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Floydd Heywood
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Posted - 2011.01.31 14:04:00 -
[61]
It's given to the most effective fleet in the site. When you complete the site you see in your journal what LP you'll get once someone finishes the incursion.
So you have to be the best fleet in the site, but not the best fleet in the whole incursion. That would suck
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Hiro Shingami
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Posted - 2011.01.31 17:22:00 -
[62]
so... RR domi's anyone know if that would work? maybe 4-5 RR/Cap chain Domi's with high resist and good buffer? i know its all drones but domis can carry a ton anyway. Either that or fully passive buffer rattlesnakes but i chose to use the extremely cheap domi over the (still cheap for pirate BS) rattlesnake but you tell me. |
Cambarus
Malicious Destruction
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Posted - 2011.01.31 17:47:00 -
[63]
Originally by: Floydd Heywood It's given to the most effective fleet in the site. When you complete the site you see in your journal what LP you'll get once someone finishes the incursion.
So you have to be the best fleet in the site, but not the best fleet in the whole incursion. That would suck
This is not true. I had to test this the other day in a vanguard nation commander site. My fleet killed 20 rats, the other fleet killed 14, and we were also the ones who killed off the nation commander rat. Given that the only objective in that site is to make everything dead, and we were the better fleet at doing so, we should have got the payment. We did not. I'm told it might be that the BIGGEST fleet gets the payment, which would make sense given that there was 3 of us and like 10 of the other guys, but that would be a really, REALLY stupid way to decide payouts >_> |
mfw
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Posted - 2011.01.31 19:02:00 -
[64]
Originally by: Cambarus
Originally by: Floydd Heywood It's given to the most effective fleet in the site. When you complete the site you see in your journal what LP you'll get once someone finishes the incursion.
So you have to be the best fleet in the site, but not the best fleet in the whole incursion. That would suck
This is not true. I had to test this the other day in a vanguard nation commander site. My fleet killed 20 rats, the other fleet killed 14, and we were also the ones who killed off the nation commander rat. Given that the only objective in that site is to make everything dead, and we were the better fleet at doing so, we should have got the payment. We did not. I'm told it might be that the BIGGEST fleet gets the payment, which would make sense given that there was 3 of us and like 10 of the other guys, but that would be a really, REALLY stupid way to decide payouts >_>
Unless you know precisely what ship types were killed by whom and at what time, that is far from sufficient evidence to show that it doesn't go to the "best" fleet.
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Cambarus
Malicious Destruction
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Posted - 2011.01.31 22:16:00 -
[65]
Originally by: mfw
Originally by: Cambarus
Originally by: Floydd Heywood It's given to the most effective fleet in the site. When you complete the site you see in your journal what LP you'll get once someone finishes the incursion.
So you have to be the best fleet in the site, but not the best fleet in the whole incursion. That would suck
This is not true. I had to test this the other day in a vanguard nation commander site. My fleet killed 20 rats, the other fleet killed 14, and we were also the ones who killed off the nation commander rat. Given that the only objective in that site is to make everything dead, and we were the better fleet at doing so, we should have got the payment. We did not. I'm told it might be that the BIGGEST fleet gets the payment, which would make sense given that there was 3 of us and like 10 of the other guys, but that would be a really, REALLY stupid way to decide payouts >_>
Unless you know precisely what ship types were killed by whom and at what time, that is far from sufficient evidence to show that it doesn't go to the "best" fleet.
Picture of the wrecks
You'll notice that there are more white wrecks than yellow ones, and that the nation commander wreck is white. Both fleets warped in at the same time. |
Liadan Khanum
Gallente Dragon Armed Mercenary Escort Squadron
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Posted - 2011.01.31 22:41:00 -
[66]
Ship weighting could determine the biggest contributor, or it could be determined by total damage and not just whose shot killed the ship. In some ways I hope it is total damage, or ninja fleets will hold fire until sansha's are into hull then open up to steal some kills.
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Mara Rinn
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Posted - 2011.02.01 04:59:00 -
[67]
Originally by: Cambarus à I had to test this the other day in a vanguard nation commander à there was 3 of us and like 10 of the other guys
Try this again, except enter the vanguard site with the minimum fleet size to guarantee a 100% reward ratio.
-- [Aussie players: join ANZAC channel] |
Cambarus
Malicious Destruction
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Posted - 2011.02.01 05:42:00 -
[68]
Originally by: Mara Rinn
Originally by: Cambarus à I had to test this the other day in a vanguard nation commander à there was 3 of us and like 10 of the other guys
Try this again, except enter the vanguard site with the minimum fleet size to guarantee a 100% reward ratio.
We had 6 alts as well to insure full payout :) |
Floydd Heywood
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Posted - 2011.02.01 09:41:00 -
[69]
Were those 6 alts on grid and uncloaked? Otherwise they don't count.
Maybe it's really the fleet that had optimal numbers (on grid), and only after that, if there are several with optimal numbers, the one which did most damage is preferred.
Tbh so far we never had competition in our sites. We do Override Transfer Arrays which seem to be the hardest Vanguard site, maybe that's why.
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Hola Dilo
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Posted - 2011.02.01 12:30:00 -
[70]
Quote: so... RR domi's anyone know if that would work? maybe 4-5 RR/Cap chain Domi's with high resist and good buffer? i know its all drones but domis can carry a ton anyway. Either that or fully passive buffer rattlesnakes but i chose to use the extremely cheap domi over the (still cheap for pirate BS) rattlesnake but you tell me.
RR-Domis should work pretty well for Vanguard sites. We completed one (Nation mining colony) yesterday on Sisi with 4 people. 4 people is the bottom line, I think with less people you will get problems. We did not use Domis, but 3 Megas & 1 Abba. Our Vanguard site did only contain frigs and cruisers, so large weapons are not very effective. The NPCs orbit between 11 and 23km. Only one cruiser is about 60km away. We did most of the damage using drones, so Domis should be a lot better. Incursion Sanshas do not hunt drones like sleepers do. We lost 2 drones in about 2h of fighting.
Build up the cap transfer chain. Everyone should be cap stable with a single remote repper running. Cap booster should only be necessary, if you need to use the 2nd remote repper or if the cap chain is broken by the ecm frigs.
Kill the neut/ecm frigs first (Niarja ....), then kill the bombers (Tama ...), finally anything else.
I would suggest a fitting like this:
[Dominix, RR-Domi Incursion] 1600mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I Armor Explosive Hardener II Armor Explosive Hardener II Armor Kinetic Hardener II Armor Thermic Hardener II Armor EM Hardener II Damage Control II
Heavy Electrochemical Capacitor Booster I, Cap Booster 800 Cap Recharger II Cap Recharger II Cap Recharger II Sensor Booster II, Scan Resolution
Large Remote Armor Repair System II Large Remote Armor Repair System II Large Energy Transfer Array II Drone Link Augmentor I 425mm Railgun II, Antimatter Charge L 425mm Railgun II, Antimatter Charge L
Large Remote Repair Augmentor I Large Remote Repair Augmentor I Large Trimark Armor Pump I
Hobgoblin II x5 Hammerhead II x5 Medium Armor Maintenance Bot I x5 Warden II x4 Garde II x5 Warrior II x5
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Cambarus
Malicious Destruction
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Posted - 2011.02.01 17:45:00 -
[71]
Originally by: Floydd Heywood Were those 6 alts on grid and uncloaked? Otherwise they don't count.
Maybe it's really the fleet that had optimal numbers (on grid), and only after that, if there are several with optimal numbers, the one which did most damage is preferred.
Tbh so far we never had competition in our sites. We do Override Transfer Arrays which seem to be the hardest Vanguard site, maybe that's why.
They were at the gate, which for payment purposes still counts (otherwise we wouldn't leave em there :P ) |
UrsaeMajoris
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Posted - 2011.02.02 01:24:00 -
[72]
Originally by: Cambarus
Originally by: Floydd Heywood Were those 6 alts on grid and uncloaked? Otherwise they don't count.
Maybe it's really the fleet that had optimal numbers (on grid), and only after that, if there are several with optimal numbers, the one which did most damage is preferred.
Tbh so far we never had competition in our sites. We do Override Transfer Arrays which seem to be the hardest Vanguard site, maybe that's why.
They were at the gate, which for payment purposes still counts (otherwise we wouldn't leave em there :P )
Doesn't count actually. You must be fleeted and IN the mission site past the gate. You could hypothetically have a hundred people fleeted and waiting at the acceleration gate but they will NOT receive any rewards upon mission completion nor will they affect the payout for those inside the mission.
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Cambarus
Malicious Destruction
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Posted - 2011.02.02 03:30:00 -
[73]
Originally by: UrsaeMajoris
Originally by: Cambarus
Originally by: Floydd Heywood Were those 6 alts on grid and uncloaked? Otherwise they don't count.
Maybe it's really the fleet that had optimal numbers (on grid), and only after that, if there are several with optimal numbers, the one which did most damage is preferred.
Tbh so far we never had competition in our sites. We do Override Transfer Arrays which seem to be the hardest Vanguard site, maybe that's why.
They were at the gate, which for payment purposes still counts (otherwise we wouldn't leave em there :P )
Doesn't count actually. You must be fleeted and IN the mission site past the gate. You could hypothetically have a hundred people fleeted and waiting at the acceleration gate but they will NOT receive any rewards upon mission completion nor will they affect the payout for those inside the mission.
I've got about a billion isk in my wallet that begs to differ. In the future don't go correcting people when you've not actually tested it. |
Floydd Heywood
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Posted - 2011.02.02 08:26:00 -
[74]
Ugh. If you're right this needs to be fixed. Pilots that are not in danger of being shot by the sanshas shouldn't get rewards
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Cambarus
Malicious Destruction
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Posted - 2011.02.02 09:07:00 -
[75]
Originally by: Floydd Heywood Ugh. If you're right this needs to be fixed. Pilots that are not in danger of being shot by the sanshas shouldn't get rewards
Change it and we'd just make the alts use MSE merlins (frigs mitigate nearly all the damage dealt to them) and bring them into the site. It would also cripple leadership alts, which pretty much everyone uses for these.
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Sasha Tu
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Posted - 2011.02.02 09:44:00 -
[76]
Originally by: Floydd Heywood Ugh. If you're right this needs to be fixed. Pilots that are not in danger of being shot by the sanshas shouldn't get rewards
But I think that if you loose a non-noob / shuttle ship in combat with them, you should ....
I was in fleet last nite, got my cmd ship blown up, but was FC, stayed in my pod to call targets, we finished, and i was notified I wasn't getting anything...
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Floydd Heywood
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Posted - 2011.02.02 10:01:00 -
[77]
Why not bring alts that actually fight? But if you can make your alts survive in the site, I think it's ok. That at least requires some planning and cleverness, while anyone can just stand at a gate in a 100k t1 frig and no skills.
We use a leadership char too, in a command ship on grid. Easier to keep alive than anything else.
So now it's possible to earn lots of money while not even being at home: Just have your fleetmates warp you around to the gates. Only check back every hour or so to see if they had to go to the next solar system. The others won't mind because unlike other activities they don't have to split the loot, they get even more. That can't be right.
That said, unless that is changed I'm going to start exploiting it too, of course
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mistersparky
Estrale Frontiers
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Posted - 2011.02.02 13:06:00 -
[78]
Lots of good advice in the OP, I would highly advise a read before you attempt these sites.
IÆve be running a few vanguard sites in gangs similar to that listed in the OP û a handful of BS, 2 or 3 logis and then some T3/HACs/BCs for tackle and hacking duties.
There are a couple of things I am curious about. First of all, how much of a jump is there from the Vanguard to Assault sites? Can you just take the same type of fleet you would for Vanguard site, but just double up on everything? Does it require a different approach or any different tactics?
Second of all, electronic warfare û webs are obviously very handy in hitting smaller ships, and preventing quicker ships getting range on you. TPs also seem useful against the smaller stuff. Scrams donÆt seem to affect the MWDing rats, so are of no use. What about ECM and TDs? How useful would they be û especially in the higher end sites?
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Comy 1
Ore Mongers Black Hand.
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Posted - 2011.02.02 13:23:00 -
[79]
Originally by: mistersparky Lots of good advice in the OP, I would highly advise a read before you attempt these sites.
IÆve be running a few vanguard sites in gangs similar to that listed in the OP û a handful of BS, 2 or 3 logis and then some T3/HACs/BCs for tackle and hacking duties.
There are a couple of things I am curious about. First of all, how much of a jump is there from the Vanguard to Assault sites? Can you just take the same type of fleet you would for Vanguard site, but just double up on everything? Does it require a different approach or any different tactics?
Second of all, electronic warfare û webs are obviously very handy in hitting smaller ships, and preventing quicker ships getting range on you. TPs also seem useful against the smaller stuff. Scrams donÆt seem to affect the MWDing rats, so are of no use. What about ECM and TDs? How useful would they be û especially in the higher end sites?
THe big difference in assault sites is that you will have sniper rats orbiting at about 140km range. And these are cruisers and BS. To run these efficiently you will need to change your setup a bit, since it won't be efficient to fly all your ships all over the site to catch every ship. Regarding TD and ECM, lets just say that they are nice to have if you got the spare slots, but far from essential.
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Floydd Heywood
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Posted - 2011.02.02 14:33:00 -
[80]
What do you think is required in terms of logistics? If we do Vanguard sites with 10 pilots including two logis with ease, will we be able to do Assault sites with maybe 12 pilots and 3 logistics? Or is it more like 5 logis? (Note that so far battleships make up most of our fleet.)
Btw, from my limited experience I didn't notice any particular aggro preferences. If anything, our ECM-using command ship and the logis drew less aggro than the battleships.
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Cambarus
Malicious Destruction
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Posted - 2011.02.02 14:42:00 -
[81]
We did assault sites with I think 4 logis and a leadership alt. TBH though you want to aim for 20 people in the fleet, otherwise you'd get much better isk/hour running vanguards |
mistersparky
Estrale Frontiers
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Posted - 2011.02.02 14:58:00 -
[82]
Originally by: Comy 1
THe big difference in assault sites is that you will have sniper rats orbiting at about 140km range. And these are cruisers and BS. To run these efficiently you will need to change your setup a bit, since it won't be efficient to fly all your ships all over the site to catch every ship. Regarding TD and ECM, lets just say that they are nice to have if you got the spare slots, but far from essential.
Thanks a lot for the reply.
Is there still enough close range stuff (>20km) to bring CR BS, leaving the T3/HACs to chase around after snipers, or will the BS class ships (and any other small hulls) need to fit to snipe themselves?
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Comy 1
Ore Mongers Black Hand.
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Posted - 2011.02.02 17:28:00 -
[83]
Originally by: mistersparky
Originally by: Comy 1
THe big difference in assault sites is that you will have sniper rats orbiting at about 140km range. And these are cruisers and BS. To run these efficiently you will need to change your setup a bit, since it won't be efficient to fly all your ships all over the site to catch every ship. Regarding TD and ECM, lets just say that they are nice to have if you got the spare slots, but far from essential.
Thanks a lot for the reply.
Is there still enough close range stuff (>20km) to bring CR BS, leaving the T3/HACs to chase around after snipers, or will the BS class ships (and any other small hulls) need to fit to snipe themselves?
We refit our abaddons to tachyons for the assault sites
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Xrst
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Posted - 2011.02.04 16:50:00 -
[84]
I haven't tried an Incursion yet. But would like to know, do frigates have any role in an Incursion fleet, besides a half second meat shield?
In other words, if someone showed up to an Incursion, could they expect to be invited into a fleet? How should the ship be fitted and what would be their role? What would the chances of surviving be, if any?
There's been mention that NPC frigs cause a lot of trouble for fleets. Would a player in a frig or AF targeting NPC frigs, dealing damage and/or webbing, be a viable fleet member? If so, would they last long? BTW, good post.
TL;DR Do frigs have a role in a fleet and have a chance to survive? If so, what ship fit?
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Rens Cheque
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Posted - 2011.02.04 17:03:00 -
[85]
Originally by: Xrst I haven't tried an Incursion yet. But would like to know, do frigates have any role in an Incursion fleet, besides a half second meat shield?
In other words, if someone showed up to an Incursion, could they expect to be invited into a fleet? How should the ship be fitted and what would be their role? What would the chances of surviving be, if any?
There's been mention that NPC frigs cause a lot of trouble for fleets. Would a player in a frig or AF targeting NPC frigs, dealing damage and/or webbing, be a viable fleet member? If so, would they last long? BTW, good post.
TL;DR Do frigs have a role in a fleet and have a chance to survive? If so, what ship fit?
There are sites that require hacking cans and the cans can be very far apart, so a fast frig with a codebreaker is great for those. In regular combat frigs have not been as popular from what I've seen. Webbing sansha frigs is extremely useful, but it can typically be done by a web bonused Loki or even just a battleship with a free mid which can web and also fit a remote rep in the highs for example.
Since the number of people in a fleet is limited, you really need to maximize the utility of each member, and as a result, the only real demand I've seen for frigs is as codebreakers.
Maybe someone else has had a different experience?
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Dusica
Amarr
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Posted - 2011.02.04 17:49:00 -
[86]
Good post.
Tho pulse lasers have far worse tracking then any short range weapon systems ( AC and blasters ). It is common misconception. They work good on range since more range = easier to track stuff.
So what is really good about them is that they have superior optimal range. And Abaddon in particular is great fleet ship since it has great resistances and good damage due to nice bonuses that go well with logistic support :) --------------- There can be ... only one ! |
n00n3r
Caldari Malicious Destruction
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Posted - 2011.02.05 07:25:00 -
[87]
I usually fly the token hacking rifter in the override sites that we do, but lately have been getting tired of not being able to contribute much to the fight besides the hack.
So I swapped out that fast rifter for a MWD Cerberus. By doing this I am able to keep dps on the field and still hack the cans. The only catch is that since the Cerberus is putting dps on the field it tends to catch aggro a little more. So I had to make sure and keep a Logi within 70km of it.
So far it's working out pretty well. _____________________________________________
Interested in Incursions? Check out our recruitment thread here: Link |
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