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Drake's are melting!!!

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Herman Klaus Caldari Touched By Klaus	Posted - 2011.01.25 20:33:00 - [1] I tried running a few incursion sites today and my fleet lost about 12 drakes and 4 scimi's! These Sansha are way OP. It looks like i've missed the potential profit on this . Should of realised yesterday. 3/4 trade Hubs seem to be totally out of Drakes! If you can buy <30m i'd suggest it as a good investment.
Deimona	Posted - 2011.01.25 20:46:00 - [2] Don't use drakes.
Aelisha Gallente Nisaba Syndicate NISYN Inc.	Posted - 2011.01.25 20:59:00 - [3] Deimona has a solid point. New banner soon!
Herman Klaus Caldari Touched By Klaus	Posted - 2011.01.25 21:01:00 - [4] Originally by: Deimona Don't use drakes. Tell me that 5 hours ago. I just sat in my pod at a Vanguard site (only 2nd tier difficulty) and watched a full amarr BS fleet with Guardian melt! This is going to have a kncok on effect right across the board. Have CCP introduced a stealth ISK sink? Looks that way.
Caldariftw123	Posted - 2011.01.25 21:04:00 - [5] Originally by: Herman Klaus Originally by: Deimona Don't use drakes. Tell me that 5 hours ago. I just sat in my pod at a Vanguard site (only 2nd tier difficulty) and watched a full amarr BS fleet with Guardian melt! This is going to have a kncok on effect right across the board. Have CCP introduced a stealth ISK sink? Looks that way. There's nothing stealthy about this. In one day it's going to wipe out billions and billions and billions of isk.
Commoner Caldari The Tuskers	Posted - 2011.01.25 21:10:00 - [6] Originally by: Caldariftw123 Originally by: Herman Klaus Originally by: Deimona Don't use drakes. Tell me that 5 hours ago. I just sat in my pod at a Vanguard site (only 2nd tier difficulty) and watched a full amarr BS fleet with Guardian melt! This is going to have a kncok on effect right across the board. Have CCP introduced a stealth ISK sink? Looks that way. There's nothing stealthy about this. In one day it's going to wipe out billions and billions and billions of isk. A ship loss is not an isk sink gentleman, it's a faucet. :)
Caldariftw123	Posted - 2011.01.25 21:12:00 - [7] Originally by: Commoner Originally by: Caldariftw123 Originally by: Herman Klaus Originally by: Deimona Don't use drakes. Tell me that 5 hours ago. I just sat in my pod at a Vanguard site (only 2nd tier difficulty) and watched a full amarr BS fleet with Guardian melt! This is going to have a kncok on effect right across the board. Have CCP introduced a stealth ISK sink? Looks that way. There's nothing stealthy about this. In one day it's going to wipe out billions and billions and billions of isk. A ship loss is not an isk sink gentleman, it's a faucet. :) .................... an isk faucet is isk coming into the game. Sink is isk going out of the game. I think you are confused here.
Ravenesa The Bastards The Bastards.	Posted - 2011.01.25 21:12:00 - [8] Originally by: Commoner Originally by: Caldariftw123 Originally by: Herman Klaus Originally by: Deimona Don't use drakes. Tell me that 5 hours ago. I just sat in my pod at a Vanguard site (only 2nd tier difficulty) and watched a full amarr BS fleet with Guardian melt! This is going to have a kncok on effect right across the board. Have CCP introduced a stealth ISK sink? Looks that way. There's nothing stealthy about this. In one day it's going to wipe out billions and billions and billions of isk. A ship loss is not an isk sink gentleman, it's a faucet. :) Well said
Herman Klaus Caldari Touched By Klaus	Posted - 2011.01.25 21:23:00 - [9] Edited by: Herman Klaus on 25/01/2011 21:23:11 Originally by: Caldariftw123 Stuff... I must say i like Caldariftw123. Twice this week he's understood my mindframe. Altogether my fleet and I have lost about 1b in ships. We die, change fleet, retry. These Sansha are insane! It says 5-10 for a Vanguard. We took in 10. 2 of us got out with ships. I mean jesus! Our Domi went down in 10 secs. It's like a C5 WH! This is a clever, no, very clever move by CCP. People are losing ISK all over the place. Ships, modules and i suppose minerals are going to start going up. PLEX are going to crash.
Deimona	Posted - 2011.01.25 21:23:00 - [10] Insured, Tech 2 fit, Tech 1 BS's aren't a huge loss of isk. Honestly Amarr BS's would've been my choice (or anything that's two lowest base resists weren't EM/Therma), plated and spider tanked. My opinion on logistics ships is if you can't bring at least 2 don't bother.

Unholy Son	Posted - 2011.01.25 21:30:00 - [11] Originally by: Deimona Insured, Tech 2 fit, Tech 1 BS's aren't a huge loss of isk. Honestly Amarr BS's would've been my choice (or anything that's two lowest base resists weren't EM/Therma), plated and spider tanked. My opinion on logistics ships is if you can't bring at least 2 don't bother. Shows how little you know! They deal all dmg types.
Julian Koll The Kollektive	Posted - 2011.01.25 21:30:00 - [12] Originally by: Caldariftw123 .................... an isk faucet is isk coming into the game. Sink is isk going out of the game. I think you are confused here. Ship goes poof, minerals go poof, insurance pays, isk faucet, mineral sink. get your facts straight
Caldariftw123	Posted - 2011.01.25 21:30:00 - [13] Edited by: Caldariftw123 on 25/01/2011 21:36:08 Originally by: Ravenesa Well said heh I see what is meant by it being an isk sink, in that it creates insurance money and evaporates minerals in turn .. Hmm not thought of it that way. Damn that ruins my fun about hoping the isk in EVE might actually drop somewhat, so only LP store bought items dying can be considered an actual sink, all else creates isk. Herman, you should see some of the fleets I watched .. guy warps in, 15seconds later he loses a 6billion isk faction fit BS. Has genuinely given me a huge change in thinking, thanks for this. I never quite connected those dots, but really .. there's hardly any isk sinks in EVE. This is nuts.
Herman Klaus Caldari Touched By Klaus	Posted - 2011.01.25 21:32:00 - [14] Originally by: Caldariftw123 Edited by: Caldariftw123 on 25/01/2011 21:30:57 Originally by: Ravenesa Well said heh I see what is meant by it being an isk sink, in that it creates insurance money and evaporates minerals in turn .. Hmm not thought of it that way. Herman, you should see some of the fleets I watched .. guy warps in, 15seconds later he loses a 6billion isk faction fit BS. Yeah one the Vanguard ones we tried had a lone T3 wreck in it when we went in. God knows what he was thinking. Although i did manage to grab his lootz
Berikath	Posted - 2011.01.25 21:47:00 - [15] Edited by: Berikath on 25/01/2011 21:48:59 Originally by: Herman Klaus Originally by: Deimona Don't use drakes. Tell me that 5 hours ago. I just sat in my pod at a Vanguard site (only 2nd tier difficulty) and watched a full amarr BS fleet with Guardian melt! This is going to have a kncok on effect right across the board. Have CCP introduced a stealth ISK sink? Looks that way. Tip- the first people to try new content in an MMO (especially PvE content) should expect to die. Usually many times. After they die, they figure out what happened/went wrong and come up with strategies to beat it. When they do, everybody else copies them and does the same content with few(er) wipes. Of course, this is assuming the content is tuned right and is actually realistically beatable. If it isn't, you'll be wiping a lot more without getting phat lewtz. Don't try new content the first day in stuff you can't afford to lose... probably a bunch of times. Also, draw straws before-hand. Whoever loses gets to go in alone, get absolutely WTFPWNT, and figure out what abilities the NPCs use so everybody else can tailor their fit to handle it. Then you only lose 1 ship the first time, instead of all of 'em ;). Originally by: Caldariftw123 Originally by: Commoner A ship loss is not an isk sink gentleman, it's a faucet. :) .................... an isk faucet is isk coming into the game. Sink is isk going out of the game. I think you are confused here. Insurance creates ISK, so blowing up ships is an ISK faucet (and a materials sink). The ISK sink is pretty much the market fees for the ships/materials/etc. * [ SIG] * Wish list for PI: One-click input routing Copy product, inputs & outputs in factories *Launchpad upgrades: twice the space, twice the cost, half the hassle! [ /sig ]
Berikath	Posted - 2011.01.25 21:56:00 - [16] Originally by: Herman Klaus I must say i like Caldariftw123. Twice this week he's understood my mindframe. Altogether my fleet and I have lost about 1b in ships. We die, change fleet, retry. These Sansha are insane! It says 5-10 for a Vanguard. We took in 10. 2 of us got out with ships. I mean jesus! Our Domi went down in 10 secs. It's like a C5 WH! This is a clever, no, very clever move by CCP. People are losing ISK all over the place. Ships, modules and i suppose minerals are going to start going up. PLEX are going to crash. As I understand it, the Sansha use sleepers AI... but better, meaning they're meant to target everybody in fleet and do significant damage. First guy who warps in will get ALL of 'em targetting him, so unless he's huge-ubermassive-overtanked, he'll just melt probably. I'm just guessing, but... if you're planning on doing a real, hardcore attempt at it, get a command ship to boost your fleet. Set it up with links and lots (and lots, and lots, and lots) of tank- probably mostly set up as a giant buffer. He goes in first, everybody else follows a few seconds later and reps him ASAP before his buffer runs out, and start spider-tanking when they switch targets. * [ SIG] * Wish list for PI: One-click input routing Copy product, inputs & outputs in factories *Launchpad upgrades: twice the space, twice the cost, half the hassle! [ /sig ]
Herman Klaus Caldari Touched By Klaus	Posted - 2011.01.25 22:04:00 - [17] Originally by: Berikath Stuff... They change to the most recent to enter the room. Almost instantly. Thats how our Scimi went down the first two times. He warped in last, BOOM, alpha'd.
Caldariftw123	Posted - 2011.01.25 22:12:00 - [18] Edited by: Caldariftw123 on 25/01/2011 22:12:43 Originally by: Herman Klaus Originally by: Berikath Stuff... They change to the most recent to enter the room. Almost instantly. Thats how our Scimi went down the first two times. He warped in last, BOOM, alpha'd. They do other cool things also .. I flew into a site in cov ops, land from the gate warp all nicely cloaked to find there's 4 formations of 3 sansha ships .. what do they do? They all break off burning real fast flying all around heading in my direction etc. making a real effort to find and decloak me! ****ing awesome. I like incursions a lot so far.
Berikath	Posted - 2011.01.25 22:22:00 - [19] Originally by: Herman Klaus Originally by: Berikath Stuff... They change to the most recent to enter the room. Almost instantly. Thats how our Scimi went down the first two times. He warped in last, BOOM, alpha'd. Heh- I guess then have the command ship warp in last? I was just armchair-general-ing (armchair-admiral-ing?). I haven't actually seen any of the sites, so all I can give is my best guess ;) * [ SIG] * Wish list for PI: One-click input routing Copy product, inputs & outputs in factories *Launchpad upgrades: twice the space, twice the cost, half the hassle! [ /sig ]
RiskyFrisky Under the Table Inc.	Posted - 2011.01.25 23:36:00 - [20] Drake got nerfed, remember? -

Jagga Spikes Minmatar Spikes Chop Shop	Posted - 2011.01.25 23:44:00 - [21] Originally by: Berikath Originally by: Herman Klaus Originally by: Berikath Stuff... They change to the most recent to enter the room. Almost instantly. Thats how our Scimi went down the first two times. He warped in last, BOOM, alpha'd. Heh- I guess then have the command ship warp in last? ... or don't warp it in at all. it should boost everyone in fleet within system. ________________________________ : Forum Bore 'Em : Foamy The Squirrel - [jedi handwave] "There is no spoon."
Akita T Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force	Posted - 2011.01.26 01:54:00 - [22] Edited by: Akita T on 26/01/2011 02:06:31 Originally by: Caldariftw123 so only LP store bought items dying can be considered an actual sink, all else creates isk Incorrect. BUYING (almost) anything from an LP shop is an ISK sink (as long as you have to pay any ISK for it, and for most items, you have to). Selling an item on the market (or contracts) is a TINY ISK sink because of broker fees and sales tax, otherwise it would be ISK-neutral (like in a direct player-to-player trade). Whether the non-ship item you bought (be it from the LP store, market, contracts or anywhere) gets destroyed or not is ISK-neutral. ANY ship destruction is an ISK faucet, regardless of insurance status. The act of insuring the ship however is an ISK sink. Rule of thumb: * if ISK gets generated by the system, that's an ISK faucet (NPC bounties, mission rewards, NPC buy orders, insurance payouts regardless of insurance level) * if ISK changes hands between players, that's ISK neutral (although, if you use the market or contracts, there's a very small ISK sink hidden in there) * if ISK gets eaten up by the system, that's an ISK sink (NPC office rentals, other fees and taxes paid to NPCs, LP shop ISK spendings, purchases from NPC sell orders, insurance contract premiums paid to NPCs for upgrade from the basic//free insurance level) _ Make ISK\|\|Build\|\|React\|\|1k papercuts _
Karl Reese Caldari	Posted - 2011.01.26 03:59:00 - [23] You guys are terrible. Vanguard sites were easy.
Soldarius Caldari Northstar Cabal R.A.G.E	Posted - 2011.01.26 04:09:00 - [24] All this talk of sinks and faucets... Dammit, Jim! I'm a doctor, not a plumber! Akita speaks the truth. The trick to eve is using the faucets more than the sinks. So make sure to go outside to the tap if you want water, rather than using the kitchen or bathroom, since all water from a kitchen or bathroom faucet goes right down the sink. Seriously though, insurance is not always a good idea as it expires after a couple months. Reinsuring a ship at platinum often results in you having spent more to maintain the insurance than what you would get if it gets popped. And if you let the insurance lapse, same problem. So, insurance is really only good for ships used for high-risk activities, such as PvP or incursions. Even then, insurance is still a net sink on a personal level. On a more macro level, the destruction of more ships means more demand for replacements, which means more demand for minerals to build them. Meta 1-4 modules can only be found through spawns. Since nothing we can do (other than rat more) can appreciably raise the supply, they should see a modest rise in price. Meta 0s and 5s (T2) can be produced in greater quantity to compensate, though I think the market has sufficient supply already to deal with the increase in demand. I know what I'm going to put my isk into. Originally by: CCP Shadow ...I cannot guarantee (my) sobriety or decency.
Randon Alt67	Posted - 2011.01.26 04:30:00 - [25] I'm up 400mil tonight afking between 2 systems. Thanks Incursion!
Herman Klaus Caldari Touched By Klaus	Posted - 2011.01.26 06:56:00 - [26] Drakes are up 15%
Cista2 Hydra Investment Fund	Posted - 2011.01.26 07:03:00 - [27] Originally by: Akita T purchases from NPC sell orders (mostly just skillbooks and blueprints nowadays) ze PLEXes madame? ----------------------- "Signatures" chatroom / LLSE Stock Market
Earane Anwarunya	Posted - 2011.01.26 09:25:00 - [28] If a buffer silly tank (40k+ HP shield and 150hp/s recharge) drake will work for highsec incursions at least for the warpin ,they will go even higher.
Akita T Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force	Posted - 2011.01.26 14:33:00 - [29] Edited by: Akita T on 26/01/2011 14:36:40 Originally by: Cista2 Originally by: Akita T purchases from NPC sell orders (mostly just skillbooks and blueprints nowadays) ze PLEXes madame? What about them ? NPCs don't sell nor buy PLEX for ISK. Only players do. From the game's non-participating-in-those-trades NPC's standpoint, PLEXes automagically appear and vanish according to out-of-game-universe rules (involving RL money and subscription intervals). PLEX creation, destruction and trade is ISK-neutral (with the exception of broker fees and sales taxes, of course, which is a small ISK sink, but that goes for ANY market trade or public contract). _ Make ISK\|\|Build\|\|React\|\|1k papercuts _
Herman Klaus Caldari Touched By Klaus	Posted - 2011.01.26 17:14:00 - [30] Originally by: Akita T automagically I lol'd



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