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Luminos
Durid is 4 Fite
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Posted - 2011.01.14 15:27:00 -
[121]
Originally by: Jaina Sunspot Quality Gaming accessible to only a few...
Great.
Don't be so glum, chum. Historically, this sort of 'baby's first raid' PvE content is seen by at least 20% of the playerbase within the first 18 months. Of course, that also assumes there's a fair degree of power creep as more cutting edge players grow in ability (read: get Meta 25 modules) and are able to carry new players through the content kicking and screaming. Originally by: stoicfaux Personally, I'm just a bit surprised that an expansion of this size and hype would be primarily targeted at "raiding groups." You would think that the common threat of Sansha invasions (which take entire planetary populations as slaves) would be geared to most of the player-base, including the casuals, at least in hi-sec.
You mean those casuals that are busy working on being able to finish a L3 without warping out 4 times to repair? Technically casuals can still play, but it looks like if they aren't willing to pimp themselves out to a raiding guild, they're stuck with the 3-5 pilot incursions, which have crap for rewards. Originally by: Olleybear This game mechanic is called forming a Corporation.
Truth. Anybody serious about this content will be doing it corp exclusive; anybody else will get their 4 man group GCC'd once, and then either go back to L4s or join the aforementioned corp. Originally by: Tippia If it plays out the way stoicfaux says, it will be excellent news.
Also truth. I'm particularly excited to see how this plays out in lowsec. The new Sansha AI might be a great first step to getting people the hell out of highsec. ______
I feel as though I could do anything. For example, stab this cheese knife into the Self-Taught Man's eye. |
HeIIfire11
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Posted - 2011.01.14 15:32:00 -
[122]
Originally by: Luminos The new Sansha AI might be a great first step to getting people the hell out of highsec.
How do you figure that will help in any way?
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Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
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Posted - 2011.01.14 16:06:00 -
[123]
Edited by: Tippia on 14/01/2011 16:06:23
Originally by: HeIIfire11
Originally by: Luminos The new Sansha AI might be a great first step to getting people the hell out of highsec.
How do you figure that will help in any way?
People get used to running with PvP fits and work in co-ordinated teams.
Or, wellà more PvP-like fits, at least. ùùù ôIf you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡à you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.ö ù Karath Piki |
LightMeUpJohnny
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Posted - 2011.01.14 17:18:00 -
[124]
I call dibs on popping the BPC can/wreck.
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Windjammer
Gallente
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Posted - 2011.01.15 02:11:00 -
[125]
Originally by: Tippia
Originally by: Windjammer Oh. Haha. I see what youÆve done there. Clever. *Golf clap*
What can I say?
I just don't see any of those points as negatives, but rather as changes and additions that this game has been in need of for a very long time. If it plays out the way stoicfaux says, it will be excellent news.
The only thing I disagree with is his characterising their capabilities as "way out of whack compared to PC capsuleers" ù they're only out of whack with what normal rats can do, and rather provide the kind of performance you'd expect from a capsuleer ship. This, too, is a good thing.
Actually, the improved power of the NPCÆs is probably the only aspect of Incursions I find positive. The rest of StoicÆs points tend to indicate a failure of Incursions as a release. Sort of like a wet sounding fizzle. No doubt itÆll have to be tried as the new thing, but after that?
-The high numbers necessary to defeat the tougher Incursions in low sec mean that itÆs going to be very difficult for the low number of players typically found in low sec to defeat said Incursion. -High sec has the numbers necessary to defeat the low sec Incursions, but the player/raiders of the Incursions will quickly make most high sec players decide that it isnÆt worth it to go to low sec just to provide entertainment for some rat boys.
Again, the above is predicated upon whatÆs been seen on the test server which may be substantially changed before release upon Tranquility.
-Windjammer
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Luminos
Durid is 4 Fite
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Posted - 2011.01.15 07:54:00 -
[126]
Originally by: HeIIfire11 How do you figure that will help in any way?
The basic idea is that, for mission runners at least, gankers no longer get an built in advantage to the fight.
1) As Tippia mentioned, getting more PvP style keeps runners from getting ganked purely due to lolfit.
2) But as well, mission rats should not be a pirate's personal gate guns. Sansha AI that will jump on new pilots keeps runners from having to fight on two fronts while the ganker doesn't.
The aim would be to remove any advantage a ganker gets out of invading somebody's mission. Ideally I think, you also add the element of commitment: if Sansha AI scram/points as much as I've been hearing, not only does the would be pirate need to be able to kill their 'customer', but they might have to be able to then take on the mission as well. Which in turn might be very difficult after fighting a competently fit runner.
In the end, I'm aware that the gankers still living in lowsec are hungry. I have no doubt that if the mechanics play out as I've put forward, it would simply become standard operating procedure to land on a carebear mission with a 15 pilot fleet; overwhelming the mission and the runner in seconds. Which brings us right back to where we are now, where nobody in their right mind missions in lowsec (save for invisiTengu and stealh bombing FW L4s. ). So it's a step in the right direction, but not a complete fix yet. ______
I feel as though I could do anything. For example, stab this cheese knife into the Self-Taught Man's eye. |
Peaceouthomies
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Posted - 2011.01.15 09:58:00 -
[127]
Let me help everyone in this ridiculous thread out real quick.
INCURSION by a massive enemy force usually results in complete chaos.
If you involve yourself directly in chaos please don't complain about what happens to you.
If you can't handle the heat, stay out of the frying pan!
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Siigari Kitawa
Gallente Senex Legio Get Off My Lawn
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Posted - 2011.01.15 10:15:00 -
[128]
What are the BPC rewards going to be, beyond a supercarrier BPC?
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Major MouseTrap
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Posted - 2011.01.15 20:16:00 -
[129]
go team sansha.....a.k.a Team Ramrod.... what's the prophecy in this for carebears............PAIN
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kggdhrtswwar
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Posted - 2011.01.15 23:11:00 -
[130]
I also noticed no high sec gate camps. An npc gate camp in null sec got 5 or 6 warp scramblers on me and popped my 2000+ dps omni tanked rattlesnake before I could get into warp from one gate to the next. Argo hypothesis npcs or something. In an incursion sector asteroid belt I had normal belt rats and the sansha. The regular rats died in 1 volley as usual. I ran some missions in an incursion sector and it seemed like a regular mission. I think the sansha npcs are nerfed not the system. Can anyone confirm this? I also notice to reduce dps you can warp in and cloak and lead sansha away to spread them out and reduce dps. They followed me out to over 5800 km. Need to uncloak 200 km from the nearest npc and be able to fly atleast 1100 m/s with a microwarp drive and also fly directly away from the sansha. It is an easy way to keep null sec gates clear. |
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Takseen
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Posted - 2011.01.16 00:14:00 -
[131]
Originally by: Major MouseTrap LMAO First rule of EVE trust no one .....i only trust game mechanic's .........i have 2 alts in corp's that have been there for a month in a half of so just so when sansha incursion becomes active i can get shoot another alliance member trust and eve just dont mix........ ask the player who been a victim of players they trusted.....
I thought Concord don't give a toss if you shoot someone in the same corp/alliance as yourself? Even if you could actually kill someone using this plan, it seems pretty small-time compared to some of the corp infiltration scams I've heard of.
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Major MouseTrap
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Posted - 2011.01.16 01:00:00 -
[132]
You my dear sir Takseen need to go back to eve schoolplease try to know what you are talking about the only person you can shoot in fleet and get away with it is in your corp not alliance please read all post on this subject example :Originally by: stoicfaux -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Incursion checklist: 1. New PvE content. Check. 2. PvE content that encourages public participation and cooperation. Check. 3. Hyper-competitive "winning fleet takes all" reward. Check. 4. If too many people participate in a public event, the rewards are reduced. Check. 5. BPC reward can be ninja'd. Check. 6. Concord aggression mechanics can be abused to grief pick-up fleets. Check. 7. War decs can be abused to grief pick-up fleets. Check. 8. PvE fittings will be at a disadvantage in PvE content. Check. 9. NPC abilities are way out of whack compared to what PC capsuleers can do. Check. 10. PvE incursion content makes current PvE content (lower bounties, reduced resists, etc..) less fun. Check. 11. Players who don't have the time, inclination, skills, and/or ships/resources can either sit in station or view the scenery while jumping from gate to gate with their stuff to a new system. Check. 12. ???? 13. Incursion expansion is successful!
Seriously, is there a dev named MyMedsStoppedWorking on the payroll at CC
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stoicfaux
Gallente
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Posted - 2011.01.16 06:49:00 -
[133]
Originally by: Takseen I thought Concord don't give a toss if you shoot someone in the same corp/alliance as yourself? Even if you could actually kill someone using this plan, it seems pretty small-time compared to some of the corp infiltration scams I've heard of.
http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Criminal_Flagging_System
Summary at bottom of page. ----- "Are you a sociopathic paranoid schizophrenic with accounting skills? We have the game for you! -- Eve, the game of Alts, Economics, Machiavelli, and PvP"
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Takseen
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Posted - 2011.01.16 11:06:00 -
[134]
Originally by: stoicfaux
Originally by: Takseen I thought Concord don't give a toss if you shoot someone in the same corp/alliance as yourself? Even if you could actually kill someone using this plan, it seems pretty small-time compared to some of the corp infiltration scams I've heard of.
http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Criminal_Flagging_System
Summary at bottom of page.
Aha so I was half right, as long as an Incursion fleet is same corp only then the griefing opportunities are greatly diminished. This expansion will give CCP a new chance to revise the GCC rules as they apply to remote repping though, as I'm sure they're gonna get a lot of complaints about it.
Some of the other complaints are rather bizarre or just plain wrong. The Mothership BPC can only be taken by the fleet that killed the boss if I remember right. It could still be ninja'ed by an in-house thief, but that's a risk with any corp asset. Encouraging PvP fits is an advantage for the PvE player, as they'll be better prepared for any erm, pvp action that takes place. Last time I checked pvp fittings didn't require any unusual or different skills compared to pve, hell you don't even need to respec! More powerful NPCs are also awesome. Blowing away squadrons of supposed battleships that can't even break your armor tank gets boring after a while. The impact of Incursions in highsec are minimal. 10% less resists and 10-20% less missions rewards for a few days, or a few jumps in your mission ship to a backup agent. The unrelenting horror and unfairness of it all.
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Cruzcampo
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Posted - 2011.01.16 13:43:00 -
[135]
Eve = Ganka's paradise
Also, I foresee a golden age for ship makers... this will be carnage.
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Eternum Praetorian
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Posted - 2011.01.16 14:20:00 -
[136]
* Wonders if I can get two friends into a triple Scimitar gang on an Incursion Gate...
* Imagines RR'ing the rats so they cannot be killed while baiting helpless noobs (and possibly Freighter/Orca pilots) into crossing said gate...
* Wishes he spent more time testing the Incursion mechanics on SISI to see if they will fire on new targets and keep firing on them until they explode so I can steal their loot.
Hmmmmm.....
Say it isn't so
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Tres Farmer
Gallente Federation Intelligence Service
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Posted - 2011.01.16 15:21:00 -
[137]
Originally by: Eternum Praetorian * Wonders if I can get two friends into a triple Scimitar gang on an Incursion Gate... * Imagines RR'ing the rats so they cannot be killed while baiting helpless noobs (and possibly Freighter/Orca pilots) into crossing said gate...
No sansha gate camps in high sec afaik. support Public Idea Tracker | 24hr PLEX |
Windjammer
Gallente
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Posted - 2011.01.17 09:27:00 -
[138]
Edited by: Windjammer on 17/01/2011 09:28:58
Originally by: Major MouseTrap go team sansha.....a.k.a Team Ramrod.... what's the prophecy in this for carebears............PAIN
How is Incursions going to be a problem for bears? Most of them are in high sec and Incursions will be easy to avoid if found to be a problem.
-Windjammer
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Pod Amarr
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Posted - 2011.01.17 09:59:00 -
[139]
Originally by: Ryhss Is CCP trying to make Incursion fail too?
Pretty sure it is going to be another FW. It will get some fans but overal just another half finished feature that will have some bug that will be fixed in 18 months
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Pod Amarr
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Posted - 2011.01.17 10:13:00 -
[140]
Originally by: Tippia Edited by: Tippia on 14/01/2011 16:06:23
Originally by: HeIIfire11
Originally by: Luminos The new Sansha AI might be a great first step to getting people the hell out of highsec.
How do you figure that will help in any way?
People get used to running with PvP fits and work in co-ordinated teams.
Or, wellà more PvP-like fits, at least.
Not really. Same point was repeated over and over when wormholes came along same arguments were made.
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Luminos
Durid is 4 Fite
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Posted - 2011.01.17 15:03:00 -
[141]
Originally by: Pod Amarr Not really. Same point was repeated over and over when wormholes came along same arguments were made.
Sansha incursions do have the advantage of actually taking place in a lowsec, instead of creating their own vast, empty frontier. Will the incursions actually be able to convince some PvE corps to go live out in lowsec? Well, probably not... With the logistics needed to move between incursions it's likely going to be a lot easier to base yourself in empire and only head out into low when you have a full raid fleet up.
Should make the gate camps interesting.
But it's just that: a first step. As you said it's kind of a first step taken twice, but here's hoping that next time instead of introducing even more 'jerk-face difficult' AI, they start giving high sec runners (I'd hope for miners, but I'm not sure you even can add content specifically for bots) a reason to live in lowsec. ______
I feel as though I could do anything. For example, stab this cheese knife into the Self-Taught Man's eye. |
HeIIfire11
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Posted - 2011.01.26 19:07:00 -
[142]
And I'll leave this here too because this pretty much wraps up the thread..
Originally by: HeIIfire11
Originally by: Tippia
Originally by: HeIIfire11 I will have no part in this whole thing until the game gets fixed.I just lost a kronos because I gave someone rr and he shot me.
Working as intended; nothing to be fixed.
Says you..now watch them fix it because they will either have to or the whole thing will be a flop.At least in high sec.No one is going to join a random fleet after getting popped because of some stupid guy shooting stuff hes shouldnt be.Nor will they go in there with anything more than cheap little ships which will be no fun I can tell you now.You'll be gone in less than a min.Wanna bet?
In any case it will be nice to see your foot in your mouth.
0/10 btw because I know you can do better.
http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1446656&page=3
Everything is proceeding as I have foreseen.
Originally by: CCP Soundwave We are looking into this issue right now.
Soundwave quoted from this thread..
http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1456133
And because I like seeing Mr."I'm always right"Tippia with his foot in mouth
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Major Snitch
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Posted - 2011.01.26 19:10:00 -
[143]
i agree it's good to see Tippia with his foot in his mouth.......
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Darth Gustav
Warp Devils United Pod Service
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Posted - 2011.01.26 19:37:00 -
[144]
Originally by: Keta Fraal Why not have a pop-up warning for choosing to cease RR when someone is going for a GCC (global criminal countdown)?
Causality. You can't stop getting flagged for a GCC when you've already been flagged for GCC.
By the time the window pops up on your screen, CONCORD has already been called. Even pausing a second to deactivate ongiong modules according to some pre-set preference seems to break the game with lag. Especially if you come up with nasty ways to propagate the lag caused by such a pop-up. Imagine a crew of noobship pilots remote tracking linking you in 1s increments. Each gets a brief pause before your guns go off because their module has to stop so they don't go GCC. You'd never get to shoot.
This is why it's not so easy.
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Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
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Posted - 2011.01.26 20:14:00 -
[145]
Originally by: HeIIfire11 And I'll leave this here too because this pretty much wraps up the thread..
àexcept for the fact that it doesn't prove me wrong in the slightest.
Notice how he didn't say that they're "fixing remote reps".
They'll probably fix the the actual issue: people getting unwanted GCCs. The reason they'll probably fix that one is because is nothing about remote reps that needs to be fixed ù that mechanic is working exactly as it should and it's working that way for very good reasons.
Quote: And because I like seeing Mr."I'm always right"Tippia with his foot in mouth
You'll have to wait until I'm wrong about something first. Come back when they present their view of what the issue is and what the solution to that issue is. ùùù ôIf you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡à you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.ö ù Karath Piki |
Jelek Coro
Erase Rewind
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Posted - 2011.01.26 20:34:00 -
[146]
They should roll this out to L4 missions. A lot of work, but sleeper AI would make things interesting.
So many clueless hisec pve types confirming all stereotypes :)
I would not be surprised if many people thinking they are "good" at pve also play single player games on easy mode (or use cheats) and think they are "uber".
The AI is not hard to beat - look at the success of people living in WH (excluding those crying about neuts)...
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HeIIfire11
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Posted - 2011.01.26 20:36:00 -
[147]
Originally by: Tippia
Originally by: HeIIfire11 And I'll leave this here too because this pretty much wraps up the thread..
àexcept for the fact that it doesn't prove me wrong in the slightest.
Notice how he didn't say that they're "fixing remote reps".
They'll probably fix the the actual issue: people getting unwanted GCCs. The reason they'll probably fix that one is because is nothing about remote reps that needs to be fixed ù that mechanic is working exactly as it should and it's working that way for very good reasons.
Quote: And because I like seeing Mr."I'm always right"Tippia with his foot in mouth
You'll have to wait until I'm wrong about something first. Come back when they present their view of what the issue is and what the solution to that issue is.
The whine in that thread was about rr giving gcc..same issue.
And about that foot..that sucker's in there knee deep lol.
And just the "I'm always right" attitute is wrong in itself.
Go troll someone else you lost al respect im my eyes and have shown that any discussion with you is pointless,because you are "gods gift" to this world and can't be wrong
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Barakkus
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Posted - 2011.01.26 20:40:00 -
[148]
Originally by: HeIIfire11
The whine in that thread was about rr giving gcc..same issue.
And about that foot..that sucker's in there knee deep lol.
And just the "I'm always right" attitute is wrong in itself.
Go troll someone else you lost al respect im my eyes and have shown that any discussion with you is pointless,because you are "gods gift" to this world and can't be wrong
Aww, be nice...afterall ccp hasn't stated how they're going to "fix" anything yet. - - [SERVICE] Corp Standings For POS anchoring
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Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
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Posted - 2011.01.26 20:43:00 -
[149]
Originally by: HeIIfire11 The whine in that thread was about rr giving gcc..same issue.
àexcept of course that the issue that needs to be fixed isn't remote reps ù it's the other part of the equation.
Quote: And just the "I'm always right" attitute is wrong in itself.
So stop thinking you're right, then.
Quote: Go troll someone else
Explaining to you what the actual root of the problem is isn't trolling ù it just that: a pointer towards what actually might be worth looking at in order not to needlessly and pointlessly break things that are in no need of any kind of "fix".
Quote: you lost al respect im my eyes
So what? I couldn't care one iota about your respect. It's entirely worthless. What I do care about is making it clear what the problem is people are actually experiencing so that this problem can be fixed. I have already explained to you quite clearly why "remote reps" isn't it. You have yet to provide the slightest shred of argument or proof to the contrary. ùùù ôIf you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡à you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.ö ù Karath Piki |
HeIIfire11
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Posted - 2011.01.26 20:46:00 -
[150]
Originally by: Tippia Her..Derp..I know it all..Herp..derp
gtfo and stfu.
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