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Its finally happend: ccp killed amarr/minm fw fun

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Cearain Imperial Outlaws 573	Posted - 2012.08.20 01:00:00 - [1] - Quote Vyktor Abyss wrote: RTSAvalanche wrote: Vyktor Abyss wrote: Not like I had respect for you anyway, but the theatrical forum foot stomping and waving arms round while bawling makes me respect you even less. Grow up, FW is better than it was before the latest iteration (but still needs work) and you're just a tantrum throwing child because you cant sit on Auga station all day playing low risk instapop docking games anymore. People like you make FW worse not better so please do leave and don't flatter yourself that your opinion of FW matters. There are many others I could name also falling into this category, but at least they're not starting crap threads everywhere unlike you. Cheers. Oh ofcause you are completely correct, I see the error of our ways. Let us all join minmatar & see who can be the riches, who cares about pvp anyway right!!!?? =D But I am curious... you mention it still needs work? Can you please be more percific? Yes, FW pvp has stopped. FW is over, just look at the killboard evidence to back this up. No kills at all with no fleet fights either. None, Nada, Zero, Diddly-Squat..... except for the 208 ships killed, 15b damage done and 20 ships lost according to the amarr militia killboard this week (not including alliance kills/losses). And no, I won't be percific because you never asked nicely and used the magic word. I've already said pre-Inferno most of the changes I'd like to see - go search my post history (or dont) if you really care. PS - The alt formerly known as Damar : I still have nothing but pity for you as a human being. Your bitterness still clouds your view and judgement. You also belong in the FW 'would be better off without' category but I think you knew that. Sorry! Why do you keep posting about your personal views of other forum posters? Do you think people care? Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
Cearain Imperial Outlaws 573	Posted - 2012.08.20 01:12:00 - [2] - Quote As far as the op the only thing that is worse is the station lockouts. And yeah it is a stupid rule. Other than that plexing has always been primarilly a pve game, that really hasn't changed. The big concern from the new crowd seems to be that the pvers don't have guns. It doesn't really matter if they fit guns to their pve ship or not. They are still gonna warp out they always did in the past. The tier system added some strategies and fairly interesting dynamics that I don't think the playerbase has entirely sorted out yet. And yes they increased the payouts for faction by 2-4xs. So it has attracted more people. More people in the same space equals more explosions. I'm not complaining. They will nerf fw in winter or in the summer though. Minmatar will likely get all the systems. But we all know how they did it. The medal will not really be something to be proud of. The fight will continue on. Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
Cearain Imperial Outlaws 573	Posted - 2012.08.20 01:20:00 - [3] - Quote Dan Carter Murray wrote: X Gallentius wrote: troll The moment you allowed WBR to be your lead corp was the moment you started to failcascade. It took the Caldari two years to recover from WBR. It might take you guys two years as well. But at least you can start the rebuiding process now. /troll wait just one second here...WBR was the lead corp?!?!?! XG sometimes like to appear like he knows about the amarr minmatar front. But then he has to open his mouth. Nothing agains WBR. They are almost certainly the reason we didn't lose all the systems at the very begining. Moreover they are the only amarr corp that could more or less singlhandedly hold a system like kamela due to their sheer power. But they really kept to themselves and never really even attempted to lead the militia. They also may have been the amarr corp that plexed the most ... for the minmatar. Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
Cearain Imperial Outlaws 573	Posted - 2012.08.20 01:28:00 - [4] - Quote X Gallentius wrote: Muad 'dib wrote: X Gallentius wrote: Muad 'dib wrote: its about the inferno changes eradicating fun pvp from low sec by gaying it up with sov lockouts and STUPID isk ratios for time spent on funking buttans! I give you FW stats: Top corp for final blows in a week used to be 70-80. Now my corp is at 142 final blows for the week and is only No. 8. FUN PVP HAS INCREASED SIGNIFICANTLY. At least the type of pvp I like to do has increased. "Station games and killing noobs on station with fast locking Macherials" type of pvp has decreased by over an order of magnitude. how long will that last? my corp is top for pvp kills for years, and now more than ever, but guess what, fighting mwd frigs with no guns sucks. so have fun while it lasts you short sighted fool. It's lasted for almost four months. Will continue into the next expansion. I guess if you want to be a cheerleader you can spin almost three months as "almost 4 months" But I am hoping the pvp stays higher than it was before. CCP can still improve allot though. Plenty of nights with good pvp few and far between. Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
Cearain Imperial Outlaws 573	Posted - 2012.08.20 03:15:00 - [5] - Quote Hrett wrote: So - I have never been to the Minnie/Amarr front. Is it more big fleets there? What is the main difference? I just have no idea how you guys have less pvp. It has exploded on our side. We were having more pvp than the caldari and gallente according to the fw statistics. At least for a while. However, due to the station lockouts the fighting was primarily all about who could outblob the other 1 jump from kourmonen. The other systems are pretty dead. QCats came to feed on the null sec alliance in metro. That was a smart move but it was really a temporary thing that happned. We will see what happens as more amarr leave. I'm pretty sure my corp is sticking around and will continue to fight. Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
Cearain Imperial Outlaws 573	Posted - 2012.08.20 03:25:00 - [6] - Quote chatgris wrote: Muad 'dib wrote: not to mention the land grab bumrush before inferno. You guys had more systems then the minnies just a week ago - minmatar took it all back with post inferno mechanics.. After having to move all my stuff out of the faction war zone I will always be against moving stuff back into the war zone just to be saddled with defensive plexing to keep our stuff there. The actual plexing mechanics didn't really change its still best done by avoiding pvp. chatgris wrote: Otherwise, in general - I'm not a fan of station lockouts but it's been heaven over here for me: First a null sec alliance joined the amarr, and now pretty much all of amarr fw is coming caldari. There are people to shoot *everywhere. I agree that I have had an easier time getting fights after inferno. But I wouldn't say that is true everywhere. Have you been in metro after nulli left? Actually amarr gets some wartargets with electus matari up there. (EU tz) But I am not sure who the minmatar up there are fighting regularly - probably pirates. Anyway I am hoping minmatar will stick around and I will have wartargets. Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
Cearain Imperial Outlaws 573	Posted - 2012.08.20 03:50:00 - [7] - Quote Vordak Kallager wrote: 1) It's really obnoxious when people say "GG gunless plexing alts, you win". Ninlarra might have the clap, but he had a good point. It was the fighting alliances of MinMil (UK, EM, FeO, Defiant, LNA) that won the plexing war. We were the people taking frontline systems, defensive plexing, busting bunkers and "fighting the sov fight". The gunless plexing alts made an impact, sure, but they were only doing what they were doing due to the actual Min's hard work. You can call us worthless PvErs, but the fact is we wont the sov war due to our own tenacity, foresight and dedication. . Are you denying that this war was "won" by t1 frigate farmers? I wonder if ccp would publish some statistics on how many plexes were run in t1 frigates. What percent of plexes do you think it would be? What about just frigates including assault frigates? Some farmers have more skilled alts after all. What percent of majors do you think were run in battlecruisers? I mean if you are expecting a fight in a plex that allows battlecruisers and hacs you would likely want to be in a bc instead of a faction frigate right? I'm thinking about 70% of plexes were run in frigates probably 70% of those frigates were t1 frigates. Vordak Kallager wrote: 2) The Amarr, especially towards the end, had the capability to turn the warzone around. You had massive number advantages in the USTZ in which you could have made progress in the sov war. It would have been hard, maybe slow, but it was certainly possible.. . I agree we could have hit tier 5. But a certain group in the amarr militia that happens to have allot of cap ships decided they wanted out before then. I do think nulli left due to pvp reasons. And congratulated the minmatar on that. But anyway you act like the war is over. Even if you gain all the systems and some of the new guys move out that doesn't mean the war is over. Vordak Kallager wrote: 3) You guys just didn't want to win. W-BR has made that clear, a lot of Amarr groups have made that clear. You were happy to lose because you didn't want to put in the work to win the sov war. And you know what, that's fine. You just have to recognize that it was your own unwillingness to invest in the new system that resulted in such a lopsided warzone and ultimately our victory.. I did want to win. I got an alt and started running plexes like crazy. But nulli pulled the plug. Vordak Kallager wrote: Does the Farmville aspect of FW suck? Yes. Who the ** doesn't complain about that? No one likes gunless merlin farmers from nullsec profiting off our hard work. There are some easy fixes CCP can implement that would probably fix this, and I hope they are planning to do so in the upcoming patch. Has Inferno been better or worse for FW? Inferno is without a doubt a step in the right direction and arguably one of the best things to happen to FW in years. I agree with this. Vordak Kallager wrote:** People complaining about this fictional "no PVP, only farm" are a) delusional and b) clearly can't remember the months prior to Inferno where there was maybe 1 or 2 actual skirmishes a WEEK. Now there are countless skirmishes in each timezone EVERY DAY. Total kill counts for FW have skyrocketed, and even if you factor that some of those are gunless farming alts, you're still seeing an increase in PvP by an absolutely staggering amount. tl;dr - Amarr cry a lot, FW needs fixing and no one disagrees, Inferno has been the best thing for FW since sliced bread. Until inferno no changes have happened to fw since sliced bread. So we can also say inferno was the worst expansion since sliced bread. But again I am not against all the changes. Mainly just the station lockouts. The problem is really what they left broken. Plexing being a pve activity is the big problem. It always has been a big problem. Yes there has been an increase in pvp. They basically made it about 4xs as profitable to be in fw. This lead to more people and more activity. Put more people in the same space you will get more explosions. However the increase in pvp is not because any of the changes actually promote pvp. Its just that there is allot more isk to be made and therefore allot more involvement. Anyway I agree with you ccp did allot of good things. They shouldn't change what they have already improved but they still need to work on other areas. Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
Cearain Imperial Outlaws 573	Posted - 2012.08.20 03:52:00 - [8] - Quote X Gallentius wrote: Cearain wrote: I guess if you want to be a cheerleader you can spin almost three months as "almost 4 months" But I am hoping the pvp stays higher than it was before. CCP can still improve allot though. Plenty of nights with good pvp few and far between. So you agree with me and not the Amarr guy. Fights are up, and will be for a while. I agree fights are up from before inferno. No doubt. I think they will stay up for me at least until the minmatar collect thier medal. After that I really don't know. Do you think the fights will remain up in the minmatar amarr front? Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
Cearain Imperial Outlaws 573	Posted - 2012.08.20 03:56:00 - [9] - Quote Large Collidable Object wrote: Muad 'dib wrote: how long will that last? my corp is top for pvp kills for years, and now more than ever, but guess what, fighting mwd frigs with no guns sucks. Whilst I sympathise with your cause, I still wonder what happened to Amarr milita. If your corp is the top killing corp for years, I wonder why the top non-NPC corp according to Amarr miltia KB stats would still be Absinthe Brothers (Consortium), who are dead for 1-2 years (Yeah - according to the list, ARETR would come out on top, but absinthe are on that list twice and just had to reform at some point for whatever reason, so their kills need to be added up). When I pulled my alt out about 2-3 years ago, minmatar was getting faceraped on a daily basis despite having the bigger numbers, so WTF happned? I really loved that killboard but it is now not really used. Plexes are great for getting pvp. But you still most effectively plex by avoiding pvp. Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
Cearain Imperial Outlaws 574	Posted - 2012.08.20 13:35:00 - [10] - Quote chatgris wrote: Cearain wrote: I agree that I have had an easier time getting fights after inferno. But I wouldn't say that is true everywhere. Have you been in metro after nulli left? Actually amarr gets some wartargets with electus matari up there. (EU tz) But I am not sure who the minmatar up there are fighting regularly - probably pirates. Anyway I am hoping minmatar will stick around and I will have wartargets. Well, did you get more fight sup there pre inferno? I think that there's a lot to be fixed in fw - balancing the rats for one. Plexing mechanics. Maybe CCP could even make WZ control levels go from tier 3 to tier 5 so the losing faction has more resources to keep fighting. But, unlike the OP, I think inferno has been a net positive for FW, not a net negative. I think I got a boost from the crucible patch that made it so plexes don't just spawn at downtime. I got a considerably larger boost from inferno due to more people in faction war. So I agree I give inferno a net positive so far. I think it will remain decent while minmatar stick around to collect a medal. After that happens I don't know. Do you think we will have as much pvp on the amarr minmatar front? Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
Cearain Imperial Outlaws 574	Posted - 2012.08.20 14:06:00 - [11] - Quote David Devant wrote: I appreciate that you people feel pissed off at the pve gunless yada yada. But you are sadly mistaken if you think that your core systems are being taken by null bear alts. You are accountable for your losses. Rather than whine about it I suggest you come up with a plan. The truth is you now live in a target rich environment, adapt and you will profit. The wheel will turn and shortly after we get our medals there will be an exodus of pvpers from the Minnie front because there's nothing to shoot. The 'fun economy' is this game far more important than the isk economy. Tthere are no core systems according to the tier system. All systems count the same according to the dev blog. But beyond that it wasn't fighting for kamela kourmonen or huola that made the amarr say f this. It was seeing the all the backwater systems get so heavilly contested so fast the very next day. And what do we see when we go back there? Armadas of t1 figates running majors. What is the point of fighting for core systems, whatever you think that means, when the war is going to be won by the alt army? I will ask you the same thing I asked vordak. What percent of plexes do you think were capped by t1 frigates? I mean we can keep using relative terms all we want. I can say "too much" of it is farm alts. You can say things like "the real war was won with pvp." But what are the actual numbers? Post inferno what sort of ships capped what sort of plexes for each faction. How many majors did amarr capture using a single frigate? How many majors did minmatar capture using this? Etc. I would Love to see a break down of this. Because I think it will show that over seventy percent of plexes minmatar captured were in frigates. But before we get these actual numbers what do you think a legitimate spread would be? I think a legitimate spread would be that minors are run by frigates and destroyers and account for at least 1/3 of the total plexes. Mediums would be run by cruisers fifty percent of the time and by afs about thirty percent and the rest can be frigate destroyers. Mediums should account for about 1/3 of plexes run. Majors Run by BSes bcs or hacs about fifty percent of the time thirty percent by cruisers and the rest smaller ships the 2 types of majors will account for about the remaining 1/3 of pelxes. I also think there should be somone scrammed or blown up in at least every other plex run if we want to call this a pvp mechanic. That is what I think is a legitimate win. Instead I think we will find that the minmatar ran many more majors in frigates than amarr did. I think we will find that no one fought in eighty percent of the plexes run. Most plexing involves hiding from the enemy and orbiting the button. I think we will find that Minmatar ran at least seventy percent of their plexes in frigates and destroyers. Winning at this is not something to be proud of unless you are proud of your carebearing. Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
Cearain Imperial Outlaws 574	Posted - 2012.08.20 14:21:00 - [12] - Quote roigon wrote: joins FW [BADLUCK BRIAN] Gets locked out of home system /o\ Just had my first day in FW, and what a day it was. Very different from what I'm used to in nullsec. We like our environments target rich and so far FW certainly delivered in that respect. But we are new to this, the meta, the mechanics, etc.. So please bear with me, while we all collectively get used to faction war. As for working with other amarr faction corps/alliances. I'm not leadership but as far as I know that's certainly something we are interested in, but this was like literally our first day :P Give it some time. Great to have you in faction war. I think you will find it to be the best venue for small scale pvp in eve. Now is one of the times where the amarr militia is going through some changes. I think we will be sticking around. Feel free to contact a diplo of my corp to get the scoop. I'm looking forward to the upcoming months. Here is a good guide: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=124940&find=unread Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
Cearain Imperial Outlaws 575	Posted - 2012.08.20 15:14:00 - [13] - Quote Crimper wrote: So ive read through this thread and have heard whining, trolling, anger, frustration and disappointment but nothing that reembles a solution. I spoke recently with Some friends that had issue with a decision that was made and I'll say here what I said to them. If you have a problem with something, then you must have an idea for a solution so formulate that into a suggestion supported by logic. You complain that CCP is to blame, that nullsec influence is too great and that an RPing CSM has had too much impact in the current state of FW. Well then you need to present a better solution; a better plan. A few ideas were presented at fanfest by us that perhaps a dev would be willing to comment on; I know he wrote them down. I know we (Lost Obsession) having left FW now are happily done with button spinning, but we still live in Kamela and will be around for the fighting, so I hope to see you all on the battlefield. See my signature. People who want the occupancy war to be pvp have been asking for it since fw came out. Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
Cearain Imperial Outlaws 575	Posted - 2012.08.20 15:34:00 - [14] - Quote Vordak Kallager wrote: Lord BryanII wrote: If Minimatar did not have their geography advantage and did not get that super boost that they did from the goons, would it be fair to say that the Amarr/Minimatar war would be much closer than it is now? If the answer is yes, then would we still be talking about farmers as much as we are now? I don't think farmers are the issue tbh The Geography is an issue, but it is not insurmountable. As was clearly demonstrated, Nulli moved into Metro and quickly conquered the vast majority of it. It just takes some dedication to make the move and commit. There aren't a lot of Amarr groups who are interested in doing that. Goons did nothing except take advantage of existing circumstances in order to make a lot of money and subsequently get it confiscated by CCP. Geography is not really an issue. The goon boost was not the issue. The main problem is that it is a pve/farm mechanic. Where you win by hiding from the enemy while you do plexes. This is 90% of the problem. Secondary problems that take up the other 10% of the problem were: 1) The imbalance in rats especially before the ewar removal. Minmatar was always the race with the easiest rats for missions and plexes. This helped them get more players and helped the plex directly. amarr was fw on hard mode Minmatar was easy mode. Don't believe just trying each sides missions (the main source of fw income before inferno) solo in a stealth bomber. They had a huge lead going into inferno. This was in part due to the extreme rat imbalance. Do you want to make easy isk doing missions or do you want it to be hard? If you wanted it easy then you joined minmatar and many people did. They would either leave amarr for minmatar or go over to caldari. Amarr has always been the the miltiia with the fewest numbers and its no mystery why. 2) It was also just more or less arbitrary luck. There were probably about 10 players total who were really plexing for the year before inferno was announced because it was meant nothing. A single minmatar player had more vp than any minmatar corp or alliance going into inferno. No one really cared about it. The product of a system no one cares about is random. 3) In combination with the above Amarr took the biggest hit it ever took, due to the station lock outs. Basically vets had to spend all of our time leading up to inferno moving our stuff out of the warzone. Inferno brought on a change that meant it took 5xs as much plexing to flip a system. So this lead up time was important. Most of the fw vets like myself had billions in assets thoughout the metro and we had to spend what ever eve time we had moving it. In combination with 1 and 2 the lockouts was the biggest difficulty the amarr ever had to deal with. Once everyone saw Minmatar could hit tier 5 well everyone started getting alts to run the plexes. The sheer volume of alts is not something amarr can touch. Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
Cearain Imperial Outlaws 575	Posted - 2012.08.20 16:57:00 - [15] - Quote Kuehnelt wrote: Cearain wrote: The main problem is that it is a pve/farm mechanic. Where you win by hiding from the enemy while you do plexes. This is 90% of the problem. It is a pve/farm mechanic for everyone - for all four militias. The rest of your post amounts to "here are some historical reasons that things turned out this way for the Amarr", with the suggestion being that a bad start + simple momentum is why things are still bad. So CCP looks at this and sees, OK, this mechanic seems to be working fine for 3/4 militias, and then this last militia is claiming that it doesn't work in the same breath as they complain about a lot of historical baggage. The obvious solution to this problem: do nothing. Maybe add some of those UI improvements they talked about in the CSM minutes. To let some time pass by is a sufficient response to the effects of "arbitrary luck at the time of the patch" and "imbalance before EWAR removal" on the warzone. And if the only problem with station lockout is that it had leading-up-to-Inferno affects, there's certainly no reason to change it now. Where are the present day downsides of station-lockout? The downsides of station lockouts is that it reduces the amount of pvp we could get if we could stay in the warzone and keep fighting instead of having to jump 6 jumps to repair armor damage. Its stupid for several other reasons as well including forcing smart corps to base outside the war zone or be saddled with defensive plexing. But as for the rest, I am just trying to post what I think the problems are. And they are what they are. I think the amarr could hit tier 5. We were on our way there and if nulli would have just let us finish the work we would have done it. I'm fine with the tier system. People who think that is the problem are simply mistaken. Kuehnelt wrote: So I'd rather CCP look at this summary: Pinky Feldman wrote: I think the biggest issue is the tiering of the rewards and how they scale. When theres a wave of immersion killing realization across your militia that you would be stupid not to farm Tier 5 while you can, versus going out of your way to push tier 2-3 at best on your own side, its hard for your side to keep taking FW seriously. It definitely kills a lot of the PVP immersion and makes things feel very RvB-esque. Speak of a "wave of immersion killing realization across your militia" due to the warzone control mechanic, and you suggest that the mechanic should be reexamined - while also answering those who speak of the lack of Amarrian enthusiasm as if that were the horse rather than the cart. The problem is that you get the tiers by pve. That is what kills the "pvp immersion." Pvp really has nothing to do with winning the occupancy war. It never has. Even before infernos tiers occupancy was a pve game. Tiers didn't cause this problem. It existed before tiers. Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
Cearain Imperial Outlaws 575	Posted - 2012.08.20 17:06:00 - [16] - Quote Ezra Tair wrote: The fleet that performed the heavy lifting of offensive plexing Kour and Kam varied between 20 and 55 for the 12+ hours each day it was going. At this time we could have been forced out, or combated at any time. But for almost the entirety of the weekend we were unopposed, and were able to create a large time zone coverage of the 'front'. I assure you we were not gunless AFK plexing alts that 'took' your stations. What difference does holding these 2 or 3 systems make? The entire war front of the 67 other systems was going down in flames like dry grass due to farming alts. It's silly to defend this mechanic where alts hide in systems and run plex timers when no wartargets are around. Ezra Tair wrote: I understand some of you don't like orbiting buttons. I don't blame you, its not particularity satisfying. But I think some/many of the Amarrian side forgot one simple thing. For a long time, even before their was a LP reward for doing so, many minmatar plexed and desired to 'capture' systems. If you consider 10 players "many" ok. One player had more vp than any of your minmatar corporations. Plexing was always done most efficiently with armies of alts that avoided pvp. This has been why fw is broken since the beginning and its still why its broken. CCP missed the main problem completely with inferno. "It took less than a week to achieve the maximum faction warfare rank (Divine Commodore), GÇª.111 faction warfare complexes were captured GÇª I did not kill anyone in the process..GÇ¥ Ankhesentapemkah Posted - 2008.06.18 02:29:00 Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
Cearain Imperial Outlaws 575	Posted - 2012.08.20 18:05:00 - [17] - Quote Ezra Tair wrote: Cearain wrote: If you consider 10 players "many" ok. One player had more vp than any of your minmatar corporations. Plexing was always done most efficiently with armies of alts that avoided pvp. This has been why fw is broken since the beginning and its still why its broken. CCP missed the main problem completely with inferno. "It took less than a week to achieve the maximum faction warfare rank (Divine Commodore), GÇª.111 faction warfare complexes were captured GÇª I did not kill anyone in the process..GÇ¥ Ankhesentapemkah Posted - 2008.06.18 02:29:00 If 1/3 to 1/2 of the sides ships are in those systems, and they are key system to get a quick reship from. They count for alot eh? I can't help the 'alts' of either side. I think its just a matter of time before people realize that basing in fw systems just means you are saddled with the obligation to defensive plex. Its just not smart from a purely plexing perspective. Ezra Tair wrote: But you yourself added to the problem by doing the same. Both have always been constrained by the same mechanic, its silly to say that one side or the other has an advantage. . If we always had the same npcs in missions and in plexes then I would agree there was no mechanics advantage. But there was a large disparaty in the rats. How much of a factor this was is hard to say. I can say I personally know people who admitted leaving the amarr for minmatar and caldari due to this reason. That doesn't even speak of the people who just joined the easier side to begin with. Nor does it address the actual fact that your side could always cap majors in a rifter when most of fw history we needed a pve bc or even a bs. Ezra Tair wrote: ... If 10 was all it took, where were your 10? Are you implying Saswaong won it for us all? I'll let him know that. Im sure he enjoyed all the rewards from RP'ing Minmatar elements that paid him to do so? . No one contributed more. No fc, no elite pvper even came close. The war zone would have looked quite a bit different if he never played eve. At least its a good question as to what it would like if he never played eve - let alone if he would have joined amarr. As for me I would do, and still do, plexes primarilly for the pvp. Plexes are a good way to get fights. But the actual plexing war is most efficiently waged by avoiding fights. Sounds like a contradiction, perhaps, but its true. Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
Cearain Imperial Outlaws 575	Posted - 2012.08.20 18:05:00 - [18] - Quote Ezra Tair wrote: Where was CVA or any applicable corp for you guys? I've taken FAR more than 111 plexes in the 2 or so years I've been in FW, and I only recently reached the top rank due to a corp mission plexing run for our new guys standings. You know as well as I do that their is a diminishing return on plexing after awhile.. I think it depends on how many are in the plex with you. But if she ran more plexes without ever killing anyone in pvp to get that top rank its even worse. Ezra Tair wrote: BTW, I have a great deal of respect for you. You popped my very first rapier in a rupture in a plex, and I've been scared off using them forever xD. I have respect for you, your corp and generally minmatar as well. Plexing issues aside I think we get more good fights than anywhere else in eve. Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
Cearain Imperial Outlaws 576	Posted - 2012.08.21 15:11:00 - [19] - Quote Bad Messenger wrote: Christine Peeveepeeski wrote: Bad Messenger wrote: Christine Peeveepeeski wrote: On a side note, whoever said TMFED don't undock and if we do we stay pos'd go ** yourselves. I do :P I don't have time in EVE to about for 10-25minutes orbiting buttons, or talking while docked (although sometimes while working at home I use EVE as a chat client). When playing EVE I head off and find stuff to shoot. If i stick round kam/kourm etc 1 of two things happens. i get blobbed or I attack people that don't know who we are/have the balls to fight us and them in the ass. Yes we use boosters in the major systems.. as do minmatar so go yourselves. Yes we have POS's in major warfare systems in FW because we can't dock. Yes we pick our fights carefull because we know who's going to blob and dieing means wasting time traveling halfway across a warzone just to reship. Yes we kite 90% of the time because we fight in systems where we are 4 or 5 of system full of 30 minmatar. Brawling means Dead and i am gutted because i love brawling :( We do our fair share of gay *... like smart bombing pods or sniping at stations but we don't kid ourselves. It's not legit space honourable PVP and we know that. It IS funny though if your bored (although I've only done suicide ganking as my funny PVP thing of choice). TMFED are the best pvpers I have flown with, I've learnt more about small gang ops in TMFED from RTS, maz3r and the rest of the crew than I ever did anywhere else. There are also few corps that love amarr AND all of Faction warfare. So STFU :P we are terrible though btw........... p.s. Gump has a specific comb for his beard Sad to hear that you waste your time and resources for irrelevant thingies. Going to elaborate or was that just a post to accenuate your name? Edit actually I just did something there I'd rather not do so don't answer, it's fine. I'm being drawn into forum posting because I'm unhappy at all the shitposting and really, no matter how much I can answer all the dumb assery all i actually end up becoming is a shitposter like everyone else. Carry on :P I do not really know what you are trying to achieve. Are you trying to play FW or just get some PVP? If you try to play FW sov warfare you are doing wrong. Also it seems that you do not get PVP either. So can you even tell what you are trying to do? It would be nice if this were not an either or question. Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
Cearain Imperial Outlaws 576	Posted - 2012.08.21 18:04:00 - [20] - Quote Machiavelli's Nemesis wrote: Actually, you know what the worst element of the new system is? Once we flip the last system we won't have any offensive plexes to farm LP from. This is horribly broken and needs fixing ASAP. It's be nice to know that once we flip the last system our defensive efforts will be rewarded... I take it you are kidding, but some of those in your minmafarm-house presented this as a real concern. You no longer get paid for farming after your pve ships have managed to flip all the systems. Sadly you can milk the cow dry. Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
Cearain Imperial Outlaws 589	Posted - 2012.08.23 20:31:00 - [21] - Quote Bezerk'ah Vulkan wrote: Well aside from ALL the changes that must be done in FW to fix it...and there is plenty and lot of ideas out there... ...Amarr failure is on their own hands! Yeah the matars took great advantage by taking almost all system before patch ( smart move ) but also did gallente, and we lost them all, and retake them, and lost them again...and so on. You guys gave up...nulli came, did the work for their own interest, failed to reach tier5, but they did take a lot of systems. As soon as they left, the matars started to roll over the entire warzone again. I know it's hard to fight for warzone control when you see your own militia using alts to plex for the opposite site, or simply having big amarr corps defecting to caldari ( cof cof...this isn't the 7th time i say this..cof cof...they left to find good fights...cof cof...but they went live in a backwater system...cof cof...where no one goes...cof cof ) So yeah, pvp isn't dead at least around here...join the "amarr refugee camp" in Ostingele, you will have to do your own bed there, cause you wont have slaves...here the slaves are free to plex...i mean to do whatever they want to! Amarr needs can do people like you. I know standings might be a problem because you are yet another minmatar who wants to give your misinformed opinion on the problems amarr face. But maybe you can get some of your alts orbitting buttons in metro for us! You know don't just identify problems - like the amarr gave up. Be part of the solution. Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
Cearain Imperial Outlaws 595	Posted - 2012.09.01 03:55:00 - [22] - Quote Zarnak Wulf wrote: I would absolutely hate a reset. It would be a slap in the face. Let's examine some of the content that's been generated since Inferno: Amarr killed a Minmatar Carrier pilot who undocked in Kourm before realizing his militia had lost the system. It was a juicy kill and great drama. Susan Black and Poetic Stan both crowed about how Minmatar were going to get a medal for conquering all the systems. A group of diehard Aussie pilots in Sahtogas pretty much said, "**** you, you shall not pass." Absolutely amazing. Agony Empire lost all of their belongings within hours of joining FW. They dug deep and reqconquered Kamela within a week. Cue Eye of the Tiger music. On the other side of the coin, Minmatar militia absolutely humiliated a nullsec alliance that wanted some quick coin. I think all of us smiled a little. I want to be in the final push to take Huola. I want to be there when the tide turns. (I was there.. facepalm) What is best in life? To crush your enemies, see them driven before you, and hear the lamentation of Ninlarra! Winter promises to bring 90% of what we want. The LP isk fountain is being reigned in. You have to kill all the NPC's in a plex for the counter to move. You can survive even on Tier One. Plexes will be about PvP more then PvE. If you think missions will still be a problem - go post in the F&I thread as I did that you think so. That's the place to put it. While I agree the changes will allow us to pvp in plexes they will still best be done in a pve ship while avoiding pvp. Amarr had to kill all the rats in larger ships for a long time. And for that long time it was always most efficient in a pve ship. CCP passing on the notifications and timer countdown were the 2 most necessary changes - doesn't look like they will happen. I think allot of the things you list will not be happening now that we get lp for defensive plexing. I don't think agony could have taken back kamela if there was lp for defensive plexing. I don't think we would have been able to take kourm either. I don't think amarr would have 50% of the systems 50% contested if we had lp for defensive plexing. I don't think susan would have been eating crow if there was lp for defensive plexing. (the minmafarm would be farming all our vulnerable systems right now and holding them all with farming alts so they could focus on sahtogas.) If we are having trouble taking huola and turning the tide when there is no lp for defensive plexing you can forget about it when ccp changes that up. Pretty much all the good things about the inferno tier system is changing. Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
Cearain Imperial Outlaws 597	Posted - 2012.09.01 10:53:00 - [23] - Quote Zarnak Wulf wrote: Cearain wrote: Zarnak Wulf wrote: I would absolutely hate a reset. It would be a slap in the face. Let's examine some of the content that's been generated since Inferno: Amarr killed a Minmatar Carrier pilot who undocked in Kourm before realizing his militia had lost the system. It was a juicy kill and great drama. Susan Black and Poetic Stan both crowed about how Minmatar were going to get a medal for conquering all the systems. A group of diehard Aussie pilots in Sahtogas pretty much said, "**** you, you shall not pass." Absolutely amazing. Agony Empire lost all of their belongings within hours of joining FW. They dug deep and reqconquered Kamela within a week. Cue Eye of the Tiger music. On the other side of the coin, Minmatar militia absolutely humiliated a nullsec alliance that wanted some quick coin. I think all of us smiled a little. I want to be in the final push to take Huola. I want to be there when the tide turns. (I was there.. facepalm) What is best in life? To crush your enemies, see them driven before you, and hear the lamentation of Ninlarra! Winter promises to bring 90% of what we want. The LP isk fountain is being reigned in. You have to kill all the NPC's in a plex for the counter to move. You can survive even on Tier One. Plexes will be about PvP more then PvE. If you think missions will still be a problem - go post in the F&I thread as I did that you think so. That's the place to put it. While I agree the changes will allow us to pvp in plexes they will still best be done in a pve ship while avoiding pvp. Amarr had to kill all the rats in larger ships for a long time. And for that long time it was always most efficient in a pve ship. CCP passing on the notifications and timer countdown were the 2 most necessary changes - doesn't look like they will happen. I think allot of the things you list will not be happening now that we get lp for defensive plexing. I don't think agony could have taken back kamela if there was lp for defensive plexing. I don't think we would have been able to take kourm either. I don't think amarr would have 50% of the systems 50% contested if we had lp for defensive plexing. I don't think susan would have been eating crow if there was lp for defensive plexing. (the minmafarm would be farming all our vulnerable systems right now and holding them all with farming alts so they could focus on sahtogas.) If we are having trouble taking huola and turning the tide when there is no lp for defensive plexing you can forget about it when ccp changes that up. Pretty much all the good things about the inferno tier system is changing. Crunch the numbers. The first system the Minmatar upgrade will cost 300k LP. The last system will cost 1.2 million LP. The current war zone has the vast majority of Minmatar staging out of Arzad, Huola, Kourm, and Dal. They don't care if Metropolis gets plexed because they'll just spike it. Now it will cost them in both LP they are earning as well as upgrades which will now be very expensive. A large number will have to peel off from the front. Either people will use the upgrades or to hit the higher tiers or they won't. If the upgrades are too costly to hit the higher tiers then you basically have a situation where again no one cares about plexing, and we are pre inferno. But lets say so they will just stay one or 2 tiers above us. So they will only get about 2xs as much lp. Why would someone join the side that offers about half the isk? They are adding lp for defensive plexing. This rule was the only thing that balanced things for the side that was currently losing. What are they doing to replace that balancing mechanism? Currently amarr even though we are decimated numerically is still moving toward a t5 cash out. Now the system is its best to jump on the side with the highest tiers after they achieve that goal. Because only then do they start to get benefit from it. The current system gives no benefit to people who jump late on the band wagon to the winning side. The proposed system does in droves. Pile on the winning side and make 2xs the lp. After a bit of shake out there will only be 2 militias. Hopefully they will be wartargets with eachother. But that is not even clear. Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
Cearain Imperial Outlaws 598	Posted - 2012.09.01 12:43:00 - [24] - Quote Reset is not the answer. That just changes who gets a head start but doesn't correct the problem that defensive lp brings. That problem is that once the dust settles everyone will join the winning side. We already saw this with people leaving amarr in droves and no one leaving minmatar. Giving lp for defensive plexing will just exacerbate this a hundred fold. Eidt: at least now even with very low numbers amarr has a chance of a tier 5 cashout. fifty percent of the systems are over fifty percent contested. Add lp for defensive plexing, forget about it and pile on the winning side. Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815

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