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Comy 1
Ore Mongers Black Hand.
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Posted - 2011.01.26 11:36:00 -
[1]
BEFORE YOU READ THIS WALL OF TEXT, I WANT TO EMPHASISE THAT THE INCURSION SANSHAS DEAL AND TANK OMNI DAMAGE. IF YOU FIT FOR TANKING EM/THERM ONLY YOU ARE GOING TO IE HORRIBLY.
All day yesterday, the hard working effort of a few were ruined by the mass. People with no clue on how to run an efficient fleet kept dying horribly to the sansha.
I will tell you all a big secret on how to successfully complete these sites, and get the full payout while doing so. It's called SYNERGY, FLEET COMPOSITION AND BASIC FLEET KNOWLEDGE.
Step 1:
Make a fleet with good synergy, CHOOSE EITHER SHIELD OR ARMOR, DON'T MIX. You won't be able to run a gang with mixed logistics efficiently.
Step 2:
Don't use terrible ships and fittings. Alot of you might never have been in a fleet environment with logistics before, but the big secret to survive is to remove all **** mods examplified, but not limited to:
Local repair Sensor booster/Signal amp CPU/Grid upgrades STABS Cargo expanders
and similar terrible modules.
YOU WANT RESISTS, A BIT OF BUFFER AND DAMAGE/TRACKING MODS.
Step 3:
Get a proper fleet composition. The exact type of ships is not important, but rather the pressence of their role.
To use the fleet we used for Vanguard sites as an example that you might want to follow, think in the lines of:
3 Guardians 4 Abaddons 1 Dual web Loki 1 Random BC (in our case hurricane) 1 Random HAC (in our case zealot)
Feel free to swap out the exact ships to ones that fits your skills, but keep the main idea with you. 3 Guardians is what we felt comfortable with to keep everyone alive, regardles of the risk of one of our logis being jammed.
The abaddon is an awesome ship due to pulse lasers high tracking, awesome laser crystals and most importantly, HIGH RESISTS.
The Loki was probably the most important ship of them all in our fleet. There will be alot of frigs and cruisers in the sites, and without the webs the large guns from the battleships wont be able to track them. If you don't have access to a Loki pilot, going for a Huginn/Rapier or even equip a pair of HACs/BCs with propulsion mods and webs will do the trick.
Step 4:
USE YOUR BROADCAST KEYS, THEY ARE IN THE GAME FOR A REASON!
If you are one of the guys that scream on voice comms, or spam fleet chat with something similar to: "OMFG HALP IM DYIN REP FFS REP ME PLZ!1+!º+!" you are gonna die horribly. If you didn't know it already, you are not the center of the universe and people will have no clue about who to rep. 1 click on your broadcast button will solve this problem, and the logistics can easilly lock you to assisst with reps.
As a final note.
Feel free to experiment and optimize your fleet with whatever pimp setups you like. I have no doubt in mind a fleet of t3 ships and Nightmares will steamroll all the sites, I just didn't feel like testing it on day 1. Don't be bad and fit your ship like a hippie thinking stabs and local rep will save you. Replacing usefull resist mods in the low will end up with you losing a ship.
TL;DR
STOP BEING TERRIBLE
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Asaface
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Posted - 2011.01.26 11:47:00 -
[2]
I can confirm everything Comy says is correct. So many noobs ruining the efforts of use people who know what to do.
We started fleeting and completing incursion sites at 97% penatlies, when we disbanded they were down to 42%
We log back on after DT and find its back to 100%
Its not that much of a problem becuase it means we have more sites to farm today
However at this rate no incursions will ever be completed by anyone and sansha will siege the systems they affect for a week each time
PS - Good post Comy
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Von Tease
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Posted - 2011.01.26 11:50:00 -
[3]
Edited by: Von Tease on 26/01/2011 11:52:21 To a point I agree with you, however a few points of my own
- BS = Fail, their Sig radius is too high and on waves where there are bombers battleships go pop before they can be repped. Can get better performance for cheap out of a cruiser - PUG can be ****, but if you fit a useful ship, Command Ship, Guardian, or Hac you will be swamped with requests to join groups. My general rule currently is only fly with people that are willing to field ships almost as expensive as my own. For example I would not take my Command ship with a large amount of T1 frigs but HAC groups no problems. Just make sure the ship value of the gang is similar to your own. Also make sure there are NO UNKNOWN frig or destroyer flyers in group. - Payouts are not bad, I think with a balanced group you could clear 3-4 sites an hour (5-10man)
Only thing I am slightly worried about is getting the groups for the higher level sites but just from yesterday i now have 4-5 people on my contacts list to form up groups with.
Also impressed by PUG ability to spider tank off from the start.
If people are having problems getting in to groups start training logistics
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Target Painter
Minmatar
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Posted - 2011.01.26 11:57:00 -
[4]
Originally by: Comy 1 TL;DR
STOP BEING TERRIBLE
For all the bad things people say about sov 0.0 teaching you nothing, at very least they can generally fit their ships like non-******s and know what the broadcast button is. I never thought I'd have to teach people who have been playing the game for years what the fleet window was, how to buffer tank, what a primary is, but I did, and I realize now just how insulated a lot of the Empire carebears have been all this time.
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Comy 1
Ore Mongers Black Hand.
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Posted - 2011.01.26 11:57:00 -
[5]
Originally by: Von Tease Edited by: Von Tease on 26/01/2011 11:52:21 - BS = Fail, their Sig radius is too high and on waves where there are bombers battleships go pop before they can be repped. Can get better performance for cheap out of a cruiser
I really don't agree with you on this one. A battleship is something most people can use, compared to t2 cruiser/bc size ships. And even with their large sig radius we kept ships without a resist bonus (read typhoon) alive without breaking a sweat with our 3 guardians.
Worth to note is that none of our combat ships were equipped with remote rep modules, it was all handeled by the 3 logistics.
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Floydd Heywood
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Posted - 2011.01.26 12:18:00 -
[6]
So my assumptions/hopes were right about why so many players died and keep dying (can't try it myself before the weekend)
We are now a quite experienced wormhole gang with several logistics and pvp experience, so I guess we will do well enough.
And I'm glad to hear that battleships are suitable because I've maxed my skills in that area. The nice thing about battleships is that you don't have to worry about webs because you don't try to escape the full damage in the first place. Just tank it all. After the first reports I was worried though that it wouldn't be possible with the Sanshas.
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Crovax Parianic
New Eden Recon Force Beyond-Control
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Posted - 2011.01.26 12:39:00 -
[7]
All this is exactly the reason I don't bother with Incursions. Only thing that would me get going is a well organized corp that is on comms and has the things you described.
Everytime I hear about PUGS I just hear exploding ships.
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Doddy
Burning Vendetta
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Posted - 2011.01.26 12:58:00 -
[8]
While everything Comy says is true to an extent, you really don't need to all fly expensive ships. I was in a gang of 10 doing vanguard sites that included 2 t1 cruisers and a frig and got through the sites without anyone dieing. So long as people fit resists for the logis to keep up and know how to broadcast its not too hard. Of course 4 guardian supported abaddons would have done it a bit faster
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Lakut
Nobody expects the Spanish Inquisition
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Posted - 2011.01.26 13:03:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Doddy While everything Comy says is true to an extent, you really don't need to all fly expensive ships. I was in a gang of 10 doing vanguard sites that included 2 t1 cruisers and a frig and got through the sites without anyone dieing. So long as people fit resists for the logis to keep up and know how to broadcast its not too hard. Of course 4 guardian supported abaddons would have done it a bit faster
4 Guardians for the Vanguard sites was way overkill anyway.
Also, another protip: Gang Boosters that aren't on grid don't count towards the site's gang size limit. So if you have a spare gangbonus T3/CS alt to sit afk on a safespot, use it without lowering rewards. Most importantly, the issue is that this is already my signature. ---------- You get a wonderful view from the point of no return. |
Unkn0wn
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Posted - 2011.01.26 13:08:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Doddy While everything Comy says is true to an extent, you really don't need to all fly expensive ships. I was in a gang of 10 doing vanguard sites that included 2 t1 cruisers and a frig and got through the sites without anyone dieing. So long as people fit resists for the logis to keep up and know how to broadcast its not too hard. Of course 4 guardian supported abaddons would have done it a bit faster
I have done a few groups with Frigs, they are fine, but a valid point is, if you are flying an expensive ship, only fly with other expensive ships do not allow T1 in a group that has expensive t2 in. I am not going to risk a HAC in a group with T1 Frigs in. however for a full Hac gang, I will bring out a command ship with 300k EHP.
The point about BS, on Warp ins they are most vulnerable, as they can be alpha(ed) also on some sites we had 6 stealth bombers all firing at one battleship, it went pop when all 6 bombs landed. If he had a better buffer might have been fine, point being BS take lots of damage and need repping a lot in turn draining repping cycles from the group. Perfer Smaller faster ships that take less damage, and dont force perm RR on them.
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Comy 1
Ore Mongers Black Hand.
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Posted - 2011.01.26 13:14:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Doddy While everything Comy says is true to an extent, you really don't need to all fly expensive ships. I was in a gang of 10 doing vanguard sites that included 2 t1 cruisers and a frig and got through the sites without anyone dieing. So long as people fit resists for the logis to keep up and know how to broadcast its not too hard. Of course 4 guardian supported abaddons would have done it a bit faster
Where did I ever say you need all expensive ships?
I took our setup as an example, and specifically stating that the ships are interchangable as long as you have some type of synergy in the gang. And while I appreciate that it actually is possible to bring frigs and t1 cruisers, keep in mind that you want to make it all profitable. If you clear the sites way too slow, you might aswell run lvl 4 missions since that will probably be more profitable.
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Crimson Mash
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Posted - 2011.01.26 13:20:00 -
[12]
What about a RR Drake only gang?
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GyokZoli
Caldari
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Posted - 2011.01.26 13:29:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Unkn0wn
Originally by: Doddy While everything Comy says is true to an extent, you really don't need to all fly expensive ships. I was in a gang of 10 doing vanguard sites that included 2 t1 cruisers and a frig and got through the sites without anyone dieing. So long as people fit resists for the logis to keep up and know how to broadcast its not too hard. Of course 4 guardian supported abaddons would have done it a bit faster
I have done a few groups with Frigs, they are fine, but a valid point is, if you are flying an expensive ship, only fly with other expensive ships do not allow T1 in a group that has expensive t2 in. I am not going to risk a HAC in a group with T1 Frigs in. however for a full Hac gang, I will bring out a command ship with 300k EHP.
The point about BS, on Warp ins they are most vulnerable, as they can be alpha(ed) also on some sites we had 6 stealth bombers all firing at one battleship, it went pop when all 6 bombs landed. If he had a better buffer might have been fine, point being BS take lots of damage and need repping a lot in turn draining repping cycles from the group. Perfer Smaller faster ships that take less damage, and dont force perm RR on them.
Wait... these new sansha uses stealth bombers?? Or I'm missing something?
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Comy 1
Ore Mongers Black Hand.
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Posted - 2011.01.26 13:31:00 -
[14]
Edited by: Comy 1 on 26/01/2011 13:33:05
Originally by: GyokZoli Wait... these new sansha uses stealth bombers?? Or I'm missing something?
They have frigs using torpedoes, not bombs.
Originally by: Crimson Mash What about a RR Drake only gang?
I havent tested it myself, but try slapping in a couple of basilisks together with the drakes? Shouldn't be impossible, even though it might not be optimal. The drakes themselves will probably not be able to keep eachother alive, considering fitting problems for a large shield transfer module and the drakes capacitor being **** in general.
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Mithrasith
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Posted - 2011.01.26 13:33:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Crovax Parianic All this is exactly the reason I don't bother with Incursions. Only thing that would me get going is a well organized corp that is on comms and has the things you described.
Everytime I hear about PUGS I just hear exploding ships.
This. Im not going to be the suicide philanthropist attempting to boost the fleet with my expensive Command ships, nor donating other expensive T3 ships/logistics so that I can get dragged down by a bunch of folks that have no idea what it is like to fly in a fleet.
And this reason is percisely why incursions will either be painful for a very long time, or their implementation will fail in its current state.
It sounds like no one was even designated as target caller for the fleet and/or fleet commander/wing commander.
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Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
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Posted - 2011.01.26 13:39:00 -
[16]
Originally by: GyokZoli Wait... these new sansha uses stealth bombers?? Or I'm missing something?
More or lessà
More on topic, though: As for surviving the warp-in. I was thinking about outfitting a Damnation that was basically your average support brick (3+ armour links, DC, EANMs, plates) but with the mids full of ewar of various kinds. (Full, in this case meaning three of them, the fourth slot is for a cap booster.)
Since they're using tweaked sleeper AI, I'm guessing that the Sansha will hate ewar just as much as their w-space brethren. Throw in a TP a TD and something else (maybe some good old ECM, just to be annoying ù I don't think we know their approximate sensor strength yet and what the chances will be for a non-bonused ship) and that Damnation should be able to make every rat on the grid hate his guts and go after it quite a lot. The idea is that nice buffer + nice resists + aggro-grabbing modules = obvious RR target that keeps the Sansha occupied and generally just wreck havoc with their target preference lists.
Could anyone who's done a few sites comment on this notion? Crap or worth-while? ùùù ôIf you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡à you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.ö ù Karath Piki |
Jonni Favorite
Red Slice Enterprise The Company LLC
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Posted - 2011.01.26 13:44:00 -
[17]
Excellent post!
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Mithrasith
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Posted - 2011.01.26 13:56:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Tippia
Originally by: GyokZoli Wait... these new sansha uses stealth bombers?? Or I'm missing something?
More or lessà
More on topic, though: As for surviving the warp-in. I was thinking about outfitting a Damnation that was basically your average support brick (3+ armour links, DC, EANMs, plates) but with the mids full of ewar of various kinds. (Full, in this case meaning three of them, the fourth slot is for a cap booster.)
Since they're using tweaked sleeper AI, I'm guessing that the Sansha will hate ewar just as much as their w-space brethren. Throw in a TP a TD and something else (maybe some good old ECM, just to be annoying ù I don't think we know their approximate sensor strength yet and what the chances will be for a non-bonused ship) and that Damnation should be able to make every rat on the grid hate his guts and go after it quite a lot. The idea is that nice buffer + nice resists + aggro-grabbing modules = obvious RR target that keeps the Sansha occupied and generally just wreck havoc with their target preference lists.
Could anyone who's done a few sites comment on this notion? Crap or worth-while?
I was thinking Damnation as well for any armor gangs, Claymore/Sleipnir for any shield gangs.
You would definately need 2-3 Guardians repping you however (+mindlink ftw)
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Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
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Posted - 2011.01.26 14:05:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Mithrasith I was thinking Damnation as well for any armor gangs, Claymore/Sleipnir for any shield gangs.
You would definately need 2-3 Guardians repping you however (+mindlink ftw)
Sure, I had no intention of leaving out the logis. The idea is rather to provide a very obvious target for the Sansha to go after (hence the irritant ewar) to make life easier on the logi pilots, since they'll spend most of their time repping that single ship.
The key question is, though, whether the Sansha will react to that ewar the way I'm assuming (which I'm assuming mostly on the basis of what I've seen Sleepers do), or if they'll notice that it does fsck-all damage and just blow up something that is actually dangerous to themà ùùù ôIf you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡à you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.ö ù Karath Piki |
Mithrasith
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Posted - 2011.01.26 14:10:00 -
[20]
Edited by: Mithrasith on 26/01/2011 14:10:52
Originally by: Tippia
Originally by: Mithrasith I was thinking Damnation as well for any armor gangs, Claymore/Sleipnir for any shield gangs.
You would definately need 2-3 Guardians repping you however (+mindlink ftw)
Sure, I had no intention of leaving out the logis. The idea is rather to provide a very obvious target for the Sansha to go after (hence the irritant ewar) to make life easier on the logi pilots, since they'll spend most of their time repping that single ship.
The key question is, though, whether the Sansha will react to that ewar the way I'm assuming (which I'm assuming mostly on the basis of what I've seen Sleepers do), or if they'll notice that it does fsck-all damage and just blow up something that is actually dangerous to themà
From the reports ive heard, it certainly seems that Logi's are higher on the priority list than CS's (with CS's being a close competitor). It doesnt really seem to go by mods, but rather by ship type (Im no expert at the incursion sites however - havent even ventured in yet)
Im thinking that any Logi's will have to have sensor boosters for quicker lock time in order to get e/o locked up ASAP and start the repping. Just my 2 cents however.
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Comy 1
Ore Mongers Black Hand.
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Posted - 2011.01.26 14:13:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Mithrasith Im thinking that any Logi's will have to have sensor boosters for quicker lock time in order to get e/o locked up ASAP and start the repping. Just my 2 cents however.
Nonono, you want your afterburner and ECCM in the mids of a guardian. Please don't even consider a sensor booster.
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I Noob
Amarr
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Posted - 2011.01.26 14:14:00 -
[22]
great posts.
i missed the first day but i want to try incursions tonight (well, my eveneming anyways ;))
I wanted to try the most easy and smallest incursion sites. I believe 5 man fleets?
How hard are those? does this mean you need small ships frigates and so to complete or does this mean just a small fleet?
so still 2 logi's cruisers/bs, ewar/webber/speed/hacker and 2 dps ships BS/HAC?
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Fibby Sunhawk
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Posted - 2011.01.26 14:15:00 -
[23]
I for one enjoyed the great ball of fire that was Colelie yesterday. Never seen so many wrecks in a single place. I figured I could get into the site in my pod without getting aggro, so I sat at jump in and watched people trying to clear the site. I couldn't believe that some people actually threw in faction/pirate battleships and t3 hulls. I almost wanted to cry when I saw a Machariel getting blown up within seconds after landing.
People really need advice like this, good job on posting it.
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Mithrasith
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Posted - 2011.01.26 14:21:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Comy 1
Originally by: Mithrasith Im thinking that any Logi's will have to have sensor boosters for quicker lock time in order to get e/o locked up ASAP and start the repping. Just my 2 cents however.
Nonono, you want your afterburner and ECCM in the mids of a guardian. Please don't even consider a sensor booster.
So they jam too? Nice....in that case yes ECCM would be better.
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bgummer
Gallente Malicious Destruction
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Posted - 2011.01.26 14:22:00 -
[25]
i agree with most everything you said here, except i would recomend you hve everyone in teh fleet add tags to your overview, then have the FC tag targets. tags stay on the target till its dead or you change it. the broadcast is gone in like a min, and sometimes (well mabe more often than sometiems) your gona have to rebroadcast.
Anything worth doing, is worth over doing. |
Comy 1
Ore Mongers Black Hand.
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Posted - 2011.01.26 14:23:00 -
[26]
Originally by: bgummer i agree with most everything you said here, except i would recomend you hve everyone in teh fleet add tags to your overview, then have the FC tag targets. tags stay on the target till its dead or you change it. the broadcast is gone in like a min, and sometimes (well mabe more often than sometiems) your gona have to rebroadcast.
That's what broadcast history is for :)
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I Noob
Amarr
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Posted - 2011.01.26 14:44:00 -
[27]
Originally by: I Noob great posts.
i missed the first day but i want to try incursions tonight (well, my eveneming anyways ;))
I wanted to try the most easy and smallest incursion sites. I believe 5 man fleets?
How hard are those? does this mean you need small ships frigates and so to complete or does this mean just a small fleet?
so still 2 logi's cruisers/bs, ewar/webber/speed/hacker and 2 dps ships BS/HAC?
No one??? :(
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Mad Yojik
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Posted - 2011.01.26 14:50:00 -
[28]
Btw I'm curious - do Caldari HACs cut here,or just Min and Amarr (I know thare is saying "Caldari ships suck", but these are only ships of that sort I'll be able to fly soon)
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Comy 1
Ore Mongers Black Hand.
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Posted - 2011.01.26 14:51:00 -
[29]
Edited by: Comy 1 on 26/01/2011 14:56:23
Originally by: I Noob great posts.
i missed the first day but i want to try incursions tonight (well, my eveneming anyways ;))
I wanted to try the most easy and smallest incursion sites. I believe 5 man fleets?
How hard are those? does this mean you need small ships frigates and so to complete or does this mean just a small fleet?
so still 2 logi's cruisers/bs, ewar/webber/speed/hacker and 2 dps ships BS/HAC?
I haven't tried the scout sites myself, but I can't imageine that a group of 2 logi and 3 BC would have any problems what so ever doing it. It could probably work with 2 domis acting as logistics aswell in the easiest site (or 1 logi + 1 domi or w/e you can get together). The only type of ewar I would recommend as nessecary is webs.
As I keep saying, keep in mind that you want synergy. With that said I cant imagine the scout sites being especially hard as long as you work together.
Originally by: Mad Yojik Btw I'm curious - do Caldari HACs cut here,or just Min and Amarr (I know thare is saying "Caldari ships suck", but these are only ships of that sort I'll be able to fly soon)
The cerb sure is a nice ship when it comes to damage output, but I'm not sure about it's tanking abilities. Mainly because I never fly them myself. Eagle I have no comments on either. But I am confident that Caldari got other ships that will cut it for sure, like the nighthawk (just an example). Even though I normally don't like pure EFT warrioring compared to actually testing things for yourself, set up a cerb and compare it to a zealot and see how your resists and buffer looks like. It might work.
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Floydd Heywood
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Posted - 2011.01.26 15:30:00 -
[30]
What about range? I've heard corpmates report that some Sanshas stay 120+ km away. Are those in every site? How many? Do you suggest a mix of long-range and short-range fits for the fleet? Or is one ship with beams/arty enough?
I never had much use for beams until now, but thought about fitting an Armageddon with Beam Lasers for this.
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Comy 1
Ore Mongers Black Hand.
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Posted - 2011.01.26 15:32:00 -
[31]
Originally by: Floydd Heywood What about range? I've heard corpmates report that some Sanshas stay 120+ km away. Are those in every site? How many? Do you suggest a mix of long-range and short-range fits for the fleet? Or is one ship with beams/arty enough?
I never had much use for beams until now, but thought about fitting an Armageddon with Beam Lasers for this.
That won't happend until you hit assault or Headquarters. In the Vanguard sites they are all close range, except for 1 type of cruiser (that you don't HAVE to kill for the objective) that orbits at 60km
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Floydd Heywood
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Posted - 2011.01.26 15:41:00 -
[32]
Good to know, thanks. Will stick to pulses then. Scorch can hit quite well at 60 km when using a tracking link.
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Jason1138
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Posted - 2011.01.26 16:36:00 -
[33]
"Could anyone who's done a few sites comment on this notion? Crap or worth-while?"
we did a vanguard site last night and our ewar scorpions were by far the most popular target. 2nd most popular was drones for some weird ass reason
so if the damnation was the only thing doing ewar i'm sure it'd attract more than its fair share of attention
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Floydd Heywood
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Posted - 2011.01.26 18:20:00 -
[34]
If sleeper AI is any indication, ECM draws more aggro than anything else. Not all Ewar is the same, e.g. they don't give a damn about webs. I never noticed any particular effect on aggro by painting either.
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Rezard
Minmatar Fornax Chemica
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Posted - 2011.01.26 18:33:00 -
[35]
I totally support this advices, my corpmate and I managed to survive in drakes, but we watch navy ships pop like in 15 seconds even with some support, considering bringing HAC's with logistics.
-- I've seen things you podpilots wouldn't believe. Faction ships on fire off the shoulder of Algintal. I've watched Banshee Torpedo's glitter in the dark near the Parchanier Gate. All those... moments will be lost in time... like... carebear tears... in rain
Time to Patch.
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Female Face
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Posted - 2011.01.26 18:47:00 -
[36]
Originally by: Floydd Heywood If sleeper AI is any indication, ECM draws more aggro than anything else. Not all Ewar is the same, e.g. they don't give a damn about webs. I never noticed any particular effect on aggro by painting either.
In the fleet Op is referring to i was the cane pilot, in the first few vanguard sites i was using 1 web and drew aggro very rarely, however when i changed to a duel web fit i definitly drew more aggro so i dont agree that they ignore webs
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Dueling Chainsaws
Caldari The Dominion of Light
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Posted - 2011.01.26 22:12:00 -
[37]
At what range do they start ECM'ing?
--- I'm pretty sure that cucumbers are not a structurally sound building material for castles, particularly if the base is submerged in cranberry juice. |
Alena Redruth
Viral Target
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Posted - 2011.01.26 22:57:00 -
[38]
Edited by: Alena Redruth on 26/01/2011 23:02:46 Edited by: Alena Redruth on 26/01/2011 23:00:15 OP is right on the money, if you dont know how to fit properly go to battlecinic and look up what people use in wormholes as its pretty similar combat.
And if you show up and ask in the incursion channel "Where is the fight?" or "How do i find Sansha?" Please go dock somewhere, read the dev blogs, and get a properly fitted ship before you do anything. theres a couple thousand losses from the algintal constellation already, im guessing a good 20% at least are passive drakes.
(Last night in alginatal incursion channel)
CCP TomB - guys, here's a tip CCP TomB - do it well instead of sucking
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Pytria Le'Danness
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Posted - 2011.01.27 07:55:00 -
[39]
Originally by: Rezard I've seen things you podpilots wouldn't believe. Faction ships on fire off the shoulder of Algintal. I've watched Banshee Torpedo's glitter in the dark near the Parchanier Gate. All those... moments will be lost in time... like... carebear tears... in rain
Time to Patch.
I SO am going to steal that quote . Great quote, great movie, and so beautifully adapted to the current EVE situation
One thing that popped into my mind while reading this thread: just because you are in a big fleet it does not mean you'll survive everything. Stay out of HQ systems until you've got the hang of it. On SiSi we've tried HQ sites and lost BS despite them being repped by two Logistics (I guess our repping cycles were wrong). We've lost Logistics to alpha strikes before they even knew they've been targeted.
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Gerard Gendri
Gallente Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
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Posted - 2011.01.27 13:38:00 -
[40]
Edited by: Gerard Gendri on 27/01/2011 13:38:45 Hahaha empire pubbies.
Say what you like about nullsec, it actually makes you slightly competent at EVE.
I was with a Dreddit gang that ran an assault incursion with a dozen drakes, 3 basilisks, 1 scimitar and a hurricane yesterday. **** is boring and not much of a challenge at all compared to real 0.0 combat.
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Jonni Favorite
Red Slice Enterprise The Company LLC
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Posted - 2011.01.27 17:39:00 -
[41]
Originally by: Gerard Gendri Edited by: Gerard Gendri on 27/01/2011 13:38:45 Hahaha empire pubbies.
Say what you like about nullsec, it actually makes you slightly competent at EVE.
I was with a Dreddit gang that ran an assault incursion with a dozen drakes, 3 basilisks, 1 scimitar and a hurricane yesterday. **** is boring and not much of a challenge at all compared to real 0.0 combat.
I was waiting for the *go back to Wow* comment, thanks for sparing us
The way I see it, Incursions is an excellent way for novices and empire people that are unfamiliar with fleet warfare to get their feet wet and if they like it, despite heavy initial casualties, learn how to work together and eventually progress to 0.0 combat. Meanwhile if you're in nullsec, they are a new isk farm and another potential point of conflict with other alliances. |
Darth Zaruln
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Posted - 2011.01.27 18:12:00 -
[42]
Originally by: Gerard Gendri Edited by: Gerard Gendri on 27/01/2011 13:38:45 I take this game way too seriously and love letting people know. I am a null sec pubbie.
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Floydd Heywood
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Posted - 2011.01.28 01:55:00 -
[43]
Finally had time to check this out today, did one vanguard site with my corp. Just in time to contribute a little to the first successfully repelled incursion
We had 12 pilots... well that were the people that were available and at 12 the payout is still ok, considering this was a test. It was the first try for all of us but thanks to our knowledge (obtained from threads like this and other people's horrible deaths ) and prior pvp experience we did quite well û didn't lose anything except one cheap hacking frig.
I piloted an Oneiros and an Abaddon. I was a bit worried about the Oneiros because of low buffer but it was more than enough. Abaddon was even smoother, even if I had most aggro there was plenty of time for our logis to switch target.
Three of our ships almost popped, one survived with ~10% hull. It turned out that they had bad resists, like three resists 70+ but explosive only 50%. Well, I think their pilots have learned the lesson.
We took too long though because we lacked webs (as I pointed out before we started). Next time we'll bring a Minmatar Recon and maybe a Paladin, then Vanguard sites should be a walk in the park. Today we didn't even have a command ship because the pilot was needed in a logi.
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Genera Prophet
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Posted - 2011.01.28 02:46:00 -
[44]
OK, so, let me get this straight... correct me if I'm wrong:
1) Blame noobs and carebears because you uber-experienced leet PVPers can't be bothered to share any info 2) Blame fits because... well, same reason as #1 3) If you can't fly T2 EFFECTIVELY with max skills, **** off 4) FCs are completely blameless 5) Don't accept people in your fleet who have never been in one before.
Sweet. Thanks for the tips! Glad to see so many who think everyone isn't playing Eve the way they should are strengthening the private club even more. :)
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Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
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Posted - 2011.01.28 02:57:00 -
[45]
Originally by: Genera Prophet 1) Blame noobs and carebears because you uber-experienced leet PVPers can't be bothered to share any info
Nope. This information has been public knowledge for two years, at least.
Quote: 2) Blame fits because... well, same reason as #1
àand thus wrong for the same reason.
Quote: 3) If you can't fly T2 EFFECTIVELY with max skills, **** off
Nope ù straw man. It's rather the opposite: unlike standard missions, where people generally want to max things out, you can go with a specialist ship and get by even with a rather restricted skillset. Also, T2 is not needed (although some specialist ships are T2 and they make life a lot easier).
Quote: 4) FCs are completely blameless
Nope. Straw man.
Quote: 5) Don't accept people in your fleet who have never been in one before.
Nope. Straw man. However, until (if) they make changes to the GCC redistribution mechanics, you should be a bit wary of accepting people you don't know into your fleet. ùùù ôIf you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡à you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.ö ù Karath Piki |
Comy 1
Ore Mongers Black Hand.
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Posted - 2011.01.28 03:09:00 -
[46]
Originally by: Genera Prophet OK, so, let me get this straight... correct me if I'm wrong:
1) Blame noobs and carebears because you uber-experienced leet PVPers can't be bothered to share any info 2) Blame fits because... well, same reason as #1 3) If you can't fly T2 EFFECTIVELY with max skills, **** off 4) FCs are completely blameless 5) Don't accept people in your fleet who have never been in one before.
Sweet. Thanks for the tips! Glad to see so many who think everyone isn't playing Eve the way they should are strengthening the private club even more. :)
Thank you for proving why this thread is needed.
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Genera Prophet
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Posted - 2011.01.28 03:17:00 -
[47]
Originally by: Comy 1 Thank you for proving why this thread is needed.
Glad to provide clarity after your whining wall o' text.
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Trinkets friend
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Posted - 2011.01.28 03:42:00 -
[48]
Originally by: Genera Prophet
1) No one held my hand and I didn't join EVE Uni or a noob-friendly corp, nor did I read the Dev Blogs or go onto SiSi or read the forum posts. Waah. 2) Warp core stabs fix everything, amirite? 3) Bawww I don't have 70M SP's and if I do I bought my toon and now want my money back 4) "What means primary?" "What's a fleet window?" "I stabbed F1 at everything why are we CONCORDOKKENED?" 5) "My rattlesnake can tank anything, amirite?"
Fixed.
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Target Painter
Minmatar
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Posted - 2011.01.28 07:16:00 -
[49]
Originally by: Genera Prophet Sweet. Thanks for the tips! Glad to see so many who think everyone isn't playing Eve the way they should are strengthening the private club even more. :)
This is the kind of post you make after years of single-player EVE.
Show me where on the doll I can have your stuff before you go back to WoW.
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Gavin Darklighter
Malicious Destruction
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Posted - 2011.01.28 08:15:00 -
[50]
Originally by: Genera Prophet OK, so, let me get this straight... correct me if I'm wrong:
1) Blame noobs and carebears because you uber-experienced leet PVPers can't be bothered to share any info 2) Blame fits because... well, same reason as #1 3) If you can't fly T2 EFFECTIVELY with max skills, **** off 4) FCs are completely blameless 5) Don't accept people in your fleet who have never been in one before.
Sweet. Thanks for the tips! Glad to see so many who think everyone isn't playing Eve the way they should are strengthening the private club even more. :)
This is high end content. If you can't handle it, go back to your level three missions.
signature picture exceeds the size limit.~WeatherMan |
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ArchenTheGreat
Caldari Nomads of Zen
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Posted - 2011.01.28 13:01:00 -
[51]
Edited by: ArchenTheGreat on 28/01/2011 13:01:38 Years ago when you were in gang (this is how fleets were called back then) you could safely shoot gang members. Unfortunately too many carebears died to griefers and they whined too laudly. So, CCP changed rules and now you can't shoot gang members.
CCP, maybe it's time to revert those changes?
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Malcanis
Caldari Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
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Posted - 2011.01.28 13:12:00 -
[52]
Edited by: Malcanis on 28/01/2011 13:14:22
Originally by: Mad Yojik Btw I'm curious - do Caldari HACs cut here,or just Min and Amarr (I know thare is saying "Caldari ships suck", but these are only ships of that sort I'll be able to fly soon)
Caldari HACs tend to have a large sig radius, and not that many EHP, which makes them vulnerable to getting alpha'd. If you fly smart and bring your cerb in after the rats have aggro'd on the heavy ships, you could be very useful, but to be honest you're better off bringing a Drake, with it's big shield buffer, extra midslot and good omni resists, plus it does more DPS and has drones.
I wouldn't bother with an Eagle.
EDIT: A Nighthawk would be an excellent ship to bring though: Very good tank, decent DPS, good vs small targets.
Malcanis' Law: Whenever a mechanics change is proposed on behalf of "new players", that change is always to the overwhelming advantage of richer, older players. |
Veryez
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Posted - 2011.01.28 13:24:00 -
[53]
Originally by: Dueling Chainsaws At what range do they start ECM'ing?
I've been ecm'ed by a frigate at 107k.
Hit by a cruiser at 250+k.
And I can second that sansha's have a deep love for ecm Scorps, even ones with a heavy tank and only a few ecm mods. Don't think they bothered with our logistic much at all
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Hiroshima Jita
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Posted - 2011.01.28 15:03:00 -
[54]
General Prophet you sound bitter and resentful that some people are better at the game than you. You complain about lack of information about how to play the game well despite its abundance. Then you complain that better players are trying to force noobs to behave in specific ways. So are they force feeding you the information or hiding it from you?
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Comy 1
Ore Mongers Black Hand.
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Posted - 2011.01.28 15:26:00 -
[55]
Originally by: Genera Prophet
Originally by: Comy 1 Thank you for proving why this thread is needed.
Glad to provide clarity after your whining wall o' text.
Try reading the thread again, and then read your own posts.
I can however confirm that I get secret newsletters from CCP with all info about the game that NO ONE ELSE HAS EVER SEEN. This gives me the edge I need to act like an ass on the forums. I mean the sole purpose of this thread is to gloat about my superior knowledge gained through unfair advantages.
Take your head out of your own butt and actually read my OP without crying since you feel offended by the title. The information you need to successfully be better at this game is in there. The same information you could have obtained yourself by doing the same kind of testing on the live server as me and many others did.
But if you want to keep being bitter, thinking life is unfair because god forbid someone actually share his experience to help others then please do so. But refrain from ****ting up my thread.
Adios
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Karl Reese
Caldari
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Posted - 2011.01.28 17:09:00 -
[56]
I don't know the ship composition of heavier sites, but in vanguard almost everything is a fast frig. Even with webs, HMLs are the best medium weapon to use in vanguard sites because of sig radius. I wouldn't even bother taking BS sized weapons into vanguards because the sansha spawn so close that you don't get much of a chance to shoot most of them at low transversal, and their sig radius is tiny.
That said, if you do take battleships, take armor battleships. Everybody should bring a tracking computer and a target painter.
So basically, 8 drakes with some optional RR and cap transfer and 2 basilisks will be enough. If by some random coincidence the sansha actually neut a basi and then ECM the other one (cause you know the AI wouldn't do something like that on purpose : / ) then it would be helpful to have a backup plan like RR/cap transfer on the drakes or a dominix with that stuff.
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CarnegieSteel
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Posted - 2011.01.28 18:22:00 -
[57]
Dont forget to have a ship giving out links.
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Movit
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Posted - 2011.01.31 12:34:00 -
[58]
Uhm, one question. Upon completion of the vanguard site, when do you receive the ISK and the LP& right away or latter?
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Jagga Spikes
Minmatar Spikes Chop Shop
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Posted - 2011.01.31 12:42:00 -
[59]
ISK is received when site is completed. LP is received when entire incursion is completed ________________________________ : Forum Bore 'Em : Foamy The Squirrel - [jedi handwave] "There is no spoon." |
Movit
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Posted - 2011.01.31 13:45:00 -
[60]
Oh, and one other question.
If we did an encounter we would definately get the LP or the LP is given only to a most active fleet in the named encursion?
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Floydd Heywood
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Posted - 2011.01.31 14:04:00 -
[61]
It's given to the most effective fleet in the site. When you complete the site you see in your journal what LP you'll get once someone finishes the incursion.
So you have to be the best fleet in the site, but not the best fleet in the whole incursion. That would suck
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Hiro Shingami
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Posted - 2011.01.31 17:22:00 -
[62]
so... RR domi's anyone know if that would work? maybe 4-5 RR/Cap chain Domi's with high resist and good buffer? i know its all drones but domis can carry a ton anyway. Either that or fully passive buffer rattlesnakes but i chose to use the extremely cheap domi over the (still cheap for pirate BS) rattlesnake but you tell me. |
Cambarus
Malicious Destruction
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Posted - 2011.01.31 17:47:00 -
[63]
Originally by: Floydd Heywood It's given to the most effective fleet in the site. When you complete the site you see in your journal what LP you'll get once someone finishes the incursion.
So you have to be the best fleet in the site, but not the best fleet in the whole incursion. That would suck
This is not true. I had to test this the other day in a vanguard nation commander site. My fleet killed 20 rats, the other fleet killed 14, and we were also the ones who killed off the nation commander rat. Given that the only objective in that site is to make everything dead, and we were the better fleet at doing so, we should have got the payment. We did not. I'm told it might be that the BIGGEST fleet gets the payment, which would make sense given that there was 3 of us and like 10 of the other guys, but that would be a really, REALLY stupid way to decide payouts >_> |
mfw
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Posted - 2011.01.31 19:02:00 -
[64]
Originally by: Cambarus
Originally by: Floydd Heywood It's given to the most effective fleet in the site. When you complete the site you see in your journal what LP you'll get once someone finishes the incursion.
So you have to be the best fleet in the site, but not the best fleet in the whole incursion. That would suck
This is not true. I had to test this the other day in a vanguard nation commander site. My fleet killed 20 rats, the other fleet killed 14, and we were also the ones who killed off the nation commander rat. Given that the only objective in that site is to make everything dead, and we were the better fleet at doing so, we should have got the payment. We did not. I'm told it might be that the BIGGEST fleet gets the payment, which would make sense given that there was 3 of us and like 10 of the other guys, but that would be a really, REALLY stupid way to decide payouts >_>
Unless you know precisely what ship types were killed by whom and at what time, that is far from sufficient evidence to show that it doesn't go to the "best" fleet.
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Cambarus
Malicious Destruction
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Posted - 2011.01.31 22:16:00 -
[65]
Originally by: mfw
Originally by: Cambarus
Originally by: Floydd Heywood It's given to the most effective fleet in the site. When you complete the site you see in your journal what LP you'll get once someone finishes the incursion.
So you have to be the best fleet in the site, but not the best fleet in the whole incursion. That would suck
This is not true. I had to test this the other day in a vanguard nation commander site. My fleet killed 20 rats, the other fleet killed 14, and we were also the ones who killed off the nation commander rat. Given that the only objective in that site is to make everything dead, and we were the better fleet at doing so, we should have got the payment. We did not. I'm told it might be that the BIGGEST fleet gets the payment, which would make sense given that there was 3 of us and like 10 of the other guys, but that would be a really, REALLY stupid way to decide payouts >_>
Unless you know precisely what ship types were killed by whom and at what time, that is far from sufficient evidence to show that it doesn't go to the "best" fleet.
Picture of the wrecks
You'll notice that there are more white wrecks than yellow ones, and that the nation commander wreck is white. Both fleets warped in at the same time. |
Liadan Khanum
Gallente Dragon Armed Mercenary Escort Squadron
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Posted - 2011.01.31 22:41:00 -
[66]
Ship weighting could determine the biggest contributor, or it could be determined by total damage and not just whose shot killed the ship. In some ways I hope it is total damage, or ninja fleets will hold fire until sansha's are into hull then open up to steal some kills.
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Mara Rinn
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Posted - 2011.02.01 04:59:00 -
[67]
Originally by: Cambarus à I had to test this the other day in a vanguard nation commander à there was 3 of us and like 10 of the other guys
Try this again, except enter the vanguard site with the minimum fleet size to guarantee a 100% reward ratio.
-- [Aussie players: join ANZAC channel] |
Cambarus
Malicious Destruction
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Posted - 2011.02.01 05:42:00 -
[68]
Originally by: Mara Rinn
Originally by: Cambarus à I had to test this the other day in a vanguard nation commander à there was 3 of us and like 10 of the other guys
Try this again, except enter the vanguard site with the minimum fleet size to guarantee a 100% reward ratio.
We had 6 alts as well to insure full payout :) |
Floydd Heywood
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Posted - 2011.02.01 09:41:00 -
[69]
Were those 6 alts on grid and uncloaked? Otherwise they don't count.
Maybe it's really the fleet that had optimal numbers (on grid), and only after that, if there are several with optimal numbers, the one which did most damage is preferred.
Tbh so far we never had competition in our sites. We do Override Transfer Arrays which seem to be the hardest Vanguard site, maybe that's why.
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Hola Dilo
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Posted - 2011.02.01 12:30:00 -
[70]
Quote: so... RR domi's anyone know if that would work? maybe 4-5 RR/Cap chain Domi's with high resist and good buffer? i know its all drones but domis can carry a ton anyway. Either that or fully passive buffer rattlesnakes but i chose to use the extremely cheap domi over the (still cheap for pirate BS) rattlesnake but you tell me.
RR-Domis should work pretty well for Vanguard sites. We completed one (Nation mining colony) yesterday on Sisi with 4 people. 4 people is the bottom line, I think with less people you will get problems. We did not use Domis, but 3 Megas & 1 Abba. Our Vanguard site did only contain frigs and cruisers, so large weapons are not very effective. The NPCs orbit between 11 and 23km. Only one cruiser is about 60km away. We did most of the damage using drones, so Domis should be a lot better. Incursion Sanshas do not hunt drones like sleepers do. We lost 2 drones in about 2h of fighting.
Build up the cap transfer chain. Everyone should be cap stable with a single remote repper running. Cap booster should only be necessary, if you need to use the 2nd remote repper or if the cap chain is broken by the ecm frigs.
Kill the neut/ecm frigs first (Niarja ....), then kill the bombers (Tama ...), finally anything else.
I would suggest a fitting like this:
[Dominix, RR-Domi Incursion] 1600mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I Armor Explosive Hardener II Armor Explosive Hardener II Armor Kinetic Hardener II Armor Thermic Hardener II Armor EM Hardener II Damage Control II
Heavy Electrochemical Capacitor Booster I, Cap Booster 800 Cap Recharger II Cap Recharger II Cap Recharger II Sensor Booster II, Scan Resolution
Large Remote Armor Repair System II Large Remote Armor Repair System II Large Energy Transfer Array II Drone Link Augmentor I 425mm Railgun II, Antimatter Charge L 425mm Railgun II, Antimatter Charge L
Large Remote Repair Augmentor I Large Remote Repair Augmentor I Large Trimark Armor Pump I
Hobgoblin II x5 Hammerhead II x5 Medium Armor Maintenance Bot I x5 Warden II x4 Garde II x5 Warrior II x5
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Cambarus
Malicious Destruction
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Posted - 2011.02.01 17:45:00 -
[71]
Originally by: Floydd Heywood Were those 6 alts on grid and uncloaked? Otherwise they don't count.
Maybe it's really the fleet that had optimal numbers (on grid), and only after that, if there are several with optimal numbers, the one which did most damage is preferred.
Tbh so far we never had competition in our sites. We do Override Transfer Arrays which seem to be the hardest Vanguard site, maybe that's why.
They were at the gate, which for payment purposes still counts (otherwise we wouldn't leave em there :P ) |
UrsaeMajoris
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Posted - 2011.02.02 01:24:00 -
[72]
Originally by: Cambarus
Originally by: Floydd Heywood Were those 6 alts on grid and uncloaked? Otherwise they don't count.
Maybe it's really the fleet that had optimal numbers (on grid), and only after that, if there are several with optimal numbers, the one which did most damage is preferred.
Tbh so far we never had competition in our sites. We do Override Transfer Arrays which seem to be the hardest Vanguard site, maybe that's why.
They were at the gate, which for payment purposes still counts (otherwise we wouldn't leave em there :P )
Doesn't count actually. You must be fleeted and IN the mission site past the gate. You could hypothetically have a hundred people fleeted and waiting at the acceleration gate but they will NOT receive any rewards upon mission completion nor will they affect the payout for those inside the mission.
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Cambarus
Malicious Destruction
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Posted - 2011.02.02 03:30:00 -
[73]
Originally by: UrsaeMajoris
Originally by: Cambarus
Originally by: Floydd Heywood Were those 6 alts on grid and uncloaked? Otherwise they don't count.
Maybe it's really the fleet that had optimal numbers (on grid), and only after that, if there are several with optimal numbers, the one which did most damage is preferred.
Tbh so far we never had competition in our sites. We do Override Transfer Arrays which seem to be the hardest Vanguard site, maybe that's why.
They were at the gate, which for payment purposes still counts (otherwise we wouldn't leave em there :P )
Doesn't count actually. You must be fleeted and IN the mission site past the gate. You could hypothetically have a hundred people fleeted and waiting at the acceleration gate but they will NOT receive any rewards upon mission completion nor will they affect the payout for those inside the mission.
I've got about a billion isk in my wallet that begs to differ. In the future don't go correcting people when you've not actually tested it. |
Floydd Heywood
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Posted - 2011.02.02 08:26:00 -
[74]
Ugh. If you're right this needs to be fixed. Pilots that are not in danger of being shot by the sanshas shouldn't get rewards
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Cambarus
Malicious Destruction
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Posted - 2011.02.02 09:07:00 -
[75]
Originally by: Floydd Heywood Ugh. If you're right this needs to be fixed. Pilots that are not in danger of being shot by the sanshas shouldn't get rewards
Change it and we'd just make the alts use MSE merlins (frigs mitigate nearly all the damage dealt to them) and bring them into the site. It would also cripple leadership alts, which pretty much everyone uses for these.
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Sasha Tu
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Posted - 2011.02.02 09:44:00 -
[76]
Originally by: Floydd Heywood Ugh. If you're right this needs to be fixed. Pilots that are not in danger of being shot by the sanshas shouldn't get rewards
But I think that if you loose a non-noob / shuttle ship in combat with them, you should ....
I was in fleet last nite, got my cmd ship blown up, but was FC, stayed in my pod to call targets, we finished, and i was notified I wasn't getting anything...
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Floydd Heywood
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Posted - 2011.02.02 10:01:00 -
[77]
Why not bring alts that actually fight? But if you can make your alts survive in the site, I think it's ok. That at least requires some planning and cleverness, while anyone can just stand at a gate in a 100k t1 frig and no skills.
We use a leadership char too, in a command ship on grid. Easier to keep alive than anything else.
So now it's possible to earn lots of money while not even being at home: Just have your fleetmates warp you around to the gates. Only check back every hour or so to see if they had to go to the next solar system. The others won't mind because unlike other activities they don't have to split the loot, they get even more. That can't be right.
That said, unless that is changed I'm going to start exploiting it too, of course
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mistersparky
Estrale Frontiers
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Posted - 2011.02.02 13:06:00 -
[78]
Lots of good advice in the OP, I would highly advise a read before you attempt these sites.
IÆve be running a few vanguard sites in gangs similar to that listed in the OP û a handful of BS, 2 or 3 logis and then some T3/HACs/BCs for tackle and hacking duties.
There are a couple of things I am curious about. First of all, how much of a jump is there from the Vanguard to Assault sites? Can you just take the same type of fleet you would for Vanguard site, but just double up on everything? Does it require a different approach or any different tactics?
Second of all, electronic warfare û webs are obviously very handy in hitting smaller ships, and preventing quicker ships getting range on you. TPs also seem useful against the smaller stuff. Scrams donÆt seem to affect the MWDing rats, so are of no use. What about ECM and TDs? How useful would they be û especially in the higher end sites?
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Comy 1
Ore Mongers Black Hand.
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Posted - 2011.02.02 13:23:00 -
[79]
Originally by: mistersparky Lots of good advice in the OP, I would highly advise a read before you attempt these sites.
IÆve be running a few vanguard sites in gangs similar to that listed in the OP û a handful of BS, 2 or 3 logis and then some T3/HACs/BCs for tackle and hacking duties.
There are a couple of things I am curious about. First of all, how much of a jump is there from the Vanguard to Assault sites? Can you just take the same type of fleet you would for Vanguard site, but just double up on everything? Does it require a different approach or any different tactics?
Second of all, electronic warfare û webs are obviously very handy in hitting smaller ships, and preventing quicker ships getting range on you. TPs also seem useful against the smaller stuff. Scrams donÆt seem to affect the MWDing rats, so are of no use. What about ECM and TDs? How useful would they be û especially in the higher end sites?
THe big difference in assault sites is that you will have sniper rats orbiting at about 140km range. And these are cruisers and BS. To run these efficiently you will need to change your setup a bit, since it won't be efficient to fly all your ships all over the site to catch every ship. Regarding TD and ECM, lets just say that they are nice to have if you got the spare slots, but far from essential.
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Floydd Heywood
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Posted - 2011.02.02 14:33:00 -
[80]
What do you think is required in terms of logistics? If we do Vanguard sites with 10 pilots including two logis with ease, will we be able to do Assault sites with maybe 12 pilots and 3 logistics? Or is it more like 5 logis? (Note that so far battleships make up most of our fleet.)
Btw, from my limited experience I didn't notice any particular aggro preferences. If anything, our ECM-using command ship and the logis drew less aggro than the battleships.
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Cambarus
Malicious Destruction
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Posted - 2011.02.02 14:42:00 -
[81]
We did assault sites with I think 4 logis and a leadership alt. TBH though you want to aim for 20 people in the fleet, otherwise you'd get much better isk/hour running vanguards |
mistersparky
Estrale Frontiers
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Posted - 2011.02.02 14:58:00 -
[82]
Originally by: Comy 1
THe big difference in assault sites is that you will have sniper rats orbiting at about 140km range. And these are cruisers and BS. To run these efficiently you will need to change your setup a bit, since it won't be efficient to fly all your ships all over the site to catch every ship. Regarding TD and ECM, lets just say that they are nice to have if you got the spare slots, but far from essential.
Thanks a lot for the reply.
Is there still enough close range stuff (>20km) to bring CR BS, leaving the T3/HACs to chase around after snipers, or will the BS class ships (and any other small hulls) need to fit to snipe themselves?
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Comy 1
Ore Mongers Black Hand.
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Posted - 2011.02.02 17:28:00 -
[83]
Originally by: mistersparky
Originally by: Comy 1
THe big difference in assault sites is that you will have sniper rats orbiting at about 140km range. And these are cruisers and BS. To run these efficiently you will need to change your setup a bit, since it won't be efficient to fly all your ships all over the site to catch every ship. Regarding TD and ECM, lets just say that they are nice to have if you got the spare slots, but far from essential.
Thanks a lot for the reply.
Is there still enough close range stuff (>20km) to bring CR BS, leaving the T3/HACs to chase around after snipers, or will the BS class ships (and any other small hulls) need to fit to snipe themselves?
We refit our abaddons to tachyons for the assault sites
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Xrst
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Posted - 2011.02.04 16:50:00 -
[84]
I haven't tried an Incursion yet. But would like to know, do frigates have any role in an Incursion fleet, besides a half second meat shield?
In other words, if someone showed up to an Incursion, could they expect to be invited into a fleet? How should the ship be fitted and what would be their role? What would the chances of surviving be, if any?
There's been mention that NPC frigs cause a lot of trouble for fleets. Would a player in a frig or AF targeting NPC frigs, dealing damage and/or webbing, be a viable fleet member? If so, would they last long? BTW, good post.
TL;DR Do frigs have a role in a fleet and have a chance to survive? If so, what ship fit?
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Rens Cheque
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Posted - 2011.02.04 17:03:00 -
[85]
Originally by: Xrst I haven't tried an Incursion yet. But would like to know, do frigates have any role in an Incursion fleet, besides a half second meat shield?
In other words, if someone showed up to an Incursion, could they expect to be invited into a fleet? How should the ship be fitted and what would be their role? What would the chances of surviving be, if any?
There's been mention that NPC frigs cause a lot of trouble for fleets. Would a player in a frig or AF targeting NPC frigs, dealing damage and/or webbing, be a viable fleet member? If so, would they last long? BTW, good post.
TL;DR Do frigs have a role in a fleet and have a chance to survive? If so, what ship fit?
There are sites that require hacking cans and the cans can be very far apart, so a fast frig with a codebreaker is great for those. In regular combat frigs have not been as popular from what I've seen. Webbing sansha frigs is extremely useful, but it can typically be done by a web bonused Loki or even just a battleship with a free mid which can web and also fit a remote rep in the highs for example.
Since the number of people in a fleet is limited, you really need to maximize the utility of each member, and as a result, the only real demand I've seen for frigs is as codebreakers.
Maybe someone else has had a different experience?
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Dusica
Amarr
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Posted - 2011.02.04 17:49:00 -
[86]
Good post.
Tho pulse lasers have far worse tracking then any short range weapon systems ( AC and blasters ). It is common misconception. They work good on range since more range = easier to track stuff.
So what is really good about them is that they have superior optimal range. And Abaddon in particular is great fleet ship since it has great resistances and good damage due to nice bonuses that go well with logistic support :) --------------- There can be ... only one ! |
n00n3r
Caldari Malicious Destruction
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Posted - 2011.02.05 07:25:00 -
[87]
I usually fly the token hacking rifter in the override sites that we do, but lately have been getting tired of not being able to contribute much to the fight besides the hack.
So I swapped out that fast rifter for a MWD Cerberus. By doing this I am able to keep dps on the field and still hack the cans. The only catch is that since the Cerberus is putting dps on the field it tends to catch aggro a little more. So I had to make sure and keep a Logi within 70km of it.
So far it's working out pretty well. _____________________________________________
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