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John Revenent
Caldari Revenent Defence Corperation Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive
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Posted - 2011.01.09 08:28:00 -
[61]
Quite interesting, while we have no say on Amarrian matters such as this. It would seem from a outside view that both sides have made mistakes. But I won't bore you all with the pointing of fingers.
Quote: Our association with CVA has been in place for more than 3 years and in that time I have never known them to act dishonorbly.
You would be surprised Mr. Talamar... Perhaps not to you or your organization yet.
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Alica Wildfire
Minmatar Federal Investigations Agency
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Posted - 2011.01.09 08:33:00 -
[62]
Boooooring. Talking, talking, talking, blahblahblah. I want kills! Sahtogas is a free system you should be allowed to put your tower up there. Especially as you are CVA related.
Amarr Retribution is playing "police force" for that matter they say, means they attacked your POS.
You don't let that happen again, no? Lowsec is like zerosec, CVA. Com'on just go in and take it. Kick some asses. I want to see wrecks. Not damn talking. You must be all very furious right now? So why do you still talk? Do you have any fear of your enemy? Nah.
Asking permission of setting up a tower in lowsec? Since when? You only ask local pirates for things like that if you are too weak to protect your tower yourself.
Stop that damn taking. Is killing all the fun! -- FREEDOM, PUNK & AUTOCANNONS
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Aldrith Shutaq
Amarr Knighthood of the Merciful Crown
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Posted - 2011.01.09 10:02:00 -
[63]
Originally by: King Rothgar Your corp is blue with dragoon federation you know.
Not any longer, actually. We had certian ties with one of their corporations but those have been severed since they have left the alliance. Besides these new complications, I really saw little reason to carry on a non-agression pact with them. You should inform their dipolmats as I have neglected to do so myself.
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Ospie
The Python Cartel. The Defenders of Pen Island
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Posted - 2011.01.09 10:14:00 -
[64]
Edited by: Ospie on 09/01/2011 10:15:59
Originally by: King Rothgar
Originally by: Lyn Farel
Originally by: Har Harrison
Originally by: Garreck Your "evidence" does not address who fired first, only who fired last. Obviously we're going to take the word of a friendly organization over that of an organization we've never encountered before.
If you wish to remain hostile, that's fine. If this is all a big misunderstanding, please get in touch with CVA diplomats. These sort of incidents frankly bore me; we have much on our plate in Providence and it is a matter of record that CVA does not generally operate in the Crusade's area of influence. That CVA should be a centerpiece in this is laughable first of all, and insulting to Cardinal Graelyn second. We simply destroyed vessels belonging to an unfamiliar organization engaged in hostilities with a friendly alliance. The apparently considerable background to all of this is of no interest what so ever.
So you would take the word of an neutral organisation over that of the militia???
I would too. The Militia is full of spies, worms, and pirates, and that is no big news.
Having to chose between The CVA policies and a militia corp operating with pirates like Dragoon Federation ? Easy choice for me if I wasn't in the Militia too.
Your corp is blue with dragoon federation you know.
TBH you guys are scrubs. There's a good reason why when I was CEO of CORIM that I did not pursue further relations with you, whilst we pursued interests with the majority of the Amarr Empire corporations. I was dealing with reasoning far beyond your own, that you are still not privy too; needless to say I endorse the actions of CORIM and CVA in the recent attack upon your renegade corporation. You forget who you talk to peon.
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Cheiftan
Minmatar Shinryaku
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Posted - 2011.01.09 11:16:00 -
[65]
*Chuckles*
You lot keep fighting
Dont mind me while i play vulture...
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Balder Con
Caldari Anti-Anti Piwats Incorporated
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Posted - 2011.01.09 12:43:00 -
[66]
Edited by: Balder Con on 09/01/2011 12:43:08
Originally by: King Rothgar
We are the police force of the area. As such we have the authority to grant/revoke permission to put up POS's in our space for neutral entities such as talcorp.
im stil waiting for Amarrian Retribution to come remove my pos . |
Lyn Farel
Knighthood of the Merciful Crown
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Posted - 2011.01.09 14:04:00 -
[67]
Edited by: Lyn Farel on 09/01/2011 14:04:15
Originally by: King Rothgar
Originally by: Lyn Farel
Originally by: Har Harrison
Originally by: Garreck Your "evidence" does not address who fired first, only who fired last. Obviously we're going to take the word of a friendly organization over that of an organization we've never encountered before.
If you wish to remain hostile, that's fine. If this is all a big misunderstanding, please get in touch with CVA diplomats. These sort of incidents frankly bore me; we have much on our plate in Providence and it is a matter of record that CVA does not generally operate in the Crusade's area of influence. That CVA should be a centerpiece in this is laughable first of all, and insulting to Cardinal Graelyn second. We simply destroyed vessels belonging to an unfamiliar organization engaged in hostilities with a friendly alliance. The apparently considerable background to all of this is of no interest what so ever.
So you would take the word of an neutral organisation over that of the militia???
I would too. The Militia is full of spies, worms, and pirates, and that is no big news.
Having to chose between The CVA policies and a militia corp operating with pirates like Dragoon Federation ? Easy choice for me if I wasn't in the Militia too.
Your corp is blue with dragoon federation you know.
I was specifically told that this NAP status was necessary for the war against Locus Industries and was to last only one mounth. As stated by Mr Shutaq above, this NAP is going to an end, and I will gladly engage D-Fed again.
As stated above by other militia members either, D-Fed do not care of the Militia. They agress everyone they see fit and I have myself been fighting against them at the side of another corp of the Amarr Confido (Fremens Space Tribe) for mounths.
The only thing that annoys me is that you too are part of the Confido and have made a great record for the Crusade in the past years, so I am quite sad to see you behaving like vulgar low sec pirates. I hope the questionable company you keep with D-Fed has not altered your ethics. Fighting for the Empire does not mean that you can get involved in piracy, attack neutral entities and such because the Empress gave you a mandate against the tribals.
I have to admit thought that I am very surprised to see the CVA directly responding with brute force without any inquiry and diplomatic talk beforehand. Seems like a lot of things has changed recently in their methods. I do think Mr Revenant is quite right in his interpretation of the facts.
In all honesty, I feel now quite desillusionned about both ARETR and CVA, and hope both entities will come to a peaceful end. |
Alica Wildfire
Minmatar Federal Investigations Agency
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Posted - 2011.01.09 14:14:00 -
[68]
I really meant what I was saying. And even if I am personally amused by the situation, the whole thing is quite serious.
Here are figthing two ideals of how people should be organised with each other. The idea of the Empire is strictly hierarchic. It is not a question of respect, because there is no place for respect in a hierarchy. It is always a question of rank and power. Of who is superior to the other. There are no equals in a hierarchy.
The ideal to live together in our Tribal community is based on several "barbaric" values. The first one is respect. You respect everyone in your community and this means it is not important if he's stronger or weaker, richer or poorer than yourself. Everybody deserves respect because we are a community of equals. All humans are equal and have the same rights. And deserve the same respect. Respect and pride are barbaric values. Of cause I don't have to explain the barbaric values and what I do mean with it, cause everybody knows about. But I think it is good to mention it here.
Because it is what the Republic stands for, no, what whole Matar society stands for. Barbaric values have to be exterminated because they stand in the way of hierarchy. Values like freedom, like pride, respect and all this is in opposition to order and obey.
The main value in the Empire is to keep the order. And to know where your place in this order is. The place you have will give you certain privileges above the others. And obligations to those who are above your position. What is not forbidden is duty. There is no place for freedom in the Empire. The total Empire is the total hierarchy, is the total "civilisation".
We Minmatar are a living rebellion against this system. And if you think you are fighting for the Empire and you shall be respected for the duties you have, I say you are fighting on the wrong side of the border.
Respect? You are fighting for our cause, dear Amarrians. Respect is not what you get from your kind. What you do is your duty for it is the place you have in your hierarchy. It is not something that you do of free will. It is something that you must do because you are what you are. There is no pride in your position. You are not a proud warrior, you are a slave of your Empress. And a slave does not leave his place of domain, a slave always obeys, a slave has no rights and a slave has to shut up.
I'm not saying you should. I'm a rebel. I say it's good what you do. But… you are fighting for our cause, dear Enemy. Consider that deep in your mind and if there are any questions left you have to decide yourself where you see your position.
Is your position inside the hen-ladder of hierarchy of your Empire or do you follow tribal values of pride, of freedom of honour? Are you a servant, a slave to your Empress or are you a rebel?
This is the real question that you have to answer yourself. I can not do it for you, but it is clearly a crossroad where you stand. Bow to the authority or deny it and say the word that makes a slave to a free man: "no!" -- FREEDOM, PUNK & AUTOCANNONS
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Templar Dane
Amarrian Retribution
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Posted - 2011.01.09 18:32:00 -
[69]
Originally by: Ospie
There's a good reason why when I was CEO of CORIM that I did not pursue further relations with you.
CORIM has always had limited contact with other amarr militia corps in actual engagements. CORIM doesn't involve itself with capturing systems or fighting in militia fleets. What it does, and has always done, is leech intel which it uses to get easy engagements.
And I totally do not understand what you mean by "renegade". That is a term better used to describe CORIM.
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The Jackhammer
Interstellar Brotherhood of Gravediggers The 0rphanage
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Posted - 2011.01.09 18:51:00 -
[70]
I am a little diappointed at CVA on this one .. I have flow with [ARETR] and have found them to be nothing but honorable towards the Amarrian milita and its cause.
I will be speaking to my alliance leader concerning these matters.
Mmmmm,
The Jackhammer
Banners and Signatures by: Kalen Vox
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Templar Dane
Amarrian Retribution
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Posted - 2011.01.09 18:58:00 -
[71]
Originally by: Lyn Farel
The only thing that annoys me is that you too are part of the Confido and have made a great record for the Crusade in the past years, so I am quite sad to see you behaving like vulgar low sec pirates. I hope the questionable company you keep with D-Fed has not altered your ethics. Fighting for the Empire does not mean that you can get involved in piracy, attack neutral entities and such because the Empress gave you a mandate against the tribals.
If that comment is directed at ARETR...
I am a privateer. I will take down any neutral I have the capability and opportunity to, unless I am told first that the pilot/s has/have connections to our militia or to our allies. You have not lived in Sahtogas for a long time like I have, and I doubt you have lived in low sec for as long as I have. That neutral abaddon that could be doing missions, might be a spy or bait or any number of things that are not good for local security.
We live in lowsec. We live for warfare. We live for the Empire.
We also live in reality. Neutrals cannot be allowed to flourish in our systems. If we let them plant roots, they will become a danger to ourselves and our allies.
Look at ILD, they have a POS in Haras that has multiple ships of multiple classes inside the shield that are unpiloted. Sometimes there are different ships in there, they change from time to time. In our defense of Haras, those ships showing up on directional scanner is confusing to many of our newer pilots and we get false intel on minmatar movements inside the system on a daily basis. We first brought up this issue with them 6-18 months ago while they were in our militia. They said they'd do something about it, but rather than dock them in a hangar they left them where they are.
We've debated that issue internally for the same period of time, and have yet to make a move or even change standings towards them....all because they were once in the militia.
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Balder Con
Caldari Anti-Anti Piwats Incorporated
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Posted - 2011.01.09 19:33:00 -
[72]
Edited by: Balder Con on 09/01/2011 19:33:05
Originally by: Templar Dane
I am a privateer. I will take down any neutral I have the capability and opportunity to, Y.
im a nuetral and have a pos in fw and im stil waiting ..... . |
Emo Dodo
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Posted - 2011.01.09 19:41:00 -
[73]
Edited by: Emo Dodo on 09/01/2011 19:41:52 ...
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Templar Dane
Amarrian Retribution
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Posted - 2011.01.09 19:50:00 -
[74]
Originally by: Balder Con
im a nuetral and have a pos in fw and im stil waiting .....
I know you'd love me to one-man-army you and your friends in their supercarriers, but I don't really see that happening.
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Snake O'Donell
Gallente Core Impulse
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Posted - 2011.01.09 19:53:00 -
[75]
Edited by: Snake O''Donell on 09/01/2011 19:53:19
Originally by: Templar Dane
Originally by: Balder Con
im a nuetral and have a pos in fw and im stil waiting .....
I know you'd love me to one-man-army you and your friends in their supercarriers, but I don't really see that happening.
All bark and no bite...
I'm sick of all this talking. Put up or shutup slave.
oh wai...
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Balder Con
Caldari Anti-Anti Piwats Incorporated
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Posted - 2011.01.09 19:54:00 -
[76]
Edited by: Balder Con on 09/01/2011 19:54:18
Originally by: Templar Dane
Originally by: Balder Con
im a nuetral and have a pos in fw and im stil waiting .....
I know you'd love me to one-man-army you and your friends in their supercarriers, but I don't really see that happening.
wel thads kinde of discrimanating of u just cuz i have friends whit ships ur not gone shoot my tower while u do shoot a cear bear corps tower whit more members . |
Templar Dane
Amarrian Retribution
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Posted - 2011.01.09 19:57:00 -
[77]
Originally by: Balder Con
wel thads kinde of discrimanating of u just cuz i have friends whit ships ur not gone shoot my tower while u do shoot a cear bear corps tower whit more members
Until a few minutes ago you had never stepped on my toes that I know of.
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Balder Con
Caldari Anti-Anti Piwats Incorporated
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Posted - 2011.01.09 19:59:00 -
[78]
wel over her in holland we have wooden shous ( klompen ) so when i step on ur toes it realy hurts . |
Snake O'Donell
Gallente Core Impulse
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Posted - 2011.01.09 20:00:00 -
[79]
Originally by: Templar Dane
Originally by: Balder Con
wel thads kinde of discrimanating of u just cuz i have friends whit ships ur not gone shoot my tower while u do shoot a cear bear corps tower whit more members
Until a few minutes ago you had never stepped on my toes that I know of.
Still waiting for you and your buddies to do something worth posting about...
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ja gilbey
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Posted - 2011.01.09 20:02:00 -
[80]
Edited by: ja gilbey on 09/01/2011 20:03:52
Originally by: Snake O'Donell
Originally by: Templar Dane
Originally by: Balder Con
wel thads kinde of discrimanating of u just cuz i have friends whit ships ur not gone shoot my tower while u do shoot a cear bear corps tower whit more members
Where is this POS you want shot so bad?
Remember God said and i quote "Sometimes people get what they ask for"
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Balder Con
Caldari Anti-Anti Piwats Incorporated
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Posted - 2011.01.09 20:09:00 -
[81]
Edited by: Balder Con on 09/01/2011 20:09:40 Edited by: Balder Con on 09/01/2011 20:09:16
Originally by: ja gilbey
Where is this POS you want shot so bad?
Remember God said and i quote "Sometimes people get what they ask for"
send in game now lets c if u guys have any e balls . |
Snake O'Donell
Gallente Core Impulse
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Posted - 2011.01.09 20:09:00 -
[82]
Originally by: ja gilbey Edited by: ja gilbey on 09/01/2011 20:03:52
Originally by: Snake O'Donell
Originally by: Templar Dane
Originally by: Balder Con
wel thads kinde of discrimanating of u just cuz i have friends whit ships ur not gone shoot my tower while u do shoot a cear bear corps tower whit more members
Where is this POS you want shot so bad?
Remember God said and i quote "Sometimes people get what they ask for"
I remember god once said: "start talking with your guns".
This is obviously something you are pretty terrible at.
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Lyn Farel
Knighthood of the Merciful Crown
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Posted - 2011.01.09 23:15:00 -
[83]
Edited by: Lyn Farel on 09/01/2011 23:15:56
Originally by: Templar Dane
Originally by: Lyn Farel
The only thing that annoys me is that you too are part of the Confido and have made a great record for the Crusade in the past years, so I am quite sad to see you behaving like vulgar low sec pirates. I hope the questionable company you keep with D-Fed has not altered your ethics. Fighting for the Empire does not mean that you can get involved in piracy, attack neutral entities and such because the Empress gave you a mandate against the tribals.
If that comment is directed at ARETR...
I am a privateer. I will take down any neutral I have the capability and opportunity to, unless I am told first that the pilot/s has/have connections to our militia or to our allies. You have not lived in Sahtogas for a long time like I have, and I doubt you have lived in low sec for as long as I have. That neutral abaddon that could be doing missions, might be a spy or bait or any number of things that are not good for local security.
We live in lowsec. We live for warfare. We live for the Empire.
We also live in reality. Neutrals cannot be allowed to flourish in our systems. If we let them plant roots, they will become a danger to ourselves and our allies.
Look at ILD, they have a POS in Haras that has multiple ships of multiple classes inside the shield that are unpiloted. Sometimes there are different ships in there, they change from time to time. In our defense of Haras, those ships showing up on directional scanner is confusing to many of our newer pilots and we get false intel on minmatar movements inside the system on a daily basis. We first brought up this issue with them 6-18 months ago while they were in our militia. They said they'd do something about it, but rather than dock them in a hangar they left them where they are.
We've debated that issue internally for the same period of time, and have yet to make a move or even change standings towards them....all because they were once in the militia.
You doubt that I have not spent as much time as you have in low sec ? Actually I have since my beginnings, but whatever. That kind of rehtorics is so lame.
Thank you for making it definitly clear though. |
Lost InCogneto
Amarrian Retribution
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Posted - 2011.01.10 00:12:00 -
[84]
Aretr does feel the need to discuss to our allies that we have never chosen a side against them mealy respected never to blue on blue. Once you blue on blue you loose that trust which we have not done. Tell me if you were blue and turned on your blues with out notification or warning which has happened so much in the past from 0.0 to small corporations where does that leave your corporation.
Like corps that have blue standings you at your discretion will determine when you reevaluate these, now we have been thrust into the public which was never our intention, we will continue to take flack despite these corps and alliances being hypocritical for there own agenda.
While cva seems to have been pulled into this due to comments we understand there right to defend blues, we all do that, but it was the way it was done. ARETR has no more public comment about that towards cva out of respect we have to loyalist Amarr FW corporations that are loyal to us and them.
We are a Amarr FW corp here to fight for the Empire in FW and we are here to stay. We are also a pvp corp (not a carebear corp, well some members are ;p) that live in low sec where we reside are here to stay.
Even now from the public light neutrals are coming into the area to see and attack us and we do what we do best we fight them. But on our terms.
Aretr have fought from the start of FW we have fought the larger corps that have joined the minmatar militia that come from 0.0 and we fight them on our terms just like the whole of Amarr fw has done during the good and bad times and we have stuck the course, unlike some corps that come in and out to suite there agenda, corporations like core impulse that blue on blue.
The point that seems to be deluded and side tracked is that we respect blue standings and we have been open about it and not hypocritical about our actions unlike the small and large corporations (alliances)out there and not be pushed around to do it.
We will pvp we will win and we will loose but that is what a pvp corp does we are patient and at the end of the day you are right we will fight for what we beleive in just like you.
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Merdaneth
Amarr Angel Wing.
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Posted - 2011.01.10 00:21:00 -
[85]
Crusader Dane,
Please leave this issue to the diplomats. I am sure nobody would deny you the right to defend yourself, but saying you will take down any neutral that you have the capability and opportunity to do so you are presenting yourself as a immoral pirate.
I would also suggest not to post AR internal decisions or intelligence on this summit until there is a clear need to do so. I understand you are angry, but direct that anger at the pilots of the Tribal Liberation Force.
____
The Illusion of Freedom | The Truth about Slavery |
Merdaneth
Amarr Angel Wing.
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Posted - 2011.01.10 00:32:00 -
[86]
Fact of the matter is, neither CVA nor Amarrian Retribution have been given any right by the Empire to decide who should erect a POS in the Bleak Lands or who should be shot or aided. They both have chosen their own path to support the Empire, and do so in the manner they believe is best.
It is my belief that the mere fact that someone is attacking one's allies should not sufficient to open fire on them *without diplomatic effort*, especially if it is not a situation of immediate urgency.
Has there been diplomatic effort from the CVA to resolve this issue before the ships were cynoed in? Being a member of the 24th Crusade alone should not be a reason for CVA to hold their fire or prevent them from assisting their allies, but it should be sufficient reason to try and solve this diplomatically before launching a surprise attack.
Even if the purpose was to defend the tower and no diplomatic solution was available at the time, merely chasing off the hostiles would have been a sufficient response. It is not written in the Scriptures that one should always try to destroy one's enemy.
____
The Illusion of Freedom | The Truth about Slavery |
Balder Con
Caldari Anti-Anti Piwats Incorporated
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Posted - 2011.01.10 00:40:00 -
[87]
Originally by: Merdaneth
It is my belief that the mere fact that someone is attacking one's allies should not sufficient to open fire on them *without diplomatic effort*, especially if it is not a situation of immediate urgency.
its called hot drop diplomatic's . |
madame distress
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Posted - 2011.01.10 01:13:00 -
[88]
"It is not written in the Scriptures that one should always try to destroy one's enemy."....... Which would be fine IF Talcorp was an enemy of the Amarrian Empire.
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Templar Dane
Amarrian Retribution
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Posted - 2011.01.10 01:13:00 -
[89]
Originally by: Merdaneth I am sure nobody would deny you the right to defend yourself, but saying you will take down any neutral that you have the capability and opportunity to do so you are presenting yourself as a immoral pirate.
My feelings on the matter of neutrals, is that if they are in the warzone it's better to dispose of them. If they don't want to be shot at by me, they can join the militia. Best to shoot first and ask questions later, rather than let the unknowns roam around gathering intel and setting up traps. Nobody in their right mind enters this particular warzone without a nefarious agenda.
It's common knowledge that this is a dangerous universe, particularly in our neck of the woods. It is my firm opinion that as soon as a pilot jumps into lowsec after getting the automatted notification of the danger of going into lowsec...they are fair game.
That "innocent" industrial could be hauling weapons for pirates or enemies of the militia. Positive security status pilot in local, harmless? He could be in a cyno-fitted recon ready to bring in a capital fleet or a titan jumpbridge or maybe he'll probe out your safespots.
ARETR and it's allies may stray from your black and white ideal, but at least we are transparent. At least you know we have your backs in a fight.
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Epitoth
Amarr Aerarium Militare Praetoria
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Posted - 2011.01.10 02:03:00 -
[90]
This is an extremely disappointing thread coming from people I have/had a great deal of respect for on both sides.
There are those who try and work towards the betterment of the Amarr Empire and there are those who try to drive a wedge between friends and allies and secretly wish to watch the world burn.
Do what you feel must be done, what you feel is right but please do not forget who you are.
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