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Misanth
RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE Black Legion.
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Posted - 2011.01.20 18:00:00 -
[31]
This marks the end of casually sniping second page. - I'd tell you why but then I'll have to kill you. And to kill you I'd have to log in. And to log in I'd have to stop browsing these forums. Both you and me knows that'll never happen. |
The Crushah
Gallente The Python Cartel. The Defenders of Pen Island
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Posted - 2011.01.20 18:34:00 -
[32]
Originally by: Klauz Lycan
Originally by: Infinity Ziona
Without real life as a basis for in-game mechanics we would be flying around on space camels, shooting each other with frostbolts and casting greater heal whenever our camels got low on spagetti.
oh my god! CAN WE HAVE tHAT PLZ ?! PLEEEEEEAASE!!!
i already named my camel larry.
Dude, space Camels sounds awesome! Im gonna pimp my out with a faction dromedary and Estamel's hooves.
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Klauz Lycan
Gallente Honor and Glory Main Corp
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Posted - 2011.01.20 18:53:00 -
[33]
Originally by: The Crushah
Originally by: Klauz Lycan
Originally by: Infinity Ziona
Without real life as a basis for in-game mechanics we would be flying around on space camels, shooting each other with frostbolts and casting greater heal whenever our camels got low on spagetti.
oh my god! CAN WE HAVE tHAT PLZ ?! PLEEEEEEAASE!!!
i already named my camel larry.
Dude, space Camels sounds awesome! Im gonna pimp my out with a faction dromedary and Estamel's hooves.
thats good thinking ahead sir. i think i'll paint larry red and upgrade the spagettis to caldari navy Ribbon-cut noodles!
when can we expect a dev blog ? _______________________
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Tusen Takk
BlackHole Surfers
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Posted - 2011.01.20 19:24:00 -
[34]
Originally by: John Galt Edited by: John Galt on 20/01/2011 07:41:41 Simple solution for all players, implement cargo containers in the game that can't be scanned, are fairly expensive and protect the cargo within them better.
Advantages to this system are: It's more realistic that a universe plagued by suicide gankers, that only attack when it's almost guaranteed that they will be able to replace their ship and make a profit, would attempt to hinder the main problem of the cost of their cargo being so easily determined.
That they are expensive will make it so that not everyone is wanting to spend the money on them or the time to find/buy them or maybe even train the skill to use bigger cans, leaving plenty of targets for pirates to still kill.
And with the extra protection on the cans protecting the loot better pirates that now actually have to take a risk when destroying a ship they aren't 100% sure will be profitable are more likely to keep what they kill and this creates more interesting situations where pirates can ransom back cargo instead of it simply being lost to all in a senseless destruction.
Also this does not eliminate suicide ganking as an option for revenge or other uses where people have a legitimate cause to kill someone and bypass concord. All this does is makes it so that ganking is not 100% profitable and gives players a fair chance to move cargo around that is more valuable than the ganker's ship.
Eve is loosing hundreds of players sick of loosing all their cargo because they can't afford a freighter for loads too big to carry in any ship smaller than an industrial and since CCP doesn't seem willing to turn concord into a real police force that tries to prevent crime they should at least untie players hands and give us the options to protect ourselves by protecting the privacy of our cargo holds. All who are tired of endless risk of suicide ganking please bump this thread. All pirates looking to save more cargo from your kills please bump this thread. All casual suicide gankers bump this thread then go die please : )
this would work, but it would ruin alot of fun
plus, what would freighters say? not being able to fit modules on it and its already 680mil isk for one, theyd be the ones left open to attack
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Jaari Val'Dara
Caldari Atomic Zeppelins BricK sQuAD.
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Posted - 2011.01.20 20:49:00 -
[35]
Originally by: Tnam
Originally by: John Galt @tnam making the cans more valuable than most any cargo you'd be carrying is pretty stupid as it would simply further guarantee the profitability of suicide ganking, where what we need is some risk to the gankers that they might not make a profit.
You are missing the point, suicide ganking is a good mechanic, and anything like you say would just cause people to be able to move expensive stuff around space at insanely low risk which is really not an eve thing. Lots of people posted in this way some ways to stop yourself getting ganked, imo all these "workaround" are a bit sploity except using a cloaky hauler, **** shouldn't really work that way.
It should be that the only way to truely defend your loot is bringing actual defence that can keep the hauler alive.
Suicide ganking is not a good mechanic, for one reason. It has zero risk. They only engage when they are sure to profit and that is simply wrong. What other money earning way there is in eve that offers 100% safe income. It would be great if suicide gankers didn't know if it will be profitable to kill that industrial.
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ElJo123
Sons Of 0din C0NVICTED
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Posted - 2011.01.20 20:50:00 -
[36]
Originally by: John Galt And I'm not asking for more government, I'd gladly have way less concord sitting around on their butts doing nothing if it cut my taxes. I am also not advocating less personal responsibility, just the opposite in fact, but right now it is impossible for most people to take responsibility and protect their cargo because of skills or wealth do to game mechanics and lack of solutions to ganking hence this proposal.
it's like the irony skips 11 and just gets rid of the scale entirely
(never stop poasting mate)
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Slimy Worm
Lonetrek Salvage and Scrap
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Posted - 2011.01.20 21:30:00 -
[37]
Originally by: Infinity Ziona Edited by: Infinity Ziona on 20/01/2011 08:16:58
Originally by: Alotta Baggage lol, comparing internet spaceships to real life
(you just lost any credibility your argument had )
Most games are based on aspects of real life. Many examples of this in EvE and every other MMO out there.
Without real life as a basis for in-game mechanics we would be flying around on space camels, shooting each other with frostbolts and casting greater heal whenever our camels got low on spagetti.
In other words if you purchased a world war II flight simulator you would expect elements of world war II from real life to be included in the game as well as the historic benefits and limitations of that real life era.
Your argument is foolish.
Not true (Unreal Tournament, Half-Life, etc) but Eve is based on real life to an extent, but real life without a government. If there was no government then you'd get robbed at intersections because there'd be no police. That's similar to what Eve is like. ---------------
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Beachura
Exiled. The Kadeshi
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Posted - 2011.01.20 21:42:00 -
[38]
Originally by: Yokai Mitsuhide OR you could be more careful when moving your valuables... there are ways to make it harder for someone to see if you have anything worth ganking you over... like mixing in a ton of useless worthless crap so by the time they look through it...you're already warping away. It is fine the way it is now.
No, things are not fine the way they are now, im living in catch and i can see from this far that stuff in high sec related to ganking isn't right
+1 to the cans idea, expensive but protected against scanners
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Taedrin
Gallente The Green Cross Sev3rance
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Posted - 2011.01.20 23:10:00 -
[39]
Originally by: Jaari Val'Dara
Originally by: Tnam
Originally by: John Galt @tnam making the cans more valuable than most any cargo you'd be carrying is pretty stupid as it would simply further guarantee the profitability of suicide ganking, where what we need is some risk to the gankers that they might not make a profit.
You are missing the point, suicide ganking is a good mechanic, and anything like you say would just cause people to be able to move expensive stuff around space at insanely low risk which is really not an eve thing. Lots of people posted in this way some ways to stop yourself getting ganked, imo all these "workaround" are a bit sploity except using a cloaky hauler, **** shouldn't really work that way.
It should be that the only way to truely defend your loot is bringing actual defence that can keep the hauler alive.
Suicide ganking is not a good mechanic, for one reason. It has zero risk. They only engage when they are sure to profit and that is simply wrong. What other money earning way there is in eve that offers 100% safe income. It would be great if suicide gankers didn't know if it will be profitable to kill that industrial.
Risks for suicide ganking:
-Kill Rights -The ship they are targeting might actually be fitted with a tank, and survive before CONCORD shows up -That ship which is obviously hiding something in their double shrink-wrapped container might be baiting you for free lulz. On the other hand, how many people have complained about being suicide ganked AFTER doing the double shrink-wrap thingie? -The stuff that is valuable inside that hauler might pop with the ship, wasting your ISK (remember, insurance changes made insurance fraud unprofitable). Granted, this risk can be amortized thanks to statistics. But haulers can take advantage of this amortization too. -A ninja looter might scoop up the good stuff before you do. ----------
Originally by: Dr Fighter "how do you know when youve had a repro accident"
Theres modules missing and morphite in your mineral pile.
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Rez Valintine
Caldari Caldari Provisions
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Posted - 2011.01.20 23:48:00 -
[40]
Originally by: fat chickychick WTB the loot from John Galt's hauler.
Wow! You're ugly..
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Jaari Val'Dara
Caldari Atomic Zeppelins BricK sQuAD.
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Posted - 2011.01.21 09:09:00 -
[41]
Originally by: Taedrin
Risks for suicide ganking:
Originally by: Taedrin
-Kill Rights
They retreat to 0.0 after the ganking, so it's irrelevant, as those kill rights are useless there, you may kill anyone anyway.
Originally by: Taedrin
-The ship they are targeting might actually be fitted with a tank, and survive before CONCORD shows up
Highly unlikely, even tanked industrial is highly vulnerable.
Originally by: Taedrin
-That ship which is obviously hiding something in their double shrink-wrapped container might be baiting you for free lulz. On the other hand, how many people have complained about being suicide ganked AFTER doing the double shrink-wrap thingie?
Also highly unlikely, I see no appeal to wasting time in such manner.
Originally by: Taedrin
-The stuff that is valuable inside that hauler might pop with the ship, wasting your ISK (remember, insurance changes made insurance fraud unprofitable). Granted, this risk can be amortized thanks to statistics. But haulers can take advantage of this amortization too.
Statistics are awesome. If they see that expected value of the drop is less than the loss of the ship, they wont attack. They might be at a loss once or twice, but in the long run, it's profitable.
Originally by: Taedrin
-A ninja looter might scoop up the good stuff before you do.
I'll give you that, one significant risk.
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captain foivos
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Posted - 2011.01.21 09:24:00 -
[42]
TL;DR OP is butthurt like the bajillions of others who have suggested this before.
Who is John Galt, anyways? -- Need a break from EVE? |
GankuVerymuch
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Posted - 2011.01.21 10:11:00 -
[43]
It's simple actually. T2 hauler and STOP using autopilot. If you get ganked it's your fault. Orca is the next step up. O and don't put all the eggs in 1 basket. (what if someone run over your basket with an arty 'pest?)
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Kuhn Arashi
Caldari
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Posted - 2011.01.21 11:23:00 -
[44]
Originally by: Infinity Ziona Orca's are a workaround only. They were never meant to be used as secure non-loot dropping haulers.
Yes they are.
Originally by: John Galt For all those reading I'm suggesting this as a general game change for the benefit of all players not looking for personal advice.
@ serpentis smile, again how many players can afford or fly an orca? Although maybe something like that that is more attainable a secure hauler of sorts in industrial not capital size would be nice.
If you can't afford an orca, your "valuables" probably aren't worth suicide ganking to begin with Also Orca is the least "capital" capital around. (Aside from maybe freighters) and half the price of one at that, and probably 10 times more secure. and has a multitude of uses. an Orca is a great investment on a support character and anyone regularly moving stuff should use one.
Originally by: John Galt
@natasha I'm not sure that even works, I tried something similar putting my stuff in shipping package and sent my alt to get it when I got ganked, was hoping it being right after downtime with my cargo wrapped in shipping and being .8+ space 3 jumps away would protect my ship and somehow the ganker still knew it would be profitable to suicide gank me so either he just got really lucky or scanners can see inside of packaging and maybe even cans inside of packaging. And again this is a ton of work and only available to those using an alt since you can't accept a contract from yourself.
Double wrapping DOES prevent scanning. However it is not the ganking immunity field you seem to have interpreted it as.
Originally by: John Galt
And those suggesting bigger ships or armed battleships obviously don't haul much nor did you read my original post, since there are many objects that won't fit in a battleship that need to be shipped, like other ships or pos parts to name a few. Also not everyone working up to get a freighter or a battleship can have a secure way to haul the cargo they are using to try and afford these safer methods of hauling. These are the people that get frustrated with the game when they are trying to build up a legitimate enterprise and some alt that has trained for a week to be a suicide ganker wipes out all the work they have been at for months, and can't be countered without great skill (freighters, bs, orca etc..) and without great wealth since you need at least 450m for an orca and carrying anything over 50m can get you suicide ganked.
If you are trying to make an "enterprise" out of moving stuff or venturing into an area of expertise that require the regular movement of large quantities. GET AN ORCA. Or a freighter, But really an orca. It has loads of space and hard to gank and stuff in the bays dont drop and cant be scanned.
Also if you can't be bothered to not auto pilot, have a cheap scout alt/friend, plan a route that isnt through gank hubs. (read lazy) then you can use the previously mentioned courier contracts for their original purpose.
Suicide ganking is stupid tax. Gankers are the Collectors and tears are the currency Welcome to EVE, Please Enjoy Your Stay.
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Mamba Lev
Masturbating Hand Social Club
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Posted - 2011.01.21 11:40:00 -
[45]
I always thought my cans where safe from prying eyes, i find a ship a scanner to be able to see inside a can to be *******s, especially if they can't see inside a courier too.
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Nagrom Egroeg
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Posted - 2011.01.21 14:04:00 -
[46]
maybe they should change it so that you cant scan courier contracts?
But seriously, suicide ganking... its really not an easy way to make shed loads. It requires a lot of patience. Ive sat at certain gates for hours and not seen anything worth killing, this is why i dont bother with it. Its more luck based than anything; 1. ACTUALLY find something 2. IF it drops 3. Grabbing it before someone else does - seriously - NOT a fast way to make isk. In all the time spent on gates doing nothing i most likely could of made more wtfpwning missions tbh.
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Maximum Kiely
Caldari
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Posted - 2011.01.21 14:54:00 -
[47]
Originally by: Golanik
Character named John Galt calling for more government intervention and less personal responsibility. Ironic lulz.
LOL, yep the irony is thick.
Now based out of Molden Heath! - Contact Maximum Kiely |
SomeHardLovin
The Boondock Saints
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Posted - 2011.01.21 17:17:00 -
[48]
Won't someone PLEASE think of the children!! ---
Bring forth the Assault Frigate apocalypse! |
Aessoroz
Nohbdy.
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Posted - 2011.01.21 19:31:00 -
[49]
Confirming OP needs to learn to haul instead of using a Badger for 4bil worth of goods.
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RedFiber
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Posted - 2011.01.22 01:25:00 -
[50]
or you can fly an orca and not worry about being ganked
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Kharylien
Gallente Masked Rider Project
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Posted - 2011.01.22 01:34:00 -
[51]
Originally by: John Galt whining
Wait, wait, wait.
You're wanting external intervention to prevent a problem you can't handle solving yourself...
... and your character name is John Galt?
I AM DYING OF IRONY OVER HERE.
HTFU.
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Le Skunk
Low Sec Liberators Hell's Hide-Out
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Posted - 2011.01.22 01:39:00 -
[52]
Item purchased at Jita 4-4 Put in orca hold Undocked from jita 4-4 Autopiloted to edge of low sec Transfered to jump freighter Cynod into low sec direct to station undock Cynod out to 0.0 station Handed to pilot
Zero risk hauling from center of empire to the edge of 0.0
And you want to make hauling safer... why?
SKUNK
(o)
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Shade Millith
Caldari Macabre Votum Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2011.01.22 07:18:00 -
[53]
Edited by: Shade Millith on 22/01/2011 07:24:28
Quote: The ship they are targeting might actually be fitted with a tank, and survive before CONCORD shows up
Highly unlikely, even tanked industrial is highly vulnerable.
Then put it in one of 4 things.
1. A heavily tanked BS. Tempest gets 102k EHP (120k overloaded) with 2k cargo
2. A blockade runner, can't shoot what you can't target. Covertops cloak and around 9-11k m3
3. A Deepspace transport. Occator can get 76k EHP, with 10k cargo, more tank for less cargo and vice versa. Mastodon can get 70k EHP with 17k m3, or 80k (85k overloaded) with 10k m3. Or 60k EHP(65 overloaded) with 22k m3. Again, more tank for less cargo.
4. Stick it in a bloody orca's corp hanger, with 250k EHP (278k overloaded) and nobody can see it.
There are PLENTY of options for moving things safely. People just refuse to use or train for them. ------------------------
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Twisted Xistance
The Greif Wave
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Posted - 2011.01.22 07:47:00 -
[54]
personally I dont think unscannable containers would work, simply because I know that if I scanned someones ship and saw containers I couldnt look into that I knew were incredibly expensive for the freighter pilot to but, the next words to pass my lips would be "FIRE!!!!!!!"
The only way to make them useful would be to have them dirt cheap so everyone could afford to get them which in turn would take a lot of fun out of the game.
I get how frustrating it would be being suicide ganked... sheild extenders maybe... dunno
Whatever you do DONT AUTOPILOT -First there was nothing then there was Xistance, then it all got kinda Twisted- |
Sanguine Belroth
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Posted - 2011.01.22 09:54:00 -
[55]
Originally by: Shade Millith Edited by: Shade Millith on 22/01/2011 07:31:51
Quote: The ship they are targeting might actually be fitted with a tank, and survive before CONCORD shows up
Highly unlikely, even tanked industrial is highly vulnerable.
Then put it in one of 4 things.
1. A heavily tanked BS. Tempest gets 102k EHP (120k overloaded) with 2k cargo. Bonus, very unlikely to be scanned.
2. A blockade runner, can't shoot what you can't scan, can't scan what you can't target, can't target when the thing warps cloaked and moves like a fast cruiser. Covertops cloak and around 9-11k m3
3. A Deepspace transport. Occator can get 76k EHP, with 10k cargo, more tank for less cargo and vice versa. Mastodon can get 70k EHP with 17k m3, or 80k (85k overloaded) with 10k m3. Or 60k EHP(65 overloaded) with 22k m3. Again, more tank for less cargo.
4. Stick it in a bloody orca, with 250k EHP (278k overloaded) 37.5k m3. That's not including the corp hanger, which can't be scanned.
5. Because 4 wasn't enough, stick it in a frieghter. Charon gets 180k EHP, with 981k m3
There are PLENTY of options for moving things safely. People just refuse to use or train for them.
^This, I've been ganked. It sucks, but it keeps life interesting. Do as above, or quit whining.
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Malcanis
Caldari Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
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Posted - 2011.01.22 10:36:00 -
[56]
Originally by: Jaari Val'Dara
Originally by: Tnam
Originally by: John Galt @tnam making the cans more valuable than most any cargo you'd be carrying is pretty stupid as it would simply further guarantee the profitability of suicide ganking, where what we need is some risk to the gankers that they might not make a profit.
You are missing the point, suicide ganking is a good mechanic, and anything like you say would just cause people to be able to move expensive stuff around space at insanely low risk which is really not an eve thing. Lots of people posted in this way some ways to stop yourself getting ganked, imo all these "workaround" are a bit sploity except using a cloaky hauler, **** shouldn't really work that way.
It should be that the only way to truely defend your loot is bringing actual defence that can keep the hauler alive.
Suicide ganking is not a good mechanic, for one reason. It has zero risk. They only engage when they are sure to profit and that is simply wrong. What other money earning way there is in eve that offers 100% safe income. It would be great if suicide gankers didn't know if it will be profitable to kill that industrial.
I guess no-one told you about the insurance change made last year that means you are wrong.
The ganker spends ISK every time he fires. If he fails to kill the target or the target drops nothing or someone else gets the drop before he does, then the ganker takes a loss.
Malcanis' Law: Whenever a mechanics change is proposed on behalf of "new players", that change is always to the overwhelming advantage of richer, older players. |
Ariel Dawn
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Posted - 2011.01.22 16:50:00 -
[57]
Don't AFK haul or use an Orca, not sure why people haven't figured it out yet.
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GeneralMartok
Caldari Worst Pirates Ever
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Posted - 2011.01.22 18:59:00 -
[58]
Edited by: GeneralMartok on 22/01/2011 19:01:03 the problem is definitely not undocking from jita 4-4 with 1b+ of stuff in an untanked hauler
you obviously need an iteron to transport 400m3 of faction mods
make some new stupid assinine game mechanic so you can be lazy
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Misanth
RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE Black Legion.
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Posted - 2011.01.22 21:50:00 -
[59]
Tbh we could use more gankings in higsec, playser are feeling way too secure, which could very well be why they feel they should be secure and can get away with stupidity. Was alot different when EVE was young. - I'd tell you why but then I'll have to kill you. And to kill you I'd have to log in. And to log in I'd have to stop browsing these forums. Both you and me knows that'll never happen. |
Boonaki
Caldari Focused Annihilation Detrimental Imperative
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Posted - 2011.01.23 08:38:00 -
[60]
I always move tech 2 bpo's in a shuttle for low/high sec, haven't lost one yet in 4 or 5 years. |
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