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Lord Talamar
Gallente TalCorp Enterprises TalCorp United Federation
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Posted - 2011.01.11 07:12:00 -
[121]
Lost InCogneto,
As previously stated, Lord Meriak was informed in a local conversation of our reasons for being in that part of space and of our peaceful intentions as well as an indication that we had common reds with you. He is listed as a director and one of your diplomatic contacts in your corp description. All we ever received from him is hostile abuse, threats and claims of your corp "owning" the space. In addition, your pilots followed this up with numerous attempts to engage our pilots. Under the circumstances, I think we have shown remarkable restraint.
You say we besmeached your name. You besmeached ours when you claimed we initiated combat with Amarr militia pilots which we never did. As for involving allies, you involved your allies first when you brought in Dragoon Federation, a well known pirate alliance, in your attack on our POS. Is your complaint that we have more capable and less questionable allies?
Before you throw around further unfounded accusations, I suggest you get your facts straight.
I do agree with you on one thing, however. This whole confrontation has been unnecessary, wasteful and harmful. Both of our organizations would instead be better off spending our time fighting our respective real enemies, many of which we have in common.
Regards,
Lord Talamar
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Merdaneth
Amarr Angel Wing.
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Posted - 2011.01.11 08:38:00 -
[122]
Originally by: Silas Vitalia
I disagree, sister.
In low-sec, having multiple supercapitals dropped on one of your patrol fleets by an unassuming hauler or cruiser will quickly change one's views of the words "neutral" and "paranoia."
I would say that only one weak of mind and conviction would suffer from that. The strong of mind evaluate each situation anew and do not remain mentally traumatized by one incident. The strong take into consideration that 19 in 20 times that Cruiser or Hauler is not dropping Supercapitals. ____
The Illusion of Freedom | The Truth about Slavery |
IGoTraLaLa
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Posted - 2011.01.11 10:56:00 -
[123]
http://www.facebook.com/pages/Dunn-Idaho/167085489969733?v=wall
Today it is DUnn Idahoes birthday!
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Eliza Velvetpaw
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Posted - 2011.01.11 11:14:00 -
[124]
Edited by: Eliza Velvetpaw on 11/01/2011 11:14:15 wrong posting
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Balder Con
Caldari Anti-Anti Piwats Incorporated
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Posted - 2011.01.11 13:32:00 -
[125]
Edited by: Balder Con on 11/01/2011 13:32:20
Originally by: IGoTraLaLa http://www.facebook.com/pages/Dunn-Idaho/167085489969733?v=wall
Today it is DUnn Idahoes birthday!
also i have a Dunn idaho frozen corpse up for auction for all u dunn haters and lover out ther . |
BattleStar Crusader
Amarr Absinthe Brothers
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Posted - 2011.01.11 14:10:00 -
[126]
So ARETR are pirates. That is the simplest way of saying it.
Statements from your own Corp members are concrete evidence to support this.
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Silas Vitalia
Khanid Provincial Vanguard Black Inquisition
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Posted - 2011.01.11 18:52:00 -
[127]
Originally by: Merdaneth
I would say that only one weak of mind and conviction would suffer from that. The strong of mind evaluate each situation anew and do not remain mentally traumatized by one incident. The strong take into consideration that 19 in 20 times that Cruiser or Hauler is not dropping Supercapitals.
The occurrence of these sorts of tactics varies by region; we tend to see a few examples per week in the Kingdom.
I'm also assuming your comments are not some veiled insult in my direction, as I've yet to be a victim of these tactics (save for a single titan drop on my Archon last year which my flagship escaped), I'm certainly not 'traumatized', and have plenty of experience killing capital ships, as I well know you do.
Back to the topic though, the NBSI issue does seem relevant to this thread. Distinctions between 'pirate' and NBSI are simply matters of interpretation based on local circumstances.
If one is trying to maintain control of an area it is the height of foolishness to allow 'neutral' ships free passage to cause mischief and gather intelligence. With the vast amount of 'neutral' clone-jacks flying around it makes little sense to assume -any- capsuleer is harmless in low or null-sec.
These are complicated issues and I think we'd all do well to tone down the "pirate" rhetoric simply because a capsuleer groups is NBSI against other capsuleers.
Silas Vitalia CEO Khanid Provincial Vanguard Open for Recruitment!
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Calfis
Amarr F.R.E.E. Explorer The Initiative.
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Posted - 2011.01.11 20:17:00 -
[128]
Originally by: Silas Vitalia
Originally by: Merdaneth
I would say that only one weak of mind and conviction would suffer from that. The strong of mind evaluate each situation anew and do not remain mentally traumatized by one incident. The strong take into consideration that 19 in 20 times that Cruiser or Hauler is not dropping Supercapitals.
The occurrence of these sorts of tactics varies by region; we tend to see a few examples per week in the Kingdom.
I'm also assuming your comments are not some veiled insult in my direction, as I've yet to be a victim of these tactics (save for a single titan drop on my Archon last year which my flagship escaped), I'm certainly not 'traumatized', and have plenty of experience killing capital ships, as I well know you do.
Back to the topic though, the NBSI issue does seem relevant to this thread. Distinctions between 'pirate' and NBSI are simply matters of interpretation based on local circumstances.
If one is trying to maintain control of an area it is the height of foolishness to allow 'neutral' ships free passage to cause mischief and gather intelligence. With the vast amount of 'neutral' clone-jacks flying around it makes little sense to assume -any- capsuleer is harmless in low or null-sec.
These are complicated issues and I think we'd all do well to tone down the "pirate" rhetoric simply because a capsuleer groups is NBSI against other capsuleers.
Quoted for truth, the people who are decrying NBSI simply have not experienced the difficulty of weeding out spys and awoxers among blues. Add neutrals to the mix and you add confusion to an already frustrating security problem.
Its simple, if you do not belong in our area stay out and keep clear of us when you see us in other areas or try to take us down.
Innocent pilots have no business being outside the concord umbrella anyway, perhaps they are not so innocent if they are out here?
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Cmdr Zander
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Posted - 2011.01.11 20:57:00 -
[129]
Edited by: Cmdr Zander on 11/01/2011 20:57:33 It's probably a conspiracy made by the king aka carib devist
LOL
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Merdaneth
Amarr Angel Wing.
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Posted - 2011.01.11 21:31:00 -
[130]
Originally by: Calfis
Quoted for truth, the people who are decrying NBSI simply have not experienced the difficulty of weeding out spys and awoxers among blues. Add neutrals to the mix and you add confusion to an already frustrating security problem.
I a universe where death is only a monetary inconvenience at best, weeding out spies and traitors is impossible. In a world with mortal men these people are exterminated with extreme prejudice.
Originally by: Calfis
Its simple, if you do not belong in our area stay out and keep clear of us when you see us in other areas or try to take us down.
I seem to believe that most people are often in disagreement who belongs and who does not. Additionally, in my experience, most 'neutrals' don't receive any warning from people such as yourself. If you make it a habit of warning said neutrals and giving them ample time to leave the area, then I would be convinced that you were actually trying to protect space from spies. My experience the only communication tends to be gunfire.
Originally by: Calfis Innocent pilots have no business being outside the concord umbrella anyway, perhaps they are not so innocent if they are out here?
You are making a false comparison. There are hostile pilots, and non-hostile pilots. Non-hostile pilots can be out there for many reasons, simple travel from point A to point B among them. ____
The Illusion of Freedom | The Truth about Slavery |
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Calfis
Amarr F.R.E.E. Explorer The Initiative.
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Posted - 2011.01.11 22:22:00 -
[131]
Originally by: Merdaneth
I a universe where death is only a monetary inconvenience at best, weeding out spies and traitors is impossible. In a world with mortal men these people are exterminated with extreme prejudice.
They are weeded out, kicked from the blue entity then set red. They may come back in a new ship but they certainly won't be lingering amongst blues anymore.
Originally by: Merdaneth
I seem to believe that most people are often in disagreement who belongs and who does not. Additionally, in my experience, most 'neutrals' don't receive any warning from people such as yourself. If you make it a habit of warning said neutrals and giving them ample time to leave the area, then I would be convinced that you were actually trying to protect space from spies. My experience the only communication tends to be gunfire.
They do have ample time, once they see us filling local they should be warping off to a safespot and thinking about a way to get out alive while staining their pants brown for being caught lurking in our system. Their warning is having no standings with The Initiative in space that is claimed by The Initiative. Fools who linger at gates or anywhere they can be found deserve what they get. By pausing to ask questions we would be granting everyone blue status by default, it would be an administrative headache. Most pilots know full well whom's territory they are flying through and whether or not they belong.
Originally by: Merdaneth
You are making a false comparison. There are hostile pilots, and non-hostile pilots. Non-hostile pilots can be out there for many reasons, simple travel from point A to point B among them.
Then they should avoid our space and take the long way from point A to point B.
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Ospie
The Python Cartel. The Defenders of Pen Island
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Posted - 2011.01.12 01:00:00 -
[132]
Originally by: Balder Con Edited by: Balder Con on 11/01/2011 13:32:20
Originally by: IGoTraLaLa http://www.facebook.com/pages/Dunn-Idaho/167085489969733?v=wall
Today it is DUnn Idahoes birthday!
also i have a Dunn idaho frozen corpse up for auction for all u dunn haters and lover out ther
I want 6!
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CCP Spitfire
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Posted - 2011.01.12 07:52:00 -
[133]
OOC comments removed.
Spitfire Community Representative CCP Hf, EVE Online |
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Maximum Kiely
Caldari
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Posted - 2011.01.12 20:09:00 -
[134]
Originally by: Foolish Bob
Originally by: Alica Wildfire Edited by: Alica Wildfire on 10/01/2011 11:55:13 Fear fear leads to anger, anger leads to hate, hate leads to suffering. Suffering is the Empire.
Join the fun side of the conflict - we have Autocannons and cookies! Better music and the chicks are hot.
Do not be too proud of the confectionary delights you have constructed. The ability to tempt the tastebuds is insignificant next to the joy of the foolish blob
Hmmm... seems like somebody is unaware just how tempting to the taste buds hot chicks can be.
Based out of The Citadel - Contact Maximum Kiely |
Vaarun
Amarr Deus Imperiosus Acies
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Posted - 2011.01.13 18:52:00 -
[135]
Originally by: Templar Dane Originally by: Vaarun
If your pilots were on a gate and a militia fleet jumped through, D-fed goes GCC to attack them, who would you help? Or would you leave? And is leaving any better than not taking the side of our militia set upon by pirates?
We'd be telling them DFED was with us. If we just happened to stumble into a fight, we'd try to stop it.
That would be little consolation to a pilot pointed and in hull by D-FED ships. Trying to stop is a far cry from coming to the aid of your militia mates. You would be choosing pirates over your Militia. How comforting for them.
Originally by: Templar Dane Originally by: Vaarun
Your words distract from your actions and your actions have you allied with pirates, fighting alongside them, allowing them to down Amarr Militia ships, but not helping either party. That smacks of proxy protectionism: they attack what you cannot and YOU LET THEM.
And you're talking in circles. Bringing up the same issue again and again. Yes, we have a group of pirates as allies. Yes, we have and do destroy neutrals in our area. One of your member corps has/had blue standings with DFED. Going to use the same excuse of having no choice?
If I am talking in circles, it is simply because I am following the meandering paths your corp mates have made with their words. This situation is full of contradictions that you admit to, but when the tables are turned, you skew your own rules to your favor.
Originally by: Templar Dane Originally by: Vaarun
If it was the will of the Militia to remove DFED from Sahtogas, where would you stand? With the Milita? Any answer aside form a simple "yes" would show your true colors. I do not care about your record and history with the Amarr Militia. By your own words, this means nothing anyway. What I am concerned by is your obvious slide on a path to darkenss...
The will of the militia, or the will of an alliance with illusions of grandeur? Militia gangs come to Sahtogas to get DFED kills all the time
That is neither a ôyesö nor a ônoö. You understand the hole that would back you into and the uncomfortable truths it would entail, so you avoided answering my question. Sahtogas has long been a nest of pirates. It would do well for the Militia to make this a safe passage for all. Removing DFED would make it so. There are no illusions or grandeur here. That is a tactical fact.
Originally by: Templar Dane
You and yours left the militia to form an alliance for a purpose I am not privy to. I am in the militia, this is militia business. What right do you have questioning those you left behind for personal gains?
Though we had technically left the Militia, we have never left the Faction War. And even though I am not technically in the Militia, I am still very much a committed pilot of the Amarr Empireàso the Faction War, and itÆs systems, are still my business. You and yours seem to be overstepping your mandate from the Empire, crusader, and I take issue with that. I have never left to join the other side as so many do. We formed the alliance to benefit the Amarr Militia, even though it has only brought scorn and unwarranted attacks from the Militia. Still, we serve the Empress and the Empire and we can endure these misguided attacks while still keeping our purpose clear. Your contamination by dwelling with pirates has but you on a tenuous path, my brother. My personal reasons to leave the Milita for the COP were simple: I had grown weary of simply fighting in the war. I was taking steps to win the war, steps that were not being taken. I have fought on the frontline for many years, my record is well-known, but something had to be done. Something different. But these are just words. We shall see if my plans have borne fruit. But I did not have to consort with pirates or let blues die to enact my plans.
"To bring order to chaos, one must bring chaos to its knees."
-Vaarun |
Vaarun
Amarr Deus Imperiosus Acies
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Posted - 2011.01.13 18:55:00 -
[136]
Edited by: Vaarun on 13/01/2011 18:56:02
Originally by: Templar Dane Originally by: Vaarun
By my reckoning, CVA was simply trying to help an ally that was under attack. That is the honorable thing to do. When you watch Amarr pilots burn on a gate in Shatogas, that is less than honorable.
A news report later, and the damage control slander against ARETR begins. Shock and awe, then skeletons in closets...political propaganda rubbish in an attempt to distract from the issue that st
Perhaps when one is involved in activities which could throw them in a questionable light, one should keep a lower profile. Snubbing allies and attacking the friends of powerful alliances that should be blue to you are not conducive to this ôlower profileö.
Originally by: Templar Dane Originally by: Vaarun
I guess D-fed was justified every time, no? All defensive, I'm sure. You let an alliance that openly attacks the milita exist in your midst, and work *with* them even though they do so? It is surprising how much you can overlook when it suits you, yet bring uncommon scrutiny when things do not please you.
Of course not, some of us have tried to get them to join the militia though.
Intentions. Words. Perhaps they said they would become priests and haul food for to starving refugees. None of that matters. Only what you do matters, not your words. Lets look at what you say and what you actually do:
-You cite that a neutral corporation is attacking Amarr Milita targets, and use that as justification to attack them, yet you are very aware that the pirates of D-FED also attack Militia Targets, and you still have them set as blue.
-You expect Militia pilots to help defend you against pirates elsewhere, but you will let them die at the hands of D-Fed in Sahtogas, a system you claim to ôcontrolö.
-For some reason, you seem to think that no other corporation or alliance has the right to come to the aid of their blues, while you protect yours fiercely. In the same breath, you would usurp the aspirations of one of your blues(formerly, COP) for your own interests. I guess COP meant less than pirates to you.
-You admit to being closely allied with known pirates, yet somehow still remain in the Confido and run to PIE when your reputation is called into questionàall the while still maintaining closer ties to pirates than with a majority of the Militia.
All that being said, the ARETR, to date, have been a cornerstone of the Amarr Militia since day 1. Not simply as warriors, but also effective *plexers*àthat necessary task that so many pilots shy from, but a task that is critical to the ground-war. I have great respect for a fair number of individual ARETR pilots, but just as one bad apple can spoil the bunch, a few good apples do not turn the rest of the rotten ones edible. I question the leadership and those who operate around Sahtogas, as they seem to be somewhat separate from those plexing and fighting on the front lines. My issue is simply to remind ARTER to treat ALL their blues with equal respect, to not overstep their authority, and to not use such transparent excuses to justify their actions and their practices.
I have had my say, and will now put this behind me.
ARETR had tries to steal a moon form a former ally, now they do not have it at all.
They have lost capitals and a fair deal of respect from their peers.
I have no need to see them suffer any more than they already have, and am certain if they continue to overstep their bounds, even greater forces will find them at odds and take steps to protect their allies. Many corporations have friends, not just ARETR, and I know ARETR have less now than it had before this startedà
"To bring order to chaos, one must bring chaos to its knees."
-Vaarun |
masc24
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Posted - 2011.01.13 19:48:00 -
[137]
I wonder how is it that one steals a moon?
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Silas Vitalia
Khanid Provincial Vanguard Black Inquisition
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Posted - 2011.01.13 20:48:00 -
[138]
Originally by: masc24 I wonder how is it that one steals a moon?
A wise man once said "...That's no moon....." Silas Vitalia CEO Khanid Provincial Vanguard Open for Recruitment!
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Templar Dane
Amarrian Retribution
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Posted - 2011.01.13 23:01:00 -
[139]
Originally by: Vaarun
stuff and more stuff
We are not the only militia corp that has pirate friends. DFED is of little danger to the militia, unless they stray into their turf, which is understandable. If a militia gang went to nulsec and started poking around, they would be dealt with by the residents there...just as they would be by the pirates in Sahtogas.
If you or anyone else wants to move into Sahtogas, do it the way we did, with blood.
You keep acting like we are preying on amarr militia, which is daft and insulting.
Even though we do shoot neutrals, it seems the Amarr Empire still thinks very highly of us...
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Snake O'Donell
Gallente Core Impulse
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Posted - 2011.01.14 00:24:00 -
[140]
Originally by: Templar Dane :words:
You talk a big game for a little man. So when are you going to reinforce that R64 again? I really want to be there.
Oh wai...
You lost all your caps the last time you tried that. My bad bro.
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Templar Dane
Amarrian Retribution
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Posted - 2011.01.14 00:36:00 -
[141]
Originally by: Snake O'Donell
Originally by: Templar Dane :words:
You talk a big game for a little man. So when are you going to reinforce that R64 again? I really want to be there.
Oh wai...
You lost all your caps the last time you tried that. My bad bro.
And you talk real big for a guy who has killed more of his fellows than the enemy.
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The VoidStalker
Gallente Core Impulse
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Posted - 2011.01.14 00:46:00 -
[142]
Originally by: Templar Dane
Originally by: Snake O'Donell
Originally by: Templar Dane :words:
You talk a big game for a little man. So when are you going to reinforce that R64 again? I really want to be there.
Oh wai...
You lost all your caps the last time you tried that. My bad bro.
And you talk real big for a guy who has killed more of his fellows than the enemy.
So you did lose all you caps then.
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Snake O'Donell
Gallente Core Impulse
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Posted - 2011.01.14 00:46:00 -
[143]
Originally by: Templar Dane
And you talk real big for a guy who has killed more of his fellows than the enemy.
Hey bro, I've been wondering. Where did you get those carrier fits from? At first I thought maybe your 1337 spies in some NC renter alliance leaked them to you, but then I realized that even NC renters fit carriers better than that. IT maybe?
But I digress, obviously with the excellent fleet tactics and fittings strategies displayed by Amarrian Retribution this will be a long bloody war which will end only with the slaughter of countless CVA, NULL, and CORIM pilots by the elite forces of ARETR and D-FED. God Help Us.
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Balder Con
Caldari Anti-Anti Piwats Incorporated
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Posted - 2011.01.14 00:50:00 -
[144]
Edited by: Balder Con on 14/01/2011 00:50:06
Originally by: Snake O'Donell
Originally by: Templar Dane
And you talk real big for a guy who has killed more of his fellows than the enemy.
Hey bro, I've been wondering. Where did you get those carrier fits from? At first I thought maybe your 1337 spies in some NC renter alliance leaked them to you, but then I realized that even NC renters fit carriers better than that. IT maybe?
But I digress, obviously with the excellent fleet tactics and fittings strategies displayed by Amarrian Retribution this will be a long bloody war which will end only with the slaughter of countless CVA, NULL, and CORIM pilots by the elite forces of ARETR and D-FED. God Help Us.
good ting im not cva null or corim so il survife and il have to kill Amarrian Retribution on my onw then hope those sniping cariers wont get me . |
Templar Dane
Amarrian Retribution
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Posted - 2011.01.14 00:50:00 -
[145]
Originally by: Snake O'Donell God Help Us.
I doubt he will.
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The VoidStalker
Gallente Core Impulse
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Posted - 2011.01.14 01:03:00 -
[146]
Originally by: Templar Dane
Originally by: Snake O'Donell God Help Us.
I doubt he will.
Bigger replies please. Its hard to troll you when you dont write anything inteligent.
Thanks.
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Templar Dane
Amarrian Retribution
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Posted - 2011.01.14 01:58:00 -
[147]
Originally by: The VoidStalker
Originally by: Templar Dane
Originally by: Snake O'Donell God Help Us.
I doubt he will.
Bigger replies please. Its hard to troll you when you dont write anything inteligent.
Thanks.
I have to watch myself, since you've finally showed your face in here you've probably got your hands on forum supercarriers.
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Snake O'Donell
Gallente Core Impulse
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Posted - 2011.01.14 02:02:00 -
[148]
Originally by: Templar Dane
I have to watch myself, since you've finally showed your face in here you've probably got your hands on forum supercarriers.
Why don't you lose some more ****fit carriers about it.
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Vaarun
Amarr Deus Imperiosus Acies
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Posted - 2011.01.14 02:06:00 -
[149]
Edited by: Vaarun on 14/01/2011 02:06:17 I had said I would put this behind me, but I cannot let these stand.
Originally by: Templar Dane You keep acting like we are preying on amarr militia, which is daft and insulting.
I never said you were preying on the Amarr Militia. I was accusing you of keeping your "pet" pirates around to handle the Militia for you. It's called a proxy war, and you are doing it to keep ANY competition out of Sahtogas. You keep your hands clean while Amarr Milita pilots still die to your pets.
Originally by: Templar Dane Our eyes had been on that moon for a long time, before COP ever found it.
I have known about it, and all of the goo-moons in the FW region since the beginning. Unable to do much about it, yes, but I hardly think you were the first ones to ever find it.
Originally by: Templar Dane -Alliance asks us for support in capturing POSes in our territory that we had long-term plans for -We concede, but ask for half -Ignored
This is news to me. I had no idea. Had I known you would not have been ignored. I would have laughed in your face. 50%? For an ally?
I think most of this was my fault. I had thought we were closer allies than we were. It's clear you thought far less of us than I thought of you. I see it's all business now. So be it.
Can you share theses "long term plans" so we don't step on your toes again? Or do these plans change as people show interest in certain moons?
Well, back to business...fly safe. "To bring order to chaos, one must bring chaos to its knees."
-Vaarun |
Balder Con
Caldari Anti-Anti Piwats Incorporated
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Posted - 2011.01.14 02:12:00 -
[150]
Edited by: Balder Con on 14/01/2011 02:13:22 i hope they plan to lose more **** fit 300km sniping cariers and ther pirats are just to easy just shoot ther carier on the undock and they wil agres and die . |
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