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stoicfaux
Gallente
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Posted - 2011.01.11 22:51:00 -
[31]
Originally by: Professor Tarantula Darwin believed in god, and thought mass extinctions never happened.
That is all.
Yes, but what do the Incursion Dev team of * CCP PaycheckSignedByChthulu, * CCP SandpaperCondom, * CCP JalapenoLubricant, * CCP A2Mtoothpaste, * CCP MyMedsStoppedWorking, * CCP CCCP, and * CCP LegallyItsNotAbuseIfTheyStaySubbed believe in?
----- "Are you a sociopathic paranoid schizophrenic with accounting skills? We have the game for you! -- Eve, the game of Alts, Economics, Machiavelli, and PvP"
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Professor Tarantula
Hedion University
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Posted - 2011.01.11 22:58:00 -
[32]
Edited by: Professor Tarantula on 11/01/2011 23:01:39 CCP believe in money.
My Warmest Regards. Prof. Tarantula, Esq. |
Ranger 1
Amarr Dynaverse Corporation Sodalitas XX
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Posted - 2011.01.11 23:00:00 -
[33]
Originally by: Professor Tarantula Darwin believed in god, and thought mass extinctions never happened.
That is all.
And Einstein couldn't tie his own shoelaces. Didn't make his insights any less valid. ===== My mission? To kill the enemy and break their toys SIR!!!. |
Professor Tarantula
Hedion University
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Posted - 2011.01.11 23:13:00 -
[34]
Edited by: Professor Tarantula on 11/01/2011 23:16:39 ] Originally by: Ranger 1
Originally by: Professor Tarantula Darwin believed in god, and thought mass extinctions never happened.
That is all.
And Einstein couldn't tie his own shoelaces. Didn't make his insights any less valid.
As far as i know he could tie his own shoes. Not sure what sent you in that direction.
Einstein said himself that there were errors in his work which would be completed someday.
Apparently this allows a multitude of idiots to shout down rational thought.
My Warmest Regards. Prof. Tarantula, Esq. |
W1rlW1nd
WirlWind
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Posted - 2011.01.11 23:23:00 -
[35]
Originally by: Professor Tarantula Edited by: Professor Tarantula on 11/01/2011 23:16:39 ] Originally by: Ranger 1
Originally by: Professor Tarantula Darwin believed in god, and thought mass extinctions never happened.
That is all.
And Einstein couldn't tie his own shoelaces. Didn't make his insights any less valid.
As far as i know he could tie his own shoes. Not sure what sent you in that direction.
Einstein said himself that there were errors in his work which would be completed someday.
Apparently this allows a multitude of idiots to shout down rational thought.
Stephen Hawking can't tie his own shoelaces. Doesn't make his insights any less valid.
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Professor Tarantula
Hedion University
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Posted - 2011.01.11 23:28:00 -
[36]
Stephen Hawkings theories haven't been called into question here.
My Warmest Regards. Prof. Tarantula, Esq. |
Professor Tarantula
Hedion University
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Posted - 2011.01.12 00:05:00 -
[37]
Edited by: Professor Tarantula on 12/01/2011 00:09:22 Uncommon behavior for me, to be sure.
And, alcohol is a factor.
My Warmest Regards. Prof. Tarantula, Esq. |
Okie Wren
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Posted - 2011.01.12 00:07:00 -
[38]
I thought that Incursions required you to fit your ship for pvp rather than pve?
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Alyth
Gallente The Scope
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Posted - 2011.01.12 00:24:00 -
[39]
Originally by: Okie Wren I thought that Incursions required you to fit your ship for pvp rather than pve?
They do; they require an omnitank (pvp fit: check), learning to prioritise targets instead of lock > drones out > afk (pvp tactics: check), logis watching for target switch alpha (pvp situational awareness: check) and to fit for a 15 ship RR circlejerk (pvp PRIMARY THE DAMN -insert name of Sansha Falcon equivalent here- AND GET REPS ON ME: check). Hoepfully they won't also sort targets alphabetically and primary me first all the time (CCP THIS IS NOT A SUGGESTION PLEASE DO NOT MAKE THEM DO THIS!)
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Spineker
Caldari
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Posted - 2011.01.12 04:08:00 -
[40]
Originally by: unemployed pilot i mean think about, pimply face carebear gets a word of incursion in a system then proceeds to the said system with his faction/officer fitted BS thinking he is the best pver in the field and destined to be the eve's savior from sansha only to realize that those group of tempest are not there to shoot at sanshas.
Which will make it as successful as FW. How many times do you think that will happen before people say to hell with that?
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Aiwha
Caldari 101st Space Marine Force Nulli Secunda
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Posted - 2011.01.12 04:20:00 -
[41]
Its no worse than it is now. Just don't need a prober to find somebody to mess with.
And as for game mechanics, I'm sure that RR will be dealt with. Because leaving it as is will break the game. Not that I really care if highsec is broken, any incursions in 0.0 territory will be more of an exercise and a BP pinata.
Gullible
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Luminos
Durid is 4 Fite
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Posted - 2011.01.12 04:26:00 -
[42]
Originally by: Tippia
Originally by: Dante Marcellus So, to clarify (since I haven't tested any of the Incursion stuff on SiSi), not only do I want to fit a ship for PVP, but I want to join a fleet, because my Hurricane, all by itself, will die horribly? Even in .5+ systems? Seriously?
It's team-oriented content. Some of the simpler ones can probably be run solo (as can some of the "open-space" cleanup), but you'll need some rather beefy hardware to do so and you'll get paid less if you do it with more or less people involved than the site is intended for.
To give some examples of the sites and what they think you'll need for them:
Maybe I'm a bit jaded, but those seem like some pretty lackluster rewards for CCP's first attempt at establishing a raiding guild culture in EvE. ______
I feel as though I could do anything. For example, stab this cheese knife into the Self-Taught Man's eye. |
Archbeholder
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Posted - 2011.01.12 06:50:00 -
[43]
Originally by: Luminos Maybe I'm a bit jaded, but those seem like some pretty lackluster rewards for CCP's first attempt at establishing a raiding guild culture in EvE.
I propose purple colored modules
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Faolan Fortune
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Posted - 2011.01.12 07:17:00 -
[44]
I'm sure some will do it for the new Concord LP rewards.
Pretty sure new 6% Hardwires are among those rewards.
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Luminos
Durid is 4 Fite
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Posted - 2011.01.12 07:29:00 -
[45]
Edited by: Luminos on 12/01/2011 07:29:39
Originally by: Archbeholder I propose purple colored modules
Until Incarna, in which Meta 0 becomes the new purple.
PS-I have this sudden urge to fly a bright purple Domi with leopard skin seats, hydraulics and 24" spinners. ______
I feel as though I could do anything. For example, stab this cheese knife into the Self-Taught Man's eye. |
Kestrix
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Posted - 2011.01.12 07:32:00 -
[46]
To the Op, tell me when doing a L4 or L5 mission do you invite random people into your fleet to help? So why do you assume people are going to change this for Sansha incursions? This will still be a corp activity.
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Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
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Posted - 2011.01.12 07:43:00 -
[47]
Originally by: Archbeholder
Originally by: Luminos Maybe I'm a bit jaded, but those seem like some pretty lackluster rewards for CCP's first attempt at establishing a raiding guild culture in EvE.
I propose purple colored modules
We already have them. It happened in Incursion 1/3.
Eg. good old Estamel invulns.
Of course, to get them as a drop from the Incursion sites, you'll have to venture into the PvP side of things againà ùùù ôIf you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡à you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.ö ù Karath Piki |
Ranka Mei
Caldari
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Posted - 2011.01.12 08:18:00 -
[48]
Edited by: Ranka Mei on 12/01/2011 08:21:02
Originally by: unemployed pilot i mean think about, pimply face carebear gets a word of incursion in a system then proceeds to the said system with his faction/officer fitted BS thinking he is the best pver in the field and destined to be the eve's savior from sansha only to realize that those group of tempest are not there to shoot at sanshas.
And then those Tempest pilots, all clever thick and smug, are suddenly way into their hull as, guess what, Sanshas don't give a rat's ass (pardon the pun) about their oh-so clever ganking plan, and decide to kill them first. :) Hunter will become hunted. --
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Pohbis
Neo T.E.C.H.
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Posted - 2011.01.12 09:10:00 -
[49]
Mission hubs, a gankers dream?
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Malcanis
Caldari Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
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Posted - 2011.01.12 09:55:00 -
[50]
Originally by: stoicfaux Incursion checklist: 1. New PvE content. Check. 2. PvE content that encourages public participation and cooperation. Check. 3. Hyper-competitive "winning fleet takes all" reward. Check. 4. If too many people participate in a public event, the rewards are reduced. Check. 5. BPC reward can be ninja'd. Check. 6. Concord aggression mechanics can be abused to grief pick-up fleets. Check. 7. War decs can be abused to grief pick-up fleets. Check. 8. PvE fittings will be at a disadvantage in PvE content. Check. 9. NPC abilities are way out of whack compared to what PC capsuleers can do. Check. 10. PvE incursion content makes current PvE content (lower bounties, reduced resists, etc..) less fun. Check. 11. Players who don't have the time, inclination, skills, and/or ships/resources can either sit in station or view the scenery while jumping from gate to gate with their stuff to a new system. Check. 12. ???? 13. Incursion expansion is successful!
Seriously, is there a dev named MyMedsStoppedWorking on the payroll at CCP?
Yes indeed, PvE should always be safe and predictable and everyone who competes should be given a prize for turning up and no-one loses because it's happy sunshine day in funland where everyone is special!
Malcanis' Law: Whenever a mechanics change is proposed on behalf of "new players", that change is always to the overwhelming advantage of richer, older players. |
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Darod Zyree
Gallente Zyree Holding
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Posted - 2011.01.12 10:06:00 -
[51]
Will concord shoot those that help sansha? like with RR armor/shield, etc?
if so, lame
-Darod- |
Scattorshot
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Posted - 2011.01.12 10:11:00 -
[52]
well as some the incursions will be in empire and some in low sec and so on im sure the ganking will be here and there. also the sansha camp the gates so the gankers will have to be tanking the rats and any gang that come through oh and the gate guns lol and as said before the sansha rats are not the crappy lvl 4 mission rats they hit hard. |
Dar Manic
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Posted - 2011.01.12 14:01:00 -
[53]
There is a fundamental conflict in Eve with the concept of 'cooperation' between random players: Eve allows (even encourages?) the crappiest behaviors in humans and now they are asking strangers to work together to get rid of a common enemy. Actively develop sh*tty players then ask others to trust them? If it weren't the game designers who came up with this, I would give 10/10 for this scam!!
I believe this will be an opportunity for the lowest of scum to work their magic within the rules of the game. The wise will just move to another area.
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stoicfaux
Gallente
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Posted - 2011.01.12 14:40:00 -
[54]
Edited by: stoicfaux on 12/01/2011 14:43:46
Originally by: Malcanis
Yes indeed, PvE should always be safe and predictable and everyone who competes should be given a prize for turning up and no-one loses because it's happy sunshine day in funland where everyone is special!
Stop being condescending for a minute and ask yourself: What's the goal of the PvE based Incursion expansion? Who are the target audience? Are they trying to draw new players in? Are they trying to lure carebears over to the darkside? Is CCP trying to encourage grouping and/or corp organization in order to make subs more sticky? Is it to foster a sense of community between Eve players?
The Incursion feature list is contradictory. We have a "public" event where everyone in the system is highly encouraged to participate (due to penalties to bounties and resists,) yet the rewards are only for the winning fleet which discourages public participation. (You don't even get bounties for killing Incursion ships.)
Public participation is encouraged, yet the RR and war dec aggression mechanics discourage public participation by making pick up fleets a bad idea.
The NPCs put out so much DPS and use so much scram/web/drain/etc., that even small Sansha groups will overwhelm lowbie or inexperienced players.
CCP is adding PvE content yet discourages the PvE crowd from participating. Only one fleet can win, so the only reason for the PvE crowd to stick around is to kill off the incursion faster in order to get back to regular PvE. (Is it good if players are rushing to finish new content in order to get back to the old content?)
Right now, Incursions seems to be targeted at highly organized, highly experienced players with good skills and resources who already know how to spider tank in a fleet, and who are the biggest fish/fleet in whatever pond the Sansha show up in.
If that was the desired target audience, then I would say that CCP succeeded. If Incursions was supposed to reach anyone else, then CCP went out of their way to shoot themselves in the foot.
----- "Are you a sociopathic paranoid schizophrenic with accounting skills? We have the game for you! -- Eve, the game of Alts, Economics, Machiavelli, and PvP"
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Luminos
Durid is 4 Fite
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Posted - 2011.01.12 14:59:00 -
[55]
Originally by: stoicfaux What's the goal of the PvE based Incursion expansion? Who are the target audience? Are they trying to draw new players in? Are they trying to lure carebears over to the darkside? Is CCP trying to encourage grouping and/or corp organization in order to make subs more sticky? Is it to foster a sense of community between Eve players?
In order: Raiding Guilds*, Raiding Guilds*, No, No, Yes, Yes-ish. (*You can call them "Raiding Corps" if you like, but I've seen this type of content before and every other MMO on the planet beat you to naming it ) Originally by: stoicfaux The Incursion feature list is contradictory. We have a "public" event where everyone in the system is highly encouraged to participate (due to penalties to bounties and resists,) yet the rewards are only for the winning fleet which discourages public participation. (You don't even get bounties for killing Incursion ships.)
Public participation is encouraged, yet the RR and war dec aggression mechanics discourage public participation by making pick up fleets a bad idea.
Untrue. Public participation is strictly prohibited for this content. This content is aimed squarely at... Originally by: stoicfaux ...highly organized, highly experienced players with good skills and resources who already know how to spider tank in a fleet, and who are the biggest fish/fleet in whatever pond the Sansha show up in.
If that was the desired target audience, then I would say that CCP succeeded. If Incursions was supposed to reach anyone else, then CCP went out of their way to shoot themselves in the foot.
As I was saying earlier though, the rewards involved for this don't appear to be any better than chaining highsec L4s. So I'm not sure how exactly this stuff is supposed to draw three dozen of the type of people who enjoy raid content all into the same place, especially considering 'the place' is apparently lowsec. ______
I feel as though I could do anything. For example, stab this cheese knife into the Self-Taught Man's eye. |
De'Veldrin
Minmatar Green-Core The Obsidian Legion
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Posted - 2011.01.12 15:01:00 -
[56]
Um...while I applaud the OP's enthusiasm, are people actually going to turn up to these things in officer fit faction BS's? I know if I venture into one I plan to take ye olde spider tanking typhoon of T2 fittings.
Fully insured of course.
Enjoy ganking me out of...a few million in fittings and some faction ammo?
Oh NOES! --Vel
I'm more of a care-badger. |
bgummer
Gallente Malicious Destruction
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Posted - 2011.01.12 15:43:00 -
[57]
after testing many sites on sisi with a fleet of 10 ships (8 drakes 1 basilisk 1 eos) we where able to pull in over 1 million isk a min per character in a .9 system. not exactly easy to do rocking level 4's but not impossible. they also proved to be a lot more fun than 4's.
are you going to solo these sites...maybe the scout sites and a gate camp but that's it, that pimply face care bear is gonna lose his faction ship to a gate camp...then that gate camp is gonna pwn the pirate that come to loot his can. the first gate camp i came across on sisi had 7 t3 wrecks and all the npc's where still there lol.
in high sec we wont seem much pugging going on cause of a whole RR grief, hell we couldn't even get away with it on sisi as someone would accidentally shoot the logi or something like that. and if we couldn't do it with out some smacktard trying to get his rocks off, on tq there's no way it gonna work. in low sec we ill see more grouping im betting as you can just not rep the smacktard and the sanshas will take him/her out, and i believe would be gankers will find that there job will also be harder as carebears are going to have things like jammers and what not cause now all that good stuff is useful in pve now.
one last point, incursion's arnt huge it will be really easy to move over a few systems if you don't want to participate, they also don't seem to hang out for a really long time. think the longest we saw one hang out in empire was 3 days and i don't think there where many players if any testing in that constellation.
TLDR : incursions can be nice money for a full group, RR in empire is gonna kill pugging (good or bad?) and jam them sansha's till the cows come home.
P.S. sorry for the bad spelling and grammer.
Anything worth doing, is worth over doing. |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
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Posted - 2011.01.12 15:47:00 -
[58]
Originally by: Luminos As I was saying earlier though, the rewards involved for this don't appear to be any better than chaining highsec L4s. So I'm not sure how exactly this stuff is supposed to draw three dozen of the type of people who enjoy raid content all into the same place, especially considering 'the place' is apparently lowsec.
That will depend on what the CONCORD LP conversion rate will be like, and considering what's going into that LP store, it could turn out to be a fair bit. ùùù ôIf you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡à you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.ö ù Karath Piki |
Luminos
Durid is 4 Fite
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Posted - 2011.01.12 15:59:00 -
[59]
For LP conversion to be enough to go through the hell of organizing a 30 man raiding party, that better be somewhere around 10,000:1. ______
I feel as though I could do anything. For example, stab this cheese knife into the Self-Taught Man's eye. |
stoicfaux
Gallente
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Posted - 2011.01.12 16:00:00 -
[60]
Originally by: Luminos So I'm not sure how exactly this stuff is supposed to draw three dozen of the type of people who enjoy raid content all into the same place, especially considering 'the place' is apparently lowsec.
So low-sec incursions will have: a) the Raiders who will raid the incursion b) the Pirates who will raid the Raiders c) the Raiders who will treat the incursion as a honeypot in order to raid the Pirates. d) the guy in the covert ops who will ninja the BPC *if* anyone actually gets around to fighting the sansha.
Hig-sec incursions will have: a) the Raiders who raid the incursion b) the PUG fleets trying to raid the incursion c) the griefers trying to get PUG fleets concorded. d) the scavengers looting and salvaging all the player wrecks e) individual carebear lookie-loos seeing what the all the fuss is about f) the two dozen guys in covert ops ships trying to ninja the bpc.
0.0 Space Incursions: a) Local alliance drops titans and dreads on the incursion b) Someone's alt ninjas the BPC c) Feelings get hurt and the alliance kicks a few corps out.
Time to stock up on popcorn.
----- "Are you a sociopathic paranoid schizophrenic with accounting skills? We have the game for you! -- Eve, the game of Alts, Economics, Machiavelli, and PvP"
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