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Posted - 2011.01.05 23:02:00 -
[6]
Originally by: De'Veldrin Game Balance > Coolness every day of the week.
This is certainly true.
Perhaps the way I should have phrased my last line would be to say that while the previous poster does show that allowing Rorquals into high sec would have an impact (every change does) I would not consider the impact presented to detrimental to game balance.
Thanks for the feedback!
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Zilabeth Vomarr
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Posted - 2011.01.05 23:08:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Johnny Wander Anything that could drive mineral prices lower is bad. Lower prices = less profit for your mining (unless you have a boosting Rorqual), less profit = more people turn to botting because of the effort/reward/entertainment factor.
I'm not sure I agree this would be the effect, in general the prices drop in direct proportion to the ability to gather them. Generally, though very imprecisely, if I can gather 2x units of ore per hours based on a new mechanic, prices will drop by half. If we have more fun making the same about of Isk, this is a good change.
I certainly disagree with this thesis in general. By this logic we would be better off if Hulks were removed from the game making it harder to mine and therefore making prices go up. This would not reduce the number of bots, quite the contrary.
Thanks for the feedback!
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Juliette DuBois
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Posted - 2011.01.05 23:40:00 -
[8]
Although it may seem ridiculous, this ship could also be used for pvp. Capital hugging station pvp in high sec... I just let you imagine the rest.
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Jaina Sunspot
Agent-Orange Nabaal Syndicate
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Posted - 2011.01.06 00:00:00 -
[9]
No
Bonus 50% Range to Captal Shield Transporter.
EHP with only a Dmg Control is around 1 million
No one wants that kind of Logistics on the field in high sec Wars. There will be 30 of them sitting outside the 4-4 Dock and they won't be running a Mining OP.
Keep that kind of Logi where it belongs.
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Zilabeth Vomarr
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Posted - 2011.01.06 15:02:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Jaina Sunspot Edited by: Jaina Sunspot on 06/01/2011 00:10:00
No one wants that kind of Logistics on the field in high sec Wars. There will be 30 of them sitting outside the 4-4 Dock and they won't be running a Mining OP.
Keep that kind of Logi where it belongs.
I had not actually considered it's use as a pure logi ship. That might not be a good thing to have in high sec, although, since the Sansha Nation seems about to push capital ships into our high sec areas, perhaps fairs fair. :)
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Ydyp Ieva
Caldari Amarrian Retribution
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Posted - 2011.01.06 15:16:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Zilabeth Vomarr
Originally by: Jaina Sunspot Edited by: Jaina Sunspot on 06/01/2011 00:10:00
No one wants that kind of Logistics on the field in high sec Wars. There will be 30 of them sitting outside the 4-4 Dock and they won't be running a Mining OP.
Keep that kind of Logi where it belongs.
I had not actually considered it's use as a pure logi ship. That might not be a good thing to have in high sec, although, since the Sansha Nation seems about to push capital ships into our high sec areas, perhaps fairs fair. :)
If you are lucky enough to find a wormhole that leads from low to highsec and you can squeeze a capital through. You can also have a capital in highsec. But CCP has made wormholes so that this doesn't happen probably.
The Sansha's capitals are comming through wormholes and not by jumping cyno. ---------------------------------- None of yet! |
Morpheus Mishima
Caldari
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Posted - 2011.01.06 16:53:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Zilabeth Vomarr ... stuff ...
... What do you think?
I think CCP needs to make it so that anyone with less than 3 years of paid subscription wouldn't be allowed in to this section of the forum.
I'm quite sure that whatever Sansha stuff manages to make its way into highsec will be no problem for the residents there with the ships they have now.
Please don't make any more posts about changing/fixing/boosting mining by adding a ship or changing a stat on current ships. It will affect mining as it is today too much either way.
If you want to make changes to mining, start at the bottom and make it un-bot-able. Then try to make it more interesting than PI.
PS: Good luck with that ;)
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Zilabeth Vomarr
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Posted - 2011.01.06 21:45:00 -
[13]
Edited by: Zilabeth Vomarr on 06/01/2011 21:46:07 EDIT: Too easy, never mind.
Thanks for all the feedback folks!
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Zilberfrid
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Posted - 2011.01.07 00:07:00 -
[14]
I must compliment the OP, taking heavy opposition and not resorting to trolling is something we often lack here. ------------------------------------- I like to fly around and shoot stuff.
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Lucjan
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Posted - 2011.01.07 03:09:00 -
[15]
Can't make cynos in high sec, rorquals can't go through gates.
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Saelie
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Posted - 2011.01.07 04:11:00 -
[16]
The problem here is likely the battle-Rorqual. Insane logistics capabilities plus the tank of five or six buffer-tanked Abaddons, with respectable DPS to boot. Here's a fit I came up with off the top of my head:
[Hi-Sec Logistics Fun] Damage Control II Capacitor Power Relay II Capacitor Power Relay II
Cap Recharger II Cap Recharger II Cap Recharger II Cap Recharger II Cap Recharger II Invulnerability Field II Invulnerability Field II
Capital Shield Transporter I Capital Shield Transporter I Capital Shield Transporter I Clone Vat Bay I
Large Capacitor Control Circuit I Large Capacitor Control Circuit I Large Capacitor Control Circuit I
Drones_Active=Ogre II,5
Here's its stats: 1,189,305 EHP (Omni, all skills 5, no implants) 112500 shield (54.7 EM, 63.8 Therm, 72.8 Kin, 77.4 Exp) 37500 armor (Base resists) 312500 hull (60% all)
68200 cap, lasts 21m35s with all modules running. Repairs 900 shields per second with all three reppers running.
634 DPS w/ Ogre IIs, has enough room for 7 spares (Or a flight of sentries with 1 spare for each group)
As you can see, this would break high-sec PvP considerably since you have a godly logistics ship, equal to 2-3 Basilisks, that is also the toughest thing on the field by a factor of five and matches the battlecruisers for damage.
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Ranka Mei
Caldari
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Posted - 2011.01.07 04:29:00 -
[17]
I love it. :) Supported.
+1 --
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Thanat Ithos
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Posted - 2011.01.07 12:29:00 -
[18]
The idea of getting a ship like a rorqual into high sec is understandable for the view of the storyline...but I still agree itÆs to big and has features like cloning facility, jump drive and others which are not necessary for high sec. On the other hand I would agree the point of more need of the feature of ore compression. Today there is a complete set of modules (large tractor beam) and bpo æs ( ore compression bpoÆs) which are only useable by the rorqual. That does not make sense. The useage is too limited Maybe the solution could be a way in the middle. Make a T2 version of the orca, without jump drive, reduced cargo size but an ore compression unit and the possibility to use a large tractor beam.
Finally I also agree the point, regarding low mineral prices. Any increasing of mined ore will push the prices more down and make mining more and more non-profitable compared to other activities. But the solution could also be very simple. NPC market.
Explaination: Empires are at war, war needs ressources to build ships, where do the empires get the minerals for building ships? So the solution is, create a demanding npc market for minerals where the empires buy minerals from market. This way big masses of minerals can be taken out of player market -> prices of minerals will rise. Second effect CCP will have the possibility to influence the marketprices. If prices are low, npcÆs will pay better than market any prices will raise. If prices are too high, npc market will not buy, more minerals will stay in market, prices will go down.
I know the argument regarding û EVE is a pure player driven market. But to be honest, thatÆs not true. Also today there a common modules which are not available to be build by players (like moon survey probes) and as well any T1 stuff with a metalevel above 1 is not able to be build by players, they can only be looted. So itÆs still a npcÆ balanced market with a maybe 70-80% share of players.
Finally if CCP want to have a REALY player driven market it would be needed to give out BPOÆs of ALL T1 stuff including higher meta level modules. This would have the advantage that it would also become possible to create new T2 stuff. Example: 1600 mm armor steel plates I = T1 1600 mm armor rolled tungsten plate I = T1 1600 mm armor steel plates II = T2 1600 mm armor rolled tungsten plate = not existing, but would become possible with an available bpoÆs due to invention.
You see, there are ways for solutions, but the question is, wants CCP the solutionà..
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Robert Caldera
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Posted - 2011.01.07 14:56:00 -
[19]
Edited by: Robert Caldera on 07/01/2011 14:57:10
why should the rorq be available in high sec, you can go to low/0.0 and have a rorq there. Too unsafe?? Yeah... its the reason the rorq isnt in high sec, dude. It should be preserved for ppl who have the balls to leave mommys skirt (highsec) - risk vs. reward applies here.
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Zahira Wrath
Amarr Dominion Strategic
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Posted - 2011.01.07 15:28:00 -
[20]
I have to agree with both the OP and the other posters.
Pro: Mineral compression, boosting (that isen't that much better than an Orca), etc ... would be very cool in highsec. From the industrial side of things I don't think it would really be game changing or overpowered really. Personally i'd love one in highsec. (JF market might be affected ... but you hardly ever see those in highsec anyways)
Cons: The logistics "battle Rorqual" would seriously unbalance highsec wars. Just as one guy said, there would be a few of these parked outside Jita and Amarr, just waiting to do shield logistics and Orge II empire war targets. I think a hardened, damage controlled, Rorqual would be way to difficult to kill in highsec. Especially if there were a few of them spider tanking each other.
Conclusion: I don't think its a good idea. The battle rorqual would ... well ... be a major nuissance in empire.
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raknor bile
Gallente Interstellar eXodus BricK sQuAD.
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Posted - 2011.01.07 16:30:00 -
[21]
Edited by: raknor bile on 07/01/2011 16:32:08 Edited by: raknor bile on 07/01/2011 16:30:26 name a single subcapital vessle that can take on a battle fit rorq. they would not be used for that much mining. [Rorqual, battle rorq] Damage Control II Power Diagnostic System II Power Diagnostic System II
Capital Shield Booster I Shield Boost Amplifier II Invulnerability Field II Invulnerability Field II Republic Fleet Warp Disruptor Heavy Capacitor Booster II, Cap Booster 800 Heavy Capacitor Booster II, Cap Booster 800
Heavy Energy Neutralizer II Heavy Energy Neutralizer II Heavy Energy Neutralizer II Heavy Energy Neutralizer II Heavy Energy Neutralizer II Republic Fleet Large Proton Smartbomb
Large Capacitor Control Circuit I Large Capacitor Control Circuit I Large Capacitor Control Circuit I
Ogre II x5 not to sure sub caps would be able to take this thing on.
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Anubis Xian
Word Bearers of Chaos
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Posted - 2011.01.07 16:37:00 -
[22]
I think CCP can allow Dreads into hi sec. There is no worry about them doing anything overpowered.
Originally by: CCP Oveur The client handles no logic, it is simply a dumb terminal.
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Ashley Thomas
Curatores Veritatis Alliance
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Posted - 2011.01.07 18:22:00 -
[23]
Has anyone cared to mention that this is exactly why CCP made Orcas?
Veritatum Cognoscere |
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