Originally by: Dramaticus

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CCP doesn't care about botting unless it involves RMT and evidence that botting itself is harming the game is dubious at best.

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Originally by: James Tiberius Kirk

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Note: As a person who's income is coming from market games or mission running, I have no direct quarrel with bots as one might assume. However, I am concerned about the current and future state of my favorite game.

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Originally by: Dramaticus

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CCP doesn't care about botting unless it involves RMT and evidence that botting itself is harming the game is dubious at best.

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Originally by: Val'Dore

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Originally by: James Tiberius Kirk

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Note: As a person who's income is coming from market games or mission running, I have no direct quarrel with bots as one might assume. However, I am concerned about the current and future state of my favorite game.

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Yes, you do.

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Originally by: Ephemeron

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Some people just play like bots. And neither you nor CCP can tell for sure if there's a real person behind the computer, without discriminating against stupid.

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Quote:

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Are you seriously suggesting there are players out there who play 23/7 ratting in null sec, then warping off and cloaking up when someone enters the system?

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Quote:

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Are you really suggesting there are players out there with no corp history, barely 3 months old, and fly an industrial through low sec all day every day 23/7?

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Quote:

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Are you implying that all those players with zxbdqkl names who mine ice belts in high sec 23/7, with no corp history, barely 3 months old, and warp back and forth from station to belt repeatedly in their pod after they get ganked aren't bots?

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Originally by: Ephemeron

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There are people who play 8 hours a day and leave EVE running overnight while AFK cloaked. I used to do that.
Most cases it only looks like the player is 23/7, when in reality it's probably 6 hours or less and AFK the rest...

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Originally by: Maxx Overseer

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what about key binding, (is it the same?) can we use them or do we have them? I used them in other games and I liked them pretty much.

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Originally by: CCP Navigator

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Great story but you probably want this in CAOD so feel free to post there with your main.

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Originally by: Othran

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Edited by: Othran on 28/01/2011 11:45:27
Supported but money is the bottom line so CCP will do nothing.

They can't afford to lose 30%+ of their accounts with two other games still in development and eating up the revenue from Eve.

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Originally by: Infinity Ziona

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Edited by: Infinity Ziona on 28/01/2011 14:20:04
Supported.

At least start with a damn self check of the client. Its not too hard for a program to check its own processes to detect injected code that shouldn't be there while the client is running.

Checking for a large variety of constantly evolving programs running on the users computer is a lot more difficult but the former should be in every MMO that has an economy at risk of RMT and macro / botting.

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Originally by: Jack Gilligan

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Originally by: Infinity Ziona

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Edited by: Infinity Ziona on 28/01/2011 14:20:04
Supported.

At least start with a damn self check of the client. Its not too hard for a program to check its own processes to detect injected code that shouldn't be there while the client is running.

Checking for a large variety of constantly evolving programs running on the users computer is a lot more difficult but the former should be in every MMO that has an economy at risk of RMT and macro / botting.

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They should be able to build into the client a block that only allows itself access to the server.

Also, considering that bot programs are advertised, why can't CCP acquire copies of them themselves and build simple detection into the client to make it exit the game if any of those programs are running.

Another option would be to have the client look for those programs on the PC when it launches, and if it detects them, delete them.

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Originally by: James Tiberius Kirk

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Thumbs up if you think next CSM should bring this situation to the table and ask why is CCP openly allowing bots to flourish.

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Originally by: Henry Haphorn

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You know, I'm getting quite annoyed with people around here accusing CCP of not wanting to get rid of bots for revenue reasons. (...) And besides, they have limited resources to deal with bots on a individual level since much of their resources are still focused on the development of the game (not to mention the incoming Incarna expansion).

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Originally by: Ranka Mei

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Being online 23/7 is not a sign of being a bot per se -- mining 23/7, however, is!

Since it would take CCP like 5 minutes to write a small script to see who falls into the latter category, the only logical inference must be that they don't give a rat's ass.

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Quote:

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If you come up with a solid argument to counter that, I will offer a full and utter retraction. Otherwise, I'm just gonna let the facts do the talking.

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Originally by: Jack Gilligan

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Originally by: Infinity Ziona

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Edited by: Infinity Ziona on 28/01/2011 14:20:04
Supported.

At least start with a damn self check of the client. Its not too hard for a program to check its own processes to detect injected code that shouldn't be there while the client is running.

Checking for a large variety of constantly evolving programs running on the users computer is a lot more difficult but the former should be in every MMO that has an economy at risk of RMT and macro / botting.

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They should be able to build into the client a block that only allows itself access to the server.

Also, considering that bot programs are advertised, why can't CCP acquire copies of them themselves and build simple detection into the client to make it exit the game if any of those programs are running.

Another option would be to have the client look for those programs on the PC when it launches, and if it detects them, delete them.

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Originally by: Henry Haphorn

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Quote:

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If you come up with a solid argument to counter that, I will offer a full and utter retraction. Otherwise, I'm just gonna let the facts do the talking.

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Even if CCP implemented the code in total secrecy, the macro programs will simply be updated to better get around the new change in the Eve client...

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Quote:

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(example: mining 12/7 instead of 23/7**) once someone has realized the change.

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Quote:

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As some of the knowledgeable people can tell you, macros can be for more intelligent than one can realize.

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Originally by: Infinity Ziona

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Interesting read with some mentions of EvE -> Linkage

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Originally by: Henry Haphorn

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@ Ranka - We'll just have to see. But I still firmly stand by my belief that a good year or two of constant ganking on suspected macros is the most effective means of containing the macro infestation. Changing codes will do little to combat the situation. And I also stand by my belief that CCP is NOT allowing macros to flurish (as I already explained why). If anything, I think it is us (the players) who allow it. Because even though we suspect some macros, how many people ACTUALLY try to gank them immediately after finding out? Not much I bet. And the only time large amounts of people go doing just that is Hulkageddon (which lasts for barely a month every year).

My proposal, Extend Hulkageddon and make it at least a 6-Month-Long event. And also, make the prizes worth the time, tears and hatemail.

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Originally by: Skex Relbore

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Here's your REALITY CHECK.

If botting is as prevalent as suggested you can bet you're last dime that CCP has a very low interest in dealing with.

It's pretty much a lose lose proposition for them. It's damn near impossible to tell the difference between a bot and someone playing semi-afk. It's very hard to prove short of devoting support resources to the problem which means that it costs them more money to hunt them down. Add that to the fact that if they do find a botter and ban them they've lost subscription revenue.

RMT gets nailed because that's competition for GTCs and frankly with the GTC system in place anyone who buys from an RMT source deserves to get banned for stupidity.

The problem is that there are so many activities in the game that are tedious, repetitive, and boring. Stuff at which robots excel. As long as these tedious activities exist botters will do their thing.

The only way to effectively combat these programs is to scan the systems local memory and the last company that tried that crap got head bit off. Many macro's actually run on VMware and isolate the client to the point where it can tell the client software any bs it wants. So you can't even reliably spot bots with a rootkit tool.

The people writing these bots are just as bright and talented as the programmers the game companies employ and there are probably damned sight more of them than are on CCP's payroll.

As Ephemeron pointed out, many of these programs play with just as much (if not more) sophistication than a live player. In fact in many ways they are better. They don't make mistakes the best ones can tie multiple bots together so a scout on trial account can see you coming from several systems away. They can hit Dscan every few seconds and react instantly to the first sign of trouble so even removing or delaying local would be of limited value in combating them.

So looking at the situation realistically it would cost CCP money in developer resources to combat them, in support personal to investigate the ones identified and sort through the false positives then they'd lose the revenue from any banned accounts.

Honestly I think the best thing CCP could do would be to simply level the playing field as much as possible. I'd suggested before turn mining into a passive activity using some sort of mining POS and mining drones, make PI passive once setup save for picking up your loot.

All threads like this and the 50 others like it really accomplish is to make people who hadn't thought about botting go "hey there's an idea".

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Originally by: James Tiberius Kirk

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While you two are correct, you are missing the other issue.

Bots hurt games. Its that simple. I have no illusion of a game that doesn't have one, but excessive botting have been proven time and again to hurt the game in long run.

As you said in your posts, CCP is perfectly happy with them in their game because they pay for their accounts (via plex). That means we'll see occasional PR stunt about the bots (aka unholy rage) until the next great bot whine thread marathon starts.

Current mechanics makes it extremely easy to bot, proper way to battle the bots long term would be changing mechanics to be more responsive. We all know CCP doesn't want to change anything with mechanics. They just like to put new stuff on the table without touching the old stuff. Problem with this approach is obvious. They have to make more frequent bot purges if they want to keep going in that direction. CCP also lacks any desire on this department.

Current bots are impossible to detect via data-mining. But they are still oblivious to the most basic method of bot check (o hai thar). At this point it is probably cheaper to assign 1 GM for active bot search instead of wasting developer time for creating complicated bot detection methods.

It is well known and documented. CCP only cares about something when it becomes bad press. That is the only thing they care about. Its like the whole company is being run by marketing department alone. If there's no whine threadnoughts, if there's no bad press, then the problem simply doesn't exists for CCP. CSM by definition, is a marketing stunt, which means they actually have the opportunity to actually talk with CCP about this issue.

Yes I realize last CSM talked about bots, yes I saw that devblog about macros. I also see how they specifically ignore the threads (to give devs some credit, they have to).

As for the matter dealing with bots yourself, well, If I can identify and deal with the bots myself, imagine what CCP can do about them if they put their mind into it

Finally, amount of bot threads will only increase until CCP does something about the problem. So, if you want bot threads to stop, click that support the topic tick instead of advocating for bots.

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Quote:

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Current bots are impossible to detect via data-mining. But they are still oblivious to the most basic method of bot check (o hai thar). At this point it is probably cheaper to assign 1 GM for active bot search instead of wasting developer time for creating complicated bot detection methods.

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Originally by: a newbie

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Quote:

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Current bots are impossible to detect via data-mining. But they are still oblivious to the most basic method of bot check (o hai thar). At this point it is probably cheaper to assign 1 GM for active bot search instead of wasting developer time for creating complicated bot detection methods.

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Part of the problem with this is a lot of pilots block chat requests, ignore them, or can at times be completely present but alt tabbed (I browse websites between asteroids or look to my other screen with my other client, and yes I MISS stuff on my other screen at times). If someone yanks me into a chat, if I am in combat, or as I said doing something else, It has been a good hour before I even LOOK at my ACTIVE chat tab. While not everyone may be as space case as I am at times (or I'm simply in a condition or altered state of mind) it is highly probably that such a purge like system would result in numerous bans and warnings to people who are actively playing the game as per the EULA.

I would still not hesitate to page on a guy that has 10 miners all the same damned name, flying the same ship, activating the same time, and the name alone is something that is a sjdghuy3a232dfs as the guy has probably been banned numerous times and just keeps making new characters.

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Originally by: Eden Love

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They need to find ideas to solve this problem.

Why not randomize some dropdown menus for example?

If they dont sovle this problem it will spread more and more and people in mmo land will realize that eve is a bot and macro game! Then CCP can make it a bot championship cause no casual player will subscribe!!!

I love eve but the botting problem lowers my motivation.

CCP! You will looose more Subs cause of this then you win cause of bot-subs.
Anyway the bot subs pay with plex...

WAKE UP CCP!!! Now or you will have a big marketing problem in future.

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Originally by: Skex Relbore

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Originally by: Eden Love

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They need to find ideas to solve this problem.

Why not randomize some dropdown menus for example?

If they dont sovle this problem it will spread more and more and people in mmo land will realize that eve is a bot and macro game! Then CCP can make it a bot championship cause no casual player will subscribe!!!

I love eve but the botting problem lowers my motivation.

CCP! You will looose more Subs cause of this then you win cause of bot-subs.
Anyway the bot subs pay with plex...

WAKE UP CCP!!! Now or you will have a big marketing problem in future.

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They do change the drop downs from time to time. Then again the latest bots don't even use the client anymore so I'm not sure how much good that does nowadays.

Start doing something like GM chat checks and see how fast the botters have their bots relaying chats to their Iphones. Hell as I understand it they already have the ability to send text notifications to the user so it's not like that's a stretch.

Hell a month after implementation you'd be more likely to ban a legitimate player by mistake than to get a bot.

I often miss chat requests even while actively playing because the pop up window ends up buried behind some other window in that screwy UI

Honestly, I wish all you idiots would stop with these posts all they do is raise the visibility of just how easy botting is in this game and more likely encourages more people to bot who'd never have considered it otherwise..

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Originally by: Bagehi

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Honestly, Incursion is another huge swipe at bots.

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Originally by: James Tiberius Kirk

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There's only one method of inquiry that they cannot ignore, and that is CSM.

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Originally by: Gavjack Bunk

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Edited by: Gavjack Bunk on 28/01/2011 11:48:34
Maybe the question should be "Are you prepared to accept a xx-yy% price hike on Eve to cover their perceived losses if they get rid of all the bots?"

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Originally by: Jarek Cyphus

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While botting currently impacts my gameplay in no way.

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Originally by: Pod Amarr

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Originally by: Gavjack Bunk

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Edited by: Gavjack Bunk on 28/01/2011 11:48:34
Maybe the question should be "Are you prepared to accept a xx-yy% price hike on Eve to cover their perceived losses if they get rid of all the bots?"

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Yes I would pay 25 % more no problem

Report bot on right click menu option would be a good start.

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Originally by: Vaerah Vahrokha

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The bots issue is part of a larger problem, called dumping.

In RL the company I worked for just failed, because of competition off 3rd world super-mega cheap modern slaves.

In EvE it's no different. You demand your income, others kill it. They use bots today. If you add captcha, they create captcha bots.
If the captchas improve enough, they just hire a modern 3rd world slave to answer captchas.

If CCP devises a smarter system, they force the 3rd world modern slave to also grind in place of the bot. He will still be happy to earn 30 dollars a month while managing 10-15 clients anyway.


This is why CCP does not fight hard and just imposes some face damage control. We and CCP cannot win, the moderns slavers do.

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Originally by: Skex Relbore

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The only real way to combat botting is to eliminate boring static repetitive tedious game play that is easily scripted or to level the playing field on activities for which this can't be done.

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Originally by: riverini

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First, We are Transfering EveNews to a secure underground lair (hai assange! 0/ ) with better servers and ****s, so please don't despair, this is actually a good thing.

Now on to the revelations!:

The following is a list of known bots soon to be featured in an in deep article this weekend at Eve News24.com

As you know we have been under DDoS all week (fun times), we are in the final leg of having it resolved.

Our article will be published here too to ensure non-gagging.

Our reporter petitioned each and every one of them, so far CCP seems to contempt with them making about 800 - 1bil a day.

Here is a nice teaser:

Quote:

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Judging from their kill counts on Dotlan, a pair of bots (Raven plus an Exequror for looting and salvaging) will kill between 1200 and 1500 ships in 24 hours. They appeared to be chaining battleships, which I estimated to have an average loot value of around 700,000 ISK apiece. That adds up to between 840 million and 1.05 billion ISK per day. This is solely from alloys and does not include salvage or faction/officer spawns. The Tengus may be more efficient. One particularly productive system (ETO-OT in The Spire) is home to four Ravens and two Badgers that generated 4200 kills in a 24 hour period, which is about 3 billion isk per day.

---

Talk about leveling the game! boy and I thought the off-grid safespot thingy was un-fair to other players in the views of CCP.

Anyways, here is the list, sorted by region
--------

Outer Passage:
Kitsunya
BiJim
Ko0kKi Mega Mujik Valnor Bane

Perrigen Falls
Balzat HunterNsk

More Spire Bots

Beant Jester EG Zentensuken
Billy Gatesey Dolce Gabana Jack Freestylo Lena Kanto Vinyl Chloryde Samwise thin

--------------------------------

The Spire
Dj Vasyliy, Toma Tilde, Xxx Homie
Bealune Rageham, Cisireb, Dolis Sharp, Ritestond
Dalaan Fearles, Faniquid, Manakelv Chillray, Tkacrope
DarkShadowXL, Golden Ravenn
Prudekek, ierbivoru89, Electric Fin
CybershadowX, DoomPilot1, Tegar Whitefury, Whisper Bringer
Arandetta, Atretori, Brich'Es, Ketoch, Swiftycobra

Kalevala
Artiom Cerkas, Bitea Tiomnii
Stas Pieha, kalyan1, Gena Darkovic, calacolcik1
Galustian, goretzz, Kristina Balaban, Malaya11
Banea Damso, bazazaa, Felip Flamenko, syllyaa
bazucca, Bella Be, Karolina Dimkovic, Medofia
Misa Arcaii, sharlotte joness

Malpais
Antuan Calisto, Sivlak Sidilak
Arab BamBam, Aram Danu, dominion940, FlameStrike1, Kirdik Maru, SciMass
FlameW1nd1, lies hrum, niiel para, ThunderGuy

Cobalt Edge
DoriGrinn, Mirgu Krea
Klem Almer, FelHariel
Masha Monstr, Taran Treg, KaginN, TrueWeaver
AdronnMari, Ardailas, Lulu Mega, Misha Vase4kin


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Ohh also, CCP, I am already informed via anonymous drop-box several times about you "ebil" plan against RMTers, you know the "Final Solution to the Isk Selling Problem", yet i would like to confirm it from the "MAN" himself, please convo me via mail if u will, I really think it's brilliant and you guys are doing amazing!.

anyways interested, it's published in k.com foreplay.

German Giggles
R

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Originally by: James Tiberius Kirk

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Originally by: riverini

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First, We are Transfering EveNews to a secure underground lair (hai assange! 0/ ) with better servers and ****s, so please don't despair, this is actually a good thing.

Now on to the revelations!:

The following is a list of known bots soon to be featured in an in deep article this weekend at Eve News24.com

As you know we have been under DDoS all week (fun times), we are in the final leg of having it resolved.

Our article will be published here too to ensure non-gagging.

Our reporter petitioned each and every one of them, so far CCP seems to contempt with them making about 800 - 1bil a day.

Here is a nice teaser:

Quote:

---

Judging from their kill counts on Dotlan, a pair of bots (Raven plus an Exequror for looting and salvaging) will kill between 1200 and 1500 ships in 24 hours. They appeared to be chaining battleships, which I estimated to have an average loot value of around 700,000 ISK apiece. That adds up to between 840 million and 1.05 billion ISK per day. This is solely from alloys and does not include salvage or faction/officer spawns. The Tengus may be more efficient. One particularly productive system (ETO-OT in The Spire) is home to four Ravens and two Badgers that generated 4200 kills in a 24 hour period, which is about 3 billion isk per day.

---

Talk about leveling the game! boy and I thought the off-grid safespot thingy was un-fair to other players in the views of CCP.

Anyways, here is the list, sorted by region
--------

Outer Passage:
Kitsunya
BiJim
Ko0kKi Mega Mujik Valnor Bane

Perrigen Falls
Balzat HunterNsk

More Spire Bots

Beant Jester EG Zentensuken
Billy Gatesey Dolce Gabana Jack Freestylo Lena Kanto Vinyl Chloryde Samwise thin

--------------------------------

The Spire
Dj Vasyliy, Toma Tilde, Xxx Homie
Bealune Rageham, Cisireb, Dolis Sharp, Ritestond
Dalaan Fearles, Faniquid, Manakelv Chillray, Tkacrope
DarkShadowXL, Golden Ravenn
Prudekek, ierbivoru89, Electric Fin
CybershadowX, DoomPilot1, Tegar Whitefury, Whisper Bringer
Arandetta, Atretori, Brich'Es, Ketoch, Swiftycobra

Kalevala
Artiom Cerkas, Bitea Tiomnii
Stas Pieha, kalyan1, Gena Darkovic, calacolcik1
Galustian, goretzz, Kristina Balaban, Malaya11
Banea Damso, bazazaa, Felip Flamenko, syllyaa
bazucca, Bella Be, Karolina Dimkovic, Medofia
Misa Arcaii, sharlotte joness

Malpais
Antuan Calisto, Sivlak Sidilak
Arab BamBam, Aram Danu, dominion940, FlameStrike1, Kirdik Maru, SciMass
FlameW1nd1, lies hrum, niiel para, ThunderGuy

Cobalt Edge
DoriGrinn, Mirgu Krea
Klem Almer, FelHariel
Masha Monstr, Taran Treg, KaginN, TrueWeaver
AdronnMari, Ardailas, Lulu Mega, Misha Vase4kin


---


Ohh also, CCP, I am already informed via anonymous drop-box several times about you "ebil" plan against RMTers, you know the "Final Solution to the Isk Selling Problem", yet i would like to confirm it from the "MAN" himself, please convo me via mail if u will, I really think it's brilliant and you guys are doing amazing!.

anyways interested, it's published in k.com foreplay.

German Giggles
R

---

Yeah, thats a list of botters. Yes, its that easy to point them out.

Edit: Thats about 50 billion ISK per day, 1.5 trillion ISK per month, not counting any drops. These are the bots that PLAYERS with limited resources could find out. I suspect trillions more are made by bots every month, whether for the RMT or personal use.

The list contains only a fraction of null space, there's tons of other null sec regions, not to mention high sec. With limited resources, we have no idea how many more there is.

Edit 2: Link

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Originally by: Aleena Doran

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Seems that to succeed in Eve you have to cheat. That's not what I had in mind when I subscribed to the game.

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Originally by: Eleonora Skye

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Support. There is also actually a lot of "Market" bots at Jita actually, easy to spot, very active and still not banned.

Sometimes you manage to f*** them, but in the end, they always win...

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Originally by: 4C 4F 5645

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People who say "bots can't be found" don't know what they're saying. The CCP client could very well detect popular bot clients in memory on log in and report them to the server.

The way to deal with bots from CCP's part is to:
- take a good look at the major popular bots existing today
- secretly release a client patch that detects those clients in memory (along with Incarna or whatever)
- do nothing for 3-6 months while collecting evidence of botting
- do a massive ban of accounts in one go (that works very well because it sends the botters into a panic)
- sue the company making the bots if they're selling them

Repeat as necessary. That's been proven to work well for other games.
You can't stop all botting. But you can do a lot better than they're doing now.

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Originally by: 4C 4F 5645

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- sue the company making the bots if they're selling them

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Originally by: 4C 4F 5645

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People who say "bots can't be found" don't know what they're saying. The CCP client could very well detect popular bot clients in memory on log in and report them to the server.

The way to deal with bots from CCP's part is to:
- take a good look at the major popular bots existing today
- secretly release a client patch that detects those clients in memory (along with Incarna or whatever)
- do nothing for 3-6 months while collecting evidence of botting
- do a massive ban of accounts in one go (that works very well because it sends the botters into a panic)
- sue the company making the bots if they're selling them

Repeat as necessary. That's been proven to work well for other games.
You can't stop all botting. But you can do a lot better than they're doing now.

---

Originally by: Jack Gilligan

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Originally by: Infinity Ziona

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Edited by: Infinity Ziona on 28/01/2011 14:20:04
Supported.

At least start with a damn self check of the client. Its not too hard for a program to check its own processes to detect injected code that shouldn't be there while the client is running.

Checking for a large variety of constantly evolving programs running on the users computer is a lot more difficult but the former should be in every MMO that has an economy at risk of RMT and macro / botting.

---

They should be able to build into the client a block that only allows itself access to the server.

Also, considering that bot programs are advertised, why can't CCP acquire copies of them themselves and build simple detection into the client to make it exit the game if any of those programs are running.

Another option would be to have the client look for those programs on the PC when it launches, and if it detects them, delete them.



You can't delete them, but you can report existence to user and refuse to run. Many games do this.

Support given

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Originally by: James Tiberius Kirk

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Everyone knows there are lots of bots. Most of us can spot miner macros on high sec pretty quickly, they are everywhere. They are so many of them in fact, it almost changes the focus of player events (Hulkageddon).

Most veterans also knows there are TONS of botters in null sec. Up to the point where it becomes common knowledge. Nicknames (AAA Botters, Legion of Botters), bad puns (Drone Regions, get it?) or mottos (What happens in Venal, stays in Venal) are all products of rampant botting.

CCP's stand, at least officially, is that botting is illegal and punishable by bannings. They say they are doing the best they can, yet we see more and more complaints about botting. If it is so easy for us to spot and prove that someone is botting/macroing, how hard could it be for CCP to assign 1 GM to hunt bots. Its not exactly a secret where they do this stuff .

There are lots of threads about botting and CCP is certainly is avoiding them. There's only one method of inquiry that they cannot ignore, and that is CSM.

Thumbs up if you think next CSM should bring this situation to the table and ask why is CCP openly allowing bots to flourish.

Note: As a person who's income is coming from market games or mission running, I have no direct quarrel with bots as one might assume. However, I am concerned about the current and future state of my favorite game.

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Originally by: Skex Relbore

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Originally by: Eden Love

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Honestly, I wish all you idiots would stop with these posts all they do is raise the visibility of just how easy botting is in this game and more likely encourages more people to bot who'd never have considered it otherwise..

---

security by obscurity is no security at all. so dont even bother with that argument.

Originally by: Ephemeron

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Quote:

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Are you seriously suggesting there are players out there who play 23/7 ratting in null sec, then warping off and cloaking up when someone enters the system?

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There are people who play 8 hours a day and leave EVE running overnight while AFK cloaked. I used to do that.
Most cases it only looks like the player is 23/7, when in reality it's probably 6 hours or less and AFK the rest

Quote:

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Are you really suggesting there are players out there with no corp history, barely 3 months old, and fly an industrial through low sec all day every day 23/7?

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I know a lot of people who use alts for carebearing - alliance members in fleet ops, who switch to other chars while they are waiting for something to happen.

Quote:

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Are you implying that all those players with zxbdqkl names who mine ice belts in high sec 23/7, with no corp history, barely 3 months old, and warp back and forth from station to belt repeatedly in their pod after they get ganked aren't bots?

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Some of those could be alts of real people

I'm not defending bots, and I'm not claiming there are no bots. Neither do I care for carebears and stupid people. I'm just pointing out a simple fact - it's not easy to distinguish between a botter and a mindless carebear. CCP cannot afford to make the mistake, even if there's only 5% chance the player is legit, they can't make a move. They gotta be 100% sure. And it's sure hard to get those last 5% of certainty.

I am for modifying the game to make it either to grief botters and carebears.
Removing local in 0.0 would be a good start.

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Originally by: Aessoroz

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Essentially bots are here to stay, CCP needs to however make it a lot more difficult for them to function, I guarantee you that if after one patch the UI keeps resetting to defaults for everyone after each launch of the client, that the mineral market will suddenly sky rocket in prices.

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Originally by: Jack Gilligan

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Another option would be to have the client look for those programs on the PC when it launches, and if it detects them, delete them.

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