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Inistis
V i r u s Pendulum of Doom
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Posted - 2011.01.13 19:39:00 -
[1]
This is not a post about how to fit the best POS defenses û Any POS fit can be defeated with the correct application of time and commitment. This is a post about manipulating legal game mechanics to your will, utilizing Jedi mindàà never mind.
Step one û Join an alliance. Step two û Make sure you have more than 24 hours worth of Stront in your tower at all times. How this comes into play.
1)Your alliance gets wardecced. 2)Aggressor alliance comes along and shoots your POS until it goes into re-enforced. (I know you put up all those fancy defenses but like I said before nothing is unbeatable) 3)The Stront timer now counts down 1 day 12 hours. (depending on the amount of Stront you have stored) 4)Now simply leave your alliance. (DonÆt worry you can rejoin) 5)24 hour cooldown period now ensues. (for those that donÆt know the 24 hour cool down simply means you are not part of the alliance and the aggressor alliance can shoot you for 24 hours) 6)It is important to note at this point that the aggressor alliance CANNOT declare war on you at this point as you are considered to be at war with them for 24 hours already. 7)24 hour cooldown passes and the aggressor alliance re-declares war on your corp. They have to wait a further 24 hours until they can touch you again. Of side note - if you have time û why not join another alliance before the aggressor alliance can wardec you again so as to start the cycle over (wink wink) 8)Wait out the 12 hours of stront timer and in complete safety temporally remove your POS or beef up the defenses.
Exceptions to this tactic. (The ôAlmostö part)
If you leave your alliance too close to 24 hours of stront being left say 1 day and 1 hour. Then it is possible for the aggressor alliance to sit at your re-enforced POS and maintain aggression for 1 hour from shooting modules. Admittedly it is possible for them to sit there for up to 23 hours and maintain aggression but nobody will. If there is a downtime in the middle then they are screwed.
Double alliance aggressors û If a second alliance declares war on you the second you leave alliance then you are also out of luck. ôWhy are you divulging this informationö I hear you cry. ô Every carebear and his pet unicorn will now use this tactic. ItÆs simple û This tactic in the eyes of CCP is perfectly legitimate and players are free to utilize this tactic as they see fit. I personally, think it is BS and feel that it is a small part of POS warfare that urgently needs some attention.
And when something needs attention the best way to get it looked at, is to bring it to every bodies attention.
And before the flaming commences and we get all the 0.0 heroes on here declaring ô 0.0 is where all the real men are ! ô ô Come and shoot POS in 0.0 and you donÆt have to worry.ö I want to point out that some high sec wars are legitimate, whether it is feuding alliances, merc contracts or even simply griefing for tears / isk.
Commence intelligent discussion.
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TimMc
Brutal Deliverance Extreme Prejudice.
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Posted - 2011.01.13 20:04:00 -
[2]
I expect/hope that a petition will cause CCP to punish the corp, or continue the war.
Otherwise this is a very bad exploit.
And seriously, why would anyone shoot a high sec pos? No capitals to help means it would take ages.
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Yuller
The Filthy Few Pendulum of Doom
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Posted - 2011.01.13 20:21:00 -
[3]
Edited by: Yuller on 13/01/2011 20:23:48 It was petitioned by 2 of us and we both recieved differant responces....Seems CCP doesn't even agree on if its a exploit or game mechanic
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Inistis
V i r u s Pendulum of Doom
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Posted - 2011.01.13 20:23:00 -
[4]
Part of the reasoning for this post is the fact that this has been petitioned on several occassions - CCPS official line is that this is perfectly legitimate.
High sec POS warfare is boring - But with 20 battleships and support you can actually kill a large POS in a timley manor. Not Dread fast of course but you work with what you can with-in the game mechanics.
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Khromius
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Posted - 2011.01.13 22:50:00 -
[5]
Yuller is my gay lover and I <3 him.
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Inistis
V i r u s Pendulum of Doom
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Posted - 2011.01.13 22:52:00 -
[6]
Stop Hijacking my serious post with your gay love triangle antics :)
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Cori Halcyon
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Posted - 2011.01.13 23:16:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Inistis Commence intelligent discussion.
Wrong forum
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Le Skunk
Low Sec Liberators Hell's Hide-Out
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Posted - 2011.01.14 09:51:00 -
[8]
Its ok, they fixed wardecs in 2007.
SKUNK (o)
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Sven Hammerstorm
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Posted - 2011.01.14 11:47:00 -
[9]
You can keep the agression timer on and still kill the POS, it is pretty annoying though and clearly this should be changed/fixed
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Louis deGuerre
Gallente Malevolence. Imperial 0rder
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Posted - 2011.01.14 12:42:00 -
[10]
This is a very old trick but I thought it was classified as an exploit...(no source) ----- Malevolence. is recruiting. Dive into the world of 0.0 !
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Bad Messenger
draketrain
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Posted - 2011.01.14 13:23:00 -
[11]
Working as intended, you are now talking about high security poses, there has to be reason for term 'high security space'.
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Inistis
V i r u s Pendulum of Doom
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Posted - 2011.01.14 17:17:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Sven Hammerstorm You can keep the agression timer on and still kill the POS, it is pretty annoying though and clearly this should be changed/fixed
Have personally done this before. You get a " Concord will bbqpwn your ass" message, but you can still shoot. This tactic works so long as downtime does not happen.
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Inistis
V i r u s Pendulum of Doom
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Posted - 2011.01.14 17:29:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Louis deGuerre This is a very old trick but I thought it was classified as an exploit...(no source)
100% legit.
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Inistis
V i r u s Pendulum of Doom
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Posted - 2011.01.14 17:38:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Bad Messenger Working as intended, you are now talking about high security poses, there has to be reason for term 'high security space'.
I'am pretty sure that nothing player owned in " High Security Space " was intended to be un-killable. Difficult to kill , I agree. Here we are talking about hours of work being defeated by the click of 2 buttons being pressed at the correct time.
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Shaemell Buttleson
Euphoria Released HYDRA RELOADED
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Posted - 2011.01.14 17:39:00 -
[15]
http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1445568
This is another crappy war mechanic one of the many.
I am waiting for more comments from CSM members on this but so far only 2 of them seem to think they are not too important to comment on this.
* Please resize your signature to the maximum file size of 24000 bytes. - CCP Ildoge
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Izuru Hishido
Amarr Lethal Dosage. Violent Society
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Posted - 2011.01.14 17:53:00 -
[16]
This happened to my alliance on a recent wardec. CCP responded that they are looking into this as a possible exploit. Better not try it.
Your welcome,
Iz. "The point of war is not to die for your country, its to make the other bastard die for his." |
Hirana Yoshida
Behavioral Affront
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Posted - 2011.01.14 17:54:00 -
[17]
So the GM's wont help you with griefing what is probably a carebear/industrial high-sec corp and your first thought is to head to the forum?
Wardec/aggression system as a whole is completely out of whack and needs a serious overhaul. Neutral repairers, neutral links, alliance hopping, perpetual aggro timers .. The POS thing is merely a symptom of a greater malady so suck it up until CCP gets around to it.
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Izuru Hishido
Amarr Lethal Dosage. Violent Society
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Posted - 2011.01.14 17:55:00 -
[18]
Edited by: Izuru Hishido on 14/01/2011 17:56:07 Disregard this post. Sorry for the clutter, damn internet hiccup made me double post. "The point of war is not to die for your country, its to make the other bastard die for his." |
ROXGenghis
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Posted - 2011.01.14 18:23:00 -
[19]
Leaving an alliance to save your POS is not an exploit. Leaving/joining/leaving/joining repeatedly is. So keep deccing the corp and eventually you'll have enough evidence for a petition.
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Inistis
V i r u s Pendulum of Doom
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Posted - 2011.01.14 18:30:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Hirana Yoshida So the GM's wont help you with griefing what is probably a carebear/industrial high-sec corp and your first thought is to head to the forum?
Wardec/aggression system as a whole is completely out of whack and needs a serious overhaul. Neutral repairers, neutral links, alliance hopping, perpetual aggro timers .. The POS thing is merely a symptom of a greater malady so suck it up until CCP gets around to it.
I love how this is the first thing people jump too - " Griefing carebears in high sec ". You do understand that high sec war (Or Griefing if you are the weaker side) is a necessary evil of EVE. Without high sec wardecs - Empire space would become a seething, pulsating mass of carebear orgy. I can picture the 1000 + member highsec industrial alliances now..... I would also hazard to say that lost ships in high sec account for a good portion of the highsec economy.
Your second statement I agree with completely.
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Inistis
V i r u s Pendulum of Doom
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Posted - 2011.01.14 18:32:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Izuru Hishido This happened to my alliance on a recent wardec. CCP responded that they are looking into this as a possible exploit. Better not try it.
Your welcome,
Iz.
I have had 2 different GM's tell me that this is an intended game play mechanic and that players are free to utilize this tactic as they see fit. Maybe there is mixed consensus at CCP ?
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Inistis
V i r u s Pendulum of Doom
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Posted - 2011.01.14 18:34:00 -
[22]
Originally by: ROXGenghis Leaving an alliance to save your POS is not an exploit. Leaving/joining/leaving/joining repeatedly is. So keep deccing the corp and eventually you'll have enough evidence for a petition.
One wonders how CCP would go about enforcing this - Removal of offending corps POS ? A warning message ? Account suspensions ? None seem likely.
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Inistis
V i r u s Pendulum of Doom
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Posted - 2011.01.14 18:48:00 -
[23]
An actual fix for this problem would be this:
Upon declaring war on an alliance the wardec is actually counted against all the individual corps with-in the alliance. If a corp decides to leave alliance the wardec will carry over to the leaving corp. This will encourage a kind of fight together or die alone approach to alliances, encouraging alliances to to actually work together as intended.
Of course the leaving corp is only at war for the duration of the initial wardec - in which case the aggressor has the opportunity to "re-up" the war dec as usual.
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Shaemell Buttleson
Euphoria Released HYDRA RELOADED
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Posted - 2011.01.14 19:00:00 -
[24]
The best fix for this would be not allowing a corp to leave an alliance if their POS enters into reinforced.
And as regards the comment about hi-sec griefing that's just laughable.
* Please resize your signature to the maximum file size of 24000 bytes. - CCP Ildoge
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Hirana Yoshida
Behavioral Affront
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Posted - 2011.01.14 19:45:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Shaemell Buttleson ...And as regards the comment about hi-sec griefing that's just laughable.
How so?
Is it a challenging to get 20+ people to waste the better part of a day shooting a POS? Do you get "phat loot" from labs being fed prints from a station in system? There is no economic incentive, you are better off ratting/mission whoring if ISK is the objective. Shooting carebears has never been and will never be a PvP exercise which just leaves 'Da Grief'.
Being in it for the tears has certainly been enough in the past but if that is the case then surely shedding ones own over shoddy mechanics is bad for the tear ratio .. just sayin'
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Inistis
V i r u s Pendulum of Doom
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Posted - 2011.01.14 20:10:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Hirana Yoshida
Originally by: Shaemell Buttleson ...And as regards the comment about hi-sec griefing that's just laughable.
How so?
Is it a challenging to get 20+ people to waste the better part of a day shooting a POS? Do you get "phat loot" from labs being fed prints from a station in system? There is no economic incentive, you are better off ratting/mission whoring if ISK is the objective. Shooting carebears has never been and will never be a PvP exercise which just leaves 'Da Grief'.
Being in it for the tears has certainly been enough in the past but if that is the case then surely shedding ones own over shoddy mechanics is bad for the tear ratio .. just sayin'
Better part of a day - no sir - better part of 2 hours - more reasonable for 20 BS. In answer to your question: Allot of times you do get blueprints from the labs and selling the labs can be worth 100s of millions. There is also the possibility that the owner corp will pay ransom to save their POS. So you can make good isk destroying POS's otherwise nobody would do it.
Besides when you have enough isk - tears become the next currency of choice !
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Lightzy
Cult of the Spinning Meat
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Posted - 2011.01.14 21:05:00 -
[27]
it's an exploit confimed by GM's
don't do it
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Inistis
V i r u s Pendulum of Doom
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Posted - 2011.01.14 21:40:00 -
[28]
Originally by: Lightzy it's an exploit confimed by GM's
don't do it
Not according to the 2 GM's I have spoken too very recently.
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Shaemell Buttleson
Euphoria Released HYDRA RELOADED
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Posted - 2011.01.14 21:49:00 -
[29]
Originally by: Hirana Yoshida
Originally by: Shaemell Buttleson ...And as regards the comment about hi-sec griefing that's just laughable.
How so?
Is it a challenging to get 20+ people to waste the better part of a day shooting a POS? Do you get "phat loot" from labs being fed prints from a station in system? There is no economic incentive, you are better off ratting/mission whoring if ISK is the objective. Shooting carebears has never been and will never be a PvP exercise which just leaves 'Da Grief'.
Being in it for the tears has certainly been enough in the past but if that is the case then surely shedding ones own over shoddy mechanics is bad for the tear ratio .. just sayin'
Pick the ones with stacks of faction mods and there is. 2.6 bil from a recent one. Only 300 from another but because of this "exploit" they did have enough time to scoop 8 advanced labs and several other nice items. Just over an hour for 17 pilots to reinforce and same again to take down after timer. Not the biggest ISK per hour you can get but neither is running level 4's or mining in Hi-sec.
Also when you put them into reinforced if it's a nice POS sometimes they are willing to pay you to leave it alone. We have done this several times over the last month and we did it through Cribba holding the ISK for us untill the DEC was over and the POS was repped.
You sometimes get to have some fights on the POs as well which can be a bonus.
But yeah this is griefing just like can flipping because we aren't interested in real PVP!
* Please resize your signature to the maximum file size of 24000 bytes. - CCP Ildoge
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ROXGenghis
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Posted - 2011.01.14 21:58:00 -
[30]
Originally by: Inistis
Originally by: ROXGenghis Leaving an alliance to save your POS is not an exploit. Leaving/joining/leaving/joining repeatedly is. So keep deccing the corp and eventually you'll have enough evidence for a petition.
One wonders how CCP would go about enforcing this - Removal of offending corps POS ? A warning message ? Account suspensions ? None seem likely.
From another forum:
Originally by: SHC An alliance I used to be in had a personal vendetta against one corp in particular. We wardecced them, then they joined an alliance, so the war dropped. We decced them again, but, a few weeks later, they left. We wardecced them a third time, but they joined an alliance that folded soon after. Over a period of a couple of months, we paid an excess 250m in wardecs due to them jumping alliances. As far as I'm aware, the issue was petitioned, their CEO received a warning and we received reimbursement for the excess fees.
So at least one GM agreed it wasn't kosher, and as a result ISK was refunded and the exploiter got a warning. One would think that a warned CEO wouldn't do it again for fear of more serious consequences.
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