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Travis Ishikawa
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Posted - 2011.01.07 21:02:00 -
[1]
Having trouble finding any in-depth info on e-war drones. How effective are ECM drones? Assuming you had skill to V, are we talking about jamming a target frequently or is it more like a bonus when it works? Also, do most pilots even consider using ECM drones offensively or just for GTFO? Is it advisable to mix damage and ECM drones?
If anyone knows of a good guide I would be grateful for the link. Thanks in advance!
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Salicaz
Caldari draketrain
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Posted - 2011.01.07 21:05:00 -
[2]
I don't use them myself but the few scenarios I have seen them used are to attempt to jam the target so you can escape (you see alot of ECM drones in space idle).
And also (more effectively I would say) is deploying them against Logistics in a fleet. A swarm of ecm hornets heading to logistics can mess **** up.
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Dr Fighter
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Posted - 2011.01.07 21:32:00 -
[3]
any pvper with more than a few fights under his belt will fit 5x light ECM first everytime.
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Sinister Dextor
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Posted - 2011.01.07 21:35:00 -
[4]
When You use ECM drones, they never work, when ECM drones are used on you, prepare to be perma jammed.
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Tau Cabalander
Caldari
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Posted - 2011.01.07 22:05:00 -
[5]
Edited by: Tau Cabalander on 07/01/2011 22:13:07
The chance to jam depends on: the number of drones, the jam strength of the drones, and the sensor strength of the ship being jammed.
Chance to jam = 1 - (1 - Jam Strength / Sensor Strength)^Jammers
For example:
* 5x EC-300 light drones vs. Rokh (highest sensor strength battleship) 1 - (1 - 1/25)^5 = 18.46% * 5x EC-300 light drones vs. Drake 1 - (1 - 1/19)^5 = 23.69% * 5x EC-300 light drones vs. Caracal 1 - (1 - 1/15)^5 = 29.18% * 5x EC-300 light drones vs. Rifter 1 - (1 - 1/8)^5 = 48.71%
* 5x EC-600 medium drones vs. Rokh 1 - (1 - 1.5/25)^5 = 26.61% * 5x EC-600 medium drones vs. Drake 1 - (1 - 1.5/19)^5 = 33.71% * 5x EC-600 medium drones vs. Caracal 1 - (1 - 1.5/15)^5 = 40.95% * 5x EC-600 medium drones vs. Rifter 1 - (1 - 1.5/8)^5 = 64.59%
* 5x EC-900 heavy drones vs. Rokh 1 - (1 - 2/25)^5 = 34.09% * 5x EC-900 heavy drones vs. Drake 1 - (1 - 2/19)^5 = 42.66% * 5x EC-900 heavy drones vs. Caracal 1 - (1 - 2/15)^5 = 51.11% * 5x EC-900 heavy drones vs. Rifter 1 - (1 - 2/8)^5 = 76.27%
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Aerilis
Gallente Percussive Diplomacy
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Posted - 2011.01.07 22:51:00 -
[6]
Originally by: Sinister Dextor When You use ECM drones, they never work, when ECM drones are used on you, prepare to be perma jammed.
THIS. THIS A MILLION TIMES OVER. MAKES ME RAGE.
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Soldarius
Caldari Northstar Cabal R.A.G.E
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Posted - 2011.01.10 06:16:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Tau Cabalander The chance to jam depends on: the number of drones, the jam strength of the drones, and the sensor strength of the ship being jammed.
True.
Originally by: Tau Cabalander
Chance to jam = 1 - (1 - Jam Strength / Sensor Strength)^Jammers
Not true. What math are you using? Your formulas do not work out.
Not that it matters as you're using the wrong formula anyway. Fraction chance to jam to the 5th? No, mate. The chances to jam are additive per drone. Every drone has a jam strength/sensor strength chance to jam per cycle, just like a normal ECM module. Your total probability to jam the target ship per cycle per flight of drones is (Jam strength / Sensor Strength) x number of drones. This is only a probability. They could all jam, or none of them jam. You only use the exponent for consecutive runs of one particular result recurring.
With a 25 sensor strength BS targeted by a flight of 5 EC-300 Hornets, you would have a 5 in 25 chance of jamming, or 20% per cycle.
Originally by: Manowar With dreams to be a king first one should be a man.
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Deen Wispa
Gallente GHF Corperation
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Posted - 2011.01.10 06:39:00 -
[8]
was considering using webifier drones in either a Ishkur or a Vexor or Thorax to slow down the enemy before I can apply blasters up close. is this a viable strategy considering gallente ships are so slow -----------------
I demand Excellence from my corpies. So should you. |
foksieloy
Minmatar Universal Army
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Posted - 2011.01.10 06:48:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Soldarius stuff
His math is correct. Your math is not.
_______________________ Drink Eau du Nichup«, the taste of heaven. Now available as Nichup Citrus« as well! |
Tau Cabalander
Caldari
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Posted - 2011.01.10 07:19:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Soldarius
Originally by: Tau Cabalander
Chance to jam = 1 - (1 - Jam Strength / Sensor Strength)^Jammers
Not true. What math are you using? Your formulas do not work out.
1. You only need one drone to jam. 2. Chance to jam with one jammer = Jam Strength / Sensor Strength 3. Chance to jam with multiple jammers = chance at least one jammer succeeds = 1 - chance to fail with all jammers
See the The Definitive Guide to Electronic Warfare.
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fishyink
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Posted - 2011.01.10 07:39:00 -
[11]
think it also depends on the ship ure jaming, i had a noob ship fight on the sisi server once and my choise of drone was 1 ec-300 drone, and prety much perma jammed the other noob ship |
Soldarius
Caldari Northstar Cabal R.A.G.E
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Posted - 2011.01.10 09:34:00 -
[12]
Edited by: Soldarius on 10/01/2011 09:45:28 reserved. Reviewing binomial probability.
Originally by: CCP Shadow ...I cannot guarantee (my) sobriety or decency.
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Aerilis
Gallente Percussive Diplomacy
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Posted - 2011.01.10 14:10:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Deen Wispa was considering using webifier drones in either a Ishkur or a Vexor or Thorax to slow down the enemy before I can apply blasters up close. is this a viable strategy considering gallente ships are so slow
In Gallente ships, drones typically make up a significant portion of your DPS (1/3 or more), so it's not advisable to use weird-ish drones like webbing drones. ECM drones are viable (Thorax with 5x vespas comes to mind), but the only real instance where I can see webbing drones being justified is on a battleship or something, to slow down targets so your lumbering ass can actually hit them.
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Argosus
Waverunners
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Posted - 2011.01.10 14:23:00 -
[14]
Edited by: Argosus on 10/01/2011 14:26:34
Originally by: Deen Wispa was considering using webifier drones in either a Ishkur or a Vexor or Thorax to slow down the enemy before I can apply blasters up close. is this a viable strategy considering gallente ships are so slow
Web drones only come in heavy variety.(25mbit bandwidth each) You would only be able use 1 with the ishkur, 2 with the thorax and 3 with the vexor. Since the ishkur and vexor get most their damage from their drones i would suggest that this would be a waste of the ships bonus's. A webbing thorax tho, now that might be interesting.
oh and ecm drones.... Vastly overpowered. I got tackled by a fast orbiting vigil once with 1 light ecm drone in my zealot. I was pretty much perma jammed for 10 mins. Might be slight exaggeration but in all honesty, it didn't miss many jams. Lucky i a friend not to far away to come to my rescue LOL
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rodensteiner
Amarr Shioshi Capital Storm
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Posted - 2011.01.10 14:42:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Aerilis
Originally by: Sinister Dextor When You use ECM drones, they never work, when ECM drones are used on you, prepare to be perma jammed.
THIS. THIS A MILLION TIMES OVER. MAKES ME RAGE.
QFT!!1! >.<
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I'm horrible at PVP |
Othran
Ad Infernum
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Posted - 2011.01.10 15:33:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Deen Wispa was considering using webifier drones in either a Ishkur or a Vexor or Thorax to slow down the enemy before I can apply blasters up close. is this a viable strategy considering gallente ships are so slow
No.
The web drones get the normal stacking nerf that modules get (as do EV, SD, TD & TP drones) but are also hideously slow. All of these drones are pretty much useless when you consider what damage/ECM drones you could use instead.
Its a shame but they are worthless in pretty much all instances.
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Tammarr
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Posted - 2011.01.10 17:30:00 -
[17]
Nothing wrong with two drone omnidirs and a flight of webbers on a dominix, that big websphere was quite usefull back in the nanoage ^^
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Dirk Magnum
Blue Republic
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Posted - 2011.01.10 18:12:00 -
[18]
Fun fact: a Carrier can be jammed by a light ECM drone. Apparently the way the jam formula works out there is always at a least a minimal chance for a successful jam. ECMs are usually a valid option, except in fights you expect to be over in under one or two cycles of the drones, or when damage drones will end the fight in your favor more reliably.
As for web drones... well I dunno. Can a Megathron with neutron blaster cannons reliably hit a cruiser that's webbed by five web drones? If yes then we may be on to something. I guess.
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Travis Ishikawa
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Posted - 2011.01.10 19:28:00 -
[19]
Thanks for the bounty of info here. I really appreciate all the great replies.
What about mixing your drones:
Quote: n Gallente ships, drones typically make up a significant portion of your DPS (1/3 or more)
This is what I would be worried about. The whole idea about using the ECM drones for me was just to be a little more unpredictable. Is it a no-no to mix a flight of drones, say 3 ECM and 2 combat or is this just a bad strategy; kind of like trying to fit a shield and an armor tank?
Thanks again
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Aerilis
Gallente Percussive Diplomacy
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Posted - 2011.01.10 19:47:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Travis Ishikawa Thanks for the bounty of info here. I really appreciate all the great replies.
What about mixing your drones:
Quote: n Gallente ships, drones typically make up a significant portion of your DPS (1/3 or more)
This is what I would be worried about. The whole idea about using the ECM drones for me was just to be a little more unpredictable. Is it a no-no to mix a flight of drones, say 3 ECM and 2 combat or is this just a bad strategy; kind of like trying to fit a shield and an armor tank?
Thanks again
There's nothing mathematically wrong with that, it's the same tradeoff between DPS/jamming as switching your entire flight of drones. But the typical mindset seems to be if you're going for jams, then you might as well go for as many jams as you can and use all ECM drones.
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Dirk Magnum
Blue Republic
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Posted - 2011.01.11 01:42:00 -
[21]
Edited by: Dirk Magnum on 11/01/2011 01:42:56
Originally by: Aerilis
Originally by: Travis Ishikawa Thanks for the bounty of info here. I really appreciate all the great replies.
What about mixing your drones:
Quote: n Gallente ships, drones typically make up a significant portion of your DPS (1/3 or more)
This is what I would be worried about. The whole idea about using the ECM drones for me was just to be a little more unpredictable. Is it a no-no to mix a flight of drones, say 3 ECM and 2 combat or is this just a bad strategy; kind of like trying to fit a shield and an armor tank?
Thanks again
There's nothing mathematically wrong with that, it's the same tradeoff between DPS/jamming as switching your entire flight of drones. But the typical mindset seems to be if you're going for jams, then you might as well go for as many jams as you can and use all ECM drones.
I agree with the all-out ECM opinion tbh. Since there are no skills or hardwirings to boost the effectiveness of ECM drones, you're limited to the base factors that determine an ECM drone jam. I'm not opposed to mixing drones (one webber and four light scouts, for instance), but with the jammers you're looking at a chance-based effectiveness situation, so it'll almost certainly be the wisest decision to just go all-out with them.
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CzeroX
Gallente Quantum Cats Syndicate
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Posted - 2011.01.11 05:54:00 -
[22]
Edited by: CzeroX on 11/01/2011 06:03:08 EFT shows the percentage that a ship can be jammed by ECM drones. You can put the ECM drones, however many and the size you want, in the "projected effects" area under the ship's "Modules" window and the percent jammed result is shown in the ship's targeting area. I can't say how accurate the function is, but I'd guess it's pretty good. Also, it looks like the other types of electronic warfare drones, webbers, neuts and so on, can be used in this way on EFT as well.
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Ira Black
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Posted - 2011.01.11 11:01:00 -
[23]
I prefer ECM drones for breaking locks. Works nice against an unsupported BS. For permajamming drones aren't that great imho |
Dr Lebroi
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Posted - 2011.01.11 18:20:00 -
[24]
Don't worry about it too much, drones are getting chucked out soon to placate the wrath of the lag monster.
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