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Cergorach
Amarr The Helix Foundation
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Posted - 2011.01.28 23:12:00 -
[1]
I've parked around 10 characters on the same 5-6 planets (low-low-sec), pre 1.1.0 Incursion patch there was some depletion going on (23hr cycles), but that took weeks and weeks. Now it seems that depletion happens much faster, I'm running 17.5 hr cycles and it seems that after x amount of cycles there are 'holes' in the scanner visuals, you move your heads to other locations that are more profitable. But it seems that the overall 'quality' of the planet is going down far faster (we're now 10 days into the new PI), there seem to be less hot spots and those that are there seem to be less 'intense'. When I look at the scanner at the highest setting, the planet seems noticeably darker then it was 10 days ago.
I am certainly not the only one on the planet, but I can safely assume that a decent part of the fellow PIers on the planet are not extracting the same resource as I am. It could be the rush of folks trying out the new PI before they move on when the newness of the new PI has worn off, but I suspect that the depletion rates have gone up and the regeneration rates have gone down. I seriously suspect that in a few weeks there'll be seriously 'dead' planets. Not a complaint to CCP, because if I'm suffering from this, I'm certain others are suffering equally ;-)
I'm curious if others are noticing the same thing and if not, are there many other PIers on your planet. Might mean that I'll have to look into diversifying into other systems...
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Clown Pron
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Posted - 2011.01.28 23:26:00 -
[2]
Out last them?
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tpwh21
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Posted - 2011.01.28 23:58:00 -
[3]
er yes. read the threads. depletion is a big problem... how you deal with it is the challenge
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Funesta
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Posted - 2011.01.29 00:02:00 -
[4]
(1) There was no real depletion before the PI overhaul.
(2) There is depletion now. However, it is entirely dependent on your own actions. Other player's facilities do NOT deplete your resources. There's a dev statement to that effect.
(3) If you feel the things you are extracting are depleted to the point where they are not worth your while, then EXTRACT SOMETHING ELSE. The ECU is not bound to one resource. If X is less profitable to extract than Y, it is illogical to continue extracting X.
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Breaker77
Gallente Reclamation Industries
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Posted - 2011.01.29 00:31:00 -
[5]
Edited by: Breaker77 on 29/01/2011 00:32:58
Originally by: Funesta
(3) If you feel the things you are extracting are depleted to the point where they are not worth your while, then EXTRACT SOMETHING ELSE. The ECU is not bound to one resource. If X is less profitable to extract than Y, it is illogical to continue extracting X.
Why yes, you can use Autotrophs to build robotics!! Idiot.
People extract certain items for a reason.
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Elder Man
Gallente The Scope
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Posted - 2011.01.29 01:07:00 -
[6]
There is several issues. The one that bothers me the most is the depletion rate is so high.
Reaching across the planet doesn't cut it very well, as it too adds to the problem. Father away, less extractors. This may be the only option that's viable however. ( depending if you can find a place to move too within reason. )
It doesn't do much good to move to another depleted planet. Moving your entire operation to another reasonable spot ever week is expensive and total BS. There's supposed to be "new hot" spots, but.............If there is any I'm not impressed.
Elder Man |
Palpatine III
Amarr
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Posted - 2011.01.29 01:21:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Breaker77 Edited by: Breaker77 on 29/01/2011 00:32:58
Originally by: Funesta
(3) If you feel the things you are extracting are depleted to the point where they are not worth your while, then EXTRACT SOMETHING ELSE. The ECU is not bound to one resource. If X is less profitable to extract than Y, it is illogical to continue extracting X.
Why yes, you can use Autotrophs to build robotics!! Idiot.
People extract certain items for a reason.
Ahhh.. that made me LOL. Love it!
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Borgholio
Minmatar Quantum Industries Prime Orbital Systems
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Posted - 2011.01.29 01:25:00 -
[8]
I prefer to use the 2 week cycle on my extractors. It provides enough material to keep two basic factories running and with a 4 hour cycle, the planet frequently regenerates FASTER than it can be depleted. The only downside is that since the haul every 4 hours is frakking huge, I need to upgrade my links sometimes more than once. ----------------------------------- You will be assimilated...bunghole! |
Jacqueline Coeur
Gallente
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Posted - 2011.01.29 06:04:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Funesta (2) There is depletion now. However, it is entirely dependent on your own actions. Other player's facilities do NOT deplete your resources. There's a dev statement to that effect.
Wrong.
Dev statements (and the DevBlog too) say exactly the opposite.
Other players extractors do not interfere with your extractors directly but they do it indirectly by depleting your resources.
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Onibrak
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Posted - 2011.01.29 06:40:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Funesta (1) There was no real depletion before the PI overhaul.
(2) There is depletion now. However, it is entirely dependent on your own actions. Other player's facilities do NOT deplete your resources. There's a dev statement to that effect.
(3) If you feel the things you are extracting are depleted to the point where they are not worth your while, then EXTRACT SOMETHING ELSE. The ECU is not bound to one resource. If X is less profitable to extract than Y, it is illogical to continue extracting X.
I produce POS fuels because my alliance needs POS fuels. I'm not in PI for the money, I make more in 90 minutes of ratting out in our 0.0 than I do from a day of PI with four extract planets and one factory per character. I do PI because we need the materials, and depletion is affecting our ability to continue operations which require their fuel. We're going to have to start importing fuel soon because the local markets for our alliance (and we're huge) can't bear the current supply we're able to produce.
I'm not about to make another goddamn alt to plex just to spend a little more time per day on PI, or wait to train up another alt. I've got three, I don't need four, I don't want to have to deal with another PI character, but that's in effect what this change is trying to force. The devs stated they wanted to keep production the same and change the interface, that's not what they've done.
The same goes for p2 and p3 production. The point of those planets wasn't to have an excel spreadsheet of income and earnings and make bank, it was to set up alts which reliably produced useable amounts of needed commodities so we could do other stuff with it. I'm not sitting back stroking my chin and worrying about my profit margins, I'm sitting back wondering if I'm going to have to start working with our PI people to figure out our production capacity so we can start importing **** from empire to make up the slack.
More time and micromanagement of PI is fine. Forcing us to freighter **** from other markets which produce less per character anyway because it's empire is not.
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Palpatine III
Amarr
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Posted - 2011.01.29 07:24:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Borgholio I prefer to use the 2 week cycle on my extractors. It provides enough material to keep two basic factories running and with a 4 hour cycle, the planet frequently regenerates FASTER than it can be depleted. The only downside is that since the haul every 4 hours is frakking huge, I need to upgrade my links sometimes more than once.
2 basic processors? Come back and post when you are doing PI seriously..
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Nikki ThePink
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Posted - 2011.01.29 08:59:00 -
[12]
I was doing 3 x 5 hour cycles a day pre patch and now im doign 1 x 23 hour cycle a day which is less of a poundign on teh planet and after 1 day my white spot is orange, 2 days its yellow 3 days its green.
I am in 0.0 and i am the only one using these planets so there is no others depleting them.
The new depletion time is a big problem and it would be nice if CCP would post at least a statement abotu if they intended to kill PI to stop some kind of macros or if they ****ed up on the maths somewehre and are working out a fix for this.
Hot spots depleing in a day is plain stupid and havign to move is stupid. comon lets get real ive just travelled to a planet and found gold, hell im gonna set up a mining operation to get me some gurt gold chunks, (24 hours later) oh no ma! wheres all that lush gold gone?
Moral of the story even if bases on real life mines, they dont deplete in a day they are setup for years and just keep digging deeper lol, they dont move the mien every day.
Before the flames coem i know this aint RL lol but in comparision to any reasoning to do it this way it makes no sense in game or in RL terms.
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Fulbert
Gallente
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Posted - 2011.01.29 11:10:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Breaker77
Why yes, you can use Autotrophs to build robotics!! Idiot.
People extract certain items for a reason.
extracting and building P3s on the same planet is no more the win tactic If you didn't get that, you're the idiot. -------------------------------- Fulbert. Miner - Industrialist |
Mr Cocojambo
Minmatar
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Posted - 2011.01.29 11:20:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Fulbert
Originally by: Breaker77
Why yes, you can use Autotrophs to build robotics!! Idiot.
People extract certain items for a reason.
extracting and building P3s on the same planet is no more the win tactic If you didn't get that, you're the idiot.
I am sure if you read what Breaker wrote just ONE MORE TIME, you will find that it is YOU that now became the idiot
You see (if u still dont see it), Breaker never mentioned making a p3 on a single planet.. he said that extracting anything else that Toxic, Precious, Reactive or Chiral is kinda useless if you are making Robotics..
Ahh.... how i love to spoon-feed numbnuts
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Fulbert
Gallente
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Posted - 2011.01.29 11:43:00 -
[15]
No more resource on a planet? Buy it and pay it with others P0 or P1 you extract Exraction and manufacturing are now two separate things, that's my point. The new PI system is designed to make us extract and build on separate planets... -------------------------------- Fulbert. Miner - Industrialist |
Kasugano
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Posted - 2011.01.29 12:44:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Breaker77 Edited by: Breaker77 on 29/01/2011 00:32:58
Originally by: Funesta
(3) If you feel the things you are extracting are depleted to the point where they are not worth your while, then EXTRACT SOMETHING ELSE. The ECU is not bound to one resource. If X is less profitable to extract than Y, it is illogical to continue extracting X.
Why yes, you can use Autotrophs to build robotics!! Idiot.
People extract certain items for a reason.
Extract autotrophs, then sell it, use that money to buy noble metals to make your robotics. pretty simple really, unless your an idiot and didn't know you can buy and sell on the market.
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Breaker77
Gallente Reclamation Industries
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Posted - 2011.01.29 13:50:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Kasugano
Extract autotrophs, then sell it, use that money to buy noble metals to make your robotics. pretty simple really, unless your an idiot and didn't know you can buy and sell on the market.
Thats an excellent strategy when the nearest station is 30 jumps one way.
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Kasugano
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Posted - 2011.01.29 13:57:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Breaker77
Originally by: Kasugano
Extract autotrophs, then sell it, use that money to buy noble metals to make your robotics. pretty simple really, unless your an idiot and didn't know you can buy and sell on the market.
Thats an excellent strategy when the nearest station is 30 jumps one way.
There is someone near by you can trade with. Your not all by your self in the middle of null sec with a pos. You can find someone to trade with. Someone in your corp or alliance will need the resources you extract.
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Shakon
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Posted - 2011.01.29 17:58:00 -
[19]
Trade? Did he/she really say trade? hehehehe Damn thats funny.
Have you been to 0.0?
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Steve Thomas
Minmatar
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Posted - 2011.01.29 20:17:00 -
[20]
Obviously not.
.end of line.
----
If you think your too paranoid to play EvE...
Then you clearly are not paranoid enough to play EvE
(Alt list) Rico Lobo |
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Borgholio
Minmatar Quantum Industries Prime Orbital Systems
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Posted - 2011.01.30 06:20:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Palpatine III
Originally by: Borgholio I prefer to use the 2 week cycle on my extractors. It provides enough material to keep two basic factories running and with a 4 hour cycle, the planet frequently regenerates FASTER than it can be depleted. The only downside is that since the haul every 4 hours is frakking huge, I need to upgrade my links sometimes more than once.
2 basic processors? Come back and post when you are doing PI seriously..
If by "seriously" you mean "checking in on my colonies every half hour" then I'd rather not take it seriously. I like to spend my time enjoying other aspects of the game, thank you very much. ----------------------------------- You will be assimilated...bunghole! |
Sokrates Zosimus
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Posted - 2011.01.30 08:14:00 -
[22]
I'm a carebear but even i want to gank him a couple times, and in high sec. Really, it's worth the visit from concord. God...
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Mael Sechnaill
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Posted - 2011.01.30 08:20:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Kasugano
Extract autotrophs, then sell it, use that money to buy noble metals to make your robotics. pretty simple really, unless your an idiot and didn't know you can buy and sell on the market.
Because I have nothing else to do in my EVE life than babysitting some dots on some planets. Come on. Now the only question for me (theoretical, that is) : does PI actually worth that kind of dedication as a gameplay element ? Is the overall financial gain if done "right", comparable to let's say mining, or missioning ? Because if it isn't than any extra micro management is just a time sink. Now, we know MMO's are basically timesinks. But if I spend the time, at least I should be enjoying it. Apparently, there are some folks as you who enjoy this micro managment aspect of PI, and hauling large quantities of P0 across planets. But I doubt it's really productive. . |
Sokrates Zosimus
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Posted - 2011.01.30 08:31:00 -
[24]
Bingo!
It's not. I can run missions in high sec and fuel a POS with ease just buying it off the market. It isnt worth the time i spend. It's not even profitable for me. So it's only use is a suppliment and it's getting worse as time goes on because resources are depleting. Now, scale that up to alliance size and 100's of POS's and industry and you have a real PI problem. But ok, lets all just make Carbon Compounds and sell that to buy our POS fuels. O right, we get what we can make, and we cant make enough.
It should be a sign there is a problem when anyone has 10 alts for PI and still complains there isnt enough coming out of the PI system. I personally havent got the time for 10 alts, that seems a little nutty to me in itself.
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Cergorach
Amarr The Helix Foundation
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Posted - 2011.01.31 11:03:00 -
[25]
In the EVE industry you do what is most profitable, and that is/was PI (if done efficiently). Extracting something else sounds like a good idea, but if it's less profitable...
My concern isn't so much for my own production, less supply, more demand generally means higher prices. So I'm not seeing a serious hit to my income. It's the possibility of actual 'dead' planets, so depleted that there's not coming anything useful, that might seriously affect folks that are in 0.0.
Of course I¦m not advocating moving the entire operation to a new solar system every week, but it might be useful to split the operation into two or three groups in different solar systems. It just might result in higher yields and not greatly affect the logistics of the operation.
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Sully Kajahazuum
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Posted - 2011.01.31 11:51:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Onibrak
Originally by: Funesta (1) There was no real depletion before the PI overhaul.
(2) There is depletion now. However, it is entirely dependent on your own actions. Other player's facilities do NOT deplete your resources. There's a dev statement to that effect.
(3) If you feel the things you are extracting are depleted to the point where they are not worth your while, then EXTRACT SOMETHING ELSE. The ECU is not bound to one resource. If X is less profitable to extract than Y, it is illogical to continue extracting X.
I produce POS fuels because my alliance needs POS fuels. I'm not in PI for the money, I make more in 90 minutes of ratting out in our 0.0 than I do from a day of PI with four extract planets and one factory per character. I do PI because we need the materials, and depletion is affecting our ability to continue operations which require their fuel. We're going to have to start importing fuel soon because the local markets for our alliance (and we're huge) can't bear the current supply we're able to produce.
I'm not about to make another goddamn alt to plex just to spend a little more time per day on PI, or wait to train up another alt. I've got three, I don't need four, I don't want to have to deal with another PI character, but that's in effect what this change is trying to force. The devs stated they wanted to keep production the same and change the interface, that's not what they've done.
The same goes for p2 and p3 production. The point of those planets wasn't to have an excel spreadsheet of income and earnings and make bank, it was to set up alts which reliably produced useable amounts of needed commodities so we could do other stuff with it. I'm not sitting back stroking my chin and worrying about my profit margins, I'm sitting back wondering if I'm going to have to start working with our PI people to figure out our production capacity so we can start importing **** from empire to make up the slack.
More time and micromanagement of PI is fine. Forcing us to freighter **** from other markets which produce less per character anyway because it's empire is not.
You basically summed up my position, except I'm not in some huge ass alliance that controls massive amounts of space but am living in a WH. Lucky for me, I made sure to stockpile ****-tons of PI products when PI was still productive, so my situation isn't too bad. But having said that, planetary depletion poses a much more significant issue for me because I can't simply go to the next system in line for new planets, and hauling a freighter worth of fuel into a WH is far more tedious then bringing one out to null sec (Yes, even deep null sec would be easier then getting it into a WH).
For all the ****ing trolls, isk is not the issue being discussed here: don't tell me some gay ass **** about going to Jita and selling autotrophs for enriched uranium, because I make more in a few hours doing sites then I do in a month of PI using 2 chars on extremely high quality planets. PI for me has never been about making isk, nor will it be. It's about me not wanting to go through the enormous pain in the ass of hauling PI goods into the WH as well as ice products for my pos.
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Greg Huff
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Posted - 2011.01.31 12:11:00 -
[27]
I live in a C1 (with 1 large Amarr tower) and make all PI pos fuel except robotics - which I have an alt in high-sec taking care of that. I'm not having trouble making enough PI for what I need. My overstock is another story, but I haven't had the time to dedicate to really tuning my setups.
Ice fuels is a matter of planning a few hours to run an IttyV or 2 out for a "few" trips.
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Pohbis
Neo T.E.C.H.
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Posted - 2011.01.31 13:47:00 -
[28]
Originally by: Breaker77
Originally by: Kasugano
Extract autotrophs, then sell it, use that money to buy noble metals to make your robotics. pretty simple really, unless your an idiot and didn't know you can buy and sell on the market.
Thats an excellent strategy when the nearest station is 30 jumps one way.
ITT: People complaining that industry in EVE involves logistics.
By all means, if the mechanics are bugged, like the routing was, get CCP to fix it... but don't complain when CCP changes a click-fest into something that actually requires using your brain instead.
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Rene Winter
Militant Mermen LEGIO ASTARTES ARCANUM
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Posted - 2011.01.31 17:30:00 -
[29]
Originally by: Pohbis
Originally by: Breaker77
Originally by: Kasugano
Extract autotrophs, then sell it, use that money to buy noble metals to make your robotics. pretty simple really, unless your an idiot and didn't know you can buy and sell on the market.
Thats an excellent strategy when the nearest station is 30 jumps one way.
ITT: People complaining that industry in EVE involves logistics.
By all means, if the mechanics are bugged, like the routing was, get CCP to fix it... but don't complain when CCP changes a click-fest into something that actually requires using your brain instead.
We don't care if it's a clickfest or brainpower. What the 0.0 population cares about is POS fuels . . we want an X hours of effort = Z hours of POS fuels. And right now we don't really have a choice about doing PI as we all know if everybody in 0.0 stopped producing, fuel costs would go up to insane levels and probably just not meet demand. Mostly it's about fun.
For me something is very wrong when my "big" worry about a POS is how it will be fueled and the cost when my worry should be the 100 guys with Space Lazerz wanting to blow it all to hell for kicks.
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Vincent Athena
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Posted - 2011.01.31 17:50:00 -
[30]
I run 5 planets in high sec and 5 in W-space (WS). All planets but one make P2 items on a single planet. (The oddball makes P1). The WS planets do 3 strings (one string being 2 basic and one advanced processors) and run 3 day cycles. The high sec planets have 2 strings, but generally get sufficient P0 for 1.5 or so strings of product.
The 3 day cycles seem to result in much slower depletion than 1 day cycles. So one solution: dont be so greedy. 10 planets on 3 day cycles is about the same work as 5 planets on 1 day cycles (including the hauling), will make more stuff, and will reduce the depletion issue. Also, look at how much you get on the longer cycles; the nerf to total production you are use to seeing on those long cycles is not as bad at it was.
That said, CCP said they were kicking depletion into high gear. I think the gear is a little to high. CCP: please dial it down a notch?
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